322 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

DatFeel wrote...

The weight of the Piranha should be increased, and if you don't think so you're lying to yourself. Other than that it's fine.

What about characters that don't care about weapon weight? They are already slightly more powerful and you want to hurt the others more? I don't agree with this at all. In fact if they do nerf the damage (slightly) they should drop the weight to make up for it and not obsolete the gun.

Modifié par Malanek999, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:34 .

[LemurFromTheId]

Rifneno wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

No. The amount of alternatives does not determine the power of something. The scimitar isn't going to kill better next week because the piranha got nerfed.

Exactly. That is my feelings for the Carnifex. I mean, I understand they want people to use other pistols, but make another attractive choice for others, then. Put a beefy Eagle buff on the table, and I can assure you that Carnifex will see a drop in use.

What about acolyte, arc pistol, predator, phalanx, paladin, talon and scorpion? Shouldn't they be buffed too, then?

No, because pistols as a whole are good enough compared to other weapon categories. Isn't it a bit more sensible to adjust the one pistol that's being overused?

So the most popular thing must always be broken.  Lovely logic.

Think of it as two distinct changes:

1) Every other gun and power is buffed to the level of your favorite weapon. Great!

2) All enemies are buffed a little. This is good: we are constantly improving as players and need more challenge. People are soloing Platinum.

Frankly, all this is starting to remind me of ME2 days, when people were crying that they have the basic human right of being able to beat insanity yet it was too difficult for them.

[baltoid]

I actually wasn't that impressed with the Carnifex for a long time. Then I learned how to take a little more time and aim.

I honestly don't think a nerf is needed. It's RoF and weight are pretty prohibitive for a pistol (not everyone has every gun leveled to X). It requires a good bit of practice and effort to use effectively.

Of course I'm sure the nerf is gonna happen anyway, then we can all just abandon using pistols entirely (except for the Talon [OH GOD PLEASE DON'T NERF THAT TOO]).

[Rifneno]

Aedolon wrote...

Think of it as two distinct changes:

1) Every other gun and power is buffed to the level of your favorite weapon. Great!

2) All enemies are buffed a little. This is good: we are constantly improving as players and need more challenge. People are soloing Platinum.

Frankly, all this is starting to remind me of ME2 days, when people were crying that they have the basic human right of being able to beat insanity yet it was too difficult for them.

Pretty up crap all you want, it's still crap.  And when geth can't stunlock you until other geth can obliterate you, then talk to me about how enemies need buffing.

[WestLakeDragon]

baltoid wrote...

I actually wasn't that impressed with the Carnifex for a long time. Then I learned how to take a little more time and aim.

I honestly don't think a nerf is needed. It's RoF and weight are pretty prohibitive for a pistol (not everyone has every gun leveled to X). It requires a good bit of practice and effort to use effectively.

Of course I'm sure the nerf is gonna happen anyway, then we can all just abandon using pistols entirely (except for the Talon [OH GOD PLEASE DON'T NERF THAT TOO]).

NOW YOU"VE DONE IT. THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!

[etm125]

sandboxgod wrote...

Your logic would make sense if nerfing Piranha would make Disciple X and some of these other shotties viable. But no- Wraith will still be weaker than rares even tho its a UR. And my Disciple X will still be beyond worthless.

This nerf is a lose/lose no matter how you look at it.

edit- fixed spelling

 
The wraith and disciple do seem inferior. But again, inferior to what? Everything is inferior to a pirahna. 

If your goal is to make games easier and get credits/xp faster then everything should be buffed. But if your goal is to keep the best part of the game (different options/builds/etc) and prevent it from becoming GI-Pirahna-Multiplayer then sometimes you need to nerf. 

I don't know how else to explain it....if trooper Y takes 5 damage to kill and the pirahna does 5 while all other shotguns do 2-- pirahna getting nerfed to 2 is a buff to all other shotguns. They are more viable options. What has happened is the game in general has become more difficult. Whether that needs to happen is a separate debate.

Modifié par etm125, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:46 .

[LemurFromTheId]

Rifneno wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

Think of it as two distinct changes:

1) Every other gun and power is buffed to the level of your favorite weapon. Great!

2) All enemies are buffed a little. This is good: we are constantly improving as players and need more challenge. People are soloing Platinum.

Frankly, all this is starting to remind me of ME2 days, when people were crying that they have the basic human right of being able to beat insanity yet it was too difficult for them.

