74 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

Korusus wrote...

ZeshinX wrote...

They're EA games made by its Bioware division. The difference in feel, style, presentation, everything really is....off.

Agreed. It's noticeable even in Mass Effect 2 which was a great game with high production values...but there was still something not..quiiite right about it. Not quite BioWare.

I'm not really even excited about DA3. I hope BioWare can use more than words to convince us that all is not lost...but the guys who made Baldur's Gate a reality just left stage left the day after Dragon Age 3: Inquisition was announced. What are we as customers left with? Nothing because they aren't talking about the game. Hard to care anymore.

Bah.  The good doctors have changed drastically over the years. A Decade ago you could open up the game manual for BG2 and read an amazing  "note to the fans" preface from Muzyka and come out of  it nodding your head and saying:  Hell yeah, this guy  *gets* it.  May he grace the industry forever.    But then fast forward a decade  later and listen to him  telling the media  that   "the RPG genre  is becoming irrelevant".  Well?  As a guy who only plays RPGs, the   feeling I have today  after hearing about their retirement is:  So what.     Bye now, see ya.  there's the door.    May you both enjoy great success, but  far, far way from the game industry.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 septembre 2012 - 12:08 .

[marshalleck]

devSin wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

No, you're absolutely right ZeshinX. There will no longer be a voice of longtime Bioware veterans and advocates in the board room meetings. It's only going to decline from here.

It's possible.

But Aaryn is in charge now (and he's been around forever, even though he eventually sought comfort in the arms of another engine), and the DA team is still hotsauce. Maybe James could even come back north, as the new Creative Director of Creativity.

It's not until they start to leave that we're in trouble.

They already long ago lost the one writer who made Mass Effect good. Incidentally, it was during ME2 deveopment. I won't name names because you know, the Bioware people are sensitive like that and I don't want to get banned. But the person I'm thinking of is not the most obvious guess; this person was a bit more behind the scenes.

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 septembre 2012 - 12:03 .

[devSin]

They lost Drew and Chris, sure, but Luke is equally awesome, and he's still here (he just moved to DA full-time). David is also still here, and he has gathered some incredibly adept minions to his side (Shmaryl could easily supplant him one day, if he's not careful). Mark even found his way to the top, and you also have Mike and Yaron and others who trickled in after BG2.

Good people, all. I don't follow the other team too closely, but the people that need to be on this team are mostly all still on it (not all of them, but enough of them).

Modifié par devSin, 19 septembre 2012 - 12:29 .

[Rockworm503]

Tasmen wrote...

eroeru wrote...

Retiring in their early 40's? Something must be wrong, and not only the fans I deem.

Nothing wrong with retiring in your 40s.  I wish I could retire in my 40s.

You think anyone in game development could?  Chances are you're making more than they were.

[dukem73]

this is just the next nail in the coffin. bioware is going the same way as westwood, origin, mythic and all the other great gaming companies that died after being assimilated by ea.

in a few years www.bioware.com might lead you to a website where you have to purchase chips that you have to implant in your skin in order to play games, just like fans of origin systems have to live to see the domain misused for that terrible customer handcuffing drm website.

we've all seen the quality of bioware games deteriorating at a very fast pace since the company was acquired by ea. the doctors are just too political correct to **** on the table and also they would not want to harm the company. but both of them leaving is a clear sign that bioware is dying or already dead.

[EssEeeEcks]

No. Bioware was bought 5 years ago. There's usually a non compete clause in the contract when a company is acquired. I'll wager that's why they are leaving.

[docsteely]

dukem73 wrote...

this is just the next nail in the coffin. bioware is going the same way as westwood, origin, mythic and all the other great gaming companies that died after being assimilated by ea.

in a few years www.bioware.com might lead you to a website where you have to purchase chips that you have to implant in your skin in order to play games, just like fans of origin systems have to live to see the domain misused for that terrible customer handcuffing drm website.

we've all seen the quality of bioware games deteriorating at a very fast pace since the company was acquired by ea. the doctors are just too political correct to **** on the table and also they would not want to harm the company. but both of them leaving is a clear sign that bioware is dying or already dead.

Thank you!!! It's good to see real gamers are still around.

[crazyrabbits]

You shouldn't be asking yourself if M/Z's retirement will affect the game. You should be asking what effect Brent Knowles' departure back in '09 will have on the company going forward.

He was a guiding hand for all of BW's games up to DAII. Did BG/BG2, Jade Empire, DA:O...the works. He left because he either disagreed with the direction the game was going or he was forced out.

