327 réponses à ce sujet

[Masha Potato]

i'm so ready to play a dalish blood mage inquisitor, roast other blood mages and laugh obnoxiously at how grotesque the whole thing is

[Renmiri1]

Ukki wrote...

Thats a deal breaker for me, I will not be forced to play a religious zealot.

QFT


I can see myself accepting Cassandra, Leliana and Cullen in my team but I can't see myself enjoying a game where I have to side with oppressing mages.

[drak4806.2]

I actually thought of a concept for the Inquisition could be like in another thread.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/14139376/1#14140627

Some of you might recognize a few of the ideas:whistle:

Modifié par drak4806.2, 18 septembre 2012 - 07:31 .

[PsychoBlonde]

 Mage Inquisitor.  Misitor.

But, seriously, I don't see any problems with this.  The Templars are in rebellion as much as the mages are, and the Inquisitor is going to more need qualities like "are you a mighty badass capable of getting stuff done?".  Mages have that quality in spades.  Shooting lightning from their eyes and fireballs from their arse is not a disqualifying factor.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 18 septembre 2012 - 07:33 .

[berelinde]

LolaLei wrote...

Berelinde: I know we've discussed it before in length, but at the moment it's too early to worry about what the Inquisitors job entails. Not to mention that we have no idea how or why our protagonist will end up involved with the Inquistion.

For example, due to a series of unfortunate events he/she could be mistaken for the new Inquisitor. Regardless of the circumstances in which the protagonist becomes involved in this new organisation, I'm sure the DA team wouldn't force us to run around needlessly slaughtering mages (unless we wanted to). Hell, Shepard was forced to work with Cerberus in ME2, but you could still screw them over by sending info to the Alliance and then tell The Illusive Man to go shove it up his arse.

And you never know, we might get the option to release sensitive Chantry secrets to the whole of Thedas, surely that in itself is incentive enough for you to play DA3?

I would rather let knowledge of the game convince me to buy it than speculations from people who don't know any more about it than I do. This means official word of some kind and probably a demo.

You're right. We have already talked about it at length, and I agreed that a vocally unwilling conscript would be acceptable, although I would still grumble a bit over railroading and a lack of player agency. I think I agreed in this very thread that a vocally unwilling conscript would be OK, as long as we had the chance at freewill first.

This is a BioWare game. Ever since BG2 and the choice between Bodhi and the Shadow Theives, BioWare has taken great pleasure in making the protagonist work for an organization they might otherwise prefer to avoid. It's a "feature" built into every game, and it isn't going to go away any time soon. In previous games, we had the opportunity to establish our PC's personality before enlisting in the evil empire, though. I would be satisfied with a lengthy prologue where we had a chance to develop the freedom-loving, religion-rejecting aspects of our protagonist's personality before being recruited. To some, the difference between joining voluntarily before the game begins and being forced into it by circumstance after a prologue is trivial, but it's important to me. In the former situation, I would be playing somebody else's character from the outset. I don't need to waste money on that. In the latter, there is a fair amount of railroading, as there is in every video game, but the protagonist at least begins life as the player's creation.

This isn't condemnation, nor is it jumping to wild conclusions. It is a discussion about what would make an otherwise unacceptable idea more palatable. It's important to have these discussions as early as possible because frankly, as unpleasant as they are, they are far more productive than a post-release rant and a boatload of "I told you so"s when the game doesn't do as well as it could have done.

And Wulfram is right. Words do have meaning. The word "Inquisition" was not chosen because it has a high Scrabble score, nor was it selected because it makes people think of kittens and rainbows.

We have Codex entries, the last few paragraphs of the official DA2 guide, and a UK interview with David Gaider that all point to the historical Inquisition as inspiration for the new incarnation. We have nothing to suggest a lack of religious or political involvement but a bit of player speculation based on personal desires rather than canon facts. Yes, there is certainly time to clarify the matter, and I really do hope that this entire discussion is proven to be irrelevant, but based on what we have seen (Codex entries, the game guide, and an interview), concerns about religious and political neutrality are entirly justified.

[x12796]

OP you make great points. I often wondered how say a mage Hawke could walk around the chantry with impunity and the characters have no different reaction to you than a warrior Hawke. I think NPCs should behave different to a human or elf or mage differently than others and would like Bioware to somehow work that in.

[upsettingshorts]

berelinde wrote...

I would rather let knowledge of the game convince me to buy it than speculations from people who don't know any more about it than I do.

"I can speculate but don't tell me I'm just speculating because then you're speculating."

berelinde wrote...

