176 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

I couldn't care less about items. Getting too many DLC items tends to have a negative effect on the game anyway.

But I'm not going to pre-order or buy the game on release unless I can get the game + all day 1 DLC for less the £30. Paying release prices is a triumph of enthusiasm over good sense considering how rapidly the price falls, and I don't get enthusiastic over having a second rate version of the product.

[Cheylus]

I have to agree strongly with the OP.
In France, the communication behind pre-orders / exclusives / promotionnal items for DA2 was AWFUL and unclear.
The items in DA:O were at least interesting. In DA2, their icons are ugly and their stats made them useless very quickly.

[nightscrawl]

scyphozoa wrote...

Definitely not this. While some might disagree about Shale, I haven't ever seen anyone say that Zaeed and his loyalty mission for revenge was remotely essential to the story or experience of ME2. And the same goes for Sebastian. He is a great character, but his arc of becoming clergy or prince aren't really relevant in DA2. If anything, this arc might be more meaningful in DA3 than it was in DA2.

The most plot-relevant part about Sebastian's arc is the Act 3 quest, which doesn't have anything to do with him personally. To be honest, you could have done that entire section without him and it would have fit in with the whole game. The hook that comes with Sebastian is that Elthina trusts you because Sebastian trusts you, so she asks you for this favor. So if Sebastian wasn't around, I can see why Elthina might not have a reason to bring this to Hawke, particularly if you have been hostile to her in the past (as I've seen mentioned by some BSN users).

Modifié par nightscrawl, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:29 .

[Emzamination]

nightscrawl wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

So if there was some package DLC that allowed all the preorder items for a small cost would that make things better?

In general, my stance on any special pre-release or special event DLC is that as long as it's available sometime after the event is over (say 6 months or so) so that everyone has a chance to get them, whether that be as individual purchases or a single large package, I think that would be nice.

There are some DA2 bonus items (Fadeshear, The Lion of Orlais, Amulet of Ashes, The Irons, The Ring of Whispers, and some others) that can no longer be obtained, even at the time they were released as most people would not have taken the time to place fake pre-orders with multiple vendors. I didn't even know about some of these, like The Antivan Garrote, which seems super nice and I might have made the effort to get.

As long as we're on the topic of DLC, I'll add that I much prefer the integrated DLC (Stone Prisoner, Warden's Keep, Return to Ostagar, Exiled Prince) rather than the separate DLC method. While I enjoyed being able to escape Kirkwall during Legacy and MotA, I thought the whole statue thing was kind of silly... sorry... The automatic quests that you get in DAO with a couple of the DLC seemed like a better method.

BUT, I did like that I could play those DLC inside of my DA2 play and so make extended use of the various items and such, so in the end it wasn't a huge deal.

I agree with nightscrawl that every dlc item should be on the marketplace some time after release so I can get stuff I might of missed.

Side note: No one is missing out pertaining to the Da2 promotional content, I sale that junk in act 1 every playthrough.The dlc item packs offer a Better Variety and quality of items.

[nightscrawl]

Emzamination wrote...

Side note: No one is missing out pertaining to the Da2 promotional content, I sale that junk in act 1 every playthrough.The dlc item packs offer a Better Variety and quality of items.

The Staff of Parthalan is my favorite weapon in the entie game . Also, since something like The Antivan Garrote works off percentages (+2% crit chance, +4% crit dmg, immunity to flanking), it can last a long time, and the belt The Irons has +127 resistance for all spell schools, which seems like a great acquisition for anyone playing in Nightmare.

But to be honest, I do sell off The Lion of Orlais and Fadeshear, mainly because I don't play with Aveline very much. I also sell most of the item pack weapons (all but two or three are hideous, meat cleaver daggers FTL).

[Direwolf0294]

If this thread has taught me one thing, it's that Shale actually mattered to the main game. I did her mission to recruit her, did all her conversations and then just forgot about her. On some playthroughs I didn't even bother picking her up because I didn't like her character and she didn't feel like she impacted the main game at all. I'm shocked to learn she actually does.

Out of all of BioWare's DLC companions, I thought Javik was most vital to the story, followed by Sebastian. I really can't imagine playing ME3 without Javik, he just felt so vital to what was going on in the game.

