126 réponses à ce sujet

[lx_theo]

HiroVoid wrote...

The game is set in Orlais?  I figured we'd be going to multiple settings based on rumors.

Uncomfirmed anyways besides rumors and assumptions of some.

[HiroVoid]

daaaav wrote...

PhillyB wrote...

Wow, just wow. I'm not even going to touch this one.

Yeah... the only ones who should touch it are the fox news alarmists and reactionaries...

It's ok. You can talk about it.

Whoa.  Whoah. Whoah.

No need to insult my group now.  I demand immideate closement of this thread if the OP continues to act in such an insulting manner!

[The Hierophant]

Emzamination wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

daaaav wrote...

But, it really irks me when people say things like "female characters should dress practically"... Why? What if they don't want to dress practically? If it makes sense for the character then they can dress as impractically as they like...
 

Not really because a character whose only clothing is a piece of dental floss, a leaf, a cape, and armed only with a dagger, would look stupid when fighting armored knights or dragons who can tear steel with their claws.

Dental floss?

But anyways Hierophant this guy has to disagree with you on that front.

Not fair, he's Dracula!

[StElmo]

daaaav wrote...


But, it really irks me when people say things like "female characters should dress practically"... Why? What if they don't want to dress practically?

If they were grounded characterfs, they would want to dress practically in battle.

That doesn't mean full plate armor, but it means practically based armor that exudes the persons fighting style, not their gender.

Outside of battle, I don't have a problem with ladies and gentlemen of the night dressing seductively, because that is their role and it makes sense.

city folk, however, should not be dressing like babes or dudes, they should dress realistically in relation to the setting.

Modifié par StElmo, 19 septembre 2012 - 01:43 .

[SafetyShattered]

As long as the clothing etc. matches the character that wears them then I'll be ok with it. Isabella wearing that outfit for example completely matched her personality. It worked. If Aveline had dressed like that however, it would've felt so off.

[drake heath]

The best way to have a female inquisitor is dress her like this;



Minus the eye augmentation, but skulls are always good for imposing fear into the enemies of the Emperor Maker.

[AsheraII]

daaaav wrote...

The other thread was derailed by muppets...

Anyway, I think a point needs to be made.

Sexuality and sexual objectification are two very different things. I hope that Dragon Age 3 avoids objectification without characterisation but heartily embraces sexuality.

The game is set in Orlais, a land where courtesans, brothels and intrigue are a part of their culture. It would feel strange and inauthentic if sexuality where not an integral part of the setting and story. Whether this is accomplished by characterisation or evocative imagery (yes nudity) is up to the developers.

But, it really irks me when people say things like "female characters should dress practically"... Why? What if they don't want to dress practically? If it makes sense for the character then they can dress as impractically as they like...
 
So how important should this be to both the setting and story?

Especially for the player character, I think we should have a lot of variety in customization. Some players like to go into a fight wearing dental floss, others prefer to ride through the desert in the burning sun wearing full plate armor. To each their own I'd say, so allow us some good customization  IN GAME.

Yes, that might mean a bit more work for the artists, but simply include some variation. And for every level/quality bracket at that. So not lvl 1-10 = look like a hoo, lvl 11-20 = look like a mercenary, lvl 21-30 = look like royalty. But have those variations of visuals available at every level bracket and in every quality bracket. Ideally, by allowing the player to modify those visuals in game. So we can change the visuals, but keep the stats for the things we find.

With that, the PLAYERS' choice of garment can then be reflected on the NPCs' choice of clothes. Sometimes subtle, sometimes less subtle. Our choice of design could even affect how NPCs, including partymembers, respond to us. The whole game could mechanically evolve to a more interresting next level through these means if used well.

[HiroVoid]

drake heath wrote...

The best way to have a female inquisitor is dress her like this;

Minus the eye augmentation, but skulls are always good for imposing fear into the enemies of the Emperor Maker.

Gotta know where this image is from.

[Dhiro]

syllogi wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

I think that a character's clothes should always say something about the character. Isabela's clothes fits her and her personality. I don't mind more, let's say, revealing clothes if that's something a character would wear. If the clothes say nothing about the character, or even go against what this character believes, I think it's a waste.

