348 réponses à ce sujet

[MACharlie1]

Rawgrim wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The thread is about ROMANCE OPTIONS. Thats my point. Aveline and Varric wern`t romance options.

So when I say "everyone" i mean all of the romance options. Kind of the heart of the discussion.

But your argueing that merely having an option to flirt was immersion breaking. You're saying having that Heart shaped icon when talking with Anders was immersion breaking. I'm just saying one of your arguements for no-all-bi option is invalid. 

Not exactly sure what you mean. Since Aveline and Varric arn`t a factor at all.

Your arguement is having a heart shaped icon, indicating flirting - indicating an interested Hawke in a particular character - is immersion breaking. 

Because of the presence of characters who do reciprocate Hawke's advances - this arguement is invalid because you don't know if the character will reciprocate. You're talking about immersion breaking and realism and yet you're meta-gaming. Thats the only saving point of this arguement. It's only valid if you know who the romance options are. Which you're kinda supposed to figure out on you're own...

Well the icon made it sure I never needed to figure it out on my own.

But the icon doesn't prove anything, as proven by Aveline.

So if I press the icon while speaking to any of the romance options, I won t start a romance?

We're  not talking about the romance options themselves. We're just talking about the dialog options that you find immersion breaking.

[Fidget6]

Sexuality is a ver personal aspect of a persons life so i think that characters should have individual sexualties

This. It cheapens the individuality of the characters if the entire party is bi. 

[Rawgrim]

sharkboy421 wrote...

I would very much prefer if they kept with DA2's approach and made every romance option available to both genders of the PC.  But I do think there should be a few conditions to go along with making everyone available.

First off the romance option should only be initiated by the player.  This would help avoid any accidental romances that can be surprising and sometimes upsetting.  In fact this would be a good general rule for any type of romance.  Just because I'm being nice to you does not mean I want to get with you.  As an addition to that if the dialogue wheel is going to return I would like them to keep the "heart" option for romances as a seperate choice.  That way there can be no mistake about what you are saying to the companion.

Secondly a character's sexuality should be almost never even be hinted at unless the player is pursuing a romance with that character.  I want to know a characters personality and what drives them and maybe even what they like in a partner, but their orientation should have little impact on their personality. 

Building off that, a character needs to avoid making comments about a preference and flirting with the player unless they will do so regardless of gender, like Isabella or Liara.

I really think these guidlines would allow for people to enjoy the romances they want in the manner they want and also let people avoid the ones they want to avoid.

I disagree with you abit there. In some cases it should be hinted at. Depending on the character doing the hinting. As an extreme example: Austin Powers.  Some guys (or women) are just braggarts about their sexuality. So the hinting or whatever should be increased or removed depending on the character itself.

[Biotic_Warlock]

sharkboy421 wrote...
First off the romance option should only be initiated by the player.  This would help avoid any accidental romances that can be surprising and sometimes upsetting.  In fact this would be a good general rule for any type of romance.  Just because I'm being nice to you does not mean I want to get with you.  As an addition to that if the dialogue wheel is going to return I would like them to keep the "heart" option for romances as a seperate choice.  That way there can be no mistake about what you are saying to the companion

That's really not how it should work at all. A person isn't automatically not interested in you because you don't initiate a 'romance' with them. It should be like in Baldur's gate where for most of the early romance there is no reference to flirting or "let's bang, ok" and it's mainly the character telling a story, which eventually leads to some flirting.
It really isn't hard avoid a romance, and those who accidently choose the wrong option usually don't pay attention at all.

[Rawgrim]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The thread is about ROMANCE OPTIONS. Thats my point. Aveline and Varric wern`t romance options.

So when I say "everyone" i mean all of the romance options. Kind of the heart of the discussion.

But your argueing that merely having an option to flirt was immersion breaking. You're saying having that Heart shaped icon when talking with Anders was immersion breaking. I'm just saying one of your arguements for no-all-bi option is invalid. 

Not exactly sure what you mean. Since Aveline and Varric arn`t a factor at all.

Your arguement is having a heart shaped icon, indicating flirting - indicating an interested Hawke in a particular character - is immersion breaking. 

