350 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Volus Warlord wrote...

PEOPLE!! PEOPLE!! Why can't we all just get along?!

You can settle your differences orgasmically in the DA3 orgy simulator!

Yes. Bring your manly lesbians and your girly men to the simulator.

[Volus Warlord]

Rawgrim wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

PEOPLE!! PEOPLE!! Why can't we all just get along?!

You can settle your differences orgasmically in the DA3 orgy simulator!

Yes. Bring your manly lesbians and your girly men to the simulator.

Indeed. Just have the manly lesbians be extra rough so I don't have to deal with whiny emo dudes.

[syllogi]

Rawgrim wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

PEOPLE!! PEOPLE!! Why can't we all just get along?!

You can settle your differences orgasmically in the DA3 orgy simulator!

Yes. Bring your manly lesbians and your girly men to the simulator.

I don't know if the Frostbite 2 engine can handle that.

[Emzamination]

Tasmen wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...
Not blatantly ignoring...that quote (from the other poster) wasn't included in your fellow fanatic's quote tree. Calling something 'lesbian' is inventing an adjective. Saying that a 'lesbian' look isn't their aesthetic ideal has nothing to do with fear, or hate, or whatever definition the word homophobic has taken on.

Your fanatic friend needs to get a little more open minded about points of view that aren't identical to her own.

Bolded something for you.  That is exactly part of the definition.  You are saying a specific group of people with a specific sexual preference LOOK a certain way.  You are stereotyping lesbians and THAT is homophobic.

He put lesbian in quotes to put emphasis on an ironic use of the term.Thom wasn't truly calling the look itself lesbian.

[whykikyouwhy]

Sylvianus wrote...

This is exactly what we were talking about.  What different people wants, and obviously they have different different opinions. I find it really funny to be called sexist because someone else doesn't want a manly woman. This is just beautiful.

It's the use of "manly" that is what some folks are calling into question. It's the clinging to stereotypes about women - that they should fit a certain look in order to be "feminine" and if they don't, they are viewed as "masculine," and therefore, in a negative light.

As I stated earlier, people are people - we carry ourselves differently. We look different from one another. We dress in manners that gives us comfort or a sense of joy. And the long-held gender "norms" of ages past are old stereotypes that don't allow for the individual to flourish. Stereotypes can be quite insulting.

[The Hierophant]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

PEOPLE!! PEOPLE!! Why can't we all just get along?!

You can settle your differences orgasmically in the DA3 orgy simulator!

Yes. Bring your manly lesbians and your girly men to the simulator.

Indeed. Just have the manly lesbians be extra rough so I don't have to deal with whiny emo dudes.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 19 septembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[mousestalker]

CitizenThom wrote...

syllogi wrote...

 I'm not quite sure you are trying to defend boobs or homophobia, but, well, I hope that works out for you.

Mostly I'm trying to defend everyone's right to want different things. And that it isn't racist-sexist-bigoted-homophobic etc. for people to want different things.

You've written some balanced stuff in the past. You are not winning now. There are two ways you can salvage some dignity. The first is to retire for the evening and find something else to do other than posting here. The other is to say "I have been expressing myself poorly and in so doing have offended several people. That was not my intent. I apologize to anyone whom my words have offended. I will reflect on what has been said and will return a later time when I am better fitted for forum interaction", then leave.

I'm not saying you can't stay. I'm saying that you've been digging and perhaps you should stop.

Modifié par mousestalker, 19 septembre 2012 - 12:51 .

[CitizenThom]

Tasmen wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...
Not blatantly ignoring...that quote (from the other poster) wasn't included in your fellow fanatic's quote tree. Calling something 'lesbian' is inventing an adjective. Saying that a 'lesbian' look isn't their aesthetic ideal has nothing to do with fear, or hate, or whatever definition the word homophobic has taken on.

Your fanatic friend needs to get a little more open minded about points of view that aren't identical to her own.

Bolded something for you.  That is exactly part of the definition.  You are saying a specific group of people with a specific sexual preference LOOK a certain way.  You are stereotyping lesbians and THAT is homophobic.

So if I say I'm not a fan of the color chartreuse, it isn't aesthetics, it's hate. You see the problem here? No of course not.

I'm not saying anyone looks a certian way, I doubt they were saying all lesbians look 'lesbian'. If you don't get the jist of what they were saying, if you're offended by the use of lesbian as an adjective, so be it. A person may adopt a 'goth' look, but have pictures of unicorns hanging in their bedroom for all I know. A person may adopt a 'grunge' look, but live in beachfront mansion. That's the thing with aesthetics... they're an expression that can only be interpreted skin deep.

