350 réponses à ce sujet

[philippe willaume]

David Gaider wrote...

StElmo wrote...
I have total respect for how Female Hawke in DA2 initially dresses quite tough! (no boob shaped armor, or scantily clad attire - thank god!).

I had a little problem with not being able to maker her bulkier, a claymore wielding warrior would be bulkier, but alas, it's a minor concern, given how appreciative I am of the armor designs.

That said, there are a few moments where I think character designs over step the mark in relation to being exploitive of sexualized design, rather then natural or believable.

ME3 had a huge problem with making it's female characters bustier and less "natural" and therefore less "grounded" in comparison to the first game. I like believable characters, not manipulative designs seeking to attract my attention in all the wrong ways.

Make good characters through good writing, sure they can look beautiful, but only in the most practical sense of the word. A warrior on the front lines of a war would not be wearing heavy makeup for instance, or a chainmail bikini

By all means have romances, sex scenes and all that - but treat us like adults, not teenagers. 

Just a heads up, I do not expect BW to make DA3 more sexualized.

I get what you're saying. Personally, I have no problem with "sexy" female characters... so long as it's consistent for the character and there is diversity in the representation. One must have Avelines as well as Isabelas. And thus I think we've done pretty good on that front.

I don't think one would get much traction with the suggestion that there should be no sexualization, or defining where the line is. There definitely is a line, however, between exploitation and idealization... particularly when it comes to female characters (which are generally the former) and male characters (which are generally the latter), so it's easy to see why anyone might be sensitive to such depictions.

Yes I think DA is doing quite well on that front on that front.
More than ME2 and  3, the DA characters representation is more consistant with how they are portrayed. (except for  the bridget Jones underwears that is).

Phil

[Ryzaki]

Ugh yeah Shep's sudden buff bod turned me off. My adept should not be that buff. D:

I think DA hit a nice medium in the sexualization department though.

...though I also gave Isabela pants. Do not want panty shots. Just...no.

[Maria Caliban]

marshalleck wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Give me a woman built like Conan and I'll have no trouble with her striding into battle bare-chested.

 http://thecpl.com/wp...She-Barb-D3.jpg 

Too much? Not enough?

I loved the she-barbarian in Diablo III. She looked like she could swing an axe hard enough to split a giant demon in two. Most female warriors in games/movies/comics look like they'd struggle to open a pickle jar.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:02 .

[marshalleck]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I loved the she-barbarian in Diablo III. She looked like she could swing an axe hard enough to split a giant demon in two. Most female warriors in games/movies/comics look like they'd struggle to open a pickle jar.

Yes! She had a cool freaking voice too. 

[Rawgrim]

Maria Caliban wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Give me a woman built like Conan and I'll have no trouble with her striding into battle bare-chested.

 http://thecpl.com/wp...She-Barb-D3.jpg 

Too much? Not enough?

I loved the she-barbarian in Diablo III. She looked like she could swing an axe hard enough to split a giant demon in two. Most female warriors in games/movies/comics look like they'd struggle to open a pickle jar.

I find myself agreeing 100 percent with Caliban.

[Atalanta]

I approve of this site: http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/

[Iakus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

iakus wrote...

Exactly.  And that's where the ability to customize character and follower appearances can help a great deal.  It helps move things closer to where the players' individual lines are

The player should be able to customize the PC more than BioWare currently allows (KOTOR has four different body shapes) but I don't want players to customize the bodies of the companions.

Well, that much is true.

But the player should be able to outfit them.  You know, give them aparticular look that they find appropriate (or entertaining) Or at least pants if the player so chooses 

[LostInReverie19]

I'd argue that both male and female characters can be quite sexualized in video games, not just the ladies. However, keep it reasonable and believable. Isabela's look was very much in character for her so that doesn't bother me. However, I would have a problem with my main playable character walking around in tight, form-fitting, scanty clothing, for example, when she's supposed to be a bad ass warrior.

[cindercatz]

Body types should be varied in general and unique for all important characters. Boob size shouldn't be an issue. Some girls are light, some are hourglass, some are top heavy, and all of those can be just as athletic as the next. Breast size has nothing to do with athletic aptitude. I suggest anybody that disagrees should take a good look at pro tennis, take a look at champion MMA fighter Gina Carrano, take a look at champion boxer Layla Ali, check out the two women who made it all the way through "Women's Ninja Warrior" (which is highly athletic, even as a television competition) and then laugh at their former misconception. Look at modern female soldiers. Athletic combatants wouldn't look like emaciated long distance runners, nor do they look bulky and masculine any more than any other segment of the female population.

btw, This also applies to men. You have a problem with how women are presented, keep in mind that male fighters are just as likely to look beat to hell or pretty as female fighters. Natural variety is the key.

