486 réponses à ce sujet

[Giltspur]

David Gaider wrote...

Why do so many people assume otherwise? I imagine because there was a lot of PR for Mass Effect going on at the same time as when Dragon Age was created.

I thought there'd be another Warden game because of Morrigan and the God Baby.  It was playing DAO that made me think there'd be another Warden game.  It wasn't about what Bioware said in the press.  It was about what I imagined based on what was left unanswered in the game.  

And that doesn't mean only DR games would have mattered or that that should be canon.  That just means I figured you guys would do something that had never really been done by any RPG before and tell a full-blooded branching story.  Put a statue of the dead Warden up; let the Utlimate Sacrifice gamer decide how to role play his Orlesian warden in light of the old, dead Warden's shadow looming over him.  Or, let the DR Warden (the one that went with DR instead of US) find out the consequences of his decision after he walks into the unknown with Morrigan.

Maybe that suggestion seems crazy to you, the game writer and designer, because of zot considerations that just come naturally to you.  But that doesn't occur to me the gamer because I don't care about zots.  Zots don't factor into my imaginations and hopes.  So that's why I felt there would be another Warden game. Now, I'm fine with the fact that there won't be.  I've moved on.  Okay, there are days when I've moved on.   And I'd rather have had the Morrigan/Warden thing in DAO without closure than to have some neatly concluded story that was less engaging.  So fine.  I'm okay with a little torment that never really goes away.  But I still think it would be cool to revisit some of those open issues from DAO.  And that leads to...

Brockololly wrote...
If we're the Inquisitor in DA3 and as part of their investigation they need info on Morrigan or Flemeth or the OGB, maybe you can send a letter or chat with the First Warden through one of those palantir mage stone things. Upon doing so, instead of having the Inquisitor travel all the way to some far corner of Thedas, the game just cuts to the Warden in the Eluvian with Morrigan or to the Orlesian Warden Commander to investigate whatever it is the Inquisitor needs. Or if the Inquisitor needs to get the mages/templars on his side as part of the story, then maybe he could send an emissary to Hawke, upon doing so the player takes control of Hawke for a time and Hawke can convince whatever faction they sided with in DA2 to side or not side with the Inquistor.  It would be very interesting to do that kind of role playing different PCs with different motivations within one game.

Narratively having multiple protagonists within one game could be very interesting.

Yeah, that's basically what I'd like to see.  Have the new PC controllable for much of the game but cut back to old characters as appropriate.  No games have really done that, and it seems like it would be really cool.

Modifié par Giltspur, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[CarlSpackler]

David Gaider wrote...

(like how some suggest that importing choices between games is also some kind of common CRPG mechanic when no games other than DA and ME have really even attempted it).

Hey the old QFG series let you import your character from game to game!  (Yes I know, apples and oranges in terms of what was imported.)

As for importing decisions, I have mixed feelings.  For ME I think it was great as it did give the world the flavor of *My Shepard* (regardless of how I felt about ME3s autodialogue etc.)  For DA games however where we don't have the same protagonist, I think Bioware should scrap the import save feature.  It simply seems to me to be a bigger headache than its worth.  I may be in the minority but I'd be happy with a cannon story even if it contradicted my Warden's choices at every turn.  It wouldn't diminish my memories or experiences of playing DAO (or DA2.)

Even so if Bioware is committed to reflecting previous game choices, I'd still say ditch the import feature and instead replace it with some sort of pregame questionaire.

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 19 septembre 2012 - 05:47 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

Personally, I'd have been fine had we proceeded from DAO in the same manner as we did from BG1-- just have a set, canonical point from which DA2 would have started. And it was something we strongly considered.

I still think that was the best available option.

And I also think you should be allowed to change those canonical truths from game to game - so for DA2 Alistair is King, but for DA3 he died killing the Archdemon - that sort of thing.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 19 septembre 2012 - 05:44 .

[Maria Caliban]

David Gaider wrote...

We didn't say it wasn't at the time, but that's likely because we didn't think we needed to, and undoubtedly didn't assume that anyone would take the messaging for Mass Effect to automatically apply to Dragon Age as well. Our mistake, perhaps?

Actually, you did tell people it wasn't. Back when Dragon Age: Origins was still just called Dragon Age, posters asked if it would be a trilogy, and you said you weren't planning on it being a Lord of the Rings type trilogy. When information for ME 1 started trickling out, people asked if DA would be like ME in that it would follow a single storyline, and you said the series weren't the same so they shouldn't expect the same thing.

