486 réponses à ce sujet

[MiSS Provencale]

I must say that I would be very disappointed if we see not our warden and Hawke ... Even very angry ... Why? Why do we leave unanswered? My warden is the QUEEN of Ferelden. A queen does not disappear like his! Hawke pourqoi I understand she disappeared because she supported Anders (in my part they are a couple). He still did blow the Chantry (and so much better ...) to Kirkwall.

I WANT TO SEE MY WARDEN AND HAWKE!!

[RogueWriter3201]

cindercatz wrote...

That's a decidedly broad swipe at the thread, but here's an answer to the technical part of your question at least:

http://social.biowar...8859/1#14149364

As to any kind of set story canon/ "narrative issue" resulting in a lack of import feature? I hope that doesn't happen, but I'm interested where you heard that.


And to the thread, I'm trying to take Mr. Gaider's advice and trust that people just forbidding it to happen in this thread and a couple others won't actually stop the Wardens from appearing, just like I can't make it happen by asking nicely though I hope this thread has been at least a decent attempt at that. Least I made my preference known. When a few pages of posts boldface state, with passion, that nobody would be happy seeing the Warden or Hawke again, however, or that it just couldn't be done well enough for the fans, I feel the need to correct them on that and chime in with my PoV. Won't happen all the time, but I've had some recovery time to stare at the 'net the last week. Might as well waste it on this, even if that's all it is.

While Allan doesn't give any concrete answers, at least it shows there is, seemingly, an issue they are trying to find the best way to resolve in regards to incorporating imports, so that's something at least. Honestly, many of the suggestions for selecting from a list of "Flag" events/choices at the start of the game seem viable (especially due to so many Flags being broken between DAO and DA2), and would certainly solve the issue of DA3 being a next-gen console title. As for where I heard this rumor? Firstly on the Escapist Forums and, secondly, word of mouth at my local Gamestop. Neither are concrete sources, of course, but it none the less caught my ear and gave me some degree of concern. 

[burning salaradile]

It just won't feel right if we keep going through new protagonists without getting closure on any of them. And quite frankly, there's not much in the way of closure for the Warden or Hawke. Why does the Warden inexplicably stop being Warden-Commander/King/Queen/Paragon/whatever and disappear? Now I get that Grey Wardens don't do much outside of fighting darkspawn, but honestly, it would even be better to hear "oh, they're off doing Warden-y things across the water in Ferelden" than "they disappeared". Disappearance just doesn't make sense for the majority of Wardens (excepting possibly Morrigan romancers). Hawke makes a little more sense (if he/she sided with the mages, otherwise not really) as he/she would be on the run from the templars, but nonetheless if the mage/templar war is part of the story in DA3, it doesn't make sense for Hawke to be absent. Also, I'm sure someone has said this before, but with the constant cameos by former party members, the lack of the Warden's or Hawke's presence becomes more and more conspicuous as time goes on. These absolutely must be addressed. If nothing else, give the protagonist of DA3 a satisfying conclusion and a concrete reason why they won't show up in future Dragon Age games.

[Cutlass Jack]

MiSS Provencale wrote...

I must say that I would be very disappointed if we see not our warden and Hawke ... Even very angry ... Why? Why do we leave unanswered? My warden is the QUEEN of Ferelden. A queen does not disappear like his! Hawke pourqoi I understand she disappeared because she supported Anders (in my part they are a couple). He still did blow the Chantry (and so much better ...) to Kirkwall.

I WANT TO SEE MY WARDEN AND HAWKE!!

But you'd never see your Warden and Hawke. If they showed up as NPCs they would not be the characters you remember. They wouldn't even look like you remember them. Think about how characters you knew from DAO looked once you got over into DA2. (i.e. Alistair or Zevran) And that was the same graphic engine. DA3 will feature an entirely new graphic engine so there would be no real way they could import your face into it.

I wouldn't want to see a warden or Hawke show up that wasn't mine. And there is no way they could import mine into the game and have them behave in a way consistent to how I played them. It would just be a huge disappointment that everyone would rage about.

[cindercatz]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

MiSS Provencale wrote...

I must say that I would be very disappointed if we see not our warden and Hawke ... Even very angry ... Why? Why do we leave unanswered? My warden is the QUEEN of Ferelden. A queen does not disappear like his! Hawke pourqoi I understand she disappeared because she supported Anders (in my part they are a couple). He still did blow the Chantry (and so much better ...) to Kirkwall.

