486 réponses à ce sujet

[jds1bio]

This is a very interesting thread. It seems most people here are currently concerned about the story threads continuing from previous DA games.

Well, as much as I'd like those stories to continue, I hope there is more of a focus on gameplay this time around. With DA2, as good as the talent tree and gameplay was "in-the-moment" of combat, most of it was kept too separate from both the game-world's environment (i.e. blood mage) and the base player stats relationship with armor and weapons. I'd like the RPG gameplay to fit the world better.

And if it continues to be a party-based system, I'd like the party-flexibility aspect to be more accessible. As an example, one hypothetical scenario I'd like to be able to minimize through most regular combat encounters would be "I don't have a healer, I'm screwed!" without having to buff my characters with ever-rotating racks of rings, belts, magic pants, etc.

But if the Warden and/or Hawke made surprise appearances for a story thread or two, I wouldn't complain. I just hope people are looking for more from this game than just a continuation of a choose-your-own-adventure.

[addiction21]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Maria's right.  BioWare's been clear and consistent on this.

Even if you hadn't, your point would still stand.  Assuming a trilogy in the absence of any evidence for a trilogy is lunacy.  But assuming a trilogy in the face of clear and consistent denials of a trilogy is wilful lunacy.

But everything is a trilogy.

Willful lunacy... the best description of the internet I have ever seen.

Modifié par addiction21, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:18 .

[Momiji.mii]

I really hope that the Warden and Hawke will be back as NPCs one day! I loved both characters dearly and would love to see what happened to them. Just imagining Miyu Amell and Gabriel Hawke showing up together for a quest, well I think I might just faint with happiness if that ever happened.

But I'm glad that Bioware wants to do it right or not at all. That's the right way to handle it!

[Heimdall]

Giltspur wrote...

Yeah, that's basically what I'd like to see.  Have the new PC controllable for much of the game but cut back to old characters as appropriate.  No games have really done that, and it seems like it would be really cool.

I've mentioned a similar idea before, though in my version I think it critical to make sure Hawke and the Warden don't steal the spotlight from the Inquisitor.  This is his/her game afterall.

I think or hope part of the Inquisitor's work will involve retracing the previous protagonist's footsteps prior to their disappearance.  Perhaps this will take the Inquisitor to a lyrium pool imprinted with the Warden/Hawke's memories (Not that it has to be that but magic allowing the viewing of a past event is hardly unheard of in Dragon Age).

The Inquisitor then relives the Warden's or Hawke's memories (Providing justification for adding the xp you earn playing as the previous protagonists when you resume control of the Inquisitor) and then you get a character creator and playable segment.

The character creator would come with a number of preset appearances and character builds along with full character leveling and appearance options for those that would like to spend the time.

The only thing I'm unsure how to get around is the Warden's voice...

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

If they return (and are alive to do so), it would be as an NPC-- and we've said previously that, if we include them, it would be important to do it right and not as an unsatisfying cameo that would just make the very people they're included for unhappy. If we can't do that, then we just won't have them appear. Whether they appear or not, however, the question of their disappearance will need to be addressed.

What we're doing, exactly? That's a question I can't/won't answer, along with so many other questions people will have about DA3 at this point.

That's good, since as far as I['m concerned, their diasappearance is the only real "loose end" I have with them.  

DAO did a good job of wrapping up my Warden's storyline, and I can imagine what they're going, be it wandering around having adventures with Leliana, or living life beyond the Eluvian with Morrigan,  Or simply being off Warden-ing somewhere.  At least until the disappearance.

Hawke's a slightly different case, of course.  But once the disappearance is resolved, I'd be pretty content that the Champion's story is fully told too.

I do't especially need cameos from either to know I'm in Thedas.

[Heimdall]

iakus wrote...

Hawke's a slightly different case, of course.  But once the disappearance is resolved, I'd be pretty content that the Champion's story is fully told too.

Sometimes I really wish they went through with that DA2 expansion.  Hawke just feels so... unresolved.