[FlamingBoy]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...


and yet he was still essential to the plot despite being "cut"

I can't believe I'm about to take the opposing stance on this one, but Shale wasn't really essential in any shape to the story. She was well-written and integrated heavily into the story, sure, but she wasn't essential to the Warden and his fight against the darkspawn.

heavily integrated = essential

gives a perspective on the golems that we would otherwise would not have and therefore information that would helps make a decision, hence essential to that plot arc

Orly, then how come you can complete the entire game without ever meeting Shale? Being essential means the story can't happen without that character. Flemeth is essential. Morrigan is essential. Shale you don't even have to download.

I should clairfy that I'm totally with you in that Shale should have been in the game no matter what. Just like Javik should have been in ME3. . . but you've gone off on some side tangent that makes no sense. 

cut me a little slack, apparently debating with about 4 other people, one of whom likes the name calling<_<

[Plaintiff]

I think your suggestion is terrible. I like getting in-game content with my pre-orders. I want more value in my game, not ****ty knick-knacks that just take up space.

[FlamingBoy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

heavily integrated = essential

gives a perspective on the golems that we would otherwise would not have and therefore information that would helps make a decision, hence essential to that plot arc

Essentially you're saying we should only release boring DLC though.

Don't recall saying anything remotely like this

[nightscrawl]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

If this thread has taught me one thing, it's that Shale actually mattered to the main game. I did her mission to recruit her, did all her conversations and then just forgot about her. On some playthroughs I didn't even bother picking her up because I didn't like her character and she didn't feel like she impacted the main game at all. I'm shocked to learn she actually does.

Lol don't feel bad. I only found out about some stuff in DAO after looking through the wiki, which everyone really should do after playing through the game once or twice. The main reason is because I like to roll with the same party makeup most of the time, so I tend to miss things that might be NPC-specific like with Shale talking to Caridin.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:48 .

[FlamingBoy]

scyphozoa wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

heavily integrated = essential

gives a perspective on the golems that we would otherwise would not have and therefore information that would helps make a decision, hence essential to that plot arc

False. Here is the conversation with Caridin without Shale. And here is the conversation with Caridin with Shale in the party. You can learn all the main plot points in both circumstances. If anything, you learn more about Shale in this quest, than you do about the Dwarves, the Anvil or Caridin.

thanks for the extremely long videos, sure you could not find something that could condense it

What I was trying to say is that shale perspective of the upcoming ethical dilema is invaluble in making a decision, the bond you create with shale allows you to look at the climax of this arc from a different angle

also did you really have to start your post with "False" why not "I disagree" comes off as less hostile

[FlamingBoy]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...


and yet he was still essential to the plot despite being "cut"

I can't believe I'm about to take the opposing stance on this one, but Shale wasn't really essential in any shape to the story. She was well-written and integrated heavily into the story, sure, but she wasn't essential to the Warden and his fight against the darkspawn.

heavily integrated = essential

gives a perspective on the golems that we would otherwise would not have and therefore information that would helps make a decision, hence essential to that plot arc

Are you really that obtuse?

Heavily and Well Integrated DOES NOT equal Essential DLC. It equals Well Done DLC.

Basically what you are demanding is Bioware give you everything up front at no cost to yourself, not do DLC at all, and or only release fluff DLC for pittance prices.

I am a poor person so I would never slag someone for being poor, and a tight fisted Scotsman; and I gotta say this is the cheapest thing I have ever seen.

Take Shale out. Does her absence have any effect on how the quest turns out? No. My first play thru I didn't take her with me to find Branka/Caridin; and on my second I did. And honestly from a writing and plot stand point there isn't much difference.
The only thing you discover is is that Shale used to be a female dwarf. Thats it. So not, not "essential".

Javik on the other hand is a completely different case - he really was/is story and plot essential. You learn story critical information in From Ashes that if left out leaves questions unanswered.

No one should start a debate with the sentence "are you that obtuse?" then going on calling some one"cheap"

[EricHVela]

My vote is against retailer-specific loot. Some of us might live on a desert island and have few choices where we get our fare. (It's not nearly that bad, but this town is not YEG or LA or NYC and such.)

Still, that's just from an end-user point-of-view. I reckon that's an accord with the retailers for their sake rather than for the consumer. It's just business.

The only reason I have not liked 3 out of the 4 Day-1 DLCs I've had was that it seemed that the content should have been more integral and was reduced to optional content. That was just my impression of them, however. I got the same impression from some other later DLCs as well. It seemed like some potential was cut.