I WANT TO SEE MY WARDEN AND HAWKE!!

But you'd never see your Warden and Hawke. If they showed up as NPCs they would not be the characters you remember. They wouldn't even look like you remember them. Think about how characters you knew from DAO looked once you got over into DA2. (i.e. Alistair or Zevran) And that was the same graphic engine. DA3 will feature an entirely new graphic engine so there would be no real way they could import your face into it.

I wouldn't want to see a warden or Hawke show up that wasn't mine. And there is no way they could import mine into the game and have them behave in a way consistent to how I played them. It would just be a huge disappointment that everyone would rage about.

But why is the appearance an issue at all when you can simply edit them again? We had no control whatsoever in the companion's appearances for DA2, because they weren't our characters. But BioWare's not sitting around trying to make every possible permutation of Warden perfectly translate into the new graphic style or whatever new textures they're using. That should be up to us. Then if we're not happy with the way they look, it's on us, not BioWare.

Consistent behaviour or personality I don't think is that hard, so long as they use our imports. Your Warden will likely sound different, yes, but the decisions we made in DA:O should apply to whatever issues come up in DA3, so if we were pro-mage there, our wardens would be sympathetic in DA3. If not, then the opposite. Elf friendly? Dwarven traditionalist? All the major things that might come up were dealt with in some way in DA:O. Whatever religious stance our Wardens took could carry over mostly seamlessly (unless your responses were haphazzard in DA:O). Just take whichever the majority answer you made was and adopt that as your warden's religious idealogy. And so on. I don't see this as an issue.

Hawke's extremely simple. You just take his/her dominant personality and their stance on the mage question and import those, because DA2 was basically a one issue game, and the only real characterization we had to make was the tone we took throughout and just how devout an Andrastian Hawke was. I suppose you could add Hawke's stance on slavery and their stance on blood magic, but there's not much more than that, not that's likely to come up.

Import the romances from both games and voila, Warden and Hawke, as much as they need.

If they do show up, they'd have to be interactive about as much as a follower in the sense that you can sway them on new issues, so we'd still have control as players over which direction our wardens took, or whatever there is for Hawke to consider. If we encounter them as enemies, because our inquisitor has taken a stance that's opposed to something we've already set our wardens or Hawkes for in the previous games, then that's still our decisions that put them there, and I think that should be possible.

All three of them are still my characters in anything like what I described here, as much as they ever were. So I won't feel that I've lost agency at all. I'll just be excited to see them live up to their potential in the story.

[Icesong]

cindercatz wrote...
Consistent behaviour or personality I don't think is that hard, so long as they use our imports. Your Warden will likely sound different, yes, but the decisions we made in DA:O should apply to whatever issues come up in DA3, so if we were pro-mage there, our wardens would be sympathetic in DA3. If not, then the opposite. Elf friendly? Dwarven traditionalist? All the major things that might come up were dealt with in some way in DA:O. Whatever religious stance our Wardens took could carry over mostly seamlessly (unless your responses were haphazzard in DA:O). Just take whichever the majority answer you made was and adopt that as your warden's religious idealogy. And so on. I don't see this as an issue.

It's a very major issue, there's almost no other issue worth considering. Your solutions are very simplistic and exactly the kind of thing I'd expect to see BioWare implement. No offense, truly. But what's more important than what your characters did is why they did it. There's no import data for your character's inner beliefs and motives. Should they decide to voice your Warden then out goes much of the personality and demeanor you worked up as well.

My Warden's import would probably be identical to several thousands of people. Who my Warden is would be similar to almost none of them.

Modifié par Icesong, 28 septembre 2012 - 02:02 .

[Nenya Higurashi]

My warden is kinda dead so... It'd be weird having her around,maybe awakening's? But... with both of them, it'd probably kill my mind-canon so.... I'd rather just have some brief news aout them or why awakening's warden and Hawke disappeared.

[AbsoluteApril]

not sure if this has already been mentioned, but as far as my Wardens (some of which are dead) I'd really like to see a statue of him/her at Weisshaupt Fortress.
As long as both are at least mentioned here and there, I'll be fine with not actually seeing their faces.

[unbentbuzzkill]

the problem with DA3 imo besides the warden and hawke are now just basically footnotes is continually it'll be choppy at best.

[Medhia Nox]

I prefer the story being about a new protagonist.

After Dragon Age 2 made it clear there would be a new protagonist - any confusion about three would only be self-delusion.

I much prefer franchises about "worlds" - than I do franchises about Main Protagonists.