[Solmanian]

I think people are still very much upset about the loss of the warden. It may have been an anonymous, mute charecter, but that just allowed each player to make it his own. And while I whole heartedly agree that developers shouldn't try to cater to any demand fans dish out (adn there are many) , and be free to present their vision (which is why we loved them to begin with), I also think that if a certain demand is so unanimous than the fans deserve a better answer than: "no. nope. not gonna happen.". If there is a demand, bioware should aim to fulfill to best of their abilities. I'm not trying to sound spoiled; it's simple bussiness practice: give the people what they want. Nothing will boost the sales better, or bring back the DA2 dissapointees like anouncing the return of the warden. It doesn't even have to be in DA3, it can be in some bastard child of the franchise like some "forgotten tales".

I mean, think how ME would look if the reapers problem was simply resolved in the first game. Actually, it would be interesting what shepard do without the reapers dogging him for three games. NVM, put it on the suggestions for ME4.

P.s.
oh oh oh, I know! An RTS or TBS of warden vs Darkspawn!

Modifié par Solmanian, 19 septembre 2012 - 11:14 .

[Heimdall]

Solmanian wrote...

I think people are still very much upset about the loss of the warden. It may have been an anonymous, mute charecter, but that just allowed each player to make it his own. And while I whole heartedly agree that developers shouldn't try to cater to any demand fans dish out (adn there are many) , and be free to present their vision (which is why we loved them to begin with), I also think that if a certain demand is so unanimous than the fans deserve a better answer than: "no. nope. not gonna happen.". If there is a demand, bioware should aim to fulfill to best of their abilities. I'm not trying to sound spoiled; it's simple bussiness practice: give the people what they want. Nothing will boost the sales better, or bring back the DA2 dissapointees like anouncing the return of the warden. It doesn't even have to be in DA3, it can be in some bastard child of the franchise like some "forgotten tales".

You know, I really don't understand the idea that they "lost" the Warden.  The Warden was the hero who stopped the blight and engineered for that story.  Bioware NEVER said that Dragon Age would be Mass Effect.  I just don't get this attitude as if the Warden's story was left at a cliffhanger <_<

Besides, it's far from a unanimous desire.  I for one much prefer the chance to craft a new character in a world my previous characters helped shape.

[Heimdall]

Solmanian wrote...

I mean, think how ME would look if the reapers problem was simply resolved in the first game. Actually, it would be interesting what shepard do without the reapers dogging him for three games. NVM, put it on the suggestions for ME4.

 Hardly the same situation.  The Warden destroyed the Blight in DA:O.  Shepard only discovered the threat in Mass Effect.  It would be as if the Warden had only collapsed the biggest entrance to the Deep Roads as a delaying tactic rather than killed the Archdemon.

Killing the Reapers in one game might have been better for all we know.  I prefer a lot of things about the last two games but narratively I still prefer ME1.   I felt like they were grasping at straws to come up with a villain in ME2 and there are more complaints about ME3 than I care to recite..

[Fawx9]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

I think people are still very much upset about the loss of the warden. It may have been an anonymous, mute charecter, but that just allowed each player to make it his own. And while I whole heartedly agree that developers shouldn't try to cater to any demand fans dish out (adn there are many) , and be free to present their vision (which is why we loved them to begin with), I also think that if a certain demand is so unanimous than the fans deserve a better answer than: "no. nope. not gonna happen.". If there is a demand, bioware should aim to fulfill to best of their abilities. I'm not trying to sound spoiled; it's simple bussiness practice: give the people what they want. Nothing will boost the sales better, or bring back the DA2 dissapointees like anouncing the return of the warden. It doesn't even have to be in DA3, it can be in some bastard child of the franchise like some "forgotten tales".

You know, I really don't understand the idea that they "lost" the Warden.  The Warden was the hero who stopped the blight and engineered for that story.  Bioware NEVER said that Dragon Age would be Mass Effect.  I just don't get this attitude as if the Warden's story was left at a cliffhanger <_<

Besides, it's far from a unanimous desire.  I for one much prefer the chance to craft a new character in a world my previous characters helped shape.

