486 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Cylanthegreat wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

toddx77 wrote...

Is bioware really done with the warden and hawke?

No.

Your posts always remind me of those days before DA:O was released, where everyone would ask questions of varying intelligence, and the devs wouldn't reply much or chose to ignore the person, and along would come Maria Caliban with answers that were (mostly) correct!

Thank you.

[Jerrybnsn]

addiction21 wrote...


Here is that qoute in its entirety.

David Gaider wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...


So could you answer the question of whether or not the Dragon Age series was suppose to be a saga? 

It's not a single story. Mass Effect was announced as a trilogy from the beginning-- a single story spanning three games. Dragon Age was not, nor was it ever intended to be (if it was, we probably wouldn't have allowed the protagainst to die or had so many "walk into the sunset" type epilogues). We didn't say it wasn't at the time, but that's likely because we didn't think we needed to, and undoubtedly didn't assume that anyone would take the messaging for Mass Effect to automatically apply to Dragon Age as well. Our mistake, perhaps?

Yes, there are plot threads remaining from both DAO and DA2 which will carry forward, but they do not require a single protaganist to resolve. I get that some people like the idea of it doing so, but there's a difference between wanting it and it having some kind of literary/gaming necessity.

Reading the full qoute in the context it was ment to be taken in it is clear there was never a intent to make a "saga" or some over all story but that changed. There is a overeaching story to be told but those on the DragonAge team have decided to tell it thru different stories.


The intention for all the stories of Thedas to center around a single charcter has been clear. Just because a larger story then any single charcter has evolved does not mean it can not be a sage or that story can not exist.

.

He said the Dragon Age series is not a single story; a saga.  How do you get that he also said that it has now been changed to be a saga? He may have is own saga going on in his books that you mention, but it sure hasn't been translated to the games.  The series of DA games are not playing out as a saga and that is the problem.  I think that is why there are so many people requesting the return of their wardens and a majority of the characters from Origins,   because they want this to be an epic saga.  They  don't know what the overarching story is here, so they want to bring forth the main characters to get back to the Origins' "loose threads".

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:17 .

[Heimdall]

He also said that many plot threads were ongoing. I'm just saying that to treat Dragon Age as a series of stories set in Thedas but each an island to itself would be misleading. I don' think its so clear cut.

[Jerrybnsn]

Lord Aesir wrote...

He also said that many plot threads were ongoing. I'm just saying that to treat Dragon Age as a series of stories set in Thedas but each an island to itself would be misleading. I don' think its so clear cut.

If you want to bring a story through an arc over a series of works, you need a plot to guide you,  or if you want to be all artistic and hide the plot for awhile (Six Sense) and reveal it later, you need some main characters to guide the saga along with a false plot.   But how are you going to make the people understand they are in a saga if you don't have a direct plot for them to visualize, but just seperate stories that don't seem connected?  Wait.  I just realized that was DA2's problem.  It was a set of disjointed stories, not tied together by a plot.

Oh, oh.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:29 .

[addiction21]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

He said the Dragon Age series is not a single story; a saga.  How do you get that he also said that it has now been changed to be a saga? He may have is own saga going on in his books that you mention, but it sure hasn't been translated to the games.  The series of DA games are not playing out as a saga and that is the problem.  I think that is why there are so many people requesting the return of their wardens and a majority of the characters from Origins,   because they want this to be an epic saga.  They  don't know what the overarching story is here, so they want to bring forth the main characters to get back to the Origins' "loose threads".

And it is not a single story. There is a larger story being told thru smaller seperate stories. Just because the stories are not following a specific charcter thruout the games does not mean there is not a larger story being told.

There is the story of Thedas during the "Dragon Age"
Then there is the story of the "Warden. Hero of Feralden"
There is also the story of the "Champion of Kirkwall"
The Hero and Champion are used to paint the larger tapestry of the Dragon Age.

P.S.
Even a ignorant rooster like myself knows that a "single story" =/= saga

Saga is a specific litery term and these games were clearly never intended to follow it.

Modifié par addiction21, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:34 .

