486 réponses à ce sujet

[Jerrybnsn]

Tony77A wrote...

I hope they are done with both the Warden and Hawke.

I was actually a bit disappointed when he was referenced in DA2 as being back in Ferelden since he (in my headcanon) vanished with his love Morrigan and their baby through the mirror, never to be heard of again (at least in the capacity of a Grey Warden).

If you are speaking of Alistair mentioning the Warden is back in Fereldan, that would have taken place in the year 933. That's when Witch Hunt was suppose to have taken place, so your warden would have been there or at least Alistair had yet to find out that the Warden went through the mirror with Morrigan.

All of my surviving wardens retired after Origins/Awakening (one is Queen of Ferelden, another leader of the elves in Denerim, looking out for his people). And the dead are, well dead.

And as David has said, beyond what you played in the games and dlc, where your warden is at is there perogative now.  The only head canon you can have is with the dead wardens to where their buriel plot is.

I never connected enough with Hawke to care exactly what happenend with her and Merrill, so I wouldn't be too excited to see her in anything other than a cameo.

Same here.  He was a reactionary hero that I could only direct.  I'm sure he'll be the easiest to bring back as an NPC and there won't be any large amount of fan backlash of upsetting their "head canon" for him.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 25 septembre 2012 - 10:33 .

[Funkjoker]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

If you are speaking of Alistair mentioning the Warden is back in Fereldan, that would have taken place in the year 933. That's when Witch Hunt was suppose to have taken place, so your warden would have been there or at least Alistair had yet to find out that the Warden went through the mirror with Morrigan.

According to the timeline WH took place in 933, however act III seems to be in 937, 4 years after that. 

[Jerrybnsn]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

According to the timeline WH took place in 933, however act III seems to be in 937, 4 years after that. 

Was that cameo with Alistair in 937?  My bad.  I guess that's what I get for only playing through the game twice out of three tries.

I thought it was right after he came out of the deep roads, which it took one year before Hawke started to raise money for the expedition in 931 and then finished the Deep Roads one year later in 932, then meet with Alistair in 933. 

Okay, we do have a conflicting storyline here then.

[Cutlass Jack]

David Gaider wrote...

If they return (and are alive to do so), it would be as an NPC-- and we've said previously that, if we include them, it would be important to do it right and not as an unsatisfying cameo that would just make the very people they're included for unhappy. If we can't do that, then we just won't have them appear. Whether they appear or not, however, the question of their disappearance will need to be addressed.

I'm a little late to this post, but just wanted to bold the important part there. This is exactly what you want to avoid at all costs.

A great example of how not to do this was Revan in TOR. The only people who would care that Revan appeared in that game were just made angry by the person showing up claiming to be the character they loved. Everyone I knew who played the original game were made unhappy by the appearance. Everyone I knew who didn't play the original game couldn't care less.

Which was a shame, because the HK-47 appearance a few minutes prior to Revan showing up was an example of a satisfying cameo.

While I'm really sad I won't get a chance to play my Hawke again (possibly my favorite protaganist of all time), I don't want to see him again if I'm not playing him. It would be near impossible for you to do in any way everyone (or anyone) would find satisfying. Even if he was by some miracle done perfectly, I'd just be made even more sad he wasn't my protaganist.

In short, let me have my happy memories of the prior two games intact. If we're going to move on, lets really move on. Limit any references to stray bits of dialogue that accounts for imported info. If I catch a stray bar rumor about my Hawke and Isabela off plundering somewhere, I'll be a happy camper. If he shows up in my game with default Hawke face I'll just be angry.

[Teddie Sage]

Guys, you need to realize something: the Warden and Hawke, as Shepard, were never ours. Our characters belonged to BioWare all along. We just chose lines and etc. but the characters are creations of BioWare and belong to their writers. You just played with them, doesn't mean they belong to you. You are fans of those characters, as simple as that.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:20 .

[jackofalltrades456]

I'm starting to get the feeling that Gaider is going to kill off the Warden in an off screen death. Either through their Calling or something else...

[Teddie Sage]

That would be the best solution, in my honest opinion.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If we can't do that, then we just won't have them appear. Whether they appear or not, however, the question of their disappearance will need to be addressed.

While I'm really sad I won't get a chance to play my Hawke again (possibly my favorite protaganist of all time), I don't want to see him again if I'm not playing him. It would be near impossible for you to do in any way everyone (or anyone) would find satisfying. Even if he was by some miracle done perfectly, I'd just be made even more sad he wasn't my protaganist.

I too am really sad that I won't be able to continue on with my Warden in the same way that you connected with your Hawke.  Still, I'm hesitant in saying that I don't want to see him/her again in DA3, just on the hope that they might make a meaningful appearance and at least have some feeling of closure with this character.  To be able to want to continue on with this series, I would at least like that most of all.