I know how DAII turned out without his influence - it's only the barest of threads that keeps me from writing III off outright.

[jstme]

Of course it would affect DA3. They were not just talking puppets but people with ideas and passion.
It does not automatically mean that DA3 will be worse then it would have been with them still in Bioware. Depends on people who replaced them (and those who stayed) and their ideas and passion.

But - without knowing any details and thus totally subjective opinion - i feel that the EA-Bioware will now move much faster (then before) away from RPG genre.

[JoltDealer]

marshalleck wrote...

No, you're absolutely right ZeshinX. There will no longer be a voice of longtime Bioware veterans and advocates in the board room meetings. It's only going to decline from here.

Their role was largely administrative towards the end.  Aside from the sadness we all feel from their loss, their retirement is not going to affect us nearly as much as those actually working at Bioware.  As for a voice of longtime Bioware veterans, Aaryn Flynn has been here well over a decade (12-15 years I think).  However if you truly believe or truly wish for Bioware to decline, then by all means you'll see what you choose to see.

In regards to your other comment, regardless of what your personal opinion on the quality of DA2, TOR, or ME3 is, it does not change the fact that all three games were big titles.  People who worked on those games and have them on their list of credentials could easily get a job somewhere else.  Although I very much doubt that the Doctors' retirement will trigger a mass exodus if anything at all.  The only thing I could see ruining Bioware right now is a lack of fan support.  Dragon Age 3: Inquisition was just announced yet I already see people writing it off and bashing it despite knowing virtually nothing about the game.

I know it's easy to become discouraged at times like these.  Dragon Age 2 was a mess and Mass Effect 3's original ending was the same, although many tend to forget the rest of the game (which was amazing in spite of the ending).  Bioware Devs are actively trying to work with fans and create the Dragon Age 3 that we all want to see, yet on here I see so many people metaphoricaly spitting in their faces.  This is a time of change, not destruction.  We should be excited and supportive, not cynical and rude.

Modifié par Crimson Sound, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Beerfish]

We simply do not know the whole story behind them leaving. It appeared that they still had a lot of power but there is no disputing that the last major projects chinks have appeared in the BioWare armour on some game decisions. Whether this was due to EA influence or just a change in strat at BioWare we don't know. Some of the things that have been a problem for me re the last few games happened with them still in charge so I doubt if things will suddenly get worse.

[labargegrrrl]

i think the biggest impact it will have on DAI will be in our perceptions as fans, not the game itself. this development is going to have huge impact of the ethos of the franchise.

whatever their reasons for leaving, whatever their plans for the future, i think i can only put my feelings about it into the simplest of terms:

thank you.

(for the franchise, i meen)  

Modifié par labargegrrrl, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:25 .

[JoltDealer]

Beerfish wrote...

We simply do not know the whole story behind them leaving. It appeared that they still had a lot of power but there is no disputing that the last major projects chinks have appeared in the BioWare armour on some game decisions. Whether this was due to EA influence or just a change in strat at BioWare we don't know. Some of the things that have been a problem for me re the last few games happened with them still in charge so I doubt if things will suddenly get worse.

Ray and Greg retired, they were not forced out like many of the Anti-EA Crusaders would like to believe.  My guess is after getting into the Hall of Fame earlier this year, they simply wanted to go out on a high note.  It's what I would've done.  And no, I don't mean that Bioware is going to have low notes, but getting into any Hall of Fame is a massive achievement.  There aren't a lot of things that are as prominent as that.

Either way I agree with the ****** in the armor statement.  Yes, EA has a record, but Bioware is already showing some promise with the way they've handled fan feedback for DA3.  I like to think that EA and Bioware needed to work out the kinks in the teamwork these last couple of years.

[Beerfish]

Crimson Sound wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

We simply do not know the whole story behind them leaving. It appeared that they still had a lot of power but there is no disputing that the last major projects chinks have appeared in the BioWare armour on some game decisions. Whether this was due to EA influence or just a change in strat at BioWare we don't know. Some of the things that have been a problem for me re the last few games happened with them still in charge so I doubt if things will suddenly get worse.

Ray and Greg retired, they were not forced out like many of the Anti-EA Crusaders would like to believe.  My guess is after getting into the Hall of Fame earlier this year, they simply wanted to go out on a high note.  It's what I would've done.  And no, I don't mean that Bioware is going to have low notes, but getting into any Hall of Fame is a massive achievement.  There aren't a lot of things that are as prominent as that.