I blame gaming companies for turning their Main Protagonists into Uber-Characters that players have now been trained to become obsessed with. 

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 28 septembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[unbentbuzzkill]

everybody is entitled to heir own opinions, and myself personally i wouldn't really care if they would have just granted some sort of closure to the prior games protags, not just stick them in a corner and go don't look over there, just ignore everything that happened in DA:O.

[Heimdall]

Icesong wrote...

cindercatz wrote...
Consistent behaviour or personality I don't think is that hard, so long as they use our imports. Your Warden will likely sound different, yes, but the decisions we made in DA:O should apply to whatever issues come up in DA3, so if we were pro-mage there, our wardens would be sympathetic in DA3. If not, then the opposite. Elf friendly? Dwarven traditionalist? All the major things that might come up were dealt with in some way in DA:O. Whatever religious stance our Wardens took could carry over mostly seamlessly (unless your responses were haphazzard in DA:O). Just take whichever the majority answer you made was and adopt that as your warden's religious idealogy. And so on. I don't see this as an issue.

It's a very major issue, there's almost no other issue worth considering. Your solutions are very simplistic and exactly the kind of thing I'd expect to see BioWare implement. No offense, truly. But what's more important than what your characters did is why they did it. There's no import data for your character's inner beliefs and motives. Should they decide to voice your Warden then out goes much of the personality and demeanor you worked up as well.

My Warden's import would probably be identical to several thousands of people. Who my Warden is would be similar to almost none of them.

QFT

This is exactly what worries me about the Warden or even Hawke ever appearing.  The only way such an appearance would be satisfying to importing players would be to give them full control over their character for a brief segment, and I just don't see Bioware doing that.

[Mike3207]

It would have to be tied to your import-there's no other way I can see the Warden return. They did it for Awakening, so it could be done.

[unbentbuzzkill]

chopped nug livers

[unbentbuzzkill]

well sooner or later they'll have to deal with ithe issue like it or not.

[Heimdall]

Mike Smith wrote...

It would have to be tied to your import-there's no other way I can see the Warden return. They did it for Awakening, so it could be done.

Player control is the key difference.  Not to mention an engine and art change that will make appearance imports an impossibility.

[unbentbuzzkill]

that's when you have a face editor at the beginning of the game i.e Me3

[cindercatz]

Yep.

Lord Aesir wrote...

Icesong wrote...

cindercatz wrote...
Consistent behaviour or personality I don't think is that hard, so long as they use our imports. Your Warden will likely sound different, yes, but the decisions we made in DA:O should apply to whatever issues come up in DA3, so if we were pro-mage there, our wardens would be sympathetic in DA3. If not, then the opposite. Elf friendly? Dwarven traditionalist? All the major things that might come up were dealt with in some way in DA:O. Whatever religious stance our Wardens took could carry over mostly seamlessly (unless your responses were haphazzard in DA:O). Just take whichever the majority answer you made was and adopt that as your warden's religious idealogy. And so on. I don't see this as an issue.

It's a very major issue, there's almost no other issue worth considering. Your solutions are very simplistic and exactly the kind of thing I'd expect to see BioWare implement. No offense, truly. But what's more important than what your characters did is why they did it. There's no import data for your character's inner beliefs and motives. Should they decide to voice your Warden then out goes much of the personality and demeanor you worked up as well.

My Warden's import would probably be identical to several thousands of people. Who my Warden is would be similar to almost none of them.

QFT

This is exactly what worries me about the Warden or even Hawke ever appearing.  The only way such an appearance would be satisfying to importing players would be to give them full control over their character for a brief segment, and I just don't see Bioware doing that.

Here's the thing, though. As far as the game's logic, and hence what your wardens did and what they would do, there is no why. The game is not going to get inside the warden's head more than it has to. It will act on his or her stance on whatever part of the game they're involved in and that's it. And the why is still whatever why you gave them. It doesn't change because it's not relevant to what actions they would take. If your warden took a certain stand on an issue, then whatever why you had in your head (and we all do, or at least all of us who roleplay like that, like I do) doesn't change regardless of whether you're directly controlling them or not.

