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Casey Hudson wants to hear fan's ideas on a new mass effect game


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#5151
The13Inquisitor

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I would prefer it to be set in the Milky Way, and a lot darker than the previous few games.

 

Mass Effect was plenty dark enough if you read between the lines and what the lore doesn't say.

 

It touched on cultural genocide, racial discrimination, corporate entrapment and exploitation, political corruption, forced sterilization and probably a lot more I can't list off the top of my head.

 

Bottom line is that it isn't what is mentioned and takes focus in Mass Effect that makes it dark.

 

It's what is put in and touched on but doesn't take center stage.

 

Besides, if you go and make a setting 'dark' for the sake of it, you end up with something needlessly edgy and pretentious.

 

Warhammer 40,000 suffers a lot from this and it's not a track Mass Effect needs to take.


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#5152
Heimdall

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Besides, if you go and make a setting 'dark' for the sake of it, you end up with something needlessly edgy and pretentious.
 
Warhammer 40,000 suffers a lot from this and it's not a track Mass Effect needs to take.

But that's what makes WH40K fun! The sheer ridiculousness of it all is half of what makes it attractive, so I wouldn't say it "suffers".  As the TVTrope page says "While some settings try to be 'darker and edgier', WH40K paints itself black and flings itself into the abyss screaming 'WAAAAGH'" B)

 

But yeah, Mass Effect shouldn't follow that example.


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#5153
The13Inquisitor

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But that's what makes WH40K fun! The sheer ridiculousness of it all is half of what makes it attractive, so I wouldn't say it "suffers".  As the TVTrope page says "While some settings try to be 'darker and edgier', WH40K paints itself black and flings itself into the abyss screaming 'WAAAAGH'" B)

 

But yeah, Mass Effect shouldn't follow that example.

 

Fair point, but 40k has more or less reached the point where it's developed a sort of self-awareness to just how messed up it is as a setting, and it's just decided to be ironic about the whole thing.

 

Mass Effect just doesn't follow the same sort of 'ridiculously over-the-top' logic 40k does.

 

There's no logic-defyng, reality-bending race of hyer-violent cockney orks, for a start, unless you want to count Asari on acid.



#5154
Heimdall

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Fair point, but 40k has more or less reached the point where it's developed a sort of self-awareness to just how messed up it is as a setting, and it's just decided to be ironic about the whole thing.

 

Mass Effect just doesn't follow the same sort of 'ridiculously over-the-top' logic 40k does.

 

There's no logic-defyng, reality-bending race of hyer-violent cockney orks, for a start, unless you want to count Asari on acid.

I don't think it ever took itself that seriously, it started as Warhammer-Fantasy IN SPACE after all, but yes you're right.


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#5155
Iakus

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Besides, if you go and make a setting 'dark' for the sake of it, you end up with something needlessly edgy and pretentious.

 

ME3 certainly sprinted across that line.


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#5156
Ecol-i

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I would like the story to be a bit more "contained" if you will, meaning that I wish it didn't involve saving the galaxy or humanity or whatnot; something more personal, a story focused on the survival of you and your team for example, or that an A.I. takes control of your ship, I don't know! anything that doesn't involve a grand bombastic quest to save life as we know it... At least ME2 handled the "save humanity" theme in a "galactic criminal underground" way, that's what I love about it...


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#5157
Mr. Homebody

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Yep, what Inquisition needed was 50% fewer fetch quests and 2-4 more hearty main story quests, as well as a 300% increase in cinematic conversations.

 

I know I sound like some kind of quarterly earnings report, but it's late. The point is, ME4 needs not to repeat Inquisition's particularly troubling ratio. Alas, I fear it shall.

 

Oh well, space hype anyway.

 

In my opinion Inquisition needed 100% fewer fetch quests. Fetch quests belong to boring MMO games. In singleplayer game it is nothing more than cheap way to extend lifespan of the game. 
 
But it does not work anymore, at least not for me. I like a lot of things in DA:I including main story and companions but I can't force myself to play this game again because of ridiculous amount of these meaningless fillers. 
 