Pretty up crap all you want, it's still crap.  And when geth can't stunlock you until other geth can obliterate you, then talk to me about how enemies need buffing.

So problem isn't the weapons or the enemies in general, it's just the geth. Hopefully Bioware will fix them. Solution until then: fight them on a lower difficulty level, and they won't stunlock you.

[DatFeel]

Malanek999 wrote...

DatFeel wrote...

The weight of the Piranha should be increased, and if you don't think so you're lying to yourself. Other than that it's fine.

What about characters that don't care about weapon weight? They are already slightly more powerful and you want to hurt the others more? I don't agree with this at all. In fact if they do nerf the damage (slightly) they should drop the weight to make up for it and not obsolete the gun.

Cause "Casters" (I put it in parentheses cause it's such a stupid term) shouldn't be able to have a GREAT cooldown and be a total killing machine pure weapon wise. Let's stop pretending that the Piranha ISN'T the best shotgun in the game, cause it is. You can talk about its lack of range, but we both know the truth.

[DarkAbsolution]

The Carnifex is the lowest single-clip DPS pistol in the game, and has one of the lowest sustained DPS pistols in the game, AND THEY WANT TO NERF IT!?!?!

Almost nothing makes sense with the suggestion of that move. Could it be that people use it, more because its suits their style, rather than any actual effectiveness? What's that? People are using some gun more than others? Quick! Better nerf it!

FWIW, I don't think I've used the Carnifex for months. I do remember it though as being one of the better rare weapons for newer players to get because it synergised well with one-shot-kill head-shots on Bronze. With enemy health buffs, I don't even know if that's true any more, but of all the weapons that I ever though "Crap! I reckon Bioware might nerf this!", the Carnifex never even rated a mention on that list in my book.

[ParatrooperSean]

DatFeel wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

DatFeel wrote...

The weight of the Piranha should be increased, and if you don't think so you're lying to yourself. Other than that it's fine.

What about characters that don't care about weapon weight? They are already slightly more powerful and you want to hurt the others more? I don't agree with this at all. In fact if they do nerf the damage (slightly) they should drop the weight to make up for it and not obsolete the gun.

Cause "Casters" (I put it in parentheses cause it's such a stupid term) shouldn't be able to have a GREAT cooldown and be a total killing machine pure weapon wise. Let's stop pretending that the Piranha ISN'T the best shotgun in the game, cause it is. You can talk about its lack of range, but we both know the truth.

It is the best CQC shotgun, but if you ever want to keep your distance at times I would take the Claymore over the Pirahna any day. If weight is an issue and you want to have range there a number of better weapon choices, including the Indra, the Hurricane and any number of pistols.

[LemurFromTheId]

DarkAbsolution wrote...

The Carnifex is the lowest single-clip DPS pistol in the game, and has one of the lowest sustained DPS pistols in the game, AND THEY WANT TO NERF IT!?!?!

Almost nothing makes sense with the suggestion of that move. Could it be that people use it, more because its suits their style, rather than any actual effectiveness? What's that? People are using some gun more than others? Quick! Better nerf it!

FWIW, I don't think I've used the Carnifex for months. I do remember it though as being one of the better rare weapons for newer players to get because it synergised well with one-shot-kill head-shots on Bronze. With enemy health buffs, I don't even know if that's true any more, but of all the weapons that I ever though "Crap! I reckon Bioware might nerf this!", the Carnifex never even rated a mention on that list in my book.

I can only speak for myself, but I think Carniflex is better that it's stats. The reason is that its ROF is just low enough that you can accurately aim every single shot without sacrificing its ROF. It's a perfect sweet-spot. The Phalanx, for example, while an excellent weapon, isn't as good at headshots because at max ROF it's much more difficult to make sure every slug hits the target.

On the other hand, I find that Carniflex has ROF high enought that it can still handle crowds effectively enough. The Talon, for example, has much more difficulties with that.

At least this is why I use Carniflex (when I do). Not sure about other people.

[Sinapus]

DatFeel wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

DatFeel wrote...

The weight of the Piranha should be increased, and if you don't think so you're lying to yourself. Other than that it's fine.

What about characters that don't care about weapon weight? They are already slightly more powerful and you want to hurt the others more? I don't agree with this at all. In fact if they do nerf the damage (slightly) they should drop the weight to make up for it and not obsolete the gun.