You've actually been telling people this for years.

[Giltspur]

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

We didn't say it wasn't at the time, but that's likely because we didn't think we needed to, and undoubtedly didn't assume that anyone would take the messaging for Mass Effect to automatically apply to Dragon Age as well. Our mistake, perhaps?

Actually, you did tell people it wasn't. Back when Dragon Age: Origins was still just called Dragon Age, posters asked if it would be a trilogy, and you said you weren't planning on it being a Lord of the Rings type trilogy. When information for ME 1 started trickling out, people asked if DA would be like ME in that it would follow a single storyline, and you said the series weren't the same so they shouldn't expect the same thing.

You've actually been telling people this for years.

Yeah, I remember reading all that.  And I blatantly ignored it.  Here was my reasoning.  Okay, they've said it's not a series about one guy.  So, imagine Dragon Ages I-III are about the Warden and Dragon Ages IV-XVII are not.  Therefore the series is about Thedas and not just the Warden.  I have a philosophy degree.  I understand these things.  Bring on the Warden for Dragon Age II.

[Renmiri1]

Androme wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Androme wrote...
Hey David, I've read something you wrote several months ago regarding our previous player characters, while I've understood (by now, lol) that they won't be returning as playable characters, you mentioned that doesn't mean we won't ever be meeting them again, in what fashion could we expect our former player characters to return?

If they return (and are alive to do so), it would be as an NPC-- and we've said previously that, if we include them, it would be important to do it right and not as an unsatisfying cameo that would just make the very people they're included for unhappy. If we can't do that, then we just won't have them appear. Whether they appear or not, however, the question of their disappearance will need to be addressed.

What we're doing, exactly? That's a question I can't/won't answer, along with so many other questions people will have about DA3 at this point.

Thank you David, very satisfying answer, and pretty much what I expected. I'm glad to see you care to do more than just an unsatisfying cameo, but won't do it at all if not done right. I just hope from the bottom of my heart that you figure out how to do it right, and do it I hope it goes well!

Same here.  

[TMJfin]

I never thought that Dragon Age would be same as Mass Effect, protagonist wise I mean. I rather like the idea that Thedas is the world where all these "adventures" happen to differend people. I think that if the import is used it would be enough to use only the "big things" that makes sense to impact another parts of Thedas, like who's ruling Ferelden and things like that. If you're traveling trough Tevinter I don't think it makes sense that someone comes along and says "Oh, I remember how Hero of Ferelden once got my cat down from tree", If you know what I mean

[nightscrawl]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

And I also think you should be allowed to change those canonical truths from game to game - so for DA2 Alistair is King, but for DA3 he died killing the Archdemon - that sort of thing.

Uh... why?

I wouldn't like this at all. Have a fixed canon that is consistent across all plays or do the whole player choice thing. But having them arbitrarily changing things just because they felt like it seems horribly confusing. What you suggest seems way beyond the realm of retconning. I don't even know what to call that. It would essentially be a different Thedas in every Dragon Age game.

TMJfin wrote...

I never thought that Dragon Age would be same as Mass Effect, protagonist wise I mean. I rather like the idea that Thedas is the world where all these "adventures" happen to differend people. I think that if the import is used it would be enough to use only the "big things" that makes sense to impact another parts of Thedas, like who's ruling Ferelden and things like that. If you're traveling trough Tevinter I don't think it makes sense that someone comes along and says "Oh, I remember how Hero of Ferelden once got my cat down from tree", If you know what I mean

While I agree with this, I don't think it's too far fetched to see someone who encountered the Warden or Hawke somewhere outside of Ferelden or Kirkwall, simply for the reason that Bioware likes to throw in unexpected surprises. To me who didn't read the forums before playing DA2, Anders was a huge surprise. An entire boatload of Qunari, so far from home, can also be considered a "surprise" in that their presence there would be unexpected.

Who knows what those crazy writers will come up with.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:22 .

[Vaneke]

have a small question, think it sorta belongs here.

seeing as you could import your save into DA2, will there be an option to import one into DA3?
and if so, will it have any impact? like will some decisions carry over all the way from origins, ...?

[Maclimes]

nightscrawl wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

And I also think you should be allowed to change those canonical truths from game to game - so for DA2 Alistair is King, but for DA3 he died killing the Archdemon - that sort of thing.

Uh... why?