I am playing now Darksders 2. Funny thing, this game is not considered as rpg and yet it is so much better than DA:I in terms of storytelling structure, side quests ratio and world exploration. 


#5158
Anouk

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I hope the protagonist is a young female/male student person with no millitary experiece.

And that he/she grow and fail in the game, learning, gets older and hard choices to deal with that form him/her.

 

DA/DAI is more rpg then the Mass effect games is my experience. (maybey it feels more rpg though)


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#5159
Oldren Shepard

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ME3 certainly sprinted across that line.

like what?



#5160
Tonymac

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like what?

Like a jaguar on fire running full tilt into a mulcher that is right on the other side of the finish line.  Its sort of like playing a video game where none of your choices matter and you then choose which color of death smells the tastiest.


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#5161
Andrew Lucas

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Oh yes, the ending again, what a shock!

Good thing that's subjective.
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#5162
Torgette

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I hope the protagonist is a young female/male student person with no millitary experiece.

And that he/she grow and fail in the game, learning, gets older and hard choices to deal with that form him/her.

 

DA/DAI is more rpg then the Mass effect games is my experience. (maybey it feels more rpg though)

 

All the Dragon Age games have a "thrown into the fire" and "wrong place wrong time" theme to their main characters, Mass Effect on the flip side started with an N7 barrier meaning no matter what you're going to be a professional. They could always start this next game by promoting somebody to N7 out of desperation I guess?


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#5163
The13Inquisitor

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Oh yes, the ending again, what a shock!

Good thing that's subjective.

 

Destroy is the only ending that doesn't leave the Reapers wiggle room to continue committing xenocide. Nothing subjective about it.

 

All the Dragon Age games have a "thrown into the fire" and "wrong place wrong time" theme to their main characters, Mass Effect on the flip side started with an N7 barrier meaning no matter what you're going to be a professional. They could always start this next game by promoting somebody to N7 out of desperation I guess?

 

I actually like the sound of what was in that alleged marketing survey: A combat-trained but untested explorer sounds a lot more like Mass Effect than the 'into the fire'\'wrong place wrong time' that Dragon Age Player Characters have going for them.


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#5164
GalacticWolf5

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Destroy is the only ending that doesn't leave the Reapers wiggle room to continue committing xenocide. Nothing subjective about it.


Are you serious right now?

In Synthesis, they live alongside everyone and they won't start the cycles again because Synthesis is what they've been trying to achieve. It's the solution to the Organic/Synthetic conflict.

In Control, Shepard controls the Reapers. Why would he commit xenocide? Tho, he could if he wanted to, but he wouldnt do it. Anyways, he would have to order the Reapers to do it, they can't do it on their own.
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#5165
Torgette

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Are you serious right now?

In Synthesis, they live alongside everyone and they won't start the cycles again because Synthesis is what they've been trying to achieve. It's the solution to the Organic/Synthetic conflict.

In Control, Shepard controls the Reapers. Why would he commit xenocide? Tho, he could if he wanted to, but he wouldnt do it. Anyways, he would have to order the Reapers to do it, they can't do it on their own.

 

For me Destroy was the only one that allowed the milky way to build its own future instead of just evolving the one mistakenly set by the creators of the reapers. That said all of the choices were too idyllic anyways, contrast and depth of consequences aren't the same thing, they had no depth.


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#5166
Torgette

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Destroy is the only ending that doesn't leave the Reapers wiggle room to continue committing xenocide. Nothing subjective about it.

 

 

I actually like the sound of what was in that alleged marketing survey: A combat-trained but untested explorer sounds a lot more like Mass Effect than the 'into the fire'\'wrong place wrong time' that Dragon Age Player Characters have going for them.

 

It'd be fun if your companions had more experience than the PC in this next game and were giving you advice, whereas in ME1 Shepard dwarfed everybody else from the get-go and asking for advice.


