210 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Jasuke34 wrote...

Honestly, I guess it comes back to story. They may have great gameplay, but their stories are lacking. ME2 I was pretty much "meh" when someone died. In DA2 I could care less about my companions. In ME3, the ending left me feeling empty and depressed. The last time a Bioware game made me feel was in ME3 when I killed Mordin. And that was vaguely anthing. 

Considering they have mostly the same writers, what are you trying to say then... "Write better?"  I'm sure they're doing their best, but it's hardly specific.  

Plus I'm not sure if that makes ME2/3, DA2 "rushed" although the latter objectively was.  When you call a game rushed it makes it sound like you're referring to a lack of content, not a failure to connect with the narrative.

[Ravenmyste]

This is my own personal opinion, honestly, but I am basing it on emotional connection to the games. In DAO, I saw Alistair as a brother and Morrigan as a lover. In Jade Empire, the tragic betrayal stunned me and left me gaping. In ME1, I was nearly in tears over the choice between Ash and Kaiden. In KOTOR, the twist near the end left me in awe and I felt a true connection to the PC.

I have not felt any emotional depth in recent Bioware Games. Honestly, I guess it comes back to story. They may have great gameplay, but their stories are lacking. ME2 I was pretty much "meh" when someone died. In DA2 I could care less about my companions. In ME3, the ending left me feeling empty and depressed. The last time a Bioware game made me feel was in ME3 when I killed Mordin. And that was vaguely anything.

 you  do know that you shouldnt really have any connection to any characters whatsoever its called a game, i have no feeling for all the companions and what not ,so yes you are putting yourself up for great upset in thinking that  they have to redeem themselves to you in your eyes... which they wont  so you cry about something that was feeling like you had no connection and or didnt feel connected to a character any more to care about them in the first place.. sorry but that doesnt fly..

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[Ravenmyste]

RAGING_BULL wrote...

The title of this thread is exactly why people called us all entitled..

So many people had that same mentality

aye at least there few that  can say they liked the games i loved me3 and  undertsood what the choices of the endings, dragon age  32 i loved it didnt mind the reuse since we did go to the same cave few times. and or all inside houses almost looked the same so what  old games used the same thing

[legbamel]

3 While I'm playing the hell out of SWTOR right now, I desperately want a continuation of the story in Thedas. I have found no other company's RPGs as immersive, particlarly with regard to choosing your gender and ss relationships. I want more!

That said, if they take beloved characters and turn them into lovelorn beefcake like they did a certain, beloved fellow in ME3 (or abandon his established character to kill him off like another beloved, green fellow) I'm going to take my toys and go home. New love interests are great but I hope the writers of any returning folks do their homework.

[LegendaryBlade]

I don't really know if Dragonage can be saved. The problem with DA2 was that it was Dragonage for people who don't like Dragonage, which is the exact opposite way to make a sequel. How often do you see people who enjoyed DA2 call DA:O boring? While people who liked the original complain that the second one was practically a lazy beat em up with RPG elements.

No they're in an awkward position where they have polarized fans. Sure there are people who like both, but the majority of people vastly prefer one over the other and given how much better DA:O did both financially and critically i'd say the number lean in favor of it.

Best solution would be to try to win back their core fans from DA:O

RAGING_BULL wrote...

The title of this thread is exactly why people called us all entitled..

So many people had that same mentality

Consumers think are entitled to quality products.

Fancy that.

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:33 .

[LegendaryBlade]

EDIT: Double post

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:32 .

[Jasuke34]

Ravenmyste wrote...

This is my own personal opinion, honestly, but I am basing it on emotional connection to the games. In DAO, I saw Alistair as a brother and Morrigan as a lover. In Jade Empire, the tragic betrayal stunned me and left me gaping. In ME1, I was nearly in tears over the choice between Ash and Kaiden. In KOTOR, the twist near the end left me in awe and I felt a true connection to the PC.