It's nothing but a metagame issue, because what's on-screen wouldn't change at all. As far as I'm concerned, in an npc scenario like that, I'm still in control of my Warden, because my Warden is still doing and saying the things I would have them do and say, based off of things I chose directly for them to say and do in DA:O. It's not 'weird' for me. There's no cognitive dissonance. I don't have to be in that character's skin to be controlling what they're doing.

edit:
And I'm not saying I'm against getting full control for a conversation or two of both characters, or all three if they met at once. But I don't need it as long as the import accounts for my previous actions, because, again, it doesn't change what would actually happen. The only thing I can see come up is the player deciding to change the warden's mind on something the player initially set their mind to, but then the player is overwriting their previous character from bias from the new, so that imo shouldn't happen, except through full dialogue to figure out any new issue that comes up, like I described earlier. We're talking about full dialogues with choices, not simple cutscenes where you have no input.

Modifié par cindercatz, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:42 .

[MiSS Provencale]

I'm sure they will be able to import faces grey warden and Hawke. They made ​​for Mass Effect so do not do it for DA3??? Personally I would be very disappointed if I did not see my queen or my Hawke keeps shadows;)

[cindercatz]

MiSS Provencale wrote...

I'm sure they will be able to import faces grey warden and Hawke. They made ​​for Mass Effect so do not do it for DA3??? Personally I would be very disappointed if I did not see my queen or my Hawke keeps shadows;)

Same here. Gotta have face import/edit. I don't just want to see a mysterious cloaked figure walk by.

Modifié par cindercatz, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:45 .

[unbentbuzzkill]

THIS THREAD WILL NOT DIE! ......anyway truthfully do you think bioware is actually listening to us i doubt it when a game company ( bioware ) starts throwing around artistic integrity when your in a consumer based business then all is lost.

[Cutlass Jack]

cindercatz wrote...

But why is the appearance an issue at all when you can simply edit them again? We had no control whatsoever in the companion's appearances for DA2, because they weren't our characters. But BioWare's not sitting around trying to make every possible permutation of Warden perfectly translate into the new graphic style or whatever new textures they're using. That should be up to us. Then if we're not happy with the way they look, it's on us, not BioWare.

Consistent behaviour or personality I don't think is that hard, so long as they use our imports. Your Warden will likely sound different, yes, but the decisions we made in DA:O should apply to whatever issues come up in DA3, so if we were pro-mage there, our wardens would be sympathetic in DA3. If not, then the opposite. Elf friendly? Dwarven traditionalist? All the major things that might come up were dealt with in some way in DA:O. Whatever religious stance our Wardens took could carry over mostly seamlessly (unless your responses were haphazzard in DA:O). Just take whichever the majority answer you made was and adopt that as your warden's religious idealogy. And so on. I don't see this as an issue.

Hawke's extremely simple. You just take his/her dominant personality and their stance on the mage question and import those, because DA2 was basically a one issue game, and the only real characterization we had to make was the tone we took throughout and just how devout an Andrastian Hawke was. I suppose you could add Hawke's stance on slavery and their stance on blood magic, but there's not much more than that, not that's likely to come up.

Import the romances from both games and voila, Warden and Hawke, as much as they need.

If they do show up, they'd have to be interactive about as much as a follower in the sense that you can sway them on new issues, so we'd still have control as players over which direction our wardens took, or whatever there is for Hawke to consider. If we encounter them as enemies, because our inquisitor has taken a stance that's opposed to something we've already set our wardens or Hawkes for in the previous games, then that's still our decisions that put them there, and I think that should be possible.

All three of them are still my characters in anything like what I described here, as much as they ever were. So I won't feel that I've lost agency at all. I'll just be excited to see them live up to their potential in the story.

Are you suggesting they actually have a character editing screen for Hawke and the Warden so they can show up for a small cameo? They aren't going to do that since it would ruin the surprise of having them show up. It would be far too much extra effort.

Personalities are even more complex.You could not be more incorrect about Hawke being simple. It was the feature I liked best about DA2. I have Five Hawks that are nothing similar in personality, or at all similar to the Hawkes of my Wife's playthrough. And thats without even getting into all the possible friendship/rivalry relationships.

As for the Warden, they couldn't even handle his history correctly just making the hop into Awakening, let alone DA2. Import flags for both DAO and Awkening were completely messed up, which in turn messed up DA2. And that game might even have more errors.

The whole thing would be a train wreck that would annoy more people than it would make happy. Just glance at the forum rage based on Leliana still having her head attached in DA2. Somehow there are legions of complaining people who beheaded her in DAO, even if they were playing a staff wielding mage. That's one small detail. The Warden/Hawke would have even broader possibilities for disaster.