However, even though what you say is true for me, that just the fact of not being able to play my former protagonist will most likely bring up feelings of disappointment,  and a simple cameo, a brief appearance for appearance sake, would definitely be a letdown,   a simple codex briefly mentioning the Warden would just burn me up completely.  There's no interaction with that scenario.  That's worse than the two incidents in DA2 when your warden is just mentioned briefly.

It would probably be best that they just ignore the Warden (and in your case, Hawke) and write it up as a lesson in poor execution of player's choice and game continuity.  But, I'm still keeping my fingers cross.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:49 .

[jackofalltrades456]

Teddie Sage wrote...

That would be the worst solution, in my honest opinion.

Fixed

I think the best solution is to just write off the whole Warden vanishing acting being part of this grand scheme  and simply hint that they're just busy within the Deep Roads. Maybe give us more closure with an text epilogue at the end. 

If they made Alistair or Loghain preform the DR or make the final killing blow to the AD, they end up  embraking on their calling.

If they preform the DR, then they'll be spotted in Denerim to recruit more Wardens for whatever is going on in the Deep roads.

If they were in a romance with Leliana, Alistair, or Zevran, they'll be reunited in some form.

Just killing them off screen and going " It's our character now guys,  tough luck!!", is just going to annoy people and grant more ammo to fire at Bioware. ( Remember Shepard and Revan...).

Just don't do that....

They're not going get angry, be denial, then accept it no matter what, Mr Gaider.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:52 .

[Teddie Sage]

Sorry, but you can't fix the opinions of people because they are called opinions.

[chuckwells62]

I really appreciated reading the various posted clarifications by Messrs. Gaider & Schumacher. It certainly helped put Bioware's company position on their previous player characters in proper perspective, whether I would prefer otherwise or not.

I empathize over the amount of head-banging these Bioware developers must be inclined to do given the ardor that some fans manifest over this fun franchise. Take it as a compliment that the initial game was just so engaging that alot of us can't easily let go.

[cindercatz]

Or just don't want to, in my case. I built 6 worlds through playing the previous two games. I didn't go back and do all that just to see some flavor text and the odd mention, nor for my characters to just disappear or die off-camera. I want to see my Wardens, full stop. I want to see my Hawkes, perhaps less because they're not as unique, but I want to see them.

What kills me and why I made all those arguements earlier is that there are people on here very vehemently voicing the opposite opinion, and I don't want them to ruin my chance to enjoy all those DA worlds I built with all my 100+ hours playthroughs, with my characters in them.

I want my characters to show up, be voiced, let me edit their designs (or pick pre-sets for people that don't care about character editing), and let me play off my former characters. I *want* my wardens and Hawkes to show up as important NPCs or semi-influenceable characters where I put them, or at least playing off of where I put them, and I'm going to be **extremely** disappointed if a few.. people on here say they'd be just so upset because they might not pick a particular dialogue option for their former character (who should reflect your choices for them in the former games, anyway), result in that being excluded from the game or any future games when we could have had that chance. I was actually very disappointed not to see the wardens with their mates when they showed up in DA2. I'll be much more so if that happens in DA3 because of a few people on these message boards.

Not everybody is so precious about having absolute control over a fiction entirely in your head, with a character that, if they don't show up, you'll never play again anyway. I want to see my Wardens, period.

Modifié par cindercatz, 27 septembre 2012 - 05:14 .

[AppealToReason]

I hope not. I want my Warden and Hawke and 3er to all run into eachother on the street and then have their brains explode when they all look almost identical.

[unbentbuzzkill]

nicely put *standing ovation*

[cindercatz]

Thanks. :-)

AppealToReason wrote...

I hope not. I want my Warden and Hawke and 3er to all run into eachother on the street and then have their brains explode when they all look almost identical.

If you get to edit their imports, or even remake their appearance from scratch, why would that ever happen? Why is a customizable appearance even an issue when you can fix it yourself?

[AppealToReason]

cindercatz wrote...

Thanks. :-)

AppealToReason wrote...

I hope not. I want my Warden and Hawke and 3er to all run into eachother on the street and then have their brains explode when they all look almost identical.

If you get to edit their imports, or even remake their appearance from scratch, why would that ever happen? Why is a customizable appearance even an issue when you can fix it yourself?

Why would I edit them at all? I made them look that way for a reason. 

I just think it would be funny. Blond hair, blue eyes, half face tattoo in blue, warrior Hawke/Warden/Inquisitor all running into eachother in the market square with their brigades of LI, bro and grumpy mcgrumps all staring at eachother before their heads explode and I get a game over screen and 100% of achievements.