I have not felt any emotional depth in recent Bioware Games. Honestly, I guess it comes back to story. They may have great gameplay, but their stories are lacking. ME2 I was pretty much "meh" when someone died. In DA2 I could care less about my companions. In ME3, the ending left me feeling empty and depressed. The last time a Bioware game made me feel was in ME3 when I killed Mordin. And that was vaguely anything.

 you  do know that you shouldnt really have any connection to any characters whatsoever its called a game, i have no feeling for all the companions and what not ,so yes you are putting yourself up for great upset in thinking that  they have to redeem themselves to you in your eyes... which they wont  so you cry about something that was feeling like you had no connection and or didnt feel connected to a character any more to care about them in the first place.. sorry but that doesnt fly..

A game. Yes it is a game. The Smithsonian Museum of Art recently added video games to be categorized as Art. I view video games in the same vein as literature and other forms of art. Art is meant to inspire humanity. To give us "feelings."

So I disagree with you fundamentally there. I am not saying I am entitled to this at all. I am merely sayinng that if this game does not live up to my expectations I will not be buying anymore of their products. Would you continue buying from an author who is a horrible writer?

I love their games. I love the work and quality Bioware has made. I am just asking them to not settle for less.

[Dessalines]

1)I don't think Bioware needs to redeem themselves, just tweak somethings. I would play any of the Bioware games mention in this thread


1)As I put in my signature, most rpgs that people considered good are hack and slash rpgs They have amazingly bad stories in which nothing you do matters. You can be the head of all the guilds, and everyone treats you the same. One person even continues to threaten you with the guild that you are in charge of. It is amazing how nothing matters. Bards do not even know you are the Dragonborn that they are singing about, and you can even tell them. I actually engage in physical activity in the outside world, so I really do not want to walk around for 20 minutes in Skyrim.
2)If I had to choose wave or respawn villians. I am picking wave.
3)Witcher, Fables, and others(I don't care if your game is based on a book that won a Nobel Prize in Literature, if you cannot figure out way to imagine a way for a character creation system to include a variety of different skin tones and other physical characteristics, then I am not impressed and I am not wasting my money.

[Tasmen]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

I don't really know if Dragonage can be saved. The problem with DA2 was that it was Dragonage for people who don't like Dragonage, which is the exact opposite way to make a sequel. How often do you see people who enjoyed DA2 call DA:O boring? While people who liked the original complain that the second one was practically a lazy beat em up with RPG elements.

No they're in an awkward position where they have polarized fans. Sure there are people who like both, but the majority of people vastly prefer one over the other and given how much better DA:O did both financially and critically i'd say the number lean in favor of it.

Best solution would be to try to win back their core fans from DA:O

Whaaaaaaaaaat?

A Dragon Age for people that didn't like Dragon Age?  I'm not saying that DA2 was a perfect game.  It wasn't.  I had my own issues with it.  But to say it is a DA for people that don't like DA is total crap.  It still felt like the DA-verse to me and I love this franchise's setting probably more than any other RPG I play. 

You certainly are making a huge generalization and I'd be interested to hear how you would back up such an assertion with something other than just your 'feels'.

[LegendaryBlade]

Tasmen wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

I don't really know if Dragonage can be saved. The problem with DA2 was that it was Dragonage for people who don't like Dragonage, which is the exact opposite way to make a sequel. How often do you see people who enjoyed DA2 call DA:O boring? While people who liked the original complain that the second one was practically a lazy beat em up with RPG elements.

No they're in an awkward position where they have polarized fans. Sure there are people who like both, but the majority of people vastly prefer one over the other and given how much better DA:O did both financially and critically i'd say the number lean in favor of it.

Best solution would be to try to win back their core fans from DA:O

Whaaaaaaaaaat?

A Dragon Age for people that didn't like Dragon Age?  I'm not saying that DA2 was a perfect game.  It wasn't.  I had my own issues with it.  But to say it is a DA for people that don't like DA is total crap.  It still felt like the DA-verse to me and I love this franchise's setting probably more than any other RPG I play. 