Cause "Casters" (I put it in parentheses cause it's such a stupid term) shouldn't be able to have a GREAT cooldown and be a total killing machine pure weapon wise. Let's stop pretending that the Piranha ISN'T the best shotgun in the game, cause it is. You can talk about its lack of range, but we both know the truth.

The truth? That my Destroyer had to switch to his Vindicator to engage some targets across the map because he couldn't close that quickly?

The Piranha is excellent on Glacier and for going into rooms on other maps. It also works when your scope is full of nothing but enemies. Sometimes you want to reach out and touch someone... the Piranha can't do that.

[Outrider42]

I would be ok with a small increase in the piranha, but don't go nerfing the damage again. And hell no on a carnifex nerf!

So any time a weapon gets used by people it gets a nerf? What then is the point of making it a rare weapon then? The only other pistol I use is the talon. So if you touch the carnifex then I will be forced to stick with the talon on any pistol build I use. So what then, you will nerf that too? Give the eagle a buff that is appropriate for being ur and then those usage stats will change, its as simple as that.

There will always be a couple of weapons that are popular for different reasons. It doesn't matter what it is, but it is nonsense to go nerf everything that gets popular.

You guys seriously need to FIX the vanguard glitch and all of the broken evolutions in skill trees before you even think about nerfing the carnifex. It is because players cannot properly use these skills that they are forced to take what weapons they can. The carnifex has been there since day 1, so it is only natural that people probably have that weapon at a higher level. The paladin is ur, and I only have it at 1. So why would I take a paladin 1 over a carnifex X? And the eagle is a promo ur, so you get one under special circumstances. Mine is like level 3 or 4. So again, the carnifex is a better choice.

And what of submachineguns? Is there even a choice at all there? Even with the locust buff that just happened? If the smg's were not so terrible then maybe people might use them more instead of the carnifex. The biggest issue with the smg's is not just the normal damage, but their damage against armor. It is insane to take almost any smg into a gold or platinum game unless it is a hurricane when nearly all the enemies have shields and armor.

[Misfiring]

I have no problem with Piranha killing troops because that's what its for, but killing an atlas in 5 seconds is BS with a gun designed to kill husks.

Make it does 50% damage against armor, and reduce its ROF to 100.

Scimitar needs a small damage boost and up its ROF to 150.

Do this, and the eventual AT-12 will no longer be a sub-par two shot Piranha.

[OMDB]

"Impending carnifex & piranha nerfs
"

More Nerfs... How unfortunate and disappointing. 

[Malanek]

DatFeel wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

DatFeel wrote...

The weight of the Piranha should be increased, and if you don't think so you're lying to yourself. Other than that it's fine.

What about characters that don't care about weapon weight? They are already slightly more powerful and you want to hurt the others more? I don't agree with this at all. In fact if they do nerf the damage (slightly) they should drop the weight to make up for it and not obsolete the gun.

Cause "Casters" (I put it in parentheses cause it's such a stupid term) shouldn't be able to have a GREAT cooldown and be a total killing machine pure weapon wise. Let's stop pretending that the Piranha ISN'T the best shotgun in the game, cause it is. You can talk about its lack of range, but we both know the truth.

The Destroyer can use the Piranha more destructively than any "caster" can use it combined with their powers. Just increasing the weight does not hurt the Destroyer at all. Your suggestion does not even target its most broken application.

[Kyerea]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Well this thread should be a real laugh riot.

Yup, a real laugh riot.

I mean hey, we could just you know, buff the pistols that are vastly inferior to the Carnifex or buff/re-work all the non-Reegar, Piranha, and Claymore shotguns. But I guess we'll just have to settle on nerfing more good weapons. I suppose the Claymore and PPR are getting the nerfhammer next at this rate. Because if a weapon is an exemplar for only three or four characters, that automatically makes it OP. Guys nerf Scorpion, Infiltrators can own spawns with it from TC. Or nerf the PPR because Geth Hunters can literally melt bosses in seconds with it on Gold/Plat.

Modifié par Kyerea, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:08 .

[Misfiring]

Malanek999 wrote...

DatFeel wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

DatFeel wrote...

The weight of the Piranha should be increased, and if you don't think so you're lying to yourself. Other than that it's fine.

What about characters that don't care about weapon weight? They are already slightly more powerful and you want to hurt the others more? I don't agree with this at all. In fact if they do nerf the damage (slightly) they should drop the weight to make up for it and not obsolete the gun.

