350 réponses à ce sujet

[seraphis01]

[quote]David Gaider wrote...

[[/quote]

I get what you're saying. Personally, I have no problem with "sexy" female characters... so long as it's consistent for the character and there is diversity in the representation. One must have Avelines as well as Isabelas. And thus I think we've done pretty good on that front.

I don't think one would get much traction with the suggestion that there should be no sexualization, or defining where the line is. There definitely is a line, however, between exploitation and idealization... particularly when it comes to female characters (which are generally the former) and male characters (which are generally the latter), so it's easy to see why anyone might be sensitive to such depictions.
[/quote]
 im 1000 % agreed with you in this. thanks for the diversity in the representation in your games , amen!!!!

[Sylvianus]

So if you all agree, that means if we get another Isabela in the next game you won't complain again. ( since there is diversity ) I'd be glad if that was the case.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 septembre 2012 - 08:23 .

[Biotic_Warlock]

Dragon age doesn't oversexualise very much; remember this isn't Mass Effect. In that there was a LOT of oversexualisation, especially of those of many female characters and male Shepard.

Isabela could be considered to have been oversexualised, but her character seems to suggest her appearance anyway, although it could be reduced a bit.

[Rawgrim]

Isabela was arguably one of the best characters in DA2. Aside from Aveline, she had the most character development in the entire game. Her looks and how she displayed her looks fit very well with the character too.

[Maria Caliban]

iakus wrote...

Exactly.  And that's where the ability to customize character and follower appearances can help a great deal.  It helps move things closer to where the players' individual lines are

The player should be able to customize the PC more than BioWare currently allows (KOTOR has four different body shapes) but I don't want players to customize the bodies of the companions.

[marshalleck]

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

[Rawgrim]

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

excelent point.

[Fredward]

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

Double standards always seem to arise from equality seeking, I assume it's a phase. I hope it's a phase. xp

[Maverick827]

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

Assuming Conan has access to armor and chooses not to wear it into to battle, then I would say that's just as silly. 

[CuriousArtemis]

Huntress wrote...

 some womens swinging their hips when they walk, maybe is a culture things, maybe I do not find it offencive/offensive because.. well.. meh I don't actually look to womens that close.

The walking animation is wildly offensive. Because I am biologically female BW thinks I even WALK differently than men?! It's the sort of unintentional sexism that saturates the gaming world, the sort of thing Anita Sarkeesian wants to talk about (but gets constantly lambasted for).

Sylvianus wrote...

So if you all agree, that means if we get another Isabela in the next game you won't complain again. ( since there is diversity ) I'd be glad if that was the case.

 

Only if we get her masculine equivalent.

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

 

Yes, isn't it? Considering men have been sexually objectifying women for the past few millenia and all. I mean, it's totally the same thing, isn't it?

Consider this: Isabela was made sexy to please the straight male player gaze.
Conan was made nearly naked to ALSO please the straight male viewer gaze ... because he represents the ideal man (strong, powerful, primal), etc. 

Conan is not nearly naked to please the straight female gaze. That's the difference. 

[The Hierophant]

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

I thought it was because some of the fandom holds the DA series to a higher standard, and if a character who is similar in design to Conan was in DA, you can expect complaints.(The Conan comics were a good read though.)

[Chaos Lord Malek]

I am one with Zevran on this, and dislike when women doesn't have well formed bosom. I don't want to play a tomboy.

[TK514]

I think two discussions have become muddled in the thread. The first is about character design, and the second is about graphics engine limitation/use.

The op seems to be talking about character design. They'd prefer to see a wide variety of body types and fashions, instead of a parade of "oversexualized" cast members. And, personally, I don't think that is a complaint you can level at the Dragon Age team. They provide a goodly number of body and clothing styles that fit the personalities of their characters, so there's a nice range from Aveline to Isabella.

