350 réponses à ce sujet

[Atalanta]

The BioWare writers have always shown that they are aware of the fact that women play these games too, who don't want to see all of the female characters perpetuating stereotypes (playing the hapless victim, only seeming to exist within the plot to be a love interest to a male character, being a sex object that the PC can win, being unable to protect themselves, etc). Instead they give us well-written, three dimensional female characters who show both literal and moral strength through their words and actions.

That doesn't really match up with what the art team has given us in the past, though. The oversexualization of the characters in Mass Effect 3 was especially disheartening.

Modifié par Atalanta, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:00 .

[cJohnOne]

Their look should be in line with their character. The chracter is more important then sexualization in telling their stories. I think.

[rapscallioness]

MadCat221 wrote...

A sterling example of gratuitous oversexualization in ME2 and ME3: Miranda, her wedgie, and the cutscene designers' constant need to rub the camera in it.

yeah, I didn't like that. Shep and Miri are having a conversation abt something that seems pretty important, and my fov is stuck up miri's azz crack. I thought that was pretty immature.

There were also issues w/Ashley. She didn't start off with breasts that big. Isabella always had that breast size. And the other females in your party did have varying breast sizes. Merrill. Aveline. So I didn't care abt that.

But with Ash in ME3 she was deliberately boobified to sex her up. The designers even said so. In ME3 she now had this sexy mama armor. Wedge heels on wat looked to be thigh high boots. All for a character that clearly stated she prefered good solid armor.

They didn't need to do that.

[Dubozz]

Knight of Dane wrote...

On the subject: Game Theory: Boobs
Personally i like oversexuality if it fits character. Isabela is a person that enjoys, well sex, and uses it as an advantage too. I found her design perfectly in sync with er personality.

I'v learned a lot about life from this video.

[Bfler]

Why do you only talk about woman. Look f.e. at Shepard in ME3, his upper body is similar to Hulk. That's equally oversexualized as large breasts.
But I guess all the females here like that.

Modifié par Bfler, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:07 .

[CitizenThom]

It would be nice if there was a greater variety of character models that the game was built off of. Nevermind the 'ohnoes busty women' issue that some people have, a variety of 'builds' for the people of a game world grounds the world better.

Not the top thing to spend time on, but if it's not too time intensive, it would be a nice touch to add to the game.

That said I really don't care if Venus di Milo is a party member, I don't care if some characters are sexualised, and I don't care if people don't have an aesthetic appreciation for the same things I have an aesthetic appreciation for.

p.s. I liked the Miranda walking away shots, found Isabela's thighs and eyes more interesting than her bust, thought Merrill ended up a bit odd shaped trying to fit a large bust on a super petite frame, etc.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:11 .

[marshalleck]

syllogi wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

syllogi wrote...

sunnydxmen wrote...

We girls with big breast exist you know.

Oh goodness gracious.  First off, these kind of comments are actually kind of rude to women who aren't well endowed.  They deserve representation just as much as you do.  Secondly, what does that have to do with practical armor, that also looks good?


Both DA games were pretty decent in this regard, although I would ask to let someone like Isabela change her outfit occasionally, if they're going to be around for seven years.  She was a person who cared about her appearance, and it would have made sense to let her have a different look between Acts.  And no, a different corset if romanced doesn't count.

You know, neither of these issues relates to sexuality or sexism or any sort of artistic philosophy...it mostly has to do with recycling assets. If you want women with different sized breasts in the game, you need not only different base physical body models--you need 3d models speficically for each of the base female body models. Or you need to develop an elaborate and usually quite imperfect system of mesh scaling, and accept all kinds of unforseen clipping issues. 

Have you read David Gaider's blog post about how party member customization is going to be handled in the future?  It may be subject to change, but it's not as difficult as you're making it out to be, if they do implement that system.  The whole point, I assume, is to let individual characters have their individual body models, while also letting them change their appearance.  This would be a perfect example of a way to implement the system.

Obviously, not all NPCs are going to be affected by this, but as long as peasant ladies aren't suddenly forced to wear chainmail bikinis because of reasons, I think I can deal with them all having the same bodies.

I never said anything about difficulty. It has nothing to do with difficulty. It has to do with very real restriction on the amount of content Bioware can cram onto one physical disc. And no, I haven't read Gaider's blog in question, nor do I really care to. He's a writer, not an engineer. 

