Well, at least have the protagonist of DA3 walk past the corpse of a gigantic dead High Dragon/Pride Demons with the words "THE QUEEN WAS HERE" carved into its body or something. I would be totally chill with that.
Is bioware really done with the warden and hawke?
Débuté par
toddx77
, sept. 18 2012 12:28
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#477
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 02:34
Genetic13
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Icesong wrote...
Skyrim was set 200 years after Oblivion but Oblivion was set just about 6 years after Morrowind. They could just as easily have set Skyrim closer but wanted to let the Fourth Era that began in Oblivion to unfold further. Realistic passage of time: another key element for growing your world.
TES accomplished having the player character be more or less unknown in subsequent games by having those games take place in the vastly different nations of Tamriel. Despite how important you were as the Nerevarine to Morrowind it didn't really impact the lives of people living in Cyrodiil. The same could be said for The Warden's notoriety outside of Ferelden. They know what you did but they don't know who you are.
Fair enough about TES. However a key difference is, still, that there was no link between the PC characters going from one game to the next (at least not a very significant one). I'm speaking of the "mordern" TES games, Morrowind, Oblivion, & Skyrim.
Well, I think that line was a terrible mistake as far as The Warden is considered. I think the best thing to do is to walk it back; it's not too late to do so without retconning.
It's just the player character being reused without us playing as them that I object to. I only brought up the worldbuilding point as an aside, which I still maintain. You can pile on the lore but that won't necessarily make the world feel big. Warcraft is a decent example of this: every time there's a crisis the major players of Azeroth are on deck to deal with it. This isn't a criticism, really, I love Warcraft. Honestly, I don't get enough of Thrall. But if Leliana and Alistair keep cropping up throughout Thedas with their hand in something important then the world will lose a sense of grand scale.
It Doesn't necessarily have to be Leliana and Alistar cropping up everywhere there's a major event. Although, I do expect to see more of leliana in the next game (or at least hear about her activities) given the events of DA2. You could run into Zevran doing Crow things, Sten with some other Qunari, or the two from Awakening on some Grey Warden business. That's just a few of DAO's cast, you still have DA2's you could pull from, and this new game will add more to the pool. Small little side events would do, so you can be like, "Oh, so that's what (insert character) has been up to." They could use obscure charcters that were popular for this too.
But back to the actual point. Preserving the sanctity of the player character should be a foremost consideration for any RPG. I see that you think that our characters are the developer's/DM's so maybe we're just going to talk past each other on this. To me, they just give us a framework. It's as if they took an indescript shadow from history whose deeds were known and asked us to say who they were. They know what you did but they don't know who you are.
Yeah, I can see this one going in circles, so I will leave it alone.
Exactly what kind of things would you want to see made as canon? I can't object without knowing, but I can't think of anything DA so desperately needs established except perhaps Orzammar(and Flemeth wasn't really a retcon). They'll soon be unveiling Orlais to us, an entire nation we haven't truly gotten a sense of. That's an amazing amount of life to me. There's plenty else to work with as well.
Revan.
I have no particular preference for what is set as cannon, as long as it makes sense based on things we already know to be true. You could eliminate Alistair showing up again by making him king, for example though. Simple things like that.
Modifié par Genetic13, 12 octobre 2012 - 02:38 .
#478
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 03:43
InfinitePaths
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toddx77 wrote...
I remember hearing bioware say that the wardens story is pretty much done and if hawke were too appear in dragon age 3 it would probably be in DLC only. Does anyone else find it hard to believe that both of them are finished though? With the warden the last we saw was he/she either went into the portal with Morrigan or watched her go into the portal. Not only that but there is still the whole issue of the god child. Hawke became the champion of kirkwall and both the warden and hawke have gone missing and Leliana says that is no accident. So wouldn't it make sense to put the 2 of them in dragon age 3 as playable characters or at least major characters? The seekers need hawkes help and with the war about to start surly the warden is someone who the seekers would like helping them. The only other reason for not having the warden and hawke being in 3 is that 3 will end with the war starting and the warden, hawke, and the new character from 3 will all be working together in dragon age 4.
I don't want them to bring the warden back.He/She can be with alistar/Leliana/zevran/dead/morrigan(some of the wardens didn't bother to go look for her)...His/Hers story is over
#479
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 04:49
Kail Ashton
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I'm mostly happy with how the wardens wrapped up, my only annoyance is the whole "the warden has vanished!" that pisses me off, the stories for them ended well enough so leave em be how i left them in game
Hawke on the otherhand had a very unsatisfactory conclusion, that i want expanded on
Hawke on the otherhand had a very unsatisfactory conclusion, that i want expanded on
#480
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 05:00
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I want to find out what happened to the Warden and Hawke, and possibly save them and send them on their merry way, but otherwise I don't want them to come back. I would rather they be mentioned in passing, not shown or controlled.