Because of the presence of characters who do reciprocate Hawke's advances - this arguement is invalid because you don't know if the character will reciprocate. You're talking about immersion breaking and realism and yet you're meta-gaming. Thats the only saving point of this arguement. It's only valid if you know who the romance options are. Which you're kinda supposed to figure out on you're own...

Well the icon made it sure I never needed to figure it out on my own.

But the icon doesn't prove anything, as proven by Aveline.

So if I press the icon while speaking to any of the romance options, I won t start a romance?

We're  not talking about the romance options themselves. We're just talking about the dialog options that you find immersion breaking.

Its explained further back in the thread. Tired of repeating it to everyone who just reads the last page. No offence intended.

[Blackrising]

ScarMK wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

Just do it with origins and majority is happy. God forbid you don't have 4 or 6 different bis to get it on with.

Yes, because this is all about 'getting it on' with people.
I just want to have the same choices as everyone else. Is that so wrong?

I apolgize for that getting it on comment, I was out of line.  No, it is not wrong, but having each romance option attracted to the PC simply because they are the main character does not work either.  You may be the main character, but you do not control everything that happens. 

It's alright.
But it's not really because you're the main character. If you never talked to them or refused to help them with anything, a romance won't happen. So they don't fall in love with you because you're the main character, but because you earned their affection.
Or at least that's the way I see it.

[SergeantCilantro]

making every character bisexual seems very artificial because in real life not everybody is bisexual. its just catering to the fanbase in a very basal way. sexuality is a large part of character, and having one "standard" for it would be as boring as everyone in DA2 being a brown-haired human female born in Fereldan.

variety is the spice of life - gamers who "want it all" should not decide characterization

[brushyourteeth]

I'd love to have a mix of gay, lesbian, straight, and bi companions!

But a lot of players really enjoy being able to control the orientation of the people in their party, and I'm not super interested in fighting to take that away from them.

[alhamel94]

honestly i didnt like any of the romances in da2.
anders is a whiny little girl that does dumb things because hes possessed. not goin for that
isabella is a super pirate ****. hmm not too intriguing
merrill is so innocent to the point that i feel like if i romance her im romancing a 5 year old. not somethin im into
fenris is a crazy slave elf with tattoos everywhere. i think hes going to kill me.

in dao leliana was innocent but wasnt over the top
alistair was a whiny baby but you could fix that
zevran i honestly never liked once again just too ****y i got the impression not that he was bi but that he was just a sex addict
morrigan was a mysterious witch that i never could entirely figure out

maybe its just me but besides the orientation the romances in da2 just were terrible all together.

[Rawgrim]

SergeantCilantro wrote...

making every character bisexual seems very artificial because in real life not everybody is bisexual. its just catering to the fanbase in a very basal way. sexuality is a large part of character, and having one "standard" for it would be as boring as everyone in DA2 being a brown-haired human female born in Fereldan.

variety is the spice of life - gamers who "want it all" should not decide characterization

Exactly. Having both straights, bis, gays in your party adds for alot more spice. The companion interaction alone would be worth it.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

I'd prefer the Mass Effect 3 romance style. It is more realistic.

[Lenimph]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I'd prefer the Mass Effect 3 romance style. It is more realistic.

I prefer dying when my character gets an arrow through their skull. It is more realistic after all. 

[Rawgrim]

Lenimph wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I'd prefer the Mass Effect 3 romance style. It is more realistic.

I prefer dying when my character gets an arrow through their skull. It is more realistic after all. 

Wich is why finishing-moves should return

[daaaav]

sharkboy421 wrote...

I would very much prefer if they kept with DA2's approach and made every romance option available to both genders of the PC.  But I do think there should be a few conditions to go along with making everyone available.

First off the romance option should only be initiated by the player.  This would help avoid any accidental romances that can be surprising and sometimes upsetting.  In fact this would be a good general rule for any type of romance.  Just because I'm being nice to you does not mean I want to get with you.  As an addition to that if the dialogue wheel is going to return I would like them to keep the "heart" option for romances as a seperate choice.  That way there can be no mistake about what you are saying to the companion.