[mesmerizedish]

Emzamination wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...
Not blatantly ignoring...that quote (from the other poster) wasn't included in your fellow fanatic's quote tree. Calling something 'lesbian' is inventing an adjective. Saying that a 'lesbian' look isn't their aesthetic ideal has nothing to do with fear, or hate, or whatever definition the word homophobic has taken on.

Your fanatic friend needs to get a little more open minded about points of view that aren't identical to her own.

Bolded something for you.  That is exactly part of the definition.  You are saying a specific group of people with a specific sexual preference LOOK a certain way.  You are stereotyping lesbians and THAT is homophobic.

He put lesbian in quotes to put emphasis on an ironic use of the term.Thom wasn't truly calling the look itself lesbian.

It wasn't "Thom" who used the term originally. He put it in quotes because he was quoting someone else.

[ScotGaymer]

No one's replying to my On Topic Wall O Text Post.

I am sad.

[mesmerizedish]

CitizenThom wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...
Not blatantly ignoring...that quote (from the other poster) wasn't included in your fellow fanatic's quote tree. Calling something 'lesbian' is inventing an adjective. Saying that a 'lesbian' look isn't their aesthetic ideal has nothing to do with fear, or hate, or whatever definition the word homophobic has taken on.

Your fanatic friend needs to get a little more open minded about points of view that aren't identical to her own.

Bolded something for you.  That is exactly part of the definition.  You are saying a specific group of people with a specific sexual preference LOOK a certain way.  You are stereotyping lesbians and THAT is homophobic.

So if I say I'm not a fan of the color chartreuse, it isn't aesthetics, it's hate. You see the problem here? No of course not.

If you say you're not a fan of black skin, you're a racist douche. If you say you're not a fan of "black people clothes," you're even worse.

[Emzamination]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...
Not blatantly ignoring...that quote (from the other poster) wasn't included in your fellow fanatic's quote tree. Calling something 'lesbian' is inventing an adjective. Saying that a 'lesbian' look isn't their aesthetic ideal has nothing to do with fear, or hate, or whatever definition the word homophobic has taken on.

Your fanatic friend needs to get a little more open minded about points of view that aren't identical to her own.

Bolded something for you.  That is exactly part of the definition.  You are saying a specific group of people with a specific sexual preference LOOK a certain way.  You are stereotyping lesbians and THAT is homophobic.

He put lesbian in quotes to put emphasis on an ironic use of the term.Thom wasn't truly calling the look itself lesbian.

It wasn't "Thom" who used the term originally. He put it in quotes because he was quoting someone else.

Exactly, he put it in quotes because that's how you're familiarizing with said look.

[CitizenThom]

mousestalker wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

syllogi wrote...

 I'm not quite sure you are trying to defend boobs or homophobia, but, well, I hope that works out for you.

Mostly I'm trying to defend everyone's right to want different things. And that it isn't racist-sexist-bigoted-homophobic etc. for people to want different things.

You've written some balanced stuff in the past. You are not winning now. There are two ways you can salvage some dignity. The first is to retire for the evening and find something else to do other than posting here. The other is to say "I have been expressing mmyself poorly and in so doing have offended several people. That was not my intent. I apologize to anyone whom my words have offended. I will reflect on what has been said and will return a later time when I am better fitted for forum interaction", then leave.

I'm not saying you can't stay. I'm saying that you've been digging and perhaps you should stop.

The goal should never be to win. The goal should be to communicate.

Yeah, people are offended, because they feel entitled to being offended. I too am taking on that entitlement, just because I find it absurd that people can't disagree with someone's ideology without all the huffing and puffing.

I don't expect anyone to change their views... I do hope they'll accept that other people have different views, and that it doesn't make them evil just because they aren't in lock-step agreement.

[Volus Warlord]

mousestalker wrote...

I'm not saying you can't stay. I'm saying that you've been digging and perhaps you should stop.

Well, if you dig deep enough, you will reach the other side of earth and be above ground. Though it gets a bit hot along the way.

Btw this tactic has a 0% success rate.

[mesmerizedish]

CitizenThom wrote...

The goal should never be to win. The goal should be to communicate.

That you think these are two different things is probably why you're so terrible at both of them.

[The Hierophant]

Everyone ease up, because the catalyst for this clusterf*** derailment is gone for now, and almost everyone who's arguing were agreeing before the said derailment.

[Rinji the Bearded]

CitizenThom wrote...

The goal should never be to win. The goal should be to communicate.

Yeah, people are offended, because they feel entitled to being offended. I too am taking on that entitlement, just because I find it absurd that people can't disagree with someone's ideology without all the huffing and puffing.

I don't expect anyone to change their views... I do hope they'll accept that other people have different views, and that it doesn't make them evil just because they aren't in lock-step agreement.

You are communicating that you are homophobic.   It is being pointed out to you.  Deal with it.

