176 réponses à ce sujet

[Direwolf0294]

I'm okay with CE exclusive content as long as it's nothing major like a vital companion character. Javik was going way too far, we don't need another repeat of that.

I say no to preorder exclusives and store exclusives. I hate both of those things with a passion. Preorder exclusives are utterly stupid. Why should someone miss out on items just because they didn't preorder the game? They still bought it, didn't they? Surely that's what really matters. I loath retailer specific content. It's a massive screw you to customers. Instead of customers picking the store to purchase the game from based on pricing, location or something else (like knowing people who work at a certain store, disapproving of the practices of other stores etc) you're now asking them to make that choice based on whether or not they get certain content in the game.

[Allan Schumacher]

So if there was some package DLC that allowed all the preorder items for a small cost would that make things better?

Just spitballing ideas since I suspect just giving them away might not be something allowed depending on the arrangement with the retailer and a host of other things I certainly have no visibility into.

[jkflipflopDAO]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

So if there was some package DLC that allowed all the preorder items for a small cost would that make things better?

Just spitballing ideas since I suspect just giving them away might not be something allowed depending on the arrangement with the retailer and a host of other things I certainly have no visibility into.

Personally, the people that want those things I would label as "Collectors". It would make sense to have that stuff come with the "Collector's Edition" of the game, no? If you insist on milking your fanbase, then yes, a 5 or 10 dollar DLC pack would do, but I'd be badmouthing your children as I click the "buy" button.

[FlamingBoy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

shale really pushed  the line of day one dlc in my opinion despite the fact he came with every new copy, the character was just to essential to the plot, especially te ozzamar arc, its was if it was cut out of the game and "sold" later

I thought the zaeed dlc was good justification to sell with new copies though

Shale was cut out of the game, the same way a lot of things get cut from the game.  THere was a time extension, however, when we ended up making console version.

The alternative to DLC would have, unfortunately, been no Shale at all :

and yet he was still essential to the plot despite being "cut"

Edit: that sounded insulting, was not my intention, I am just suggesting shale pushed the limit

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:18 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

FlamingBoy wrote...


and yet he was still essential to the plot despite being "cut"

I can't believe I'm about to take the opposing stance on this one, but Shale wasn't really essential in any shape to the story. She was well-written and integrated heavily into the story, sure, but she wasn't essential to the Warden and his fight against the darkspawn.

[ME_Fan]

scyphozoa wrote...

Just to give my feedback to this question. Yes. The example I have used over the years is from ME2 and Gamestop exclusive Blackstorm Projector. I love this gun for a multitude of reasons. It is one of the most fun and effective Heavy Weapons to use in ME2. But what is even more important to me are the aesthetics. In ME2, heavy weapons are mandatory to carry, you cannot unequip them. Therefore, the only cosmetic customization options we have are to change which HW we use. Frankly, I do not like the functionality or the design of any of the other HWs in ME2. When I have to look at the back of my Shepard for 30+ hours, I want to like what I'm looking at. The sleek black and red design of the Blackstorm Projector looked great on my sleek black N7 armor. 

Now, this item has never been released by Bioware. If you didn't get it from Gamestop, you are officially out of luck. There have been people buying and selling this item on ebay for upwards of 300 dollars. 

Frankly, every player should have the option to have all the fluff. I know having this 1 gun made each and every one of my  ME2 playthroughs a fraction of a percent better. And that is something that every player should have the opportunity to have. I say opportunity because I don't mean this content should be included in the base game, or given away for free, I do mean that at some point, this content should be available to the general public to buy or unlock. I am sure that even today, years after ME2, if Bioware sold the Blackstorm Projector as 2-3$ micro-DLC, there would be a number of long-time fans still going out of their way to buy the gun.

I absolutely agree with this 100%. I never got a chance to get Terminus/Blackstorm becasue I bought the game after release. What amazes me most though is that even after more than two years later it still hasn't been released, in any way, either just by itself, or in some Ultimate Edition bundle. The contract they made with Gamestop must have included a long exclusivity rights, that's for sure. What really made it annoying is that BioWare gave it to PS3 players for a month for free, when 360/PC still didn't have it. As a mass effect fan, even if they released it now for a price, I'd be annoyed that they were charging for it, but I would still buy it for completion, and because Terminus armor looks awesome.

