322 réponses à ce sujet

[Enhanced]

Another a G.I. inspired nerf. I rather them just delete the G.I., than continue to nerf weapons that are average for most classes.

Modifié par Enhanced, 19 septembre 2012 - 12:49 .

[rmccowen]

Rifneno wrote...

Doommarine23 wrote...

Have fun with your aggressive and immature attitude over a game. You're a prime example of my point and how to be a child too. I do not need to get into an internet baby fight.

The word you're looking for is "disgust."  I'm disgusted with you, as I am with pretty much all sycophants and brown-nosers.

You're either a troll or an idiot.  There's no other option.  You come into threads where people are upset and venting over a negative change and you spew this sermon at them about how they're all acting like children...

BW says they're looking at an adjustment to arguably the most powerful weapon in the game, and a "slight adjustment" to a light pistol. We have no idea what the changes will be. On that basis, you wrote a rage-filled OP excoriating Fagnan specifically and BW generally for their stupidity and lack of professionalism.

So this doommarine guy accuses you of sounding aggressive and petulant. I understand that's not friendly--but, if not an unquestionable characterization of the thread, it's at least an admissible one. You think your anger and disgust are justified, but that's not the only possible reading.

[Rifneno]

rmccowen wrote...

Oh, and I'm speaking as someone with professional experience when I say this: the idea that the forum is a valid sample is jaw-droppingly ridiculous. It's like calmly walking into a paleontology conference and announcing that your presentation on The Flintstones will begin at 1:00pm.

You're right.  It is jawdroppingly ridiculous.  Because forums are far more biased towards wanting nerfs than the general populace.  If you don't think so, you clearly don't have much experience with MMORPGs and their nerfing dramas.  Forums tend to be made up of the more hardcore players.  Casual players aren't into it enough to bother with forums for their games.  Hardcore players tend to be better players with more refined strategies and knowledge of the mechanics, which lets them get far more out of something than the casual gamer.  So as forum-goers are overall better players that get more out of their items/characters/whatever, they're much more likely to support nerfs.

So yeah, the forum's opinions on whether a nerf should happen are nowhere near accurate of the whole community.  Because if we're at 85% against, it's probably really more like 97% against.

[GallowsPole]

neteng101 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

and for some, feel entitled to believe the game should be tailored for THEM, and not the MP as a whole.

Yet anytime a representation of the playerbase is polled, there's always been an overwhelming majority in the polls opposed to nerfs.  Yes the forum is not everyone that plays, but its a valid sample.

You can argue against individuals here and try to prove yourself more mature by calling them childish, but it actually lowers you to their level when you do this.  You're no longer talking about the topic at hand and attacking individuals maturity, which makes you just as childish as their responses to you.

I would agree if i had called someone childish, I did not. I merely reacted to a previous post.

As far as your assertion that the polls taken here somehow is a good sample, in my opinion, I disagree with. Most of the poll takers are the ones who play at the higher levels and not the casual gamers I would bet. I dont have any actual data, as I am sure you do not, but judging by the vocal ones, it makes sense.

I, for one,agree that at a Gold/Platinum level, there is nothing wrong with these weapons. So, in my bias for playing Gold and Platinum, I would not support a nerf. Now, let us go to the other side of the spectrum, Bronze or Silver. Now, let us say that, I am low level player. Why on earth would I support a nerf on a weapon I can dominate with? So, there is your 'good' sampling.

I, for one, would argue that for the brand new player, and especially new to ANY form of MP, should have the benefit and challenge of starting out with the common weapons and working up (must be the Republican in me). To balance ALL weapons between ALL difficulties is a challenge. Personally, I would never have done it this way, but it is what it is now.

[Eckswhyzed]

I always find it amusing when people accused of sounding aggressive and petulant respond with aggressive language. But that's neither here nor there.

Back on topic, what do you think we will see? I'm thinking a small weight adjustment on the Carnifex. As for the Piranha, I have no idea - I barely ever touch the thing.

[UpirNoir]

Boy, I bet the guys from BioWare are having a blast reading threads like this. they announce that they will nerf two guns in some way or another, didn't give any specifics at all, and people go completely apesh*t. That is not only tremendously funny, but the passion of these Nerfwars proofs, that people actually still care enough about the game, to go into complete ragemode !

[LemurFromTheId]

neteng101 wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

and for some, feel entitled to believe the game should be tailored for THEM, and not the MP as a whole.

Yet anytime a representation of the playerbase is polled, there's always been an overwhelming majority in the polls opposed to nerfs.  Yes the forum is not everyone that plays, but its a valid sample.

The sample is only valid if it actually represents the entire target population evenly as a whole. A forum poll that only the invested take part in will never, ever have a "valid sample".

[rmccowen]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

I always find it amusing when people accused of sounding aggressive and petulant respond with aggressive language. But that's neither here nor there.