I don't like Hawke as a character and I don't want BioWare to impose their vision on what they think our Wardens should look and sound like. (Especially the new elf design. I will seriously break my game and mail it back to BioWare in pieces if they portray my CE Warden with the hideous new elf design.)
I don't like Hawke as a character and I don't want BioWare to impose their vision on what they think our Wardens should look and sound like. (Especially the new elf design. I will seriously break my game and mail it back to BioWare in pieces if they portray my CE Warden with the hideous new elf design.)
#481
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 06:45
h0neanias
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Icesong wrote...
h0neanias wrote...
Perhaps it bears mentioning that "the Warden disappeared" says nothing else that Leliana is unable to determine his/her whereabouts. It can as well mean he grabbed his beloved elven assassin and sneaked out under the cover of night to escape into far away lands where they f'd happily ever after. I for my part feel no desire to be given "closure" about my character, as long as a story is concluded satisfactorily. Origins was. DA2 leaves a lot to be desired -- that, however, has little to do with disappearance of characters and more with disappearance of the plot.
What if Leliana was the LI? And what if you stayed in Denerim? That's basically asking to believe Leliana didn't look anywhere before saying The Warden disappeared.
Which is something I'm willing to take. Maybe I was at the tavern when she dropped by the house?
Of course there's a gaping hole at the end of DA2. What I meant is that I'd be perfectly fine with such a thing if it allowed for reasonable, logical open-endedness, that is open-endedness regarding characters isn't a problem for me. The plot hole is.
Modifié par h0neanias, 12 octobre 2012 - 06:56 .
#482
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 10:11
Ravnos5392
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I really do not post in game forums much, but really wanted
to give my thoughts into the past protagonists particularly the warden, and how
the series has played out so far. If Bioware was truly finished with both characters
I would have to believe that they would not have been so negligent as to make them mysteriously
vanish as well as have possible LI’s such as Leliana play potentially important roles in
the future plot. It seems kind of shortsighted to be doing so arbitrarily,
unless they are bowing to fan pressure and still have no real idea where they
are going with the plot. Personally I would have been happy if there were only
minor off-screen updates as to the status of the warden and eventually Hawke,
knowing technology limitations and their desire to move on to other characters.
Past LI’s left this possibility as an easy fix since those characters were in
many of our minds tied very closely to our past PC’s and were an excellent way
to update the where are they now type stories without dragging them back into
the story by effectively negating many of our “happy ever after” scenarios.
However DA 2 did a poor job of jumping on this opportunity
in many situations. For example, while those who romanced Morrigan are indeed given
some form of closure, being only left to imagine what happens at the other side
of the portal, and their disappearance in the DA universe making since, thus
still allowing a great deal of how that ending concludes to the imagination, some
of the rest of us were not so lucky and effectively had the stories in our head
revoked. For example once again looking to the Leliana romance, she makes a
small yet very interesting appearance where she reveals she KNEW the warden
and that he/she are dear to her, implying that although they may be still considered
together or that the relationship still exists in some way, that somehow she has
lost track of her significant other,which understandably leaves more than a few people
potentially crying betrayalthat envisioned a walking into the sunset scenario where
maybe the two traveledthe world did the whole buying a farm with white picket fences
and ten children or what have you. The point being that all we are left with are lots of
questions such as is she even looking? Assuming it has been years since they
have last been in contact, what has she even been doing to find the PC this
whole time? If my wife/girlfriend went missing for a considerable amount of
time, I imagine I would probably make it a huge mission to go find out where
she went, not go play politics while waiting around like a goon for her to
return or just moving on to business as usual.
Seeing a past character so closely linked to my old PC doing
their own thing just feels wrong in that despite choosing in origins to have those
two walk off together, implying that their futures are forever linked, the
programmers felt the need to have them off doing their own thing regardless of
the choices made. I realize that game designers are not psychologists and probably
underestimated just how high the level of connection some people would have to
their past PC’s so it is understandable that they really did not expect the
flood of questions and backlash to these decisions, essentially since many of
us put a lot of our own personality into the character, they are essentially messing
with what many perceive as themselves in the story, and not surprisingly people
learn to identify, relate and care for the wellbeing of what they see as themselves,
even in a fantasy game, but they have kind of either intentionally or accidentally kind
of backed themselves into the position having to resolve the doors they opened back up
or anger a considerable portion of their current fan-base.
I don’t think it has to be over elaborate, they may even
already have had a good idea all along. This could be done through an
appearance of a past LI’s looking to reunite with the warden or a quest being
given to the main protagonist in DA 3 to save the day for both of them, it does
not in my mind necessarily require controlling that character or even seeing
the old PC as the reunion or completion can take place largely behind the
scenes if done right providing the budget or game engine makes an onscreen
appearance difficult or impossible. I for one will wait for 3 to come out
before passing judgment, but they do have to give some resolution, or give
people some control over what ultimately happens to their original characters
and to an extent their chosen LI’s, as I believe if people wanted tragic or sacrificial
outcomes they would have just went with US endings the people who keep asking
for more of the warden are obviously those who went with surviving and I think
kind of wanted that to stick.