Just to use one of my Hawke's as an example, any appearance of him that did not involve him being the swashbuckling First Mate of the Siren's Call II under Captain Isabela would be completely incorrect before he even opened his mouth. And if that Hawke did show up, I'd be really sad I wasn't playing him instead.

So its kind of no-win. But on the other hand overhearing something in a tavern about his pirate adventures would be great.

[Heimdall]

cindercatz wrote...
Here's the thing, though. As far as the game's logic, and hence what your wardens did and what they would do, there is no why. The game is not going to get inside the warden's head more than it has to. It will act on his or her stance on whatever part of the game they're involved in and that's it. And the why is still whatever why you gave them. It doesn't change because it's not relevant to what actions they would take. If your warden took a certain stand on an issue, then whatever why you had in your head (and we all do, or at least all of us who roleplay like that, like I do) doesn't change regardless of whether you're directly controlling them or not.
It's nothing but a metagame issue, because what's on-screen wouldn't change at all. As far as I'm concerned, in an npc scenario like that, I'm still in control of my Warden, because my Warden is still doing and saying the things I would have them do and say, based off of things I chose directly for them to say and do in DA:O. It's not 'weird' for me. There's no cognitive dissonance. I don't have to be in that character's skin to be controlling what they're doing.
edit:
And I'm not saying I'm against getting full control for a conversation or two of both characters, or all three if they met at once. But I don't need it as long as the import accounts for my previous actions, because, again, it doesn't change what would actually happen. The only thing I can see come up is the player deciding to change the warden's mind on something the player initially set their mind to, but then the player is overwriting their previous character from bias from the new, so that imo shouldn't happen, except through full dialogue to figure out any new issue that comes up, like I described earlier. We're talking about full dialogues with choices, not simple cutscenes where you have no input.

You aren't getting it.  I'll try to explain in an example.  Say for example that my Warden saved the mages, but only did so because he figured mages would be more usefully than Templars in combating the Blight and is in fact very pro-Templar.  However, the game reads this as a pro-Mage decision.  Any import will have DA3 thinking my Warden would support the mages when he really supports the Templars.  Thus we have my Warden acting completely out of character.  If Bioware can't account for the logic processes the resulted in an action, they can't use it to predict future actions.

[cindercatz]

sorry for the length, but thanks for the discussion :-)

@Cutlass Jack

Do I think they'd go through the trouble for simple short cameo? My answer is I hope it's not a short cameo, but rather a fairly long scene or couple of scenes around some important event or events in the game. Doesn't take a ton of time, so not a ton of extra voice acting budget for the probably six VAs, but enough that it's a significant event for the overall games, and enough to justify hiring all those VAs in the first place. Also, it might help if some of the VAs also voice other minor characters in the game, so you can get more bang for your buck on a recording session. If you've got race selection in the game (still holding out hope they do) or in the next game, then the cc expansion is already earning its keep. I'm sure BioWare knows how they can make it work if they choose to. I don't have any revelations for them. I just hope they do decide that it's worth it, and that it can be done to most players' standards cost effectively.

Yes I'm suggesting having an import editor for all three characters. It doesn't have to all be at the first, though personally I'd prefer it so it doesn't break up the rhythm of the game. I'm talking about it giving you an import, then you can accept that import, modify it to hearts content, or just choose from a set of pre-sets if you don't want to spend the time. Because it's an import of the face you already made, it won't take nearly as long to correct as making the face from scratch. However, if you want to make one from scratch, that's what the pre-sets are there for as well. Maybe you think one of those is closer to what you want even, though I don't think it would be an issue, excepting elven Wardens, which are going to be a bit different because of the elf redesign (and I hope re-redesign). If someone really cares about the characters face like I do, I don't think spending a little bit of extra time on it would be an issue. And for non-import playthroughs, they can edit the pre-sets if they like or choose one, up to them, very quick if they don't want to edit. That way some version of the Warden and Hawke will show up (or not if you choose, but by default) in new player's first runs with the franchise, and all the expense in fully voicing them and bringing them into the world doesn't solely go to players that have already been with the series. It improves the cost/benefit ratio.

Not to mention, the character creator tool is fun. It's not dead space, it's positive gameplay.