[JamieCOTC]

From what I understand the Warden's story is over, but there have been hints that we may see him or her in future games, though I wouldn't hold my breath. Hake's story is to be concluded, but not in any game.

[addiction21]

JamieCOTC wrote...

From what I understand the Warden's story is over, but there have been hints that we may see him or her in future games, though I wouldn't hold my breath. Hake's story is to be concluded, but not in any game.

I would not mind seeing either "my" warden or "my" Hawke in a future game but I am content. I am happy with their lives after the games not being expanded on. It allows me to headcannon what they are off doing.

[Allan Schumacher]

Splitting hairs over whether or not it is a "saga" or a "series" in their very literal (rather than colloquial) usage is kind of distracting the thread, isn't it?

[Heimdall]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

He also said that many plot threads were ongoing. I'm just saying that to treat Dragon Age as a series of stories set in Thedas but each an island to itself would be misleading. I don' think its so clear cut.

If you want to bring a story through an arc over a series of works, you need a plot to guide you,  or if you want to be all artistic and hide the plot for awhile (Six Sense) and reveal it later, you need some main characters to guide the saga along with a false plot.   But how are you going to make the people understand they are in a saga if you don't have a direct plot for them to visualize, but just seperate stories that don't seem connected?  Wait.  I just realized that was DA2's problem.  It was a set of disjointed stories, not tied together by a plot.

Oh, oh.

Using what you describe, it sounds like we have several protagonists leading us through several plots, none of which are false btw.  I'm just saying that to say that there are no plot thread continuations between the games is flat out incorrect.  I never made any claims to a grand overarching master plan.The word saga is more flexible than you imply at any rate.  This saga is about the history of the Dragon Age, botany one man.

[blueumi]

i don't care that it was a new hero
what i hate is that bioware changed everything it might as well have been a new game with a new title because people should get a game that is something like the first

they changed the art style they changed the inventory they changed how you interact with the party members

they changed the tone from a healthy mixture of humor and dark undertones to a game that is dark for almost the entirety

they changed the combat to mindless action

they dumbed the game down they took out all strategy

the grey wardens don't do anything much at all

what was left that even resembled dragon age

change can be good but change just for the sake of it is not

if it has a 2 on the end of the title it should at least have improved ideas from the first some of the changes made were good but they changed EVERYTHING

it means gamers have no idea what the game will be like which back fires as i'm sure bioware now see

the mage war was a good idea but it was not set up well when they did not set up what our goal was

by the time we first see meredith we had just been making money in the deep roads and dealing with the arishok

for gods sake the cinematic at the title screen only shows male hawke fighting the arishok which lead me to believe he was the end boss

[Renmiri1]

blueumi wrote...

MOD EDIT: No need to ridicule the poster with a disparaging image.  Thanks

- Allan

Pessimistic much ?

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 20 septembre 2012 - 09:54 .

[blueumi]

Renmiri1 wrote...

blueumi wrote...

- MOD EDIT: Removed Picture

Pessimistic much ?

no it's what went wrong and why dragon age 1 sold 3 times as much as dragon age 2 did

i want bioware to do well i'm a fan i even play the old republic and will keep giving bioware my money but if you think i'm going to make out that dragon age 2 did better then it did then your wrong

a real fan is not a yes man

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 20 septembre 2012 - 09:54 .

[Renmiri1]

I liked DA2 better than I liked DAO

[blueumi]

Renmiri1 wrote...

I liked DA2 better than I liked DAO

i liked things in it as well but i think dragon age 1 was better each their own

I just think it was silly to change everything and I really think that is why it did not sell well

I like dragon age and I am still a bioware fan they make good games

Modifié par blueumi, 20 septembre 2012 - 03:57 .

[Renmiri1]

Why not concentrate on the positive then ?

You know, constructive criticism ?

[LadyWench]

Warden doesn't have to be a major character or a playable one. Heck, with the retcon they did for the elves, I think people who did that DA:O race would have to "redo" an imported warden a la ME3 or something if they wanted him/her to look quite right. Warden was also not fully voiced like Hawke, so there's that...