Secondly a character's sexuality should be almost never even be hinted at unless the player is pursuing a romance with that character.  I want to know a characters personality and what drives them and maybe even what they like in a partner, but their orientation should have little impact on their personality. 

Building off that, a character needs to avoid making comments about a preference and flirting with the player unless they will do so regardless of gender, like Isabella or Liara.

I really think these guidlines would allow for people to enjoy the romances they want in the manner they want and also let people avoid the ones they want to avoid.

Don't agree.

I enjoyed the ambiguity of the dialogue in Dragon Age Origins, especially trying to get along with Morrigan. I don't want an instruction manual for my relationships and I don't want to have to initiate every single one.

Also why would you want all characters to hide their sexuality? Thats ridiculous.

I don't really mind if everyone is bi and I don't define foldkpurely by their sexual orientation, but creating authentic characters will be a challenge if they go down this road.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Rawgrim wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I'd prefer the Mass Effect 3 romance style. It is more realistic.

I prefer dying when my character gets an arrow through their skull. It is more realistic after all. 

Wich is why finishing-moves should return

I wish magic had finishers too.

Though this isn't the finisher thread.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:42 .

[Lenimph]

Rawgrim wrote...

Wich is why finishing-moves should return

 

Oh maker no those took too long and looked rediculous when my warden has an arrow stuck in her skull.  

Modifié par Lenimph, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:43 .

[Blackrising]

Rawgrim wrote...

SergeantCilantro wrote...

making every character bisexual seems very artificial because in real life not everybody is bisexual. its just catering to the fanbase in a very basal way. sexuality is a large part of character, and having one "standard" for it would be as boring as everyone in DA2 being a brown-haired human female born in Fereldan.

variety is the spice of life - gamers who "want it all" should not decide characterization

Exactly. Having both straights, bis, gays in your party adds for alot more spice. The companion interaction alone would be worth it.

I...honestly don't see what difference it will make.
Whether a person feels attracted to males, females or both doesn't really impact their personality. It's not like they talk about their orientation constantly.

[Emzamination]

Rawgrim wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Threads like this are amazing.I remember origins had one gay romance (that went both ways) each for gay wardens while the hetero wardens had 2 (3 with with the femwarden) options, yet no one was complaining about the unfair scale tip then because atleast we got something.It was not fair that straight wardens could hook up with leliana and zevran but gay wardens were shut down when trying to hit on morrigan and alistair.This needs to be taken into serious account in Da3.

Well a gay person wouldn`t turn straight just because a straight person hit on himher. the thing here is immersion. Belivability. Not whats fair.

Lets say we have 10 love intersts in DA3. 0 of them are bisexuall, 1 is straight. Even that is an improvement from DA2, since not ALL of them are whatever your character is.

What do you mean it's not about what's fair? If I purchase the same game as you, I deserve an equal amount of content including romances not restricted by sexuality.

If the problem lyes with Bi romances then maybe they should be cut from the game completely.A hetero character should not be able to flaunt between both straight and bi LI while gay characters are restricted to the latter effectively giving them less romances.

[Rawgrim]

Blackrising wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

SergeantCilantro wrote...

making every character bisexual seems very artificial because in real life not everybody is bisexual. its just catering to the fanbase in a very basal way. sexuality is a large part of character, and having one "standard" for it would be as boring as everyone in DA2 being a brown-haired human female born in Fereldan.

variety is the spice of life - gamers who "want it all" should not decide characterization

Exactly. Having both straights, bis, gays in your party adds for alot more spice. The companion interaction alone would be worth it.

I...honestly don't see what difference it will make.
Whether a person feels attracted to males, females or both doesn't really impact their personality. It's not like they talk about their orientation constantly.

Not constantly - no. But Aveline and isabela had some great comments about things like that here and there. Arguably the most fun bits of the party interaction.

[Emzamination]

Reaverwind wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Threads like this are amazing.I remember origins had one gay romance (that went both ways) each for gay wardens while the hetero wardens had 2 (3 with with the femwarden) options, yet no one was complaining about the unfair scale tip then because atleast we got something.It was not fair that straight wardens could hook up with leliana and zevran but gay wardens were shut down when trying to hit on morrigan and alistair.This needs to be taken into serious account in Da3.