Back on topic, what do you think we will see? I'm thinking a small weight adjustment on the Carnifex. As for the Piranha, I have no idea - I barely ever touch the thing.

I'd guess they turn the Piranha's damage down by 5-10%, adjust the weight on the Carnifex up to match the Talon, and turn its damage down by a similar 5-10%.

[Rifneno]

UpirNoir wrote...

Boy, I bet the guys from BioWare are having a blast reading threads like this. they announce that they will nerf two guns in some way or another, didn't give any specifics at all, and people go completely apesh*t. That is not only tremendously funny, but the passion of these Nerfwars proofs, that people actually still care enough about the game, to go into complete ragemode !

It's called pattern recognition.  Remember when they said they were looking into the krysae?  How'd that turn out?  "We feel the typhoon is a bit too powerful" was followed by turning it from one of the most popular to one of the least popular URs in the game.  But yeah, we should just assume they'll be reasonable THIS time.

[Rifneno]

rmccowen wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

I always find it amusing when people accused of sounding aggressive and petulant respond with aggressive language. But that's neither here nor there.

Back on topic, what do you think we will see? I'm thinking a small weight adjustment on the Carnifex. As for the Piranha, I have no idea - I barely ever touch the thing.

I'd guess they turn the Piranha's damage down by 5-10%, adjust the weight on the Carnifex up to match the Talon, and turn its damage down by a similar 5-10%.

So... nerf the carnifex worse than the piranha.  I'd assume you're mocking the balancing crew if you didn't just defend them.  LOL.

[rmccowen]

Rifneno wrote...

So yeah, the forum's opinions on whether a nerf should happen are nowhere near accurate of the whole community.  Because if we're at 85% against, it's probably really more like 97% against.

There's an equally good argument for the bias running the other direction--but that conversation is meaningless because it's not an issue of bias.

There's simply no way to argue that a forum poll is even representative of the population of the forum. Even given the time and resources to do so, it would be challenging to build a reliable or accurate sampling frame for the forum, since its membership is constantly in flux--and I'm not aware of any serious attempt to do so.

Given that fact--a poll of the forum isn't even representative of the forum--the idea that it's representative of any other population is... okay, I'll pick a different simile. It's like telling an airplane full of passengers that you're all being held up by invisible flying unicorns.

[synapsefire]

Enhanced wrote...

Another a G.I. inspired nerf. I rather them just delete the G.I., than continue to nerf weapons that are average for most classes.

I've had this opinion for a while. The class was a fail in design and balance and they managed to repeat their blunder with the Destroyer. Balancing the game around two classes is truly moronic. 

Modifié par synapsefire, 19 septembre 2012 - 01:13 .

[UpirNoir]

The truth is, I don't really care about buffs and nerfs that much. Yes I do have my little favorites, and some of them aren't even "supposedly" the best of their kind. But if a gun doesn't do it for me anymore, well I go ahead and find me another one. There are enough to choose from after all.

[Feneckus]

 It's amazing that they decide to nerf the carniflex now. I thought they nerfed things according to their data. No one uses that gun anymore. At launch though, you couldn't find a lobby without at least one Carniflex. Why not nerf it back then ?

[Rifneno]

rmccowen wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

So yeah, the forum's opinions on whether a nerf should happen are nowhere near accurate of the whole community.  Because if we're at 85% against, it's probably really more like 97% against.

There's an equally good argument for the bias running the other direction--but that conversation is meaningless because it's not an issue of bias.

There's simply no way to argue that a forum poll is even representative of the population of the forum. Even given the time and resources to do so, it would be challenging to build a reliable or accurate sampling frame for the forum, since its membership is constantly in flux--and I'm not aware of any serious attempt to do so.

Given that fact--a poll of the forum isn't even representative of the forum--the idea that it's representative of any other population is... okay, I'll pick a different simile. It's like telling an airplane full of passengers that you're all being held up by invisible flying unicorns.

How about we don't use ridiculous comparisons at all?

And no, there isn't an equally good argument for the bias in the other direction.  I've seen it many times on MMORPG balancing changes.  Forums are always far more pro-nerf than the general populace.  Maybe my reasoning behind it is wrong.  But the outcome is not.

[rmccowen]

Rifneno wrote...

rmccowen wrote...

I'd guess they turn the Piranha's damage down by 5-10%, adjust the weight on the Carnifex up to match the Talon, and turn its damage down by a similar 5-10%.

So... nerf the carnifex worse than the piranha.  I'd assume you're mocking the balancing crew if you didn't just defend them.  LOL.

I think the Carnifex is further away from its intended purpose than the Piranha. It also seems relevant to point out that the ranges I described include the possibility that the Piranha's damage nerf is twice as large (in relative terms) as the Carnifex's.

[rmccowen]

Rifneno wrote...

How about we don't use ridiculous comparisons at all?

Because that would be less fun for me.