That being said, I DO want to know where both of them disappeared to. If, like it has been suggested by others on this thread, the "Inquisitor" follows retraces of their travels (even post-epilogue journeys we don't yet know about) to track them down or figure something out, that could be pretty sweet. Seek out some of their old companions as they obviously did with Varric in DA2. My Warden(s) neither died in the Blight nor went into the Eluvian, so that's a big fat question mark and frankly I liked my Hawke(s), too.

I need closure!!! I'm still not thrilled with the idea from the comics that Alistair would have been traveling anywhere without his Warden queen, for example, but I will give them a pass on that if I can get some fanservice. Yes to imported saves! XD

[mazariamonti]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Why not concentrate on the positive then ?

You know, constructive criticism ?

There are things in DA2 that were great, the party banter was fantastic, the combat for the mage was improved about a million times, it's actually fun to play as a mage in DA2, most of the characters were amazing, there are some parts that are actually laugh out loud funny. The crafting system is better i guess. But for the most part it's worse than it's predecessor in almost every way. in my opinion of course. 

[daffl5]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I think they will only appear indirectly. A personal theory/wish of mine is that the Inquisitor will follow where Hawke and the Warden tread and we'll be able to control one or both of them in flashbacks.


That is such a good idea. but i dont care about hawke i want my WARDEN!

[philippe willaume]

David Gaider wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...
People may throw out DAA and Zombie Warden or Generic Orlesian Warden as an example, but DAA was an expansion and not a full fledged game. To be honest, I don't think Zombie Warden should ever have been allowed: import to recognize the player's choice with respect to the king/queen and possibly something relating to Howe, and then force you to make a new character. But again, it was an expansion, so I can see why the allowance was made.

Yeah, the possible ret-conning of the DAO protaganist's death for the Awakening expansion was less than ideal-- and more related to a technical limitation than any kind of narrative intent. If someone wanted to play their DAO character in the expansion, then they were free to do so and make up whatever reasoning they wanted. That was just for the expansion's tale, and not intended to have larger implications.

Personally, I'd have been fine had we proceeded from DAO in the same manner as we did from BG1-- just have a set, canonical point from which DA2 would have started. And it was something we strongly considered. Hearing some people react in horror to that idea when it's suggested on the forums, and say things like no RPG would nullify your choices when it was really only Mass Effect which did it... well, I wonder how that would have gone. Either way, even with a canon ending I doubt we would have remained with the DAO's Warden as the PC. Loose plot threads do not constitute an entire story, short of those people who feel their personal plot thread of "I had a child with Morrigan" or "I'm ruling Ferelden at Alistair's side" should be the basis for an entire game, regardless of whatever anyone else did.

Hello i think that you are not quite seeing the forest for a tree.

You are seeing DA:0 in technical terms. and from that stand point it was a good game but as you said in some of your posts  DA:2 was at least as good if not better. The debate about combat or companions is a good example.

I am not quite sure what it is, but DA:0 has become some sort of a standard measure for me and lots, if not all game i have played after fall short of that.

Not that I am enamoured with any char of DA:0 or I am having a stroll in woop woop land or throwing my toys out of the pram.

what I am saying is more akin to saying that you like the kar 89 k over a 303 Enfield, 30-06 Springfield, mas 36, Mossin Nagant or what ever 7.62 *5x something bolt action.
I mean they are all full-bore, you have endless debates about which one has the best calibre, sight picture , sight system, balance, nicer to clean, nicer recoil, ammo capacity and so on.

At the end of the day, you will happen to  shoot one of those and say whoa I am sold.
All of the above will become well argumented justification to cover up that fact that you like that one because that it feel right and good and really there no other rational than that.

Sure you can dismiss each group of people that say they like DA:0 for reason X, especially if you take them separately use the most extreme argument of reason X, yet it seems to me lots of thing came to feel good and right in DA:0  for a fair few people.
And playing the warden or having decision imported, is just taking a part of that in the new game.