Bring me a blog post from one of Bioware's programmers/technical designers saying "oh yeah, multiple body types and clothing/armor that all matches without clipping, no problem, we figured how to deliver it with no data footprint" and I'll be impressed.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:07 .

[marshalleck]

Atalanta wrote...
That doesn't really match up with what the art team has given us in the past, though.

You're right, Aveline was totally a hotrodded sex machine.

Come on. Give credit where it's due.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:10 .

[Melra]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Why do you only talk about woman. Look f.e. at Shepard in ME3, his upper body is similar to Hulk. That's equally oversexualized as large breasts.
But I guess all the females here like that.

Guys like that. No guys want to play some flabby or skinny dude in an action-RPG.

Speak for yourself.

[Reidbynature]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Why do you only talk about woman. Look f.e. at Shepard in ME3, his upper body is similar to Hulk. That's equally oversexualized as large breasts.
But I guess all the females here like that.

Guys like that. No guys want to play some flabby or skinny dude in an action-RPG.

And women can't subscribe to the ideal of large breasts like men do with being as ripped as the Hulk?  Similarly, can't me ask "isn't that a bit much" when it comes to that ideal?

Modifié par Reidbynature, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:15 .

[The dead fish]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Why do you only talk about woman. Look f.e. at Shepard in ME3, his upper body is similar to Hulk. That's equally oversexualized as large breasts.
But I guess all the females here like that.

Guys like that. No guys want to play some flabby or skinny dude in an action-RPG.

Pretty much.

Please leave Shepard alone and all the manly protagonists. We guys are happy with that design.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[Saerwen]

Bfler wrote...

Why do you only talk about woman. Look f.e. at Shepard in ME3, his upper body is similar to Hulk. That's equally oversexualized as large breasts.
But I guess all the females here like that.

What you said... and no I wasn't a huge fan of it.  Also, Female Shep when she had her romance scenes was scrawny.  Just nasty, supposed to be this super soldier and she has zero muscle tone/upper body strength.  But this is off topic, I guess..

I didn't think that they oversexualized anyone in the Dragon Age franchise so far.  The two women that come immediatly to mind that bare skin are Isabela and Morrigan, and that was just part of thier personality.  I think that it would be nice if in the CC they could implement a slider similar to Skyrim/Oblivion where you could control weight/age etc.  That would be nice, and wouldn't have any impact on the rest of the NPC's. 

[CitizenThom]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Why do you only talk about woman. Look f.e. at Shepard in ME3, his upper body is similar to Hulk. That's equally oversexualized as large breasts.
But I guess all the females here like that.

Guys like that. No guys want to play some flabby or skinny dude in an action-RPG.

Oh contraire! (I'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong)

If people will pick such characters in fighting games, I'm sure they'll play them in action games. A character being more corpulant or more lanky would be quite appropriate to express certian kinds of characters. in ME3, if engineers were a little more fleshy, infiltrators a little more lean, it would fit their skillsets don't you think?

Modifié par CitizenThom, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[Demx]

Melrache wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Why do you only talk about woman. Look f.e. at Shepard in ME3, his upper body is similar to Hulk. That's equally oversexualized as large breasts.
But I guess all the females here like that.

Guys like that. No guys want to play some flabby or skinny dude in an action-RPG.

Speak for yourself.

No kidding.

[Morgax_Warrior]

Why would you care? its not they are covering full screen during conversations, also half of time you fight, when do you have time to stare at them when you need to beat up bandits with thumpy/cutty sticks?

Ladies you're better than those pixels shaped as female body, don't lose your temper over it.

[Dutchess]

Emzamination wrote...

Isabela's breast didn't look ridiculously huge to me.The biggest natural breast recorded that I know of is 38g and isabela didn't come within leagues of that.As for the Illusion of implants, are you factoring in that she was wearing a corset?

I wasn't really talking about the size, more the shape.



Come on, they look like balloons. Corset or not.

[The dead fish]

I'm pretty sure many guys like what they see with Shepard and they have no issue with him. But it doesn't matter anyway.

[Dubozz]

How dare you to insult Isabella's boobs!! Peasants!! to Arms!! And whats wrong with baloons? Everybody love baloons!

Modifié par Dubozz, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:22 .

[Rawgrim]

renjility wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Isabela's breast didn't look ridiculously huge to me.The biggest natural breast recorded that I know of is 38g and isabela didn't come within leagues of that.As for the Illusion of implants, are you factoring in that she was wearing a corset?