So... more sexuality? Sure, if it fits. Otherwise? Nah.

In some ways I think that Isabela's outfit did a disservice to her character, only because it seems like a lot of gamers took one look at her model and refused to get to know her.  I see people claiming that she doesn't love a romanced Hawke, that she'll have sex with anyone, and nastier things, simply because they see how she looks and hear her flirtatious banter, but don't take the time to get to know her better.  If they are talking to her, then they're certainly not listening.

I do wonder if they would take her more seriously if they could change her outfit.  Morrigan, who actually has a somewhat similar view as Isabela on sex at the beginning of a romance with the Warden, AND who has a default outfit that is pretty revealing, doesn't get as much s-shaming at all.  People either don't like her for the content of her character or her actions, rather than the way she views sex or her outfit.  

Maybe Isabela would still be doomed to be hated by those people because they know her from DA:O as the chick with "loose morals," but I think it would be interesting to see how the opinions would shape up if they could switch her into different gear a few minutes after meeting her, like Morrigan.  Maybe they'd still hate her for what happens at the end of Act 2, but that would be make more sense than some of the stuff we hear now.

And for the record, I don't have a problem with Isabela or Morrigan's iconic outfits, but being able to change Morrigan's clothes was nice.  I'm sure she would have been chilly at Soldier's Peak in those rags.

I understand what you mean. But personally, I think that the problem here lies not on Isabela and her outfit but, uh, on people. And that's pretty sad.

I also don't think people would like her better if they could change their outfit - not truly. Or at least, not the people who call her sl***y. This kind of comment, as far as I've noted, stirs from their opinions not on the subject of Isabela's clothes, but her views about sex and sexuality, and that's something no dress could ever change.

I'm not sure if I'm making much sense, but I hope you get what I mean! 

[HiroVoid]

StElmo wrote...
ld want to dress practically in battle.

That doesn't mean full plate armor, but it means practically based armor that exudes the persons fighting style, not their gender.

Outside of battle, I don't have a problem with ladies and gentlemen of the night dressing seductively, because that is their role and it makes sense.

I would also say this is a bit of a case of praticality/stylization.  A good example would be from ME1 to ME2 where they went from armor to whatever gave the character a more unique identity.  It can also go into the immersion debate as well.

[drake heath]

HiroVoid wrote...
Gotta know where this image is from.

Warhammer 40k, the Inquisition there is like, the Spanish inquisition on steriods in space.

[The Hierophant]

drake heath wrote...

The best way to have a female inquisitor is dress her like this;



Minus the eye augmentation, but skulls are always good for imposing fear into the enemies of the Emperor Maker.

DA3 seriously needs mage armor/clothing that is styled like the above.

[Emzamination]

The Hierophant wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

daaaav wrote...

But, it really irks me when people say things like "female characters should dress practically"... Why? What if they don't want to dress practically? If it makes sense for the character then they can dress as impractically as they like...
 

Not really because a character whose only clothing is a piece of dental floss, a leaf, a cape, and armed only with a dagger, would look stupid when fighting armored knights or dragons who can tear steel with their claws.

Dental floss?

But anyways Hierophant this guy has to disagree with you on that front.

Not fair, he's Dracula!

Shirtless and unarmored

[NKKKK]

Oh god...the Angry One is going to have a ball here.

[FumikoM]

Choices! Let there be half-naked women, and men! Not just half-naked women.

About the "cross-dressing", it would only effect men since a woman in pants is not seen as "cross-dressing". So this is kinda pointless. Why even make a big deal out of it? A dude in dress is not "cross-dressing", he's just wearing some clothes, just like pants and a shirt. People don't call it anything when women wear traditionally men's clothing, do they? Exactly. And so should people stop calling it "cross-dressing" when a guy wants to wear a skirt or dress, it's just silly.

In the end it's just clothes. End of story.

[Maria Caliban]

Emzamination wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Not really because a character whose only clothing is a piece of dental floss, a leaf, a cape, and armed only with a dagger, would look stupid when fighting armored knights or dragons who can tear steel with their claws.

Dental floss?