I wouldn't like this at all. Have a fixed canon that is consistent across all plays or do the whole player choice thing. But having them arbitrarily changing things just because they felt like it seems horribly confusing. What you suggest seems way beyond the realm of retconning. I don't even know what to call that. It would essentially be a different Thedas in every Dragon Age game.

Yeaaaahh.... I'm with you on that. I'm down for there being a "canon ending", but it can't then be a DIFFERENT canon ending later down the line.

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

Vaneke wrote...

have a small question, think it sorta belongs here.

seeing as you could import your save into DA2, will there be an option to import one into DA3?
and if so, will it have any impact? like will some decisions carry over all the way from origins, ...?

From things that I have read, yes you will be able to import your saves from DA:O and  DA:2 to help shore up the storyline.

Also I do think that the warden and Hawke's stories are over.  I don't think they will come back as playable characters.  This has been said over and over by the Dragon Age team.  In fact they stressed this at Pax East.

Modifié par Rpgfantasyplayer, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:45 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Well, is there anyone else there at Bioware that wants to make a Dragon Age where I can play my Warden through an epic saga spanning several games that deals with Flemeth, Morrigan, Alistair, Darkspawn, the Dark City, where I have loyal companions with deep relationships, romantic misunderstandings along the way, decisions that will come back to haunt me, and all that other stuff? Because that's the game I'd rather play.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:14 .

[TMJfin]

nightscrawl wrote...

TMJfin wrote...

I never thought that Dragon Age would be same as Mass Effect, protagonist wise I mean. I rather like the idea that Thedas is the world where all these "adventures" happen to differend people. I think that if the import is used it would be enough to use only the "big things" that makes sense to impact another parts of Thedas, like who's ruling Ferelden and things like that. If you're traveling trough Tevinter I don't think it makes sense that someone comes along and says "Oh, I remember how Hero of Ferelden once got my cat down from tree", If you know what I mean

While I agree with this, I don't think it's too far fetched to see someone who encountered the Warden or Hawke somewhere outside of Ferelden or Kirkwall, simply for the reason that Bioware likes to throw in unexpected surprises. To me who didn't read the forums before playing DA2, Anders was a huge surprise. An entire boatload of Qunari, so far from home, can also be considered a "surprise" in that their presence there would be unexpected.

Who knows what those crazy writers will come up with.

I didn't mean that there shouldn't be little encounters like that and I don't even mind if they are far fetched. What I meant was that if it takes too much time to just try to put them in game, I could live without them I thought that Sophia Dryden in DA2 was little out of place, but it was still nice to see her.

I try to keep posts in minimum because I'm always afraid that what I'm trying to say doesn't come out right. English is not my first language and it's a strecth to even call it my second one, so it's hard to put my thoughts in words

[Jerrybnsn]

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

We didn't say it wasn't at the time, but that's likely because we didn't think we needed to, and undoubtedly didn't assume that anyone would take the messaging for Mass Effect to automatically apply to Dragon Age as well. Our mistake, perhaps?

Actually, you did tell people it wasn't. Back when Dragon Age: Origins was still just called Dragon Age, posters asked if it would be a trilogy, and you said you weren't planning on it being a Lord of the Rings type trilogy. When information for ME 1 started trickling out, people asked if DA would be like ME in that it would follow a single storyline, and you said the series weren't the same so they shouldn't expect the same thing.

You've actually been telling people this for years.

Actually, they wouldn't even confirm that there was going to be another game at all.  When Awakenings came out everyone started calling it Dragon Age II at first.  So there was a lot of assuming that the Dragon Age was going to be some epic saga, not just a smaller trilogy.

[Persephone]

Grizzly46 wrote...

A better solution would be to have a choice between which character you want to play in DA3, turning the other character into an NPC by default, recruitable or not. That way, the god-child could become either a 'loyalty mission' for an NPC Warden, or a main mission for a PC Warden.

Just a thought though. I bet all these things have already been adressed, considering that the game has already been in development for two years.

Oooooooooooooooh, I would love that!

[Gemini1179]

I can say that personally, I care more about my character that I create and that I watch and help evolve rather than the 'world'.

Now, the really clever thing they could do, and would be a coup de grace, would be to have half the game played with Hawke, and the other half with the Warden (or Warden stand-in) and then have them come together in the end to tear **** up big time.

Modifié par Gemini1179, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:48 .

[Persephone]

David Gaider wrote...