And mages are another thing entirely, as they're less likely to be physically matching with any kind of warrior.

marshalleck wrote...

Dragon Age needs much more inspiration from Frank Frazetta and Boris Vallejo, less from Disney.

Props to you. Totally agreed.
Also, more influence from our current golden age of premium television, like Game of Thrones and Spartacus (Blood and Sand, Gods of The Arena, etc.). More influence from the R-rated fantasy films from the 1980s that DA:O originally attempted to emulate.

Take zero influence from Disney, etc. That's the opposite of what I want out of Dragon Age.

[Zkyire]

motomotogirl wrote...

Huntress wrote...

 some womens swinging their hips when they walk, maybe is a culture things, maybe I do not find it offencive/offensive because.. well.. meh I don't actually look to womens that close.

The walking animation is wildly offensive. Because I am biologically female BW thinks I even WALK differently than men?! It's the sort of unintentional sexism that saturates the gaming world, the sort of thing Anita Sarkeesian wants to talk about (but gets constantly lambasted for).

Sylvianus wrote...

So if you all agree, that means if we get another Isabela in the next game you won't complain again. ( since there is diversity ) I'd be glad if that was the case.

 

Only if we get her masculine equivalent.

marshalleck wrote...

Funny how some people get all up in arms about chainmail bikinis, but have no problem at all with Conan striding into battle bare-chested.

 

Yes, isn't it? Considering men have been sexually objectifying women for the past few millenia and all. I mean, it's totally the same thing, isn't it?

Consider this: Isabela was made sexy to please the straight male player gaze.
Conan was made nearly naked to ALSO please the straight male viewer gaze ... because he represents the ideal man (strong, powerful, primal), etc. 

Conan is not nearly naked to please the straight female gaze. That's the difference. 

I found myself agreeing with you entirely until this post.

Then you lost me. Completely.

Scantily-clad women - that's fanservice for men. Scantily-clad men - that's.. also fanservice for men.

And women objectify men too. Always have. It isn't new.

Honestly I don't even.. what?

Modifié par Zkyire, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:12 .

[deuce985]

This is why I loved Aveline. She's probably the most genuine character I've seen Bioware make in awhile.

I don't have a problem with sexualized characters like Isabella. It fits her character just fine. I would like to see more warrior women like Aveline though...

Every warrior doesn't have to be the next Victoria's Secret model...look at me flaunting this new Plate Mail for Fereldan! Damn I look good in it!

What Maria said above I also agree on. You can still make warrior women look beautiful but make them buff. It doesn't make sense to have warrior women running around who look like they couldn't pick a toothpick up...

Modifié par deuce985, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:17 .

[piloteyre]

Hey, sexualize all you like. But it's funny how we never get cut, bare chested male companions striding into battle, complete with loving shots of their asses in cutscenes.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander , I say.

[CuriousArtemis]

marshalleck wrote...

when in reality I can't help but feel like it's motivated more by discomfort and insecurity with sexuality. Kind of like the same scorn heaped on people who "flaunt their sexuality" might just have a lot to do with nobody wanting to see the person doing the hating in tight or revelaing clothing. 

Oh my. I assure you, I am not uncomfortable or insecure about sex or sexuality. Why would it bother me in some Victorian fashion to see a nearly naked female body? I see a wholly naked one in the mirror every day! *now that everyone thinks I stare at myself admiringly in the mirror on a daily basis....*

I object to the objectification of female characters in video games. I am female; I was born this way and didn't choose my sex. But yet I'm constantly objectified by my culture, which tells me to dress a certain way (try buying work trousers that can be worn without heels), look a certain way (because I have short pink hair and don't wear make-up I get lots of looks ... of the non-sexual variety), and act a certain way. In essense, I'm supposed to dress, look, and act in a way that pleases a straight male. 

So when I play a video game, I can escape from this world. I'm not defined by my sex anymore. But when I see female characters being depicted the same way the world wants ME to look and act, it is frustrating, even depressing.

I hope I've managed to explain my POV 

[CuriousArtemis]

Zkyire wrote...

I found myself agreeing with you entirely until this post.

Then you lost me. Completely.

Scantily-clad women - that's fanservice for men. Scantily-clad men - that's.. also fanservice for men.

And women objectify men too. Always have. It isn't new.

Honestly I don't even.. what?

Sorry; I'm a (sort of) fem theorist and sometimes have trouble explaining things simply. Just see Laura Mulvey's "Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema"; that might clear some things up.

[Zkyire]

motomotogirl wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

when in reality I can't help but feel like it's motivated more by discomfort and insecurity with sexuality. Kind of like the same scorn heaped on people who "flaunt their sexuality" might just have a lot to do with nobody wanting to see the person doing the hating in tight or revelaing clothing. 