You certainly are making a huge generalization and I'd be interested to hear how you would back up such an assertion with something other than just your 'feels'.

How about the fact that DA2 was an extremely front loaded game in sales, doing extremely well in preorders and then dropping significantly as information about the game spread. To the point that Dragonage: Origins significantly outsold it. Or how about how poorly DA2 did critically in comparison to the first game? How about just going through the threads. How often do you see the people who do prefer DA2 calling the original 'Boring" or "Clunky" and essentially coming off as people who don't even like RPGs?

How often do you see people who are fans of DA:O call DA2 'Streamlined' or 'Dumbed down'? Have you even played the two games? Dragonage: Origins plays like a top down tactical RPG while Dragonage 2 plays like a beat'em up. Even on the highest difficulty as a mage I was more often just cutting through waves of enemies. When I say "DA2 was a Dragonage for people who didn't like Dragonage" I mean that they are almost entirely different genres of game. They play nothing alike, and for every bit of tactical requirement or difficulty the original had you can sail through DA2 with little to no challenge just button mashing.

RAGING_BULL wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

I don't really know if Dragonage can be saved. The problem with DA2 was that it was Dragonage for people who don't like Dragonage, which is the exact opposite way to make a sequel. How often do you see people who enjoyed DA2 call DA:O boring? While people who liked the original complain that the second one was practically a lazy beat em up with RPG elements.

No they're in an awkward position where they have polarized fans. Sure there are people who like both, but the majority of people vastly prefer one over the other and given how much better DA:O did both financially and critically i'd say the number lean in favor of it.

Best solution would be to try to win back their core fans from DA:O

RAGING_BULL wrote...

The title of this thread is exactly why people called us all entitled..

So many people had that same mentality

Consumers think are entitled to quality products.

Fancy that.

Nice sarcasm. Consumers can demand whatever they want but talking about how they need to redeem themselves does us no good when giving criticism or talking about their games

 

Except that's exactly how the developer/consumer relationship works in terms of consumer loyalty. If a business makes a bad move, or a series of them, and fails to redeem themselves it's perfectly logical, if not expected, that they lose a portion of their fanbase. Why do thinkt hat when DA2 was annoucned they tried to directly respond to some of the common complaints such as reused maps or character armor. Bioware is trying to make up for things they know weren't received well.

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:42 .

[AtreiyaN7]

The only thing that happens when I occasionally pop in to read threads like these now is that it induces eyerolling at the melodrama. I keep hoping to find something interesting, yet I am constantly disappointed.

*rolleyes*

[upsettingshorts]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

How about the fact that DA2 was an extremely front loaded game in sales, doing extremely well in preorders and then dropping significantly as information about the game spread. To the point that Dragonage: Origins significantly outsold it. Or how about how poorly DA2 did critically in comparison to the first game? How about just going through the threads. How often do you see the people who do prefer DA2 calling the original 'Boring" or "Clunky" and essentially coming off as people who don't even like RPGs?

How often do you see people who are fans of DA:O call DA2 'Streamlined' or 'Dumbed down'? Have you even played the two games? Dragonage: Origins plays like a top down tactical RPG while Dragonage 2 plays like a beat'em up. Even on the highest difficulty as a mage I was more often just cutting through waves of enemies. When I say "DA2 was a Dragonage for people who didn't like Dragonage" I mean that they are almost entirely different genres of game. They play nothing alike, and for every bit of tactical requirement or difficulty the original had you can sail through DA2 with little to no challenge just button mashing.

I see a lot of people who are often wrong about a lot of things.

That covers pretty much every group you mention.  

So while I wouldn't say you in particular are in "good" company with them, well.. at least you've got company.

[BlazingSpeed]

Persephone wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

After playing Dragon's dogma and skyrim, I now fully understand that bioware is the only game company in this universe where I'm going to get good romance in a Rpg so I'm staying right here through thick and thin.