Androme wrote...
Hey David, I've read something you wrote several months ago regarding our previous player characters, while I've understood (by now, lol) that they won't be returning as playable characters, you mentioned that doesn't mean we won't ever be meeting them again, in what fashion could we expect our former player characters to return?

If they return (and are alive to do so), it would be as an NPC-- and we've said previously that, if we include them, it would be important to do it right and not as an unsatisfying cameo that would just make the very people they're included for unhappy. If we can't do that, then we just won't have them appear. Whether they appear or not, however, the question of their disappearance will need to be addressed.

What we're doing, exactly? That's a question I can't/won't answer, along with so many other questions people will have about DA3 at this point.

I can just see all the devs browsing though DA Nexus to get as many modded Hawkes and Wardens covered as they can.......

Modifié par Persephone, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:58 .

[Persephone]

Gemini1179 wrote...

I can say that personally, I care more about my character that I create and that I watch and help evolve rather than the 'world'.

Now, the really clever thing they could do, and would be a coup de grace, would be to have half the game played with Hawke, and the other half with the Warden (or Warden stand-in) and then have them come together in the end to tear **** up big time.

Game Of Thrones the RPG did that....it made you choose who should be the antagonist in the final chapter....I had grown fond of both of them and it took me minutes to pick one.....

Great storytelling, that. Not since Virmire has a choice been this personal to me. (In a game)

[jackofalltrades456]

All they need to do is get Leliana's bony butt back to my Warden and I'll be satisfied.

I don't care about Hawke though...

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:04 .

[wright1978]

Have to say i really appreciate the continuity of the universe provided by the import feature and think it is a strength that should be tweaked and improved and definitely not scrapped.

I would love to see my Hawke and Warden but i willingly accept it may not be feasible and that providing satisfying closure to their unfinished story stand is possible without it.

[Fawx9]

The only thing I don't really like about no more warden is that you're continuing to use characters from his story to further the story of Thedas.

I understand that an Alistar made king is kinda hard to keep out of the game, but why are characters that your warden went off adventuring with suddenly 'left behind' and return to fufill a different character role.

Had I wanted Leliana to return to the bard life I would have told her that she was free to go. Instead I'm left wondering why my warden left her and what he's doing while she doing whatever random role she is now in.

Modifié par Fawx9, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:29 .

[Anny78]

David Gaider wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...
Romance with Morrigan is not canon.

The Old God Baby however, is. 

If you mean the so-called "Old God Baby" will exist, regardless of whether the player took the Dark Ritual decision in DAO or not-- I can categorically say that this assumption is incorrect.

Maybe there's just a misunderstanding of what is canon and what is not, Idk. E.g. Alistair - king(alone/with Anora/with the Warden)/Warden/exile/dead are the possible outcomes for him in DA:O and they all can be imported into DA2. New/fresh DA2 game (without import from DA:O) has 3 possible choices in that matter Alistair is king/is king with Anora/exile (I think) and in the last stories/comics with/about Alistair is he king (not given who's his wife). - So what is canon and what not? (And then there's the issue with returning dead characters.) *shrug* So e.g. the "Old God Baby* is not canon, but it could be, if "the story demands it" (see Anders, Leliana).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

We didn't say it wasn't at the time, but that's likely because we didn't think we needed to, and undoubtedly didn't assume that anyone would take the messaging for Mass Effect to automatically apply to Dragon Age as well. Our mistake, perhaps?

Actually, you did tell people it wasn't. Back when Dragon Age: Origins was still just called Dragon Age, posters asked if it would be a trilogy, and you said you weren't planning on it being a Lord of the Rings type trilogy. When information for ME 1 started trickling out, people asked if DA would be like ME in that it would follow a single storyline, and you said the series weren't the same so they shouldn't expect the same thing.

You've actually been telling people this for years.

Maria's right.  BioWare's been clear and consistent on this.

Even if you hadn't, your point would still stand.  Assuming a trilogy in the absence of any evidence for a trilogy is lunacy.  But assuming a trilogy in the face of clear and consistent denials of a trilogy is wilful lunacy.

[Teddie Sage]

So... OGB like the fans call Morrigan's child could or couldn't be a playable character? *shrugs* Nah, I'd rather not have it in my game, unless it got retconned that Morrigan lived and found a way to absorb the old god in her, somehow. Chances are the child won't appear in the sequel at all unless you romanced and did the Dark Ritual.