I think a lot had to do with the fact that being a warden just felt special. The world around us built up their past as great knights who would defend others at ther own cost. That they rise up during the darkest hours to push back the things that a king's army could not. That even though their order may be failing in certain lands, those left still stand to see their duty through.

That kind of awe factor plus the fact that its the first character we got in this univerese made them special.

At the end of origins however, I could have seen them letting the character go*. But because the reused chacaters from Origins that many wardens were supposed to be travelling with and instead went with a mysterious dissapearing act the player no longer has their own headcanon about what his past characeter is up to. He needed to remake it and is left with more questions than answers as to what made the warden dissapear.

I know DA:O possibly had too many endings where different companions or warden's were out doing certain things but in a perfect world I wish they could have left the players choice to go adventuring with character x alone. It would have made the transition to any new MC easier as you have no doubts as to what YOUR warden and companion may be up to.

I'd like to also point out that the developers a huge uphill battle. They came out of the gate with a character that was hard to match. I mean it's like trying to find somone cooler than a Specter in the ME galaxy. The inquisitor has big shoes to fill, though would get bonus points if one of his attacks involved fluffy pillows. **

*I totaly realize that there is a certain witch that has a lot of plot lines that feel left dangling that also causes people to want to see the warden come back, but I felt that enough people have pointed that out.

**I am in no way suggesting that BW put in large amounts of refernces to monty python skits. To claim I am doing so would just be silly. I mean how many jokes could you possibly make when referencing monty python about a character and faction of inquisitors.

Modifié par Fawx9, 19 septembre 2012 - 11:50 .

[Reaverwind]

Lord Aesir wrote...

You know, I really don't understand the idea that they "lost" the Warden.  The Warden was the hero who stopped the blight and engineered for that story. 

I think this is a result of the retconning done by Awakening, and the extremely unsatisfying ending. 

[Jerrybnsn]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Maria's right.  BioWare's been clear and consistent on this.

Even if you hadn't, your point would still stand.  Assuming a trilogy in the absence of any evidence for a trilogy is lunacy.  But assuming a trilogy in the face of clear and consistent denials of a trilogy is wilful lunacy.

 A sequel is a continuation of a main character or story.  A trilogy is a story told over three episodes.  A saga is a story told over two or more episodes.  Considering that Origins ended with a lot of possiblities for the Warden and other characters, it was a pretty safe assumtion to think that the DA story of the Darkspawn, Flemeth, Morrigan, the Black City would overarch into more games....not a trilogy maybe, but something bigger....an epic saga of multiple games that has never been seen before in the gaming industry.

But we were wrong.  It's just a series with a set of different stories plopped down in a template called the Dragon Age. Not very epic at all.  Ha, ha.  Boy do I feel silly.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 septembre 2012 - 01:34 .

[YohkoOhno]

It was epic. You got enough story in one game. The game ended, you saved Ferelden. There were no real danglers, with the exception of "what happened to Morrigan", the game ended on a perfect note.

Why so many people complained that the story "wasn't over" was beyond me. If Bioware went bankrupt or DAO bombed and sequels were cancelled, the game ended on a perfect note!

[Fawx9]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Maria's right.  BioWare's been clear and consistent on this.

Even if you hadn't, your point would still stand.  Assuming a trilogy in the absence of any evidence for a trilogy is lunacy.  But assuming a trilogy in the face of clear and consistent denials of a trilogy is wilful lunacy.

 A sequel is a continuation of a main character or story.  A trilogy is a story told over three episodes.  A saga is a story told over four or more episodes.  Considering that Origins ended with a lot of possiblities for the Warden and other characters, it was a pretty safe assumtion to think that the DA story of the Darkspawn, Flemeth, Morrigan, the Black City would overarch over....not a trilogy, but something bigger....an epic saga.

But we were wrong.  It's just a series with a set of different stories plopped down in a template called the Dragon Age. Not very epic at all.  Ha, ha.  Boy do I feel silly.

Although I never read the originals, Theives' World seems to be a good basis for what BW might be trying to do with Dragon Age. It would be a cool concept to explore in a game univerese, where you have all of these somewhat seperate yet interracting stories going on in the world, that may or may not come together in one big arc at the end.