Several other people seem to take issue with the graphics engine and it's use. The screenshot of Isabella and complaints about her 'balloons', for one. It's a limitation of the engine that everyone looks a bit plastic, and sometimes things don't quite move or rest as they should. Personally, I think they made the right call on 'good enough' rather than devoting their efforts to more realistic boob physics.

Ultimately, I don't personally see either complaint as a problem in the DA series, except as a cautionary "Don't pull an ME3 Ashley" request. Generic NPCs are generally very conservative in dress, and party NPCs tend to be somewhat more flamboyant so that they stand out, each according to their character.

[Atalanta]

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

I think that's stupid too, but why would I complain about it on the Dragon Age forums? 
I wasn't aware that BioWare had a magic time machine that could transport them back to 1982 to force him to put a hauberk or something on.

We can ask the developers to make sure the characters in Dragon Age 3 are properly attired, though.

[syllogi]

David Gaider wrote...

I get what you're saying. Personally, I have no problem with "sexy" female characters... so long as it's consistent for the character and there is diversity in the representation. One must have Avelines as well as Isabelas. And thus I think we've done pretty good on that front.

I don't think one would get much traction with the suggestion that there should be no sexualization, or defining where the line is. There definitely is a line, however, between exploitation and idealization... particularly when it comes to female characters (which are generally the former) and male characters (which are generally the latter), so it's easy to see why anyone might be sensitive to such depictions.

I think what I would ask from the Dragon Age devs is to please be considerate of the women who are going to play your games.  We are bombarded with sexualized imagery of female bodies as objects everyday, and given mixed messages by the media about how we should behave.  Women should be sexy, yet stigmatized as "bad girls" for dressing like the women we are told to admire.

Playing video games is an escape for women as well as men.  It's not as much fun if I'm playing a game like Mass Effect 3 and wondering why it was necessary to do *that* to EDI.  As I've said elsewhere, if you put a picture of EDI's body on your cubicle in a moderately conservative workplace, you might get called to HR to watch the sexual harassment video again.  I get that guys like pretty women...I like them too.  But when I'm trying to enjoy the combat in a video game, I don't want to feel sorry for the female characters because they are scantily clad while the dudes are all heavily armored.

I don't think that the Dragon Age games are the worst offenders in this regard at all, but I really hope that the new customization system for followers does allow for sensible armor, even for the requisite "sexy" ladies in our party.  I know I am considered a "bad" Isabela fan for wanting to put some pants on her, but whatever.  She would be just as attractive and appealing in Aveline's armor as she is in her own.

[Rawgrim]

Atalanta wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

I think that's stupid too, but why would I complain about it on the Dragon Age forums? 
I wasn't aware that BioWare had a magic time machine that could transport them back to 1982 to force him to put a hauberk or something on.

We can ask the developers to make sure the characters in Dragon Age 3 are properly attired, though.

Actually Conan was created in the 1920s. that travesty from 1982 was Conan in name only. Just some trivia.

[Sylvianus]

I liked Isabela 's outfit. What bothered me is that in combat, I couldn't change her clothes without pants. Now with the customization promised by Bioware, there shouldn't be issues. I just want armors and outfits for everyone, except maybe mages.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 septembre 2012 - 08:46 .

[Lasien]

CitizenThom wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Why do you only talk about woman. Look f.e. at Shepard in ME3, his upper body is similar to Hulk. That's equally oversexualized as large breasts.
But I guess all the females here like that.

Guys like that. No guys want to play some flabby or skinny dude in an action-RPG.

Oh contraire! (I'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong)

If people will pick such characters in fighting games, I'm sure they'll play them in action games. A character being more corpulant or more lanky would be quite appropriate to express certian kinds of characters. in ME3, if engineers were a little more fleshy, infiltrators a little more lean, it would fit their skillsets don't you think?

Yeah... apparently my engineer (who only wore light armour and was skinny) hit the gym and got some 'roids in between games...