Philippe

Modifié par philippe willaume, 20 septembre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Last Vizard]

I can never understand why BW doesn't just have an extra character creation for Hawke and the warden... male and female voice overs and a story book intro where it explains the events that lead up to DA 3, that way new and old players can continue with the original story....

Modifié par Last Vizard, 20 septembre 2012 - 09:18 .

[Feanor_II]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Don't forget that roughly 50% of players don't have the God Child conceived and/or have their Warden dead...... so don't have much expectation in those being major plotlines.

I think that number is heavily exaggerated considering how players have multiple wardens, however, it isn't an argument because if your Warden is dead Bioware said they wold respect your choice and not force the OGB on anyone.  Just as they said they would respect those that did chose to have the OGB and live and also to make it relevant to their world that they created.

And that's precisely the point, if BW doesn't intend to force OGB on people like me....... They can't make a major plotline of it!!!!

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Let's be blunt. It would be a pain in the ass to import the Warden into DA3. Plus, with the re-design of the elves, anyone who played as one would likely have to re-create that character from scratch. It's not worth it.

Let's move forward and understand that the Warden's story is over. It's also very likely that Hawke's story is over. I mean, if they bring Hawke back in DA3 but don't let you play as him/her, Hawke will end up saying something out of character and people will start ****ing about that.

So, let's just leave them behind and move forward with the next chapter of the story. This isn't Mass Effect. You aren't playing as one character throughout all three games.

[Last Vizard]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Let's be blunt. It would be a pain in the ass to import the Warden into DA3. Plus, with the re-design of the elves, anyone who played as one would likely have to re-create that character from scratch. It's not worth it.

Let's move forward and understand that the Warden's story is over. It's also very likely that Hawke's story is over. I mean, if they bring Hawke back in DA3 but don't let you play as him/her, Hawke will end up saying something out of character and people will start ****ing about that.

So, let's just leave them behind and move forward with the next chapter of the story. This isn't Mass Effect. You aren't playing as one character throughout all three games.

Uh huh, I'd like more closure if characters are just going to be thrown away because keeping track of choices in sequels.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 20 septembre 2012 - 09:33 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Last Vizard wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Let's be blunt. It would be a pain in the ass to import the Warden into DA3. Plus, with the re-design of the elves, anyone who played as one would likely have to re-create that character from scratch. It's not worth it.

Let's move forward and understand that the Warden's story is over. It's also very likely that Hawke's story is over. I mean, if they bring Hawke back in DA3 but don't let you play as him/her, Hawke will end up saying something out of character and people will start ****ing about that.

So, let's just leave them behind and move forward with the next chapter of the story. This isn't Mass Effect. You aren't playing as one character throughout all three games.

Uh huh, I'd like more closure if characters are just going to be thrown away because keeping track of choices in sequels.

Yes, everyone wants closure and all the questions answered. But we rarely ever get that. Welcome to the world of video games.

[Last Vizard]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Let's be blunt. It would be a pain in the ass to import the Warden into DA3. Plus, with the re-design of the elves, anyone who played as one would likely have to re-create that character from scratch. It's not worth it.

Let's move forward and understand that the Warden's story is over. It's also very likely that Hawke's story is over. I mean, if they bring Hawke back in DA3 but don't let you play as him/her, Hawke will end up saying something out of character and people will start ****ing about that.

So, let's just leave them behind and move forward with the next chapter of the story. This isn't Mass Effect. You aren't playing as one character throughout all three games.

Uh huh, I'd like more closure if characters are just going to be thrown away because keeping track of choices in sequels.

Yes, everyone wants closure and all the questions answered. But we rarely ever get that. Welcome to the world of video games.

... Actually I'm talking about the characters and not the world and if there is even a god in DA universe,  Halo 3 was not an ending so I sat back waiting for Halo 4 while my friends said it was over... no, a character floating in the ass end of a ship in deepspace is not good enough.

Warden and Hawke fading into the mists of time isn't good enough especially because they HAVE the power to alter the outcome of DAs chaos,  is Morrigan going to ditch the Warden for some french guy while raising the god child?