But anyways Hierophant this guy has to disagree with you on that front.

The man who is dressed in more than "a piece of dental floss, a leaf, [and] a cape" and who is armed with more than a dagger would disagree with Hierophant... why?

[Emzamination]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Not really because a character whose only clothing is a piece of dental floss, a leaf, a cape, and armed only with a dagger, would look stupid when fighting armored knights or dragons who can tear steel with their claws.

Dental floss?

But anyways Hierophant this guy has to disagree with you on that front.

The man who is dressed in more than "a piece of dental floss, a leaf, [and] a cape" and who is armed with more than a dagger would disagree with Hierophant... why?

The point is he's not dressed in the least for battle, yet charges head on.He isn't armed with anything at all <_<

[drake heath]

The dude turns into a fething smoke monster, I'm sure what he's wearing and what weapons he has is a moot point.

[Dhiro]

Emzamination wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Not really because a character whose only clothing is a piece of dental floss, a leaf, a cape, and armed only with a dagger, would look stupid when fighting armored knights or dragons who can tear steel with their claws.

Dental floss?

But anyways Hierophant this guy has to disagree with you on that front.

The man who is dressed in more than "a piece of dental floss, a leaf, [and] a cape" and who is armed with more than a dagger would disagree with Hierophant... why?

The point is he's not dressed in the least for battle, yet charges head on.He isn't armed with anything at all <_<

Isn't he an undead with magical powers, though? Unless you're a mage, I'm not sure if the example applies in the DAverse.

[daaaav]

Another thing.

I want the wide range of characters and settings. I want the Isabellas and the Avelines, the Antivans and the Qunari, the seedy and the stuffy. But I want it to be authentic, not sanitised. if it fits, let there be hedonistic debauchery or romance be conveyed with evocative imagery (nudity) and good story and characters.

[Emzamination]

Points taken

[The Hierophant]

Emzamination wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

daaaav wrote...

But, it really irks me when people say things like "female characters should dress practically"... Why? What if they don't want to dress practically? If it makes sense for the character then they can dress as impractically as they like...
 

Not really because a character whose only clothing is a piece of dental floss, a leaf, a cape, and armed only with a dagger, would look stupid when fighting armored knights or dragons who can tear steel with their claws.

Dental floss?

But anyways Hierophant this guy has to disagree with you on that front.

Not fair, he's Dracula!

Shirtless and unarmored

Again, not fair because he's a superhuman freak of nature, bound to a demon who is capable of masacring armies.:innocent:

*edit* ninja'd:bandit:

Modifié par The Hierophant, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:20 .

[Dhiro]

daaaav wrote...

Another thing.

I want the wide range of characters and settings. I want the Isabellas and the Avelines, the Antivans and the Qunari, the seedy and the stuffy. But I want it to be authentic, not sanitised. if it fits, let there be hedonistic debauchery or romance be conveyed with evocative imagery (nudity) and good story and characters.

Yes, but a game that relies heavily on hedonistic debauchery and nudity may not be the game that the DA devs want to create. There are many ways to make a mature game, the use of sexuality (as you describe it) is only one of them.

[daaaav]

Dhiro wrote...

daaaav wrote...

Another thing.

I want the wide range of characters and settings. I want the Isabellas and the Avelines, the Antivans and the Qunari, the seedy and the stuffy. But I want it to be authentic, not sanitised. if it fits, let there be hedonistic debauchery or romance be conveyed with evocative imagery (nudity) and good story and characters.

Yes, but a game that relies heavily on hedonistic debauchery and nudity may not be the game that the DA devs want to create. There are many ways to make a mature game, the use of sexuality (as you describe it) is only one of them.

I've never suggested otherwise!

In the OP i said that DA3 should avoid sexual objectification without characterisation.

Examples:

- Edi's unfortunate anatomy
- Mirandas gratuitous camera angles
- The latter half of the Triss/Geralt bath cutscene
- Armor looking ridiculous on female character models
- Ashley's makeover

All of these things should be avoided.

[Sylvianus]

Ashley's makeup bothered me a lot. She is a practical woman, she would never do that in mission.
Her lips were better without that thing morever.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:20 .