Either way I agree with the ****** in the armor statement.  Yes, EA has a record, but Bioware is already showing some promise with the way they've handled fan feedback for DA3.  I like to think that EA and Bioware needed to work out the kinks in the teamwork these last couple of years.

If you have indisputable inside information to know for sure they retired then I will bow to your conviction.  I am not totally suggesting they were forced out but if EA pushed some bad decisions on them they may have decided they didn't want to be involved anymore.

[Vilegrim]

EA got them

[JoltDealer]

Beerfish wrote...

Crimson Sound wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

We simply do not know the whole story behind them leaving. It appeared that they still had a lot of power but there is no disputing that the last major projects chinks have appeared in the BioWare armour on some game decisions. Whether this was due to EA influence or just a change in strat at BioWare we don't know. Some of the things that have been a problem for me re the last few games happened with them still in charge so I doubt if things will suddenly get worse.

Ray and Greg retired, they were not forced out like many of the Anti-EA Crusaders would like to believe.  My guess is after getting into the Hall of Fame earlier this year, they simply wanted to go out on a high note.  It's what I would've done.  And no, I don't mean that Bioware is going to have low notes, but getting into any Hall of Fame is a massive achievement.  There aren't a lot of things that are as prominent as that.

Either way I agree with the ****** in the armor statement.  Yes, EA has a record, but Bioware is already showing some promise with the way they've handled fan feedback for DA3.  I like to think that EA and Bioware needed to work out the kinks in the teamwork these last couple of years.

If you have indisputable inside information to know for sure they retired then I will bow to your conviction.  I am not totally suggesting they were forced out but if EA pushed some bad decisions on them they may have decided they didn't want to be involved anymore.

The official statement from both of them is that they retired, which you can read in their letters posted on the Bioware Blog.  Aside from the reasons they already gave in those same statements, I know nothing else.  Also, these statements have been backed up by Aaryn Flynn on the blog and by Chris Priestly repeatedly here on the forums.  Inside information would be needed to confirm otherwise.  Until then, all we have is Anti-EA, fan conjecture.  You don't have to bow to my convictions in any way, shape, or form, but this is the logic I'm operating based on.

Modifié par Crimson Sound, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:01 .

[ZeshinX]

Crimson Sound wrote...
The official statement from both of them is that they retired, which you can read in their letters posted on the Bioware Blog.  Aside from the reasons they already gave in those same statements, I know nothing else.  Also, these statements have been backed up by Aaryn Flynn on the blog and by Chris Priestly repeatedly here on the forums.  Inside information would be needed to confirm otherwise.  Until then, all we have is Anti-EA, fan conjecture.  You don't have to bow to my convictions in any way, shape, or form, but this is the logic I'm operating based on.

It is indeed all conjecture, though I wouldn't necessarily ascribe it to only Anti-EA voices.  We'll never know the reality outside the official statements (perhaps 20 years from now, if anyone still cares, we might, if there is indeed some additional "truth" to the matter) which is true in any place of business, and as it should be.  I personally look to EA's track record of its acquisitions and the duration of said record.  I have no desire to see EA/Bioware suddenly erupt in flames or collapse or anything of the sort.  Quite the contrary, I hope they continue making successful games, since they are both populated by some truly incredible and talented people.

I also have several friends working in the industry, one with close connections to both Bioware and EA, and I've heard a bit about the internal goings on.  Granted, what I hear is very much 2nd and 3rd hand, but much of what I've heard in the past has come to be, more or less.  The inclusion of a multiplayer element into ME3 for example.  I haven't heard of any grand conspiracy or concerted efforts to force the good Doctors out any sooner than they wanted to, but EAs influence on the way Bioware makes games is absolutely increasing, in both welcome and unwelcome ways, or so I'm told.

For me, personally, at this point in time I'm inclined to lean towards thinking Bioware will go the way of previous studios EA has acquired.  Not that EA will destroy it in the sense they will launch tactical nukes into Bioware or anything, just that they will eventually be absorbed into EA as a whole and Bioware will just be a brand name.  They will make EA games, not Bioware games (as far as I define those terms).

I'm no prophet, I just let time do its thing.  In between I just scribble/type out my own thoughts, if for no other reason than to get those thoughts out of my head in favour of other ones.

[Shinobu]

Cultist wrote...

Well, now that we know that Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka is retiring from BioWare the question is - will this affect developement of Dragon Age 3?