In a perfect world, all the content they wanted to give to us would be there at launch, everything integrated together in a strong knot.

It is not a perfect world (which would actually be quite boring I think). Content gets cut. Decisions are made to withhold content for later and work on other things now to get the product out there first and piecemeal the remaining stories later. It's easy to suspect that some of those decisions is for the goal of more income, but sometimes, it's just to meet a schedule.

[kingjezza]

Retailer specific items don't bother me, it's a ring here, a dagger there, an amulet everywhere, basically it's all tat which has no bearing on the game at all.

I also have no problem with day 1 DLC when it's done in the way Origins did it, no problem at all with them rewarding the people who buy their games new.

What I do have a problem with is when they start rewarding only certain people who buy the game new, be it you have to order before a certain date or you only get it if you order the CE etc etc. That is just taking shafting the fans to all new levels. Everybody who buys the game new should receive the same basic game, important characters/quests should not be missing.

There is absolutely no justification for these type of unscrupulous business practices.

[Fast Jimmy]

What I think would be a good compromise is this:

Pre-orders/Collector's Edition could offer free swag or goodies, promotional equipment, extra features (like having the mabari hound in DA2) and even an extra, non-essential quest DLC (think Return to Ostagar). Anything truly tied to the main plot(s) and any extra DLC companions should be released later, even if later is just three weeks down the road, when most games take their first dip in sales. This could be seen as a jump start to get interest in the game up again and keep it in the public's eye to increase sales again.

The REAL draw for a Collector's edition that costs more is this - a discount for future DLC for that game. If I get a 50% discount on future DLC by spending an extra $15 on the series before it comes out, then I can pick and choose which DLC I want to play (instead of being locked in at whatever DLC is decided on for Day One) and I become invested financially in the series, meaning I will be more lieu to buy, download and play every DLC that comes out. This could be doubly effective if the DLC Discount was only effective, say, for one year or for six months.

Paying for a future discount will not anger any fans. It will reward those who are hardcore dedicated to the series. And you can still release the DLC you were going to release on Day One a few weeks later, to much less criticism and howling.

I know with console networks, DLC prices are something that you don't have full control over, but depending on the size of the discount, it could be something Bioware just takes on the chin or breaks even on for the later possibility of having that same player buy DLC for the game after that promotional discount has run out.

Just a suggestion I have never seen anyone else make.

[berelinde]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

So if there was some package DLC that allowed all the preorder items for a small cost would that make things better?

Just spitballing ideas since I suspect just giving them away might not be something allowed depending on the arrangement with the retailer and a host of other things I certainly have no visibility into.

That would be an ideal solution, yes.

I am a compulsive collector. Unless there is a really good reason not to buy the last part of a set - I cannot stand Leliana, so there was no point in buying Leliana's Song - I have to have it.

Until something puts me off the series for good, of course. A protagonist with already-established religious views would do that, so I am watching DA3 very carefully. I like the series too much to let a bad experience ruin my enjoyment of DAO and DA2. It's like eating a bad shrimp. It doesn't matter how much you love shrimp, once you've had food poisoning, it will be a long, long time before you can bring yourself to eat them again.

[Novate]

Just read the replies from your fellow gamers in this thread and you will realize that Day 1 DLC will happen, and it will be bigger and more important.
Because people aren't fighting against it, 4 pages and pretty much over half of the players are saying Day 1 DLC is okay and that they are buying multiple copies for different retailers for each exclusive items. What part of that is telling EA to stop, its pretty much $$$ when I read the replies.

As a business, if 1 person buys multiple copies thats money earned, who cares if you are angry after you buy it, as long as you put out the money, that is all that mattered.

I am against Day 1 DLC that features Quests or Characters that adds to the Game but I am just 1 gamer , an Minority based on the replies of this thread that can be ignored.

[Fast Jimmy]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The REAL draw for a Collector's edition that costs more is this - a discount for future DLC for that game. If I get a 50% discount on future DLC by spending an extra $15 on the series before it comes out, then I can pick and choose which DLC I want to play (instead of being locked in at whatever DLC is decided on for Day One) and I become invested financially in the series, meaning I will be more lieu to buy, download and play every DLC that comes out. This could be doubly effective if the DLC Discount was only effective, say, for one year or for six months.

Paying for a future discount will not anger any fans. It will reward those who are hardcore dedicated to the series. And you can still release the DLC you were going to release on Day One a few weeks later, to much less criticism and howling.