This post was slightly off topic yes, but what I'm trying to say is no retailer exclusives, they're a pain in the neck.

Modifié par ME_Fan, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:27 .

[FlamingBoy]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...


and yet he was still essential to the plot despite being "cut"

I can't believe I'm about to take the opposing stance on this one, but Shale wasn't really essential in any shape to the story. She was well-written and integrated heavily into the story, sure, but she wasn't essential to the Warden and his fight against the darkspawn.

heavily integrated = essential

gives a perspective on the golems that we would otherwise would not have and therefore information that would helps make a decision, hence essential to that plot arc

[Direwolf0294]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

So if there was some package DLC that allowed all the preorder items for a small cost would that make things better?

Just spitballing ideas since I suspect just giving them away might not be something allowed depending on the arrangement with the retailer and a host of other things I certainly have no visibility into.

I might be okay with that, depending on how many items there are and what the price is. $5 at the most to unlock all preorder and retail exclusive DLC seems fair.

[Allan Schumacher]

heavily integrated = essential

gives a perspective on the golems that we would otherwise would not have and therefore information that would helps make a decision, hence essential to that plot arc

Essentially you're saying we should only release boring DLC though.

[jkflipflopDAO]

FlamingBoy wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...


and yet he was still essential to the plot despite being "cut"

I can't believe I'm about to take the opposing stance on this one, but Shale wasn't really essential in any shape to the story. She was well-written and integrated heavily into the story, sure, but she wasn't essential to the Warden and his fight against the darkspawn.

heavily integrated = essential

gives a perspective on the golems that we would otherwise would not have and therefore information that would helps make a decision, hence essential to that plot arc

Orly, then how come you can complete the entire game without ever meeting Shale? Being essential means the story can't happen without that character. Flemeth is essential. Morrigan is essential. Shale you don't even have to download.

I should clairfy that I'm totally with you in that Shale should have been in the game no matter what. Just like Javik should have been in ME3. . . but you've gone off on some side tangent that makes no sense. 

Modifié par jkflipflopDAO, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:39 .

[Allan Schumacher]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Personally, the people that want those things I would label as "Collectors". It would make sense to have that stuff come with the "Collector's Edition" of the game, no? If you insist on milking your fanbase, then yes, a 5 or 10 dollar DLC pack would do, but I'd be badmouthing your children as I click the "buy" button.

Well, I put forward a price because I assume that giving it away for free might not be easy.  Like I said, I'm just spitballing.

If I told you that to do this would result in less in game content in the shipped copy for everyone, would you reconsider?

What level of sacrifice would be made to ensure exclusive preorder DLCs no longer existed?

[henkez3]

The pre-order-now-and-get-these-DLCs-for-no-extra-cost-thing you did for DA2 was pretty good. ME3 was a bit of a mess however, and I still don't know what I'm missing for that game.

Lastly, I agree with everyone that retailer-specific DLC is absolutely horrible. Horribad, it's even terribad.

[JakePT]

I don't really have a problem with Day 1 DLC per se. In fact, some times it's awesome. What I HATE is retailer-exclusive DLC, especially if there's multiple forms of mutually exclusive content. It's nothing but a kick in the teeth to the consumer, just to appease retailers. I know retailers are important, for now, but please try and find a way that isn't so anti-consumer.

I also really dislike paid Day 1 DLC. I understand the development works, and how that content wouldn't exist otherwise etc. etc. but as much as I know about the process, I still feel that if it's out on Day 1, it should be part of the cost of the game. Charging extra is just nickle and diming, and it sucks.

As far as Day 1 DLC goes, Mass Effect 2 is still the gold standard for BioWare in my mind. Free Day 1 content for new copies (fair. in my mind) a short period of free extra content, and then some amazing paid DLC. Fair for the consumer, and from what I understand, quite successfull for you guys.

Modifié par JakePT, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:49 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Personally, the people that want those things I would label as "Collectors". It would make sense to have that stuff come with the "Collector's Edition" of the game, no? If you insist on milking your fanbase, then yes, a 5 or 10 dollar DLC pack would do, but I'd be badmouthing your children as I click the "buy" button.

Well, I put forward a price because I assume that giving it away for free might not be easy.  Like I said, I'm just spitballing.

If I told you that to do this would result in less in game content in the shipped copy for everyone, would you reconsider?

What level of sacrifice would be made to ensure exclusive preorder DLCs no longer existed?