I wonder if the opposite is true: that the outcome of ME3 affected their decision to retire.

I hope there will still be someone at Bioware who looks out for the devs.

[Merlinbird]

It is sad to say Good-Bye, but sometimes some people just need a change so that they do not get burned out, or just for mental health reasons. Best Wishes Ray and Greg.

[upsettingshorts]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

eroeru wrote...

Retiring in their early 40's? Something must be wrong, and not only the fans I deem.

Nothing wrong with retiring in your 40s.  I wish I could retire in my 40s.

You think anyone in game development could?  Chances are you're making more than they were.

Do you seriously believe that Senior Vice Presidents at Electronic Arts don't make good money?

Are you mad?

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't think anyone should worry about the financial status of Ray or Greg as they move on in life.

[LadyWench]

I can't believe it. For the first time ever, I heard a rumor on BSN before I read it on a legitimate news site. This information makes me a sad panda. Well, I wish them luck.

[deuce985]

I doubt you'll notice their departure having much impact on the short-term. DA3 probably won't change much. I'm assuming most of their current team is under contract until at least their part is done? Long-term? That has me worried for Bioware's future.

While I try to stay optimistic, this can't be viewed as something good for Bioware. If you look at almost any dev in history who lost their founders, the quality eventually dipped and so did the studios. I think the only studio that comes to mind that actually lost their original founders and then still rose to success is Naughty Dog? Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong?

Anyways, I'd imagine Bioware will be fine as long as their core teams stick around. The problem is getting them to stay. I've seen this happen to many studios who lost their founders. Short-term, not much happens. Once they get done with their projects, they leave. It's inevitable. New management will be coming in and some of these guys aren't going to like it.

I find it very curious they retired together. Despite what they say, I think corporate pressure was just too much for the doctors. It's not a coincidence EA views SWTOR as a major flop and shortly after, the doctors retire.  I said the day the doctors leave Bioware is the day I get concerned. Now I'm concerned. The good thing is Bioware seems to be very passionate and it seems these guys really love their co-workers. I'm hoping that keeps the core teams around years later...

Modifié par deuce985, 20 septembre 2012 - 07:09 .

[Emzamination]

deuce985 wrote...

I doubt you'll notice their departure having much impact on the short-term. DA3 probably won't change much. I'm assuming most of their current team is under contract until at least their part is done? Long-term? That has me worried for Bioware's future.

While I try to stay optimistic, this can't be viewed as something good for Bioware. If you look at almost any dev in history who lost their founders, the quality eventually dipped and so did the studios. I think the only studio that comes to mind that actually lost their original founders and then still rose to success is Naughty Dog? Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong?

Anyways, I'd imagine Bioware will be fine as long as their core teams stick around. The problem is getting them to stay. I've seen this happen to many studios who lost their founders. Short-term, not much happens. Once they get done with their projects, they leave. It's inevitable. New management will be coming in and some of these guys aren't going to like it.

I find it very curious they retired together. Despite what they say, I think corporate pressure was just too much for the doctors. It's not a coincidence EA views SWTOR as a major flop and shortly after, the doctors retire.  I said the day the doctors leave Bioware is the day I get concerned. Now I'm concerned. The good thing is Bioware seems to be very passionate and it seems these guys really love their co-workers. I'm hoping that keeps the core teams around years later...

I was worried too till I heard the new bioware Gm green lit mass effect 4, then all those woeful feelings were replaced by warm fuzzy fan girling and screaming I trust in this Flynn implicitly, even tho I don't know a thing about him other than he green lit mass effect 4 but that's enough of a top notch resume for me.

Modifié par Emzamination, 20 septembre 2012 - 07:57 .

[keyip]

deuce985 wrote...

While I try to stay optimistic, this can't be viewed as something good
for Bioware. If you look at almost any dev in history who lost their
founders, the quality eventually dipped and so did the studios. I think
the only studio that comes to mind that actually lost their original
founders and then still rose to success is Naughty Dog? Somebody please
correct me if I'm wrong?

Bethesda. Not only lost their founder but a lot of their talent after Morrowind was released. They were replaced with Todd Howard and his posse. Most people were mocking Bethesda just before and right after Oblivion was released (because Oblivion was a piece of ****,) predicting Bethesda to fail spectacularly, mocking "I love Halo" Howard, saying they were alienating their core fan base, that they would shut down, go broke etc etc.

Then Fallout 3 was released... and then Skyrim................

Modifié par keyip, 01 octobre 2012 - 11:15 .