Also, I didn't really have a problem with any of the DA characters, as I have seen and known women with builds like Merrill, Aveline and Isabela.

ME3 though... everyone got state-sponsored boob jobs... (and apparently liara's are either inflatable or she... storing things in there. Watch the end of shadow broker.)

[marshalleck]

motomotogirl wrote...

Yes, isn't it? Considering men have been sexually objectifying women for the past few millenia and all. I mean, it's totally the same thing, isn't it?

Consider this: Isabela was made sexy to please the straight male player gaze.
Conan was made nearly naked to ALSO please the straight male viewer gaze ... because he represents the ideal man (strong, powerful, primal), etc. 

Conan is not nearly naked to please the straight female gaze. That's the difference. 

While I don't disagree--especially about idealization, which is a tradition in art going back to 3000 year old Greek friezes--the comment was meant more to poke holes at the supposed concern of a lack of protection, when in reality I can't help but feel like it's motivated more by discomfort and insecurity with sexuality. Kind of like the same scorn heaped on people who "flaunt their sexuality" might just have a lot to do with nobody wanting to see the person doing the hating in tight or revelaing clothing. 

[Lasien]

syllogi wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I get what you're saying. Personally, I have no problem with "sexy" female characters... so long as it's consistent for the character and there is diversity in the representation. One must have Avelines as well as Isabelas. And thus I think we've done pretty good on that front.

I don't think one would get much traction with the suggestion that there should be no sexualization, or defining where the line is. There definitely is a line, however, between exploitation and idealization... particularly when it comes to female characters (which are generally the former) and male characters (which are generally the latter), so it's easy to see why anyone might be sensitive to such depictions.

I think what I would ask from the Dragon Age devs is to please be considerate of the women who are going to play your games.  We are bombarded with sexualized imagery of female bodies as objects everyday, and given mixed messages by the media about how we should behave.  Women should be sexy, yet stigmatized as "bad girls" for dressing like the women we are told to admire.

Playing video games is an escape for women as well as men.  It's not as much fun if I'm playing a game like Mass Effect 3 and wondering why it was necessary to do *that* to EDI.  As I've said elsewhere, if you put a picture of EDI's body on your cubicle in a moderately conservative workplace, you might get called to HR to watch the sexual harassment video again.  I get that guys like pretty women...I like them too.  But when I'm trying to enjoy the combat in a video game, I don't want to feel sorry for the female characters because they are scantily clad while the dudes are all heavily armored.

I don't think that the Dragon Age games are the worst offenders in this regard at all, but I really hope that the new customization system for followers does allow for sensible armor, even for the requisite "sexy" ladies in our party.  I know I am considered a "bad" Isabela fan for wanting to put some pants on her, but whatever.  She would be just as attractive and appealing in Aveline's armor as she is in her own.

some nice leather pants would fit nicely. I agree with one of the previous posters that said she looked like someone stole her pants and she was too proud to buy new ones. 

Also, I really don't think she's stupid enough (character-wise) to go without pants at all times.

[Maria Caliban]

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

Give me a woman built like Conan and I'll have no trouble with her striding into battle bare-chested.

[Rawgrim]

Maria Caliban wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

Give me a woman built like Conan and I'll have no trouble with her striding into battle bare-chested.

I`d love it if we got a proper muscle chic as a companion in a game. I don`t recall it ever having been done in a game before.

[Massa FX]

I was very comfortable in femsheps shape. Having a large rack is overrated. Having a cone large rack is artificial.

[Rawgrim]

Massa FX wrote...

I was very comfortable in femsheps shape. Having a large rack is overrated. Having a cone large rack is artificial.

So is having to look like Arnold when playing a male.

[marshalleck]

Maria Caliban wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

Give me a woman built like Conan and I'll have no trouble with her striding into battle bare-chested.

 http://thecpl.com/wp...She-Barb-D3.jpg 

Too much? Not enough?