Just killing past PC’s off as a few have suggested although
may make a couple of people that are just tired of the subject and want it
dropped happy, I think that solution may make more than a few of us just toss
the trilogy in the garbage and pretend the story past origins never happened. I
think I would do something creative along the lines of what Bill Murray
allegedly did with one of the scripts for Ghostbusters 3 and just mail the
fragments of their games back to them in disappointment, but I am cautiously optimistic
for now that most of us will get suitable closure, and yes I know that that has
been a very overused word but it does apply for many of us who had our origin endings
complicated despite me only really covering the male lead scenarios, as I understand
that there may be just as many stunning reversals in the female protagonist
stories as well.
to give my thoughts into the past protagonists particularly the warden, and how
the series has played out so far. If Bioware was truly finished with both characters
I would have to believe that they would not have been so negligent as to make them mysteriously
vanish as well as have possible LI’s such as Leliana play potentially important roles in
the future plot. It seems kind of shortsighted to be doing so arbitrarily,
unless they are bowing to fan pressure and still have no real idea where they
are going with the plot. Personally I would have been happy if there were only
minor off-screen updates as to the status of the warden and eventually Hawke,
knowing technology limitations and their desire to move on to other characters.
Past LI’s left this possibility as an easy fix since those characters were in
many of our minds tied very closely to our past PC’s and were an excellent way
to update the where are they now type stories without dragging them back into
the story by effectively negating many of our “happy ever after” scenarios.
However DA 2 did a poor job of jumping on this opportunity
in many situations. For example, while those who romanced Morrigan are indeed given
some form of closure, being only left to imagine what happens at the other side
of the portal, and their disappearance in the DA universe making since, thus
still allowing a great deal of how that ending concludes to the imagination, some
of the rest of us were not so lucky and effectively had the stories in our head
revoked. For example once again looking to the Leliana romance, she makes a
small yet very interesting appearance where she reveals she KNEW the warden
and that he/she are dear to her, implying that although they may be still considered
together or that the relationship still exists in some way, that somehow she has
lost track of her significant other,which understandably leaves more than a few people
potentially crying betrayalthat envisioned a walking into the sunset scenario where
maybe the two traveledthe world did the whole buying a farm with white picket fences
and ten children or what have you. The point being that all we are left with are lots of
questions such as is she even looking? Assuming it has been years since they
have last been in contact, what has she even been doing to find the PC this
whole time? If my wife/girlfriend went missing for a considerable amount of
time, I imagine I would probably make it a huge mission to go find out where
she went, not go play politics while waiting around like a goon for her to
return or just moving on to business as usual.
Seeing a past character so closely linked to my old PC doing
their own thing just feels wrong in that despite choosing in origins to have those
two walk off together, implying that their futures are forever linked, the
programmers felt the need to have them off doing their own thing regardless of
the choices made. I realize that game designers are not psychologists and probably
underestimated just how high the level of connection some people would have to
their past PC’s so it is understandable that they really did not expect the
flood of questions and backlash to these decisions, essentially since many of
us put a lot of our own personality into the character, they are essentially messing
with what many perceive as themselves in the story, and not surprisingly people
learn to identify, relate and care for the wellbeing of what they see as themselves,
even in a fantasy game, but they have kind of either intentionally or accidentally kind
of backed themselves into the position having to resolve the doors they opened back up
or anger a considerable portion of their current fan-base.
I don’t think it has to be over elaborate, they may even
already have had a good idea all along. This could be done through an
appearance of a past LI’s looking to reunite with the warden or a quest being
given to the main protagonist in DA 3 to save the day for both of them, it does
not in my mind necessarily require controlling that character or even seeing
the old PC as the reunion or completion can take place largely behind the
scenes if done right providing the budget or game engine makes an onscreen
appearance difficult or impossible. I for one will wait for 3 to come out
before passing judgment, but they do have to give some resolution, or give
people some control over what ultimately happens to their original characters
and to an extent their chosen LI’s, as I believe if people wanted tragic or sacrificial
outcomes they would have just went with US endings the people who keep asking
for more of the warden are obviously those who went with surviving and I think
kind of wanted that to stick.
Just killing past PC’s off as a few have suggested although
may make a couple of people that are just tired of the subject and want it
dropped happy, I think that solution may make more than a few of us just toss
the trilogy in the garbage and pretend the story past origins never happened. I
think I would do something creative along the lines of what Bill Murray
allegedly did with one of the scripts for Ghostbusters 3 and just mail the
fragments of their games back to them in disappointment, but I am cautiously optimistic
for now that most of us will get suitable closure, and yes I know that that has
been a very overused word but it does apply for many of us who had our origin endings
complicated despite me only really covering the male lead scenarios, as I understand
that there may be just as many stunning reversals in the female protagonist
stories as well.