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#5167
Andrew Lucas

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Destroy is the only ending that doesn't leave the Reapers wiggle room to continue committing xenocide. Nothing subjective about it.
 

 
I actually like the sound of what was in that alleged marketing survey: A combat-trained but untested explorer sounds a lot more like Mass Effect than the 'into the fire'\'wrong place wrong time' that Dragon Age Player Characters have going for them.


Annnnnd... you miss the point.

#5168
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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It'd be fun if your companions had more experience than the PC in this next game and were giving you advice, whereas in ME1 Shepard dwarfed everybody else from the get-go and asking for advice.

 

Except Wrex. 

 

He's just too lazy to give advice. edit: err... except at Virmire.



#5169
themikefest

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I'm not a fan of Wrex and rarely recruit him and that's only if I want him to last beyond Virmire



#5170
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I'm not a fan of Wrex and rarely recruit him and that's only if I want him to last beyond Virmire

 

That's OK... but he's not being schooled by Shepard on much. That's all I meant.

 

If anything, Shepard's giving him some sense of hope or making him think about his people again. "I joined you because I wanted to fight for more than credits"... but he easily has more experience than Shep.



#5171
Tonymac

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It'd be fun if your companions had more experience than the PC in this next game and were giving you advice, whereas in ME1 Shepard dwarfed everybody else from the get-go and asking for advice.

 

Well, being a military man means I can share some insight with you.  Usually the person in charge in a group is the one with the most experience.  That's why we called the Captain "The Old Man".  

 

A guy/gal who is in charge and constantly has a need of advice will surely get the team killed/captured/compromised of some combination of those.  Game devs know this, and try to put the player character in the position of "fearless leader who leads from the front."  In reality these types of people are extraordinarily rare, and normally have exceedingly short lifespans unless they know exactly what they are doing. In the video game world we can play Shepard/Hero get a critical mission failure and learn from those mistakes, so things work out rather well.  From the safety of our couches and the comfort of our computer chairs we can enjoy great battles with Banshees and giant sentient robots that would leave mere mortals frozen stiff with shock and terror.


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#5172
The13Inquisitor

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Are you serious right now?

In Synthesis, they live alongside everyone and they won't start the cycles again because Synthesis is what they've been trying to achieve. It's the solution to the Organic/Synthetic conflict.

In Control, Shepard controls the Reapers. Why would he commit xenocide? Tho, he could if he wanted to, but he wouldnt do it. Anyways, he would have to order the Reapers to do it, they can't do it on their own.

 

I'm quite serious:

 

Control and Synthesis both allow the Reapers to live.

 

And really, you expect the Catalyst,-an eons old AI that has been committing xenocide for the majority of its existence like clockwork,-to be upfront and honest about those two options?

 

Control basically makes Shepard the Catalyst. I'm paraphrasing, but the Catalyst says: "You will die. You will be reborn with the same values and morals, but without organic emotions."

 

Shepard becomes immortal, without any company. Eventually, he'll live to see organics continue making mistakes after his friends are long dead and who's to say he doesn't decide to step in and basically become a benevolent, immortal tyrant, or just become the Catalyst 2.0?

 

Synthesis basically Reaperises every organic in the galaxy capable of calculus, but nothing is said about what it does to the Reapers. They already are organic and synthetic hybrids. Basically, it makes the fighting stop...and it infers it doesn't do a damn thing to the Reapers, so this is basically Bad End, because it can be assumed the Reapers could still harvest everyone at some point.

 

Destroy suffers from the same uncertainty as to the trustworthiness of the Catalyst and proves it outright lied, because Shepard survives firing the Crucible in this ending, taking the post credit shot of Shepard breathing into account.

 

And the Stargazers?

 

It never states what became of all the races. Even for the destroy ending. It's the same during the refuse ending as well.

 

Hence, to my mind, Destroy is the one ending that doesn't play into the Catalyst's hands. It has the most negative consequences, but it doesn't directly destroy Shepard the way Control and Synthesis do, which both disintegrate them, to start with.