[Heimdall]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
 A sequel is a continuation of a main character or story.  A trilogy is a story told over three episodes.  A saga is a story told over four or more episodes.  Considering that Origins ended with a lot of possiblities for the Warden and other characters, it was a pretty safe assumtion to think that the DA story of the Darkspawn, Flemeth, Morrigan, the Black City would overarch into more games....not a trilogy, but something bigger....an epic saga that has never been seen before in the gaming industry.

But we were wrong.  It's just a series with a set of different stories plopped down in a template called the Dragon Age. Not very epic at all.  Ha, ha.  Boy do I feel silly.

The only safe assumption I felt I could make given the variety of endings in Origins was that a direct sequel was highly unlikely.  Am I the only one that remembers the rage when people were complaining about their Warden getting Shanghaied into the job of Warden commander when they were supposed to be off in Antiva with Zevran or something?  

The only safe option is to disassociate the series from the Warden at that point.  Let the players imagine the Warden gets their epilogue while Hawke or someone else takes the spotlight.  Then players start complaining about it not making sense why their Warden wouldn't come and save the day, hence, the Warden disappeared and is unreachable.<_<

Not ideal, but there was never a snowball's chance in hell of the disparate endings of DA:O being brought together smoothly enough to prevent a mass outpouring of rage on these very forums.  Disparate ending make direct sequels more difficult, not more likely.  At least not without creating a canon.

[Jerrybnsn]

YohkoOhno wrote...

It was epic. You got enough story in one game. The game ended, you saved Ferelden. There were no real danglers, with the exception of "what happened to Morrigan", the game ended on a perfect note.

Why so many people complained that the story "wasn't over" was beyond me. If Bioware went bankrupt or DAO bombed and sequels were cancelled, the game ended on a perfect note!

Origins ended on high note!  I thought it was perfect too.  But there was still a lot of doors being open while you were experiencing the perfect ending....to that episode.  Let the Saga begin.

I bet you thought Star Wars ending was the perfect ending too with everyone and the wookie recieving medals and the crowds cheering.  No need to make another movie about that, they defeated the Blight, er I mean the Empire,....

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 septembre 2012 - 12:17 .

[Heimdall]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

YohkoOhno wrote...

It was epic. You got enough story in one game. The game ended, you saved Ferelden. There were no real danglers, with the exception of "what happened to Morrigan", the game ended on a perfect note.

Why so many people complained that the story "wasn't over" was beyond me. If Bioware went bankrupt or DAO bombed and sequels were cancelled, the game ended on a perfect note!

Origins ended on high note!  I thought it was perfect too.  But there was still a lot of doors being open while you were experiencing the perfect ending....to that episode.  Let the Saga begin.

I bet you thought Star Wars ending was the perfect ending too with everyone and the wookie recieving medals and the crowds cheering.  No need to make another movie about that, they defeated the Blight, er I mean the Empire,....

Great, so have a new protagonist means it can't be a saga because...

[Jerrybnsn]

Fawx9 wrote...


Although I never read the originals, Theives' World seems to be a good basis for what BW might be trying to do with Dragon Age. It would be a cool concept to explore in a game univerese, where you have all of these somewhat seperate yet interracting stories going on in the world, that may or may not come together in one big arc at the end.

I have kept hoping that as well, but every time we get on these threads to talk about that and want to see returning characters, we get posters saying "Nope!  Not going to happen!  I don't want my Warden back or any returning characters!"  But the truth is, they are right on what the series is.

And David Gaider actually came out and said the series isn't a saga with an overarching storyline earlier in this thread, if you go back a few more pages. 

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 septembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Great, so have a new protagonist means it can't be a saga because...

A saga is all about story told over many stories.  A trilogy is actually a saga.  James Bond movies are not Sagas but a series.   Anyway,  Dragon Age is about the World, not one overarching story as David Gaider explained it earlier.  Which I have now admitted today that I was wrong in thinking that DA was a saga.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 septembre 2012 - 12:39 .

[addiction21]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Great, so have a new protagonist means it can't be a saga because...