Cause "Casters" (I put it in parentheses cause it's such a stupid term) shouldn't be able to have a GREAT cooldown and be a total killing machine pure weapon wise. Let's stop pretending that the Piranha ISN'T the best shotgun in the game, cause it is. You can talk about its lack of range, but we both know the truth.

The Destroyer can use the Piranha more destructively than any "caster" can use it combined with their powers. Just increasing the weight does not hurt the Destroyer at all. Your suggestion does not even target its most broken application.

Piranha is designed to be a lightweight solution to husks. Making it heavy will completely invalidate its purpose.

As i mentioned earlier, make it do 50% damage against armor and 75% damage against shield/barrier, then give it 125% damage against health. Problem solved. Piranha goes back to it's purpose.

[Rifneno]

Aedolon wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

Think of it as two distinct changes:

1) Every other gun and power is buffed to the level of your favorite weapon. Great!

2) All enemies are buffed a little. This is good: we are constantly improving as players and need more challenge. People are soloing Platinum.

Frankly, all this is starting to remind me of ME2 days, when people were crying that they have the basic human right of being able to beat insanity yet it was too difficult for them.

Pretty up crap all you want, it's still crap. And when geth can't stunlock you until other geth can obliterate you, then talk to me about how enemies need buffing.

So problem isn't the weapons or the enemies in general, it's just the geth. Hopefully Bioware will fix them. Solution until then: fight them on a lower difficulty level, and they won't stunlock you.

Geth are the worst problem, but hardly the only one. Cerberus is still a joke save for far and away the cheapest unit in the game, the phantom. Reapers are okay except for banshees using The Force to kill you. IMO, death should always be because you made a mistake rather than random "I win" buttons on enemies. But that's neither here nor there. The point is that enemies do not need buffing.

While we're all throwing around ideas for what to do about the piranha, I really like misfiring's suggestion. But let me toss this one in: at the same time as a nerf, introduce shotgun that's ultra rare and performs similar to the original piranha.

[Malanek]

Misfiring wrote...
As i mentioned earlier, make it do 50% damage against armor and 75% damage against shield/barrier, then give it 125% damage against health. Problem solved. Piranha goes back to it's purpose.

I'm not sure I like the shield idea (I guess it might be needed, I would test first) but I quite like the rest of it.

[Kingfurykiller]

Rifneno wrote...

As a heads up, we are looking at balance changes to the Piranha and Carnifex for next week. We feel the Piranha is still too dominant of a weapon even with the recent balance changes and needs further adjustment. Although we haven't touched the Carnifex since ship, we feel it is obscuring too many other weapons in its class and needs some small adjustments as well.

This is just epic.  Six months ago everyone was clammering over how OP the carnifex was.  Now, 3 DLC later, it's a nonissue.  And now is when they choose to nerf it?  I can't help but feel this may have something to do with the discussion about the eagle.  For those that missed that particular piece of hilarity, the devs feel that the eagle is okay because it's a caster weapon.  Yes, it's okay as long as you're playing a class that doesn't try to make their guns do real damage.  Good logic, right?  They said they were to discuss the eagle together today because of all the disdain it gets from the community.  I find myself wondering if their conclusion was "the eagle's fine, so that must mean the other options are too good."

I... I'm not rightly sure how to even respond to such a train of thought, so I guess I'll stop here and bask in the failure of the upcoming nerfs.

no nerfs. please....

i still find other uses all the time for other shotguns.  if the pirhana was nerfed people would just go back to using something else.  and same with the carnifex. i think it is perfect the way it is.  i use other pistols all the time (phalanx, arc pistol especially ).  please no more nerfs.  its getting old...

[Bon3zz1001]

That's alright. I have no problems using the Reegar which is just as ridiculous as the Piranha.

[ToaOrka]

I'm so happy to hear about a Piranha nerf that I'll almost overlook the Carnifex nerf.
Almost.

[Amnesiotic]

Ashen Earth wrote...
The Wraith is great, if you actually know how to aim.

So much this. Wraith is great on Cerdept, Slayer, and AJ just to name some casters. They can nerf the Piranha to hell for all I care. Pair it with a GI and it's idiot mode. It's boring.

Now, nerfing the Carnifax is kinda' silly; Too little, too late. All nerfing it will accomplish is pushing people to overuse the Acolyte.

[DNC Protoman]

Glorious balance my brothers. Soon the blashpehmy the piranha has wrought shall be no more.