Haven`t played The Witcher, have you?

Played it.

The "romance" was horrible in both of them.

Plainly ignoring Shani to put Geralt in bed with Triss to introduce her ass first sure wasn't brilliant writing.

Maybe Yennefer will be different.

Hopefully Yennefer will be different from the Triss one I choose Shani because of the Human and "Witcher" angle I hate Triss with a passion even though Triss and Geralt do have some interesting convo's (about Geralt's memory and wanting to run away and leave it all behind while visions of Yen haunt Geralts dreams etc...) in both witcher games.

The Morrigan romance was really good even though you need to use a mod to get the most out of it though.

[avatar0]

If we are going with the OP's Dark Knight Rises analogy, then I have to say that Bioware is in a pit called ME3 endings right now.

If there's any redemption to be had, it must start with Bioware climbing out of that.

Making DA3 is like Gordon and company doing their thing in Gotham.
It wont matter much, if Bioware doesn't get its **** together and climb out of the ME3 hell hole.
Seriously, just fix the endings so we can all move on to the next part of the script. (And no, EC is not a fix, it's Bioware trying desperately to save face and failing, which is ok if it would just fix the endings already!)

Modifié par avatar0, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:49 .

[Rockpopple]

Very few developers go out to make a bad game. Most of them want to make the best they can, and AAA developers like BioWare moreso.

Yeah, BioWare can be hella frustrating like, all the time, but I have no doubt they're gonna work their ass off to deliver the best product they can. Whether or not they'll be successful is yet to be seen.

I wish them good luck. For my sake. I like playing good rpgs. I also hope that they take the time to work out the goddamned bugs for the Sony platform, whichever one it'll end up being.

[Tasmen]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

How about the fact that DA2 was an extremely front loaded game in sales, doing extremely well in preorders and then dropping significantly as information about the game spread. To the point that Dragonage: Origins significantly outsold it. Or how about how poorly DA2 did critically in comparison to the first game? How about just going through the threads. How often do you see the people who do prefer DA2 calling the original 'Boring" or "Clunky" and essentially coming off as people who don't even like RPGs?

How often do you see people who are fans of DA:O call DA2 'Streamlined' or 'Dumbed down'? Have you even played the two games? Dragonage: Origins plays like a top down tactical RPG while Dragonage 2 plays like a beat'em up. Even on the highest difficulty as a mage I was more often just cutting through waves of enemies. When I say "DA2 was a Dragonage for people who didn't like Dragonage" I mean that they are almost entirely different genres of game. They play nothing alike, and for every bit of tactical requirement or difficulty the original had you can sail through DA2 with little to no challenge just button mashing.

None of that answers my question.  I still do not see how DA2 was a Dragon Age for people that hated DAO.  You are pointing out what you see as flaws (some of which I won't disagree with), but that in no way shows that the game was made to ****** off what you dub the 'core' fanbase.  There's an implication there that I find just astounding.

You are making assumptions about intentions and using sales #'s and combat changes as evidence to support your assumptions. 

Like I said, DA2 was not a perfect game, but I still feel it was a Dragon Age game.  For me,  a franchise is far more than how much it sells or the combat.  The story is key and the story felt DA-verse centric and not a departure.  

[KotorEffect3]

Watch when this one is released people will whine about it even if it has everything they want and addresses their grievances with DA 2. Then the ME 3 haters will start liking it at DA 2 will be called a classic by those same people that whined about it when it came out and thus the cycle of hating new games while worshiping older games will continue. The pattern has repeated itself many times of internet gaming forums. This thread is simply a repeat of a thread that happened in the last cycle.

[Vox Draco]

BlazingSpeed wrote...

Hopefully Yennefer will be different from the Triss one I choose Shani because of the Human and "Witcher" angle I hate Triss with a passion even though Triss and Geralt do have some interesting convo's (about Geralt's memory and wanting to run away and leave it all behind while visions of Yen haunt Geralts dreams etc...) in both witcher games.