And no, there isn't an equally good argument for the bias in the other direction.  I've seen it many times on MMORPG balancing changes.  Forums are always far more pro-nerf than the general populace.  Maybe my reasoning behind it is wrong.  But the outcome is not.

And you know this because you've performed or seen valid surveys of both the MMO forums and the general populace? I'd be interested to see that work.

The point I'm trying to make is that speculating about generalizability of a poll of the forum ("the forum is more in favor of nerfs than the general population") is a dozen steps further up the ladder than we're capable of climbing. The problem isn't bias, which is by definition reliable--the problem is error, which pulls on your conclusions in unknown ways and directions. Specifically, the problems are errors of coverage and nonresponse stemming from a fundamentally unstable construct definition.

No one knows what a forum like this like, except in the sense of a general characterization of a relatively small group of regular posters--because it's extremely difficult to say who is part of the population and who isn't. Out of respect for your sensibilities, I will drop the comparisons, but without them it's hard to underscore the gravity of this point. You have no idea who does count as part of the forum, and you also don't know who should count, and neither do I and neither does anyone else.

[DarklighterFreak]

amazing, as always, and i thought that Riot games are masters at fcking things up w ''balance changes'', nope looks like BioWare has surpassed them by fa)r

[Tchu Tchu Tchu Paaaa]

Instead nerf weapons, why don't buff the others?
We can count on finger's hand how many weapons are suitable to gold and platinum... Carniflex and Piranha are included... If you nerft them, wich weapon will be usefull to play platinum?

cerberus harrier
indra
claymore
saber
.
.
.

Not to many options.

[GallowsPole]

BW has said time and time again they simply don't have the man power to buff all the weapons.

[UkGouki]

i stopped using the piranna when the last nerf on it made it useless on anything other than a GI or the soldier with rof bonus.

as for the carnifax i never used it prefered the phalanx tbh i only play the game on n7 weekends now but more nerfs means ill be playing even less than i currently do now. instead of being on 12 hours a day over the n7 weekends ill be on 30 minutes to get the individeul objective done and then go back to pandora..

[MajorStupidity]

I could see the piranha needing some balancing; however, I do believe that the piranha is tricky to balance because it is really only OP on two classes, so it would probably require a patch to completely change the mechanics of its accuracy bonuses.

A carnifex nerf... really... why after all this time?

[Stinger14s]

Someone mentioned before to make all the weapons comparable and mostly the same. I personally think that’s a bit silly. Let’s take the real world for example.
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The P90 - Expensive as hell, huge magazine clip and fairly accurate. Almost no punching power however has the ability to use many different types of small ammunition

The M-4 Carbine: widely used, easy to fire, no kick - and has TONS of options. Fires a decent round for troops, but against armor - is useless. 1-10 on accuracy 6.

The AK47 - VERY CHEEP, large clip size and has rounds that can punch through about ½ inch of armor. Huge kick, and not very accurate

The M14 - Master of all weapons. Decent clip - GREAT accuracy and has amazing punching power VERY Reliable (Dad used this in the Vietnam War) .

50 Cal sniper rifle - Heavy as all hell, you can barely move with it…. The rounds are also VERY Heavy however the punching power is through the roof and is able to use different types of monster ammo.

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OK, after that my point… the weapons now are great, but they can be altered to many different facets. Have some able to use Armor piercing, some not. Have some with huge a huge kick, some not…

The basic Idea is already there, but the stats per the game are NOT correct. If the weapons were as diverse as their ratings In the game, I don’t think we would have this issue.

And of course there is always other options. Add melee weapons, had omni weapons, add more grenade launchers, have a rocket launcher that fires a round say once every 30 seconds. Have a flame thrower - Needle gun… there are TONS of options out there. Nerfing weapons that people like due to other weapons not being as effective is a bit silly. The Argus is a PRIME example... you put the weapon in circulation and the weapon, while very cool to fire and look at, sucks. And who’s fault is that… WHY are there only 2 or 3 assault rifles that EVERYONE uses and the other 15 are never used? ….I think BW is using a band aid to heal .50 cal bullet wound.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

I might stop playing after these nerfs, depending on their magnitude. My interest in this game has been waning as of late, and this just might be the deciding factor.

Eric, no offense, but do you actually play the game and test the weapons yourself? Based on some statements you've made in the past, your balance changes appear to rely heavily on data and formulas. It's possible that the data you're using doesn't accurately depict how balanced these weapons are.

[GordianKnot42]

Does anyone else feel like the nerf/buff issue is really just a result of the flawed unlockable system? I mean, originally, you played so you could unlock the Rares and Ultra-Rares, which were presumably better than the Uncommons (Eagle notwithstanding). But everyone's pretty much unlocked everything by now, especially if they started playing Day 1. So now the only things to look forward to is the occasional DLC or the possible buff to your favorite weapon or class (which later leads to the nerfing of other people's favorite weapons).