 

And insofar as the casualties, Garrus, EDI, Javik and Anderson all in their own ways back the Destroy ending, whereas who backs Control and Synthesis? TIM and Saren, and they were both compromised by the Reapers while they were advocating.

 

So, there's my reasoning as to the endings.

 

It's still doubtful the Catalyst told you everything regarding the consequences of Destroy,-it could just be a temporary shutdown that gives you a window to throw the Reapers into black holes for all we know,-but it's a much safer bet than Synthesis or Control.

 

EDIT: Now, let's get back to the main point of this topic instead of having this whole tired argument for the umpteenth time.

 

Anyone want to take punts on team composition?

 

If you take the marketing survey at face value, we're definitely getting a krogan.

 

But what about Caro? Liara clone, or something different?

 

I'm hoping she's Nyreen's replacement, but there's nothing to support or deny this, unless you take the description of what sounds like Nyreen's Biotic Protector power into account, but that's flimsy on its own.



#5173
Torgette

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Anyone want to take punts on team composition?

 

If you take the marketing survey at face value, we're definitely getting a krogan.

 

But what about Caro? Liara clone, or something different?

 

I'm hoping she's Nyreen's replacement, but there's nothing to support or deny this, unless you take the description of what sounds like Nyreen's Biotic Protector power into account, but that's flimsy on its own.

 

I think it's important to not have "not-Garrus" or "not-Liara" or etc., even if we do have a turian/asari/krogan/etc. either they should all be different or the team as a whole should behave differently. Something not talked about is the team having an identity, I feel like ME1's "team" was the most unified in the whole trilogy - those team meetings where everybody threw in their 2 cents and everybody commenting on eachother made you feel like everybody was in it together. ME2 everybody sort of felt like lone-wolves who only tolerated eachother because they were loyal to Shepard (ME3 felt like a throwback to ME1 with some new faces added to the mix). So i'd like to see Bioware make team-building and loyalty not just a mechanic but something you see the other squadmates deal with too.


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#5174
The13Inquisitor

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I think it's important to not have "not-Garrus" or "not-Liara" or etc., even if we do have a turian/asari/krogan/etc. either they should all be different or the team as a whole should behave differently. Something not talked about is the team having an identity, I feel like ME1's "team" was the most unified in the whole trilogy - those team meetings where everybody threw in their 2 cents and everybody commenting on eachother made you feel like everybody was in it together. ME2 everybody sort of felt like lone-wolves who only tolerated eachother because they were loyal to Shepard (ME3 felt like a throwback to ME1 with some new faces added to the mix). So i'd like to see Bioware make team-building and loyalty not just a mechanic but something you see the other squadmates deal with too.

 

Team building would be awesome.

 

And distinctive personalities is something that BIoware is good at. Just look at Grunt and Wrex or Liara and Samara:

 

Same species, very different characters.

 

I don't think clone characters is going to be much of an issue, myself.



#5175
goishen

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I think it's important to not have "not-Garrus" or "not-Liara" or etc., even if we do have a turian/asari/krogan/etc. either they should all be different or the team as a whole should behave differently. Something not talked about is the team having an identity, I feel like ME1's "team" was the most unified in the whole trilogy - those team meetings where everybody threw in their 2 cents and everybody commenting on eachother made you feel like everybody was in it together. ME2 everybody sort of felt like lone-wolves who only tolerated eachother because they were loyal to Shepard (ME3 felt like a throwback to ME1 with some new faces added to the mix). So i'd like to see Bioware make team-building and loyalty not just a mechanic but something you see the other squadmates deal with too.

 

 

Yah, I mean, one reason I think that they threw that out was that it would add too much dialogue.   Has Tali/Legion been recruited?  Have you done Tali/Legion's loyalty missions?  Has Jack been recruited?  Has Jack/Miranda's loyalty been done?  Etc.  I'm thinking they would give different answers to all of them if given differing circumstances. 

 

I mean, it's a good idea.  I liked your post, but that is prolly one reason they scrapped them.