Well I don't think we need to sacrifice. This could actually be a positive in that a CE would live up to it's name. Little plastic dragons are nice, but I'd much rather have in-game content that I can enjoy everytime I play the game. Retailers get their own pre-orders with the understanding that the CE will include all the bonuses from everyone. Basically the retail-specific thing only applies to the standard version of the game. If I'm going to shell out $70-80 bucks for the CE, I should get all that content. 

If you told me that to do this would result in less in-game content for everyone, then I would ask why that would possibly be. . . because that's exactly where we are now. There's tons of stuff floating around out there for my favorite games that I want and can never ever have. 

I don't understand what you're asking with that last question. I don't understand why any sacrifices need to be made for this. You have to stop accepting bribes for custom content I guess is the sacrifice.

[ScotGaymer]

FlamingBoy wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...


and yet he was still essential to the plot despite being "cut"

I can't believe I'm about to take the opposing stance on this one, but Shale wasn't really essential in any shape to the story. She was well-written and integrated heavily into the story, sure, but she wasn't essential to the Warden and his fight against the darkspawn.

heavily integrated = essential

gives a perspective on the golems that we would otherwise would not have and therefore information that would helps make a decision, hence essential to that plot arc

Are you really that obtuse?

Heavily and Well Integrated DOES NOT equal Essential DLC. It equals Well Done DLC.

Basically what you are demanding is Bioware give you everything up front at no cost to yourself, not do DLC at all, and or only release fluff DLC for pittance prices.

I am a poor person so I would never slag someone for being poor, and a tight fisted Scotsman; and I gotta say this is the cheapest thing I have ever seen.

Take Shale out. Does her absence have any effect on how the quest turns out? No. My first play thru I didn't take her with me to find Branka/Caridin; and on my second I did. And honestly from a writing and plot stand point there isn't much difference.
The only thing you discover is is that Shale used to be a female dwarf. Thats it. So not, not "essential".

Javik on the other hand is a completely different case - he really was/is story and plot essential. You learn story critical information in From Ashes that if left out leaves questions unanswered.

[Vinitchz]

A DLC pack including the pre-order items, just release a bit after the game is launched (1-2 months maybe) would solve that problem, collect all the bonus items from bioware games always gave me headache =/ (I still dont have the Staff of Parthalan, it sucks, I know, but I want it anyway =P)

[Allan Schumacher]

Well I don't think we need to sacrifice. This could actually be a positive in that a CE would live up to it's name. Little plastic dragons are nice, but I'd much rather have in-game content that I can enjoy everytime I play the game. Retailers get their own pre-orders with the understanding that the CE will include all the bonuses from everyone. Basically the retail-specific thing only applies to the standard version of the game. If I'm going to shell out $70-80 bucks for the CE, I should get all that content.

Could work and an interesting point. One I hadn't fully considered. Problem with not knowing all of the details unfortunately :\\

I don't understand what you're asking with that last question. I don't understand why any sacrifices need to be made for this. You have to stop accepting bribes for custom content I guess is the sacrifice.

My question I guess is more this, how much extra content (lets say time wise) built right into the core game makes an exclusive preorder contract acceptable? Lets say it got you 1 extra hour, 10 extra hours, 100 extra hours. Is there any situation where the funding gets put to additional content that would make you go "Eh, I'm okay with the preorder exclusives?"

Is it a level of transparency (that unfortunately I can't really give) that would make it better, or would you still rather just not have any sort of preorder exclusive.


EDIT: I guess basicaly: if we could take that and find a way to give everyone more, is it okay?

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:11 .

[Emzamination]

KDD-0063 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Op doesn't speak for me, I will be ordering the CE whether it be 60 or 100.I'm not about to let qualms of equality inconvenience me.

This is the worse kind of 'fan' I have ever seen.
Oh, because I am going to buy CE no matter what, you guys who buy the standard edition deserves less content, and totally deserves a ripoff.

What?

You're not getting ripped off.When you pay for less, you get less, big shocker I know.I didn't get to pre-order the me3 collectors edition because I was late finding out there was one, so I didn't get the cool n7 hoodie,robo dog or day 1 dlc even tho I really wanted it, instead I got the arsenal pack with my regular pre-order.Not once did I get on these forums and complain about getting less because I paid less so I understand why I got less. I just sucked it up and went on about my business.That's called maturity.