A saga is all about story told over many stories.  A trilogy is actually a saga.  James Bond movies are not Sagas but a series.   Anyway,  Dragon Age is about the World, not one overarching story as David Gaider explained it earlier.  Which I have now admitted today that I was wrong in thinking that DA was a saga.

So it being about the world of Thedas means there cannot be a overarching story?

[Jerrybnsn]

addiction21 wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Great, so have a new protagonist means it can't be a saga because...

A saga is all about story told over many stories.  A trilogy is actually a saga.  James Bond movies are not Sagas but a series.   Anyway,  Dragon Age is about the World, not one overarching story as David Gaider explained it earlier.  Which I have now admitted today that I was wrong in thinking that DA was a saga.

So it being about the world of Thedas means there cannot be a overarching story?

The world of Thedas and the Dragon Age that it is in is just the backdrop to different stories that are played out, but there is no single story as a saga to tie them together.  A Saga can be composed of a trilogy, or tetrology/Quadrilogy 4, Pentalogy 5,  Hexology 6,....but they are all one story told in different accounts/episodes/novels/games

Here's is David Gaider's direct quote "It's not a single story. Mass Effect was announced as a trilogy from the beginning-- a single story spanning three games. Dragon Age was not, nor was it ever intended to be."

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 septembre 2012 - 01:12 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Think of it this way. You want to write a series of stories about the United States in the Victorian Age. You don't want it to be about one set protagonists or one set story that carries on from one book to the next until it is resolved, but, instead have different stories that are independent of each other, with different heroes and heroines each time but all in the United States and all in the Victorian time period. That is all that the Dragon Age series is.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 septembre 2012 - 01:27 .

[Maria Caliban]

toddx77 wrote...

Is bioware really done with the warden and hawke?

No.

[Cylan Cooper]

Maria Caliban wrote...

toddx77 wrote...

Is bioware really done with the warden and hawke?

No.

Your posts always remind me of those days before DA:O was released, where everyone would ask questions of varying intelligence, and the devs wouldn't reply much or chose to ignore the person, and along would come Maria Caliban with answers that were (mostly) correct!

[addiction21]

So there can not be some single overall story being told thru smaller individual stories? Does it have to be a "olgy"?

Here is that qoute in its entirety.

David Gaider wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Thank you for responding to my posting.  But, while I did recognize that Dragon Age was a series, it not being connected by a single hero or set characters carrying out a single overarching story doesn't make the series an epic or a saga.  (I just found out that I was pushing the redundancy button heavy in that epic and saga both mean the same thing--a long story)

So could you answer the question of whether or not the Dragon Age series was suppose to be a saga? 

It's not a single story. Mass Effect was announced as a trilogy from the beginning-- a single story spanning three games. Dragon Age was not, nor was it ever intended to be (if it was, we probably wouldn't have allowed the protagainst to die or had so many "walk into the sunset" type epilogues). We didn't say it wasn't at the time, but that's likely because we didn't think we needed to, and undoubtedly didn't assume that anyone would take the messaging for Mass Effect to automatically apply to Dragon Age as well. Our mistake, perhaps?

Yes, there are plot threads remaining from both DAO and DA2 which will carry forward, but they do not require a single protaganist to resolve. I get that some people like the idea of it doing so, but there's a difference between wanting it and it having some kind of literary/gaming necessity.

Reading the full qoute in the context it was ment to be taken in it is clear there was never a intent to make a "saga" or some over all story but that changed. There is a overeaching story to be told but those on the DragonAge team have decided to tell it thru different stories.

A Song of FIre and Ice has a similar approach and so did Tom Clancy is hit own right.

The intention for all the stories of Thedas to center around a single charcter has been clear. Just because a larger story then any single charcter has evolved does not mean it can not be a sage or that story can not exist.

Luke in a New Hope.
Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back.
Leia in Return of the Jedi.

That overall story can still be told it would just need to be molded to those characters. Of course that was never the intended purpose of that story.

That is just my ramblings. DA:O taken by itself (as I experianced it) there is nothing more to the world then the Blight. Takening DA2 and all the books and everything else it becomes clear there is a overall story but it is not dependent on a single person or character.