[unbentbuzzkill]

a customized appearance editor is really not the issue to me imo the issue is bioware wants to do what it wants do no matter what and as long as the game makes money they are happy i.e me3

[cindercatz]

They want to make money and I want to see my Wardens. Them respecting what I did with my wardens and Hawkes and having them appear in the right way makes them more money, from me anyway. Sounds good.

AppealToReason wrote...

Why would I edit them at all? I made them look that way for a reason. 

I just think it would be funny. Blond hair, blue eyes, half face tattoo in blue, warrior Hawke/Warden/Inquisitor all running into eachother in the market square with their brigades of LI, bro and grumpy mcgrumps all staring at eachother before their heads explode and I get a game over screen and 100% of achievements.

ah, i see i see
Long lost triplets, then?

[AppealToReason]

cindercatz wrote...

They want to make money and I want to see my Wardens. Them respecting what I did with my wardens and Hawkes and having them appear in the right way makes them more money, from me anyway. Sounds good.

AppealToReason wrote...

Why would I edit them at all? I made them look that way for a reason. 

I just think it would be funny. Blond hair, blue eyes, half face tattoo in blue, warrior Hawke/Warden/Inquisitor all running into eachother in the market square with their brigades of LI, bro and grumpy mcgrumps all staring at eachother before their heads explode and I get a game over screen and 100% of achievements.

ah, i see i see
Long lost triplets, then?

Exactly! A real Katy Perry-Zooey Deschanel-Emily Blunt moment

[unbentbuzzkill]

the bottom line is what matters and if only a small percentage of people want their wardens or hawkes to be PC's and the rest really don't care guess who gets ignored for the bottom line I know it sucks but that is the way it works.

[cindercatz]

How do you know the bottom line? It's literally a few people that have made it dead set staunchly certain that they would rather their warden and Hawke simply cease to exist (since that's what practically happens if they're just a perpetual rumor). There's zero way of knowing what the bottom line even is.

I see that whole stance as vastly minority, no matter if a couple hundred say so on this board. Because in that case, they only exist in your past game, and they still exist, exactly as you made them, in your past game, so what's the issue? If you don't want them to show up, use the game generator to set your world and don't import. Problem solved.

I like to believe that the majority of people out there are open to cool stuff, and meeting my past characters (as I left them) is cool stuff.

AppealToReason wrote...

Exactly! A real Katy Perry-Zooey Deschanel-Emily Blunt moment

[unbentbuzzkill]

i would love to see or play my warden too but i don't see it happening, I think bioware has painted itself into a corner story wise and is to worried about possible criticism to make a leap of faith with the warden or hawke.

[cindercatz]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

i would love to see or play my warden too but i don't see it happening, I think bioware has painted itself into a corner story wise and is to worried about possible criticism to make a leap of faith with the warden or hawke.

That's what I'm scared of. I really don't think it's nearly the negative that some people on this board make it out to be, though. I really do think most people would think "cool" and move on. It'd be one of those things that makes a nice talking point, and then with the major plot flags all part of a generator if you don't want it, they're innoculated.

Modifié par cindercatz, 27 septembre 2012 - 06:26 .

[RogueWriter3201]

David Gaider wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...
But with DA:2 you changed that to where something came up and now players are left wondering what that something is.

Excellent. That is, however, a new story.

David, I get that this thread has likely decimated your patience at this juncture (Understandably. Some of the "reasoning" I've seen in this thread even leaves me furiously frustrated at the lack of comprehension or acceptance...and I'm not even *on* the DA Writing Team)

However, I did want to attempt to ask a question here as opposed to opening a new thread. Question: Since the Panel at PAX I've heard a conflicting rumor. For Inquisition there will be *no* import from DA2 due to a technical/narrative issue. As such, the game will start with selectable "Canon Events" from Origins and DA2 such as the one's offered at the start of Dragon Age 2 for those without imports. Is this True? If so I was hoping you, or another Writer's Pit Warrior, could clarify. Thank you.
 

[cindercatz]

That's a decidedly broad swipe at the thread, but here's an answer to the technical part of your question at least:

http://social.biowar...8859/1#14149364

As to any kind of set story canon/ "narrative issue" resulting in a lack of import feature? I hope that doesn't happen, but I'm interested where you heard that.


And to the thread, I'm trying to take Mr. Gaider's advice and trust that people just forbidding it to happen in this thread and a couple others won't actually stop the Wardens from appearing, just like I can't make it happen by asking nicely though I hope this thread has been at least a decent attempt at that. Least I made my preference known. When a few pages of posts boldface state, with passion, that nobody would be happy seeing the Warden or Hawke again, however, or that it just couldn't be done well enough for the fans, I feel the need to correct them on that and chime in with my PoV. Won't happen all the time, but I've had some recovery time to stare at the 'net the last week. Might as well waste it on this, even if that's all it is.

Modifié par cindercatz, 27 septembre 2012 - 09:57 .