Your Hawke being a pirate is part of the LI gamestate I mentioned, but while I'd love for him to show up the pirate you left him, BioWare already made him disappear as of DA2 (or at least that's what I'm left with), so most likely he'd reference it instead (and hopefully if he's with Issabella for you, she'll be there too, not probably but hopefully). The personality is more about how he says something. I can't see them adding motivations you didn't give your Hawke, so instead it comes down to stating whatever the situation is and whatever side of whatever dilemma he's on (based on your choices in DA2), in the dominant personality that he got as you played him in DA2. I see it more like looking in the mirror at a character you made, and then letting you make some new decisions for him through the dialogue system, then a traditional NPC. He shouldn't have BioWare tm motivations and pathos. He should have a direct reflection of the choices you actually made, and the choices you make during the dialogue. That way you're still in control.

What I meant by simple is that Hawke didn't come across most issues in the DAverse in any way that DA2 allowed you to determine an outcome, rather he/she was fighting against the wind, and therefore the only things that Hawke should be allowed to think for him/herself on in game are the things you did choose yourself, definitively, in DA2, and there weren't many of those (90% of the either/ors being mage/templar, with a little nuance for bloodmage opinion, etc. The game forced you to definitively take a side on mage templar. It didn't honor it, but that choice was clearly made toward the end of the game, with a figurative gun to the player's head. You also got to execute Anders or not, which would apply to how severe Hawke's stance is. The Warden, on the other hand, had to deal with multiple Big Idea questions, not a lot of nuance on one issue. The Qunari thing, no matter how your Hawke felt (mine first was very nuanced on this), he still had to kill the Arishok and kick them out of Kirkwall. Things like that. It still forced you to fight the Tal Vashoth before that. So it can't take railroaded actions as part of an imported stance. It should leave everything else up to you when you meet him by not claiming one way or the other until you state your position.

The last thing is about the import flags, which I'm with you on, except that I think the problem was a lack of prioritization, not a lack of ability to get it right. I think if they know just how important it is to correctly import and how important it is to maintain our control over the characters basic set of positions and thereby overall personality, there's no reason they can't technically do it. It just has to be a much stronger focus. That part of the game can't ship buggy.

It's just a matter of if they think it's worth the effort. IMO, it is, very much so. Like I said, I've got well over 100+ hours per import on Origins, more than a 1000 hours altogether, literally 100s of hours more than I've ever played on any game, and I played those complete playthroughs on the promise of imports, and to me that includes my characters in some active capacity. The whole off mention thing like we got in DA2, while a nice little thing, is nowhere near enough world fidelity. If that's all we're going to get going forward, I may as well have not played the last 700 hours of that. And that goes for my DA2 Hawkes as well, though it's a shorter game. I may as well quit if that's all there's ever gonna be, and go back to playing each game once through, maybe start buying it used. Experiences like DA2 and a cursory nod to the whole idea of importing our worlds is not why I follow the franchise so closely. I don't want that again.

Lord Aesir wrote...

You aren't getting it.  I'll try to explain in an example.  Say for example that my Warden saved the mages, but only did so because he figured mages would be more usefully than Templars in combating the Blight and is in fact very pro-Templar.  However, the game reads this as a pro-Mage decision.  Any import will have DA3 thinking my Warden would support the mages when he really supports the Templars.  Thus we have my Warden acting completely out of character.  If Bioware can't account for the logic processes the resulted in an action, they can't use it to predict future actions.

That's a legitimate problem, I agree. OK. But I still don't think it's that hard to solve, or hard at all. You know how you can go over the import flags in DA2 and see where any inconsistencies are? (and it seems like, toggle it to the correct answer, but I haven't played it in a while, been finishing up more Wardens )

Why not have a seperate list that gives what the game thinks your Warden's (and your Hawke's) stances are, seperate from import flags, and then allow you to correct anything you don't agree with? Basic stances that would determine an action in game, I mean, not detailed descriptions. During the game import process. Then it adjusts your Warden's (and Hawke's) autonomous actions for anything that happens during the course of the third game, but doesn't retroactively change your decisions. So you won't be suprised about anything your Warden or Hawke does independently of you (in the sense of it being consistent with your vision of your character). Would that work for you?

The trade-off is that everybody would know that the Warden, Hawke, and the new character would all be in the game from the start, so it wouldn't be some big shock to see them. But with the graphical import issues, that's a good thing anyway. I want to know ahead o' time regardless. It still tells us nothing about where we'll see them or what part of the plot they're involved in etc., what role they really play. The meat of their appearance is still a mystery until you play it.

I know that's a lot. Thanks for reading.

[septembervirgin]

Gaider, wouldn't the easiest and perhaps best solution be to kill the Warden? He does have an upcoming date with the Deep Roads. And of course there's the possibility of another arch-demon (oh please, let him be eaten by an arch-demon).