I wasn't really talking about the size, more the shape.



Come on, they look like balloons. Corset or not.

Its not baloons, its weapons. She stuffs enemies faces in between them and suffocates them that way. Come on. Hawke has an oversized sword, why can`t Isabela get big weapons too?

[syllogi]

marshalleck wrote...

syllogi wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

 You know, neither of these issues relates to sexuality or sexism or any sort of artistic philosophy...it mostly has to do with recycling assets. If you want women with different sized breasts in the game, you need not only different base physical body models--you need 3d models speficically for each of the base female body models. Or you need to develop an elaborate and usually quite imperfect system of mesh scaling, and accept all kinds of unforseen clipping issues. 

Have you read David Gaider's blog post about how party member customization is going to be handled in the future?  It may be subject to change, but it's not as difficult as you're making it out to be, if they do implement that system.  The whole point, I assume, is to let individual characters have their individual body models, while also letting them change their appearance.  This would be a perfect example of a way to implement the system.

Obviously, not all NPCs are going to be affected by this, but as long as peasant ladies aren't suddenly forced to wear chainmail bikinis because of reasons, I think I can deal with them all having the same bodies.

I never said anything about difficulty. It has nothing to do with difficulty. It has to do with very real restriction on the amount of content Bioware can cram onto one physical disc. And no, I haven't read Gaider's blog in question, nor do I really care to. He's a writer, not an engineer. 

Bring me a blog post from one of Bioware's programmers/technical designers saying "oh yeah, multiple body types and clothing/armor that all matches without clipping, no problem, we figured how to deliver it with no data footprint" and I'll be impressed.

(snipping to prevent pyramids)

The post about customization.  I have no idea why you wouldn't believe that David Gaider speaks for the team if he's writing a blog post, but he does in fact say that he's speaking for Mike Laidlaw, if that makes it more legitimate to you.

The original post was talking about both body types and sensible outfits, though.  Even if they can't make the system talked about in the blog work, what's wrong with at least the sensible outfits part, at least when female characters are in action?  I have no problem with love scenes, or even "sexy" outfits when and where appropriate.  But I don't see how resources would be severely taxed by simply taking the OP's suggestion.

And as a disclaimer, I do enjoy Frank Frazetta and Boris Vallejo's art, but making DA3 more "sexy" by putting women into Red Sonja outfits is just going to seem cheap, exploitative, and desperate, especially since the female characters in the past games have not, for the most part, been that exposed.

Modifié par syllogi, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:27 .

[Dutchess]

Rawgrim wrote...

renjility wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Isabela's breast didn't look ridiculously huge to me.The biggest natural breast recorded that I know of is 38g and isabela didn't come within leagues of that.As for the Illusion of implants, are you factoring in that she was wearing a corset?

I wasn't really talking about the size, more the shape.

*snip*

Come on, they look like balloons. Corset or not.

Its not baloons, its weapons. She stuffs enemies faces in between them and suffocates them that way. Come on. Hawke has an oversized sword, why can`t Isabela get big weapons too?

LOL, that reminds me of this comic:

[Rawgrim]

renjility wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

renjility wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Isabela's breast didn't look ridiculously huge to me.The biggest natural breast recorded that I know of is 38g and isabela didn't come within leagues of that.As for the Illusion of implants, are you factoring in that she was wearing a corset?

I wasn't really talking about the size, more the shape.

*snip*

Come on, they look like balloons. Corset or not.

Its not baloons, its weapons. She stuffs enemies faces in between them and suffocates them that way. Come on. Hawke has an oversized sword, why can`t Isabela get big weapons too?

LOL, that reminds me of this comic:

Rogues do have skills at booby-traps, so its not like it will ruin immersion.

[rapscallioness]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Why do you only talk about woman. Look f.e. at Shepard in ME3, his upper body is similar to Hulk. That's equally oversexualized as large breasts.
But I guess all the females here like that.

Guys like that. No guys want to play some flabby or skinny dude in an action-RPG.

Tell you true, I really didn't care for the build on the guys in ME3. The proportions felt off to me. The upper body was really fanned out. Then they had these abnormally tiny waists and butts. With these too long arms. Kaidan. Jacob. It looked weird. To me.

The build for guys, I thought, was better in ME1. Natural proportions. Athletic, but not bulky. And they had much nicer butts. ManShep had a great butt in ME1. They all did.

[Androme]

 Oversexualization needs to go, it's a disease in Western and Asian societies.