[daaaav]

I haven't read the whole post but their is an important point to be made.

Sexuality and sexual objectification are two very different things. I hope that in Dragon Age 3 objectification without characterisation is avoided but that sexuality is heartily embraced.

The game is set in Orlais, a land where courtesans, brothels and intrigue are a part of their culture. It would feel strange and inauthentic if sexuality where not an integral part of the setting and story. Whether this is accomplished by characterisation or evocative imagery (yes nudity) is up to the developers.

But, it really irks me when people say things like "female characters should dress practically"... Why? What if they don't want to dress practically? If it makes sense for the character then they can dress as impractically as they like...

[Tasmen]

CitizenThom wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...
Not blatantly ignoring...that quote (from the other poster) wasn't included in your fellow fanatic's quote tree. Calling something 'lesbian' is inventing an adjective. Saying that a 'lesbian' look isn't their aesthetic ideal has nothing to do with fear, or hate, or whatever definition the word homophobic has taken on.

Your fanatic friend needs to get a little more open minded about points of view that aren't identical to her own.

Bolded something for you.  That is exactly part of the definition.  You are saying a specific group of people with a specific sexual preference LOOK a certain way.  You are stereotyping lesbians and THAT is homophobic.

So if I say I'm not a fan of the color chartreuse, it isn't aesthetics, it's hate. You see the problem here? No of course not.

I'm not saying anyone looks a certian way, I doubt they were saying all lesbians look 'lesbian'. If you don't get the jist of what they were saying, if you're offended by the use of lesbian as an adjective, so be it. A person may adopt a 'goth' look, but have pictures of unicorns hanging in their bedroom for all I know. A person may adopt a 'grunge' look, but live in beachfront mansion. That's the thing with aesthetics... they're an expression that can only be interpreted skin deep.

Lesbian is a sexual preference not an asethetic.  That's basically what it comes down to me.  I get what you are trying to say, but the execution is a bit lacking.  

Also, just something to note, stereotypes are also not always about hate, they are sometimes about just plain old ignorance.  

[daaaav]

nvm.. thread thoroughly derailed

[John Epler]

I think we're done here.

For the record, in the future, let's try to avoid suggestions that 'oh well gay/lesbian people have X personality trait/dress like Y/like Z', as the amount of influence that someone's sexuality has over their personality beyond 'they are attracted to gender A/B' is nil, and suggesting otherwise comes troublingly close to trying to establish them as a specific 'other', rather than as just people like everyone else.

Now if someone wants to discuss objectification and sexuality in character design without going down that route, you are welcome to start a new topic.

[Sylvianus]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

This is exactly what we were talking about.  What different people wants, and obviously they have different different opinions. I find it really funny to be called sexist because someone else doesn't want a manly woman. This is just beautiful.

It's the use of "manly" that is what some folks are calling into question. It's the clinging to stereotypes about women - that they should fit a certain look in order to be "feminine" and if they don't, they are viewed as "masculine," and therefore, in a negative light.

As I stated earlier, people are people - we carry ourselves differently. We look different from one another. We dress in manners that gives us comfort or a sense of joy. And the long-held gender "norms" of ages past are old stereotypes that don't allow for the individual to flourish. Stereotypes can be quite insulting.

But what stereostypes are we talking about exactly ? I just don't understand how this topic turned into this nonsense, this mess. If I remember we were talking about what we want with a female pc. Some people gave their opinions. Why do we need think the same way as you ?

The Female warden was fine, she was neutral. This is pretty much what I want. When i say manly, that means, she doesn't need to be a male clone. That has nothing to do with what a woman can't be or not.

[CitizenThom]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...
Not blatantly ignoring...that quote (from the other poster) wasn't included in your fellow fanatic's quote tree. Calling something 'lesbian' is inventing an adjective. Saying that a 'lesbian' look isn't their aesthetic ideal has nothing to do with fear, or hate, or whatever definition the word homophobic has taken on.

Your fanatic friend needs to get a little more open minded about points of view that aren't identical to her own.

Bolded something for you.  That is exactly part of the definition.  You are saying a specific group of people with a specific sexual preference LOOK a certain way.  You are stereotyping lesbians and THAT is homophobic.

So if I say I'm not a fan of the color chartreuse, it isn't aesthetics, it's hate. You see the problem here? No of course not.

If you say you're not a fan of black skin, you're a racist douche. If you say you're not a fan of "black people clothes," you're even worse.

I disagree. You can say you hate black skin aesthetically and still not be a racist douche. It's when you hate people with black skin that you're a racist douche. That said, I have to admit, I've never been able to isolate down to one simple package what I think is the aesthetic ideal that I like. I see this person and think, "I like that, but why?" and then I see something completely different and think, "I like that too. And they don't even have anything in common."