Modifié par Ravnos5392, 13 octobre 2012 - 10:17 .
#483
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 06:40
unbentbuzzkill
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^^agree and is also a very nice read.
#484
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 03:04
Perlicka
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Faerunner wrote...
I want to find out what happened to the Warden and Hawke, and possibly save them and send them on their merry way, but otherwise I don't want them to come back. I would rather they be mentioned in passing, not shown or controlled.
I don't like Hawke as a character and I don't want BioWare to impose their vision on what they think our Wardens should look and sound like. (Especially the new elf design. I will seriously break my game and mail it back to BioWare in pieces if they portray my CE Warden with the hideous new elf design.)
Be carefull what you wish for
I don' t want to know what (officialy) happend to warden or hawk.
My warden is somewhere with alistair doing warden things (and i pretending that(my)hawke never met him), hawke with anders are hiding somewhere and probably ploting against templars(i don't need to know more).
I was dissapointed with seeing old characters in DA2, and i feel bad for ppl who for example romanced leliana or zevran.
If i remember it correctly even non romanced zevran wanted to stay with warden (as a personal jester), so its little strange to met him in kirkwall and there are more of this.. holes and nonsenses, no more please
#485
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 04:27
Rune-Chan
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Personally I thought the Warden's story was resolved at the end of Origins/Awakening. I don't see why people want the story continued, I never felt that there was anything more that needed to be done with them.
I felt Hawke had their story cut off a lot more, as the ending didn't really feel resolved.
Personally though, unless they bring them back as the playable character, I 100% do not want them see either the Warden or Hawke as an NPC, it'd be worse than all of the DA2 import issues put together.
I felt Hawke had their story cut off a lot more, as the ending didn't really feel resolved.
Personally though, unless they bring them back as the playable character, I 100% do not want them see either the Warden or Hawke as an NPC, it'd be worse than all of the DA2 import issues put together.
Modifié par Machines Are Us, 17 octobre 2012 - 04:29 .
#486
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 06:57
rapscallioness
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Okay, new game = new PC. Dragon Age is about Thedas, and all that. Fine, that's beautiful. But if that's the case, could you plz make sure you do each new PC the honor of giving them a full fleshed out game. One where they have the ability to shape the story.
You guys gave the Warden a great story; race options; Origins; great romances; great main quests. The Warden got to go places and do things. They weren't trapped in friggin' Denerim. The Warden got great endings...plural... based on player choice.
Hawke was put in a stranglehold the whole darn game. Hawke's back was essentially used as a bridge to get to the Next Thing. I don't want a PC that's just story fodder.
If you're gonna have a new PC each game, treat them all with the kind if integrity with which you treated the Warden. Don't gimp my PC.
You guys gave the Warden a great story; race options; Origins; great romances; great main quests. The Warden got to go places and do things. They weren't trapped in friggin' Denerim. The Warden got great endings...plural... based on player choice.
Hawke was put in a stranglehold the whole darn game. Hawke's back was essentially used as a bridge to get to the Next Thing. I don't want a PC that's just story fodder.
If you're gonna have a new PC each game, treat them all with the kind if integrity with which you treated the Warden. Don't gimp my PC.
#487
Posté 20 octobre 2012 - 06:47
Palipride47
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rapscallioness wrote...
Okay, new game = new PC. Dragon Age is about Thedas, and all that. Fine, that's beautiful. But if that's the case, could you plz make sure you do each new PC the honor of giving them a full fleshed out game. One where they have the ability to shape the story.
You guys gave the Warden a great story; race options; Origins; great romances; great main quests. The Warden got to go places and do things. They weren't trapped in friggin' Denerim. The Warden got great endings...plural... based on player choice.
Hawke was put in a stranglehold the whole darn game. Hawke's back was essentially used as a bridge to get to the Next Thing . I don't want a PC that's just story fodder.
If you're gonna have a new PC each game, treat them all with the kind if integrity with which you treated the Warden. Don't gimp my PC.
+1 on new protag. I really don't want Hawke or my Warden "showing up."
Hear about them, of course. Cameos of former companions and relations to imported decisions in dialogue and scenarios that aren't "fan service," yes (what the heck is Danyla's kid doing in the Free Marches? How does Andraste's ashes being found-you know, that prophet- lead to a mere sidequest?).
Fan gushes and small world syndrome, no. More retcons, no (I'll suspend some disbelief with Leliana, but I'm pretty sure I handed over Anders to the Templars rights after the prologue battle)
And they really need to fix the Awakening + DLC import bug before they mess with imports from DA2.