As Yennefer is, according to the books and stories, Geralt one true love it might get really interesting. And their love had some real ... difficulties along the way...but in the end, when the evil Djinn was banished they at least had a good time in that ravaged building...but really, if Yennefer is featured in a Witcher 3 a "real" lovestory is a must...though hopefully true to the mood established in the books...

Witcher interlude over, continue with thread please!

[LegendaryBlade]

Tasmen wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

How about the fact that DA2 was an extremely front loaded game in sales, doing extremely well in preorders and then dropping significantly as information about the game spread. To the point that Dragonage: Origins significantly outsold it. Or how about how poorly DA2 did critically in comparison to the first game? How about just going through the threads. How often do you see the people who do prefer DA2 calling the original 'Boring" or "Clunky" and essentially coming off as people who don't even like RPGs?

How often do you see people who are fans of DA:O call DA2 'Streamlined' or 'Dumbed down'? Have you even played the two games? Dragonage: Origins plays like a top down tactical RPG while Dragonage 2 plays like a beat'em up. Even on the highest difficulty as a mage I was more often just cutting through waves of enemies. When I say "DA2 was a Dragonage for people who didn't like Dragonage" I mean that they are almost entirely different genres of game. They play nothing alike, and for every bit of tactical requirement or difficulty the original had you can sail through DA2 with little to no challenge just button mashing.

None of that answers my question.  I still do not see how DA2 was a Dragon Age for people that hated DAO.  You are pointing out what you see as flaws (some of which I won't disagree with), but that in no way shows that the game was made to ****** off what you dub the 'core' fanbase.  There's an implication there that I find just astounding.

You are making assumptions about intentions and using sales #'s and combat changes as evidence to support your assumptions. 

Like I said, DA2 was not a perfect game, but I still feel it was a Dragon Age game.  For me,  a franchise is far more than how much it sells or the combat.  The story is key and the story felt DA-verse centric and not a departure.  

You obviously did not read my post then, see the bolded.

Dragonage 2 is an entirely seperate genre. It's easier, plays differently, and even uses different story telling styles. Not just different, but some that could even be called opposite in nature. One is an Tactical RPG the other is an Action RPG that's nearly a beat em up. One has an emphasis on strategy and difficulty while another is easy and simple. A game sequel, especially a -direct- sequel as DA2 is, should really not be such a drastic formula change, especially one that is in such direct inverse to the original formula. It's as if they were more interested in a new audience than their old one. (Oh wait, they were)

EDIT: And if we eally want to ignore the gameplay, lets consider the setup. They throw away a huge majority of the character customization, including races and origins. They make it a specific, character focused story with what is more or less a premade lead. The story is hardly universe-centric when it has such an extremely minor barring on the world as a whole, infact due to it's disjointed nature it nearly had no story at all.

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:57 .

[upsettingshorts]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Watch when this one is released people will whine about it even if it has everything they want and addresses their grievances with DA 2. Then the ME 3 haters will start liking it at DA 2 will be called a classic by those same people that whined about it when it came out and thus the cycle of hating new games while worshiping older games will continue. The pattern has repeated itself many times of internet gaming forums. This thread is simply a repeat of a thread that happened in the last cycle.

Yeah, the stuff ME3 does to answer the criticisms of ME2 was ignored with such speed and thoroughness by the community you'd think they got together and planned it.

It's pretty routine around here.

LegendaryBlade wrote...

One is an Tactical RPG the other is an Action RPG that's nearly a beat em up. 

 

Definte "tactical RPG" and  "action RPG," be sure to include what features are unique to each "genre."

Define the ways in which the combat mechanics are different in Dragon Age 2 when compared to Dragon Age: Origins.  Be thorough, and show your work. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:58 .

[Maverick827]

And how many chances is this fanbase going to give itself to grow up?