Except the hetero-relationship with Leliana was awkward and just plain weird. It was clearly written for a female partner. We got the same problem in spades with DA2, with Bioware wanting to cut corners and write one-size-fits-all romance dialogue. 

I wouldn't have minded an akward romance with morrigan

[Rawgrim]

Emzamination wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Threads like this are amazing.I remember origins had one gay romance (that went both ways) each for gay wardens while the hetero wardens had 2 (3 with with the femwarden) options, yet no one was complaining about the unfair scale tip then because atleast we got something.It was not fair that straight wardens could hook up with leliana and zevran but gay wardens were shut down when trying to hit on morrigan and alistair.This needs to be taken into serious account in Da3.

Well a gay person wouldn`t turn straight just because a straight person hit on himher. the thing here is immersion. Belivability. Not whats fair.

Lets say we have 10 love intersts in DA3. 0 of them are bisexuall, 1 is straight. Even that is an improvement from DA2, since not ALL of them are whatever your character is.

What do you mean it's not about what's fair? If I purchase the same game as you, I deserve an equal amount of content including romances not restricted by sexuality.

If the problem lyes with Bi romances then maybe they should be cut from the game completely.A hetero character should not be able to flaunt between both straight and bi LI while gay characters are restricted to the latter effectively giving them less romances.

Uhm...in my example gay characters would get more romance options?

[zevranarainais]

Nope. I prefer being able to play as a female and still romance whoever the hell I want. In DA2, for instance, when Anders and Fenris were busy with their brooding and angst, Isabela and my Lady Hawkes were getting it on. Sure, I'm a straight girl IRL, but that doesn't matter. Gender does not matter. It shouldn't. End of story. You should be able to romance whoever you want in-game. Inclusivity over exclusivity. 

Luckily, the Dragon Age team is filled with perfect snowflakes who are too cool to listen to gender and sexuality limitations, and who have the ability to make interesting characters who are not defined by which of the genders they want to bang. Imagine that.

Modifié par aetherwyn, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:53 .

[Emzamination]

Rawgrim wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Threads like this are amazing.I remember origins had one gay romance (that went both ways) each for gay wardens while the hetero wardens had 2 (3 with with the femwarden) options, yet no one was complaining about the unfair scale tip then because atleast we got something.It was not fair that straight wardens could hook up with leliana and zevran but gay wardens were shut down when trying to hit on morrigan and alistair.This needs to be taken into serious account in Da3.

Well a gay person wouldn`t turn straight just because a straight person hit on himher. the thing here is immersion. Belivability. Not whats fair.

Lets say we have 10 love intersts in DA3. 0 of them are bisexuall, 1 is straight. Even that is an improvement from DA2, since not ALL of them are whatever your character is.

What do you mean it's not about what's fair? If I purchase the same game as you, I deserve an equal amount of content including romances not restricted by sexuality.

If the problem lyes with Bi romances then maybe they should be cut from the game completely.A hetero character should not be able to flaunt between both straight and bi LI while gay characters are restricted to the latter effectively giving them less romances.

Uhm...in my example gay characters would get more romance options?

You gave a hypothetical example while I'm giving a direct statement.Also the top of your post contradicts the bottom.

[Rawgrim]

aetherwyn wrote...

Nope. I prefer being able to play as a female and still romance whoever the hell I want. In DA2, for instance, when Anders and Fenris were busy with their brooding and angst, Isabela and my Lady Hawkes were getting it on. Sure, I'm a straight girl IRL, but that doesn't matter. Gender does not matter. It shouldn't. End of story. You should be able to romance whoever you want in-game (except when it's extremely against a character's nature, as in Sebastian). 

Luckily, the Dragon Age team is filled with perfect snowflakes who are too cool to listen to gender and sexuality limitations, and who have the ability to make interesting characters who are not defined by which of the genders they want to bang. Imagine that.

Its not about limitations, its about everyone being bisexuall messing up immersion for people.