And Wulfram is right. Words do have meaning. The word "Inquisition" was not chosen because it has a high Scrabble score, nor was it selected because it makes people think of kittens and rainbows.

Not as right as either of you seem to think.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 septembre 2012 - 07:54 .

[RVNX]

well, I'm actually looking forward to playing as a Mage (Head) Inquisitor, if that is indeed the role you play.

I can see it where you were plucked from the circle as a child, due to your demonstrable talents, and raised and trained in the order ever since. rising up the ranks until you become Head. while many are impressed by your skills, there are many who are distrustful and suspicious due to you being a Mage.

and, I'm sure there will be great leeway as to your character's views on the Mage/Templar war.  You could be a mage who thinks apostates are truly evil and must be hunted down.  Or, you could be more open-minded, seeing both sides of the war.  Or, you could be sympathetic towards Mages, even though many around you are anti-mage.

being the Head of the Inquisition would also give a great excuse for your mage to have proper martial/combat training. meaning you won't be restricted to just a staff and spells. you have access to the other weapon trees and perhaps a combat-oriented mage specialization.

Modifié par RVNX, 18 septembre 2012 - 07:57 .

[LolaLei]

Avejajed wrote...

Mages need to die. Sign me up.

Marry me! 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Avejajed wrote...

Mages need to die. Sign me up.

I suggest you have a taste of my family's mace first!

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

And Wulfram is right. Words do have meaning. The word "Inquisition" was not chosen because it has a high Scrabble score, nor was it selected because it makes people think of kittens and rainbows.

It doesn't necessarily mean we'll be railroaded into brown nosing the Chantry either. It's just a name.

[LolaLei]

Avejajed wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

Mages need to die. Sign me up.

Marry me! 

Okay, but don't tell Adam.

Deal, I'll wear the tux!

[Izana]

Despite the fact that the title is linked to the leak, I don't think that the PC of the game will be at the heart of the Inquisition.

I mean, the organization existed in the past with the purpose to hunt heretics. In the real world, an Inquisition is a group of heretic hunters. It's not like being a part of Grey Wardens, where you have to save the world, but they are not picky on how you do it. To me, being a part of the Inquisition limits freedom, choice and views of the PC, especially if you want to be a pro-mage in that game.

My guess is that now the Seekers and the Templars are not under chantry control anymore, they might call themselves the Inquisition once again.

[Calians]

berelinde wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Trivializing other people's concerns.

I can do it, too.

The purpose of my participation in this discussion was to state reservations I have about the game. I have done so, and I hope BioWare listens. If they don't, it's their loss. They have other fans.

Point is not everyone is going to get everything that they have asked for. This is a problem I forsaw of players choices being allowed. I don't mind it but then people get subsequently greedy about this and that etc etc. IT DRIVES ME MAD. So der I gave my point of view on this:ph34r:

Side-Note: Although I was a mage in DA2 I sided with the temps because of well..There needs to be order and in the tevinter Fenris even said (don't quote me on this it's been awhile) that even their templars had to step in once awhile because of mages getting out of hand. Not to mention how much abuse happens regarding magic users. Also when you crack down on the mages in DA2 you see most of em had a dark "side" connection to the spirits. But I still chose to save those who surrendered peacefully and had no connection to the dark side.

Modifié par Calians, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:06 .

[Wulfram]

@upsettingshorts I'm not saying that Bioware will absolutely be bound by the connotations the word carries in modern english, but they are certainly aware of them and know what impression they are creating. Thus these connotations are very relevant, even if ultimately the intent is to subvert them.

edit:  And of course the in universe reference we've got about them refers to them having a "reign of terror", so the connotations exist in character too.

Modifié par Wulfram, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:11 .

[Calians]

So in the end I dont think you're going to be a Tyrant Inquisitor giving out sweet ironfisted justice to those dirty mages.

Modifié par Calians, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:14 .

[brushyourteeth]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

Mages need to die. Sign me up.

I suggest you have a taste of my family's mace first!

+10 for DA:O deshyr's assembly reference, whether accidental or intentional! 

[Ausstig]

You are aware that the Inquisition behaved more like a modern court then anything else at the time?

They also required evidence other then hearsay and created the idea of innocent until proven guilty.

So maybe rather then taking pop culture as fact you could do research.

[berelinde]

Ausstig wrote...

You are aware that the Inquisition behaved more like a modern court then anything else at the time?

They also required evidence other then hearsay and created the idea of innocent until proven guilty.

So maybe rather then taking pop culture as fact you could do research.

Are we talking about the Earth historical Inquisition or the Thedosian one?