Modifié par Emzamination, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:16 .

[Xewaka]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...
Personally, the people that want those things I would label as "Collectors". It would make sense to have that stuff come with the "Collector's Edition" of the game, no? If you insist on milking your fanbase, then yes, a 5 or 10 dollar DLC pack would do, but I'd be badmouthing your children as I click the "buy" button.

How about, instead of buying and complaining of milking, you don't buy and avoid the milkening? Demand of the product -that is, buying it - creates the message "we want this" regardless of how much you complain about it.
There's a reason the only DLC I paid for is Fallout New Vegas' DLC, and the reason is that it is the only one that added enough content to make it worth buying in my perception (And then, only on a Steam sale).
If you keep buying "milking" (by your standards) DLC, they'll keep making it.

Modifié par Xewaka, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:19 .

[Allan Schumacher]

scyphozoa wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Essentially you're saying we should only release boring DLC though.

Definitely not this. While some might disagree about Shale, I haven't ever seen anyone say that Zaeed and his loyalty mission for revenge was remotely essential to the story or experience of ME2. And the same goes for Sebastian. He is a great character, but his arc of becoming clergy or prince aren't really relevant in DA2. If anything, this arc might be more meaningful in DA3 than it was in DA2.

To be honest though, I don't think even Javik was essential, but I do understand why tons of people thought he was. As I've said elsewhere, its all about the sweet spot, between having a character or content that is cool enough to want to buy, but not so pertinent to the main story or lore (as people felt Javik was). I think there is something a bit more common about Shale, Zaeed and Sebastian. Even with Shale as a golem and Sebastian as a prince, I think those still pale in comparison to the allure of a living Prothean within the ME universe. I would say this is partly because of how Protheans were designed to be a mystery throughout the trilogy. There was definitely more backstory and significance given to Protheans by ME3, than the other characters in their respective titles. 

I agree it's a sweet spot.  I thought Shale was fantastic, while I actually didn't like Zaeed at all.  Sebastian is somewhere in between along with Javik.  I would have liked more from Javik myself, and a lot more from Zaeed.  Whereas I think Shale's existence that was actually cut really helped make her contributions the best of the lot.

[nightscrawl]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

So if there was some package DLC that allowed all the preorder items for a small cost would that make things better?

In general, my stance on any special pre-release or special event DLC is as long as it's available sometime after the event is over (say 6 months or so) so that everyone has a chance to get them, whether that be as individual purchases or a single large package, that it would be nice.

There are some DA2 bonus items (Fadeshear, The Lion of Orlais, Amulet of Ashes, The Irons, The Ring of Whispers, and some others) that can no longer be obtained, even at the time they were released as most people would not have taken the time to place fake pre-orders with multiple vendors. I didn't even know about some of these, like The Antivan Garrote, which seems super nice and I might have made the effort to get.

As long as we're on the topic of DLC, I'll add that I much prefer the integrated DLC (Stone Prisoner, Warden's Keep, Return to Ostagar, Exiled Prince) rather than the separate DLC method. While I enjoyed being able to escape Kirkwall during Legacy and MotA, I thought the whole statue thing was kind of silly... sorry... The automatic quests that you get in DAO with a couple of the DLC seemed like a better method.

BUT, I did like that I could play those DLC inside of my DA2 play and so make extended use of the various items and such, so in the end it wasn't a huge deal.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:30 .

[SeanBahamut]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Here's the thing I really hate, is having a different bonus for gamestop, one for EB, one for Origin, one for Steam, one for Burger King, and so on.

How many times do you think I'm going to preorder your game? I'm sure as hell not going to order 12 copies of the game so I can get all the goodies. That means that there is content out there that I as a fan will NEVER get to enjoy because I can't order 63 copies of the game from different retailers before launch.

I'm STILL pissed off that I can't get Terminus Armor and the blackhole heavy weapon thing for ME2. (not that I really mind anymore since you destroyed the entire franchise).

So how about this. . . you still make all the little goodies for all the retail places, but then you have to include ALL of that stuff with the CE.

This this this this. Retailer exclusives are a big no-no from consumers. Completionists dont like having some form of DLC that means they cant get it without purchasing the actual entire game more than once.

P.S. ikflipflop how can you still be pissed and then claim, in the same sentence, that you dont care?