Oh my. I assure you, I am not uncomfortable or insecure about sex or sexuality. Why would it bother me in some Victorian fashion to see a nearly naked female body? I see a wholly naked one in the mirror every day! *now that everyone thinks I stare at myself admiringly in the mirror on a daily basis....*

I object to the objectification of female characters in video games. I am female; I was born this way and didn't choose my sex. But yet I'm constantly objectified by my culture, which tells me to dress a certain way (try buying work trousers that can be worn without heels), look a certain way (because I have short pink hair and don't wear make-up I get lots of looks ... of the non-sexual variety), and act a certain way. In essense, I'm supposed to dress, look, and act in a way that pleases a straight male. 

So when I play a video game, I can escape from this world. I'm not defined by my sex anymore. But when I see female characters being depicted the same way the world wants ME to look and act, it is frustrating, even depressing.

I hope I've managed to explain my POV 

Everyone, female AND male have to dress a certain way.

You think if a man wore heels he wouldn't get funny looks?

You think if a man had pink hair he wouldn't get funny looks?

Pressure is put on all of us to go along with whatever the norm happens to be at the time.

Modifié par Zkyire, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:22 .

[Maria Caliban]

Zkyire wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Conan is not nearly naked to please the straight female gaze. That's the difference. 

I found myself agreeing with you entirely until this post.

Then you lost me. Completely.

Scantily-clad women - that's fanservice for men. Scantily-clad men - that's.. also fanservice for men.

And women objectify men too. Always have. It isn't new.

Honestly I don't even.. what?

Most straight women don't find this sexy:



This is a level of beefiness that many women find off-putting. Conan is more a power fantasy for men than a sexual fantasy for women.

That isn't to say that women don't find naked dudes hot. It's just they tend to leaner builds than that.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:24 .

[Sylvianus]

That was the same for Isabela. Many guys thought it was too much  and were disgusted.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[marshalleck]

motomotogirl wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

when in reality I can't help but feel like it's motivated more by discomfort and insecurity with sexuality. Kind of like the same scorn heaped on people who "flaunt their sexuality" might just have a lot to do with nobody wanting to see the person doing the hating in tight or revelaing clothing. 

Oh my. I assure you, I am not uncomfortable or insecure about sex or sexuality. Why would it bother me in some Victorian fashion to see a nearly naked female body? I see a wholly naked one in the mirror every day! *now that everyone thinks I stare at myself admiringly in the mirror on a daily basis....*

I object to the objectification of female characters in video games. I am female; I was born this way and didn't choose my sex. But yet I'm constantly objectified by my culture, which tells me to dress a certain way (try buying work trousers that can be worn without heels), look a certain way (because I have short pink hair and don't wear make-up I get lots of looks ... of the non-sexual variety), and act a certain way. In essense, I'm supposed to dress, look, and act in a way that pleases a straight male. 

So when I play a video game, I can escape from this world. I'm not defined by my sex anymore. But when I see female characters being depicted the same way the world wants ME to look and act, it is frustrating, even depressing.

I hope I've managed to explain my POV 

Okay. That's your take on it, and that's fine, but I'm not convinced that everyone who whines about "chainmail bikinis" in Dragon Age (!?!?) has given it as much thought as you have.

[The Hierophant]

Nyoka wrote...

^ I was told once that Zangief from street fighter was an example of the oversexualization of men.

Elaborate?

[marshalleck]

Nyoka wrote...

^ I was told once that Zangief from street fighter was an example of the oversexualization of men in games.

I don't know about oversexualization, maybe overmasculinization? The guy wrestles bears in nothing but a commie-red speedo FFS.

It's pretty basic idealization/power fantasy stuff like Maria said.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:31 .

[Frenetic Pony]

But what will we do unless every character has a giant double D chest and an hourglass figure, guys included???

Honestly, it feels like recently Bioware's artists have all been replaced by horny 12 year old boys, a few of which are gay of course. "Ok, the guys need to be stubble bearded badasses, (open shirted with chest hair! yells someone). Alright, fine. And girls, bigger boobs, no bigger, BIGGER! Teehee hee hee.

Heck, the entire gameplay of DA2 was ruined so artists could get their ceilings appreciated. That was the reason, that was the actual reason! "With no good camera controls we can get more stuff on the ceiling."

Aaaaand I just realized that despite my eternally optimistic attitude and actual desire to be excited about games DA3 will probably suck and I'm almost certainly wasting my time. Any company that could even consider ruining gameplay just for the sake of making sure ceilings are appreciated has clearly lost it.

[Atalanta]

Nyoka wrote...

^ I was told once that Zangief from street fighter was an example of the oversexualization of men in games.

That's ... unfortunate, lol.