If we're talking about the Earth one, it isn't really relevant, but if it was, we would also have to cosider that "damnable evidence" might consist of as little as the inability to recite the Lord's Prayer in Latin, a feat well beyond your average terrified shopkeeper who might not actually know Latin in the first place. One of the most troubling things about the Earth Inquisition was that it was really up to each Inquisitor how aggressively they would pursue "the truth." Legal process does not thrive where individuals have that much personal discretion over enforcement.

If we're talking about the Thedosian Inquisition, it was described in the DA2 Codex as a "reign of terror". Anybody who has ever had to spend the day in traffic court will tell you that it's no picnic, but I doubt anybody dribbled hot pitch on you to get you to confess that you were doing 60mph in a 45mph zone.

Modifié par berelinde, 18 septembre 2012 - 10:24 .

[brushyourteeth]

Ausstig wrote...

You are aware that the Inquisition behaved more like a modern court then anything else at the time?

They also required evidence other then hearsay and created the idea of innocent until proven guilty.

So maybe rather then taking pop culture as fact you could do research.

You could have a great point (I'll be honest and say I don't know much about any real-life Inquisitions), but I think the most important thing to remember is that Dragon Age Inquisition does not equal real-life Inquisition.

Demons don't mean the same thing in DA as they do in real life. Apostacy doesn't either. Let's just not get carried away with intepreting the rhetoric in such a way that it leads us to the worst case scenarios.

Saying "hey Bioware! Just want to let you know I'd rather not have X, Y, or Z in the game. Thanks for reading!" is one thing. Taking the almost zero information we have and getting upset by it is something completely different. It's not fair to the devs, who haven't been able to *show* us anything yet, and it's just not healthy. Like Gamer's Munchausen's.

I think we sometimes forget that people like David Gaider and Mike Laidlaw actually love the world of Dragon Age even more than we do. And they revel in the gray areas - it's the meat and potatoes of their storytelling. They're not going to suddenly force us to take one side. It's inconsistent with everything they've shown us in the past, which makes it pretty unfair for us to start making assumptions to the contrary this late in the series and this early in the next game's development.

Again, it's one thing to say "Please let's not have to be devoutly Andrastian!" and another to list five reasons why we obviously will be. That's silly - the game was announced yesterday.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 18 septembre 2012 - 10:26 .

[LolaLei]

brushyourteeth wrote...

You could have a great point (I'll be honest and say I don't know much about any real-life Inquisitions), but I think the most important thing to remember is that Dragon Age Inquisition does not equal real-life Inquisition.

Demons don't mean the same thing in DA as they do in real life. Apostacy doesn't either. Let's just not get carried away with intepreting the rhetoric in such a way that it leads us to the worst case scenarios.

Saying "hey Bioware! Just want to let you know I'd rather not have X, Y, or Z in the game. Thanks for reading!" is one thing. Taking the almost zero information we have and getting upset by it is something completely different. It's not fair to the devs, who haven't been able to *show* us anything yet, and it's just not healthy. Like Gamer's Munchausen's.

I think we sometimes forget that people like David Gaider and Mike Laidlaw actually love the world of Dragon Age even more than we do. And they revel in the gray areas - it's the meat and potatoes of their storytelling. They're not going to suddenly force us to take one side. It's inconsistent with everything they've shown us in the past, which makes it pretty unfair for us to start making assumptions to the contrary this late in the series and this early in the next game's development.

Again, it's one thing to say "Please let's not have to be devoutly Andrastian!" and another to list five reasons why we obviously will be. That's silly - the game was announced yesterday.

THIS! ^^^

[Sable Rhapsody]

Renmiri1 wrote...
I can see myself accepting Cassandra, Leliana and Cullen in my team but I can't see myself enjoying a game where I have to side with oppressing mages.

How about "getting mages and templars to stop murdering everyone?"  Because IMO that's probably what the Inquisition is going to be like.  Whether you wanna gun for the mages or the templars or even both will probably be up to you, since the choice to side with mage or templar was offered in both DA:O or DA2.  But one way or another, you gotta shut the war down.

[LolaLei]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...
I can see myself accepting Cassandra, Leliana and Cullen in my team but I can't see myself enjoying a game where I have to side with oppressing mages.

How about "getting mages and templars to stop murdering everyone?"  Because IMO that's probably what the Inquisition is going to be like.  Whether you wanna gun for the mages or the templars or even both will probably be up to you, since the choice to side with mage or templar was offered in both DA:O or DA2.  But one way or another, you gotta shut the war down.

That's what I figured we'd need to do.