I know with console networks, DLC prices are something that you don't have full control over, but depending on the size of the discount, it could be something Bioware just takes on the chin or breaks even on for the later possibility of having that same player buy DLC for the game after that promotional discount has run out.

Just a suggestion I have never seen anyone else make.

To add on to my own solution, this discount could even have its own name and have a branding initiative tied to it. Like 'Join the Inquisitors/N7/Gray Wardens and get a ##% discount on future DLC!' this could also entail a website for the group that puts them in communication as a member of that said group. Think maybe something like ESPN's INsider subscription service. 

[twincast]

So, a semi-season-pass, basically. (Or season-semi-pass? ... You know what I mean.)

Modifié par twincast, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:17 .

[crazyrabbits]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Shale was cut out of the game, the same way a lot of things get cut from the game.  THere was a time extension, however, when we ended up making console version.

The alternative to DLC would have, unfortunately, been no Shale at all :

Uh-huh. You keep telling yourself that, if it helps you sleep better at night.

The ME3 day-one debacle showed your sister unit took a character originally intended to be in the game, completed the majority of the content prior to certification and released it while emphatically denying it was anything more than a cash grab borne out of executive meddling, slapdash script changes and a belief that used games somehow constitute "lost sales". I have no reason to believe you wouldn't do the same thing again, given the opportunity.

After all, it's "what customers want", isn't it? EA (and Bioware, by extension) are practically the only publisher pushing Day-1 DLC and trying to play it off as needed and justified. You did it with Stone Prisoner, you did it with Shale, you even did it (to a lesser degree) with Sebastian. I have no reason to believe you won't do the same thing again.

I've already seen how your colleagues answer people who question dubious business practices. I know how this is going to work - tons of pre-order bonuses locked on-disc behind access keys, Day-1 DLC blatantly cut out of the game....you didn't even put out a DA2 collector's edition with all the extra content. Why should I believe that you'd do anything different this time?

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:26 .

[snackrat]

If you're going to have those bonuses (armour sets, skins, what have you) is there seriously no way to make them a paid DLC at some point? Pre-orders get them free, and immediately, and can get physical items as well (art books) or maybe free versions of other goods (such as the soundtrack).

One can only (or should only, because srsly) buy from one retailer. Yet they all get these different things. Then, there is pricing. If Store X charges $120, and Store Y charges $65, are you guys (the producers) not getting the same thing? (I mean, the same amount of money per sale. Presumably you wouldn't let Y sell it low if you could get X selling high.) Why is X marking up so high? Isn't the equivalent of charging $55 for their store bonus? WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT.

[Rawgrim]

I like the extra NPC you get from pre-ordering. Not fond of the extra equipment dlc`s though. in my opinion they tend to make the game itself alot easier.

[ChaosAgentLoki]

Why not to exclusive preorder and CE bonuses? Currently it seems like a really good idea to reward those who still have faith in Bioware and preorder DA3 or buy the CE. Why shouldn't those who do that be treated to something that those who don't want to won't get?  

Modifié par ChaosAgentLoki, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[nightscrawl]

crazyrabbits wrote...

Uh-huh. You keep telling yourself that, if it helps you sleep better at night.

Comments like this DO NOT encourage devs to post here.

Bring forth examples from ME if you really feel the need, but there's no need to be an ass about it. Also, you can cite all the examples you want until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't prove anything since you don't work for Bioware, and therefore don't know what goes on in the company. Just because (you think) the ME team did something one way doesn't mean the DA team are equallly guilty of doing the same thing.

Calling someone a liar doesn't make them one.



Oh and since this is about DLC... PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE have a similar Black Emporium thing with respec potions and a "mirror" to access the character creation. Whether it's a DLC or just a game feature, I don't care, just put it in there!

Modifié par nightscrawl, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Stiler]

I HAAAATE retailer specific pre order "Exclusives" mainly because NO legit, normal player can ever get the "full" game.

At least with Dragon Age i/II you could get the "Deluxe" version and get everything.

I do not mind a "pre order" bonus that's for everyone that pre orders and not store exclusive.

As long as there is a version (at launch, not months/year later, what's the point then? Most items are for newer players so it's pointless then) that we can buy with everything included it's fine.

I just hate the feeling of buying a new game, and feeling like there's things I'm missing out on (cool armor, weapons, a quest, etc).