348 réponses à ce sujet

[MorningBird]

Rawgrim wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

People like to immerse themselves into the fantasy-worldsetting when playing roleplaying games. Every setting has a certain type of rules and things like that. If we are told dragons excist - they do in this world. Its about "realism within an unrealistic setting", if you will. Since no lore in the game says anything about it; Its immersion breaking when companions "change sexuality" just to cater to the PC. Its simplified, and it makes players feel like they are controlling the NPC`s sexual orientation.

And in this world Leliana explicitly states that the Maker doesn't care about the gender of who you screw, so there is far less stigma about sexuality, and she talks about how she would screw bisexual chicks all the time.  

IT WAS PART OF HER JERB 

She also says the maker speaks to her. Its clear she also has her own personal view on religion, and some of it is not in the codex, to pt it that way.

And as a side not: Its not proven that the maker actually exist either, so your example is kind of invalid.

Word of Gaider on the Maker:

This is the point where I rub my temples and wonder why I even bothered at all.

There was no "proof" of God, and yet in medieval Europe the fact that He existed was beyond question. A given person might hate Him or reject Him, but that does not mean He didn't exist. Sure, there might be exceptional individuals, but it was not a thing.

This is also the case in Thedas.

((link: social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/315/index/12890819/5 might need to scroll down))

Basically, even if there is not proof that the Maker actually exists, the mass majority of people in Thedas still believe he is real, so... really not getting how/why her point is suddenly invalid.

Having said that... Dairren (son of Lady Landra in the human noble origin) is nobility.  Probably educated, probably as familiar with the Chantry and it's teachings as anyone in that position would be.  Yet he can easily be persuaded into jumping in bed with a male noble.  Pretty sure that if Leliana was wrong and s/s romance was AGAINST THE MAKER, a noble of his pedigree would be the first to protest.  At the very least, he'd treat such a dalliance with more caution, fearful that other people would catch on.

He doesn't.  Heck, he's completely willing to walk out of the nobles room in his smallclothes... and consequently die, but you get my meaning.

Modifié par MorningBird, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:44 .

[Rawgrim]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

People like to immerse themselves into the fantasy-worldsetting when playing roleplaying games. Every setting has a certain type of rules and things like that. If we are told dragons excist - they do in this world. Its about "realism within an unrealistic setting", if you will. Since no lore in the game says anything about it; Its immersion breaking when companions "change sexuality" just to cater to the PC. Its simplified, and it makes players feel like they are controlling the NPC`s sexual orientation.

And in this world Leliana explicitly states that the Maker doesn't care about the gender of who you screw, so there is far less stigma about sexuality, and she talks about how she would screw bisexual chicks all the time.  

IT WAS PART OF HER JERB 

She also says the maker speaks to her. Its clear she also has her own personal view on religion, and some of it is not in the codex, to pt it that way.

And as a side not: Its not proven that the maker actually exist either, so your example is kind of invalid.

I always thought the presence of the homosexuals in the brothels and the almost complete apathy (Zevran suggests that it still isn't as common as heterosexual) towards homosexual relationships indicated that there wasn't a taboo against it. There maybe some but people seemed to be more hung up on the fact that humans are screwing around with elves. 

this is true. homosexuality arn`t frowned upon much in the DA universe. Never said that it was, or should be.

[Rawgrim]

MorningBird wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

People like to immerse themselves into the fantasy-worldsetting when playing roleplaying games. Every setting has a certain type of rules and things like that. If we are told dragons excist - they do in this world. Its about "realism within an unrealistic setting", if you will. Since no lore in the game says anything about it; Its immersion breaking when companions "change sexuality" just to cater to the PC. Its simplified, and it makes players feel like they are controlling the NPC`s sexual orientation.

And in this world Leliana explicitly states that the Maker doesn't care about the gender of who you screw, so there is far less stigma about sexuality, and she talks about how she would screw bisexual chicks all the time.  

IT WAS PART OF HER JERB 

She also says the maker speaks to her. Its clear she also has her own personal view on religion, and some of it is not in the codex, to pt it that way.

And as a side not: Its not proven that the maker actually exist either, so your example is kind of invalid.

Word of Gaider on the Maker:

This is the point where I rub my temples and wonder why I even bothered at all.

There was no "proof" of God, and yet in medieval Europe the fact that He existed was beyond question. A given person might hate Him or reject Him, but that does not mean He didn't exist. Sure, there might be exceptional individuals, but it was not a thing.

This is also the case in Thedas.

((link: social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/315/index/12890819/5 might need to scroll down))

Basically, even if there is not proof that the Maker actually exists, the mass majority of people in Thedas still believe he is real, so... really not getting how/why her point is suddenly invalid.

Having said that... Dairren (son of Lady Landra in the human noble origin) is nobility.  Probably educated, probably as family with the Chantry and it's teachings as anyone in that position would be.  Yet he can easily be persuaded into jumping in bed with a male noble.  Pretty sure that if Leliana was wrong and s/s romance was AGAINST THE MAKER, a noble of his pedigree would be the first to protest.  At the very least, he'd treat such a dalliance with more caution, fearful that other people would catch on.

He doesn't.  Heck, he's completely willing to walk out of the nobles room in his smallclothes... and consequently die, but you get my meaning.

the point was "No lore says anything about everyone the PC runs into switches sexuality in order to cater to the player".


It s nothing to do with the chantry or anything like that. Homosexuality is accepted in Thedas. It was never an issue in this discussion. Some people are just jumping to conclusions

[devSin]

I have no issue with the available romances in DA2 (well, at least not relating to gender).

If they wish to continue creating gender-inclusive romance content in the future, I would definitely be just fine with that.

[Rawgrim]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, so apparently there's a possibility for compromise.

All companions are available to either gender, but a lot more difficult to romance if the PC is not the gender they usually go for.

Anyone against this idea? Cause if not, I suggest we wrap this up and write a letter to Bioware telling them this is the way to go if they want to satisfy the players.

I suggested the idea in the first place....so duh. 

Its an excelent idea, and I sendt a PM to Gaider about the idea too. Full credit to you for thinking of it.

[zevranarainais]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, so apparently there's a possibility for compromise.

All companions are available to either gender, but a lot more difficult to romance if the PC is not the gender they usually go for.

Anyone against this idea? Cause if not, I suggest we wrap this up and write a letter to Bioware telling them this is the way to go if they want to satisfy the players.

I suggested the idea in the first place....so duh. 

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

[upsettingshorts]

AdmiralDavidAnderson wrote...

I agree. There's no point in it.

The only way anyone could see no point in making romance options bisexual is to be actively and willfully ignorant.

[Rawgrim]

aetherwyn wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, so apparently there's a possibility for compromise.

All companions are available to either gender, but a lot more difficult to romance if the PC is not the gender they usually go for.

Anyone against this idea? Cause if not, I suggest we wrap this up and write a letter to Bioware telling them this is the way to go if they want to satisfy the players.

I suggested the idea in the first place....so duh. 

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

I suggest you re-read the thread. You are obviously missing quite a few points.

[brushyourteeth]

aetherwyn wrote...

Hmm.. for me, I think it's more like... as this is a game, sexuality should be relative (or, in your words, subjective). Does that mean all characters are interested in you? Varric and Aveline say no. It just means that, for the available LIs, they can be interested in either gender because gender doesn't play a huge role in those relationships; it's more about people being with people than males with males or females with females, you know? 

Oh, I don't know if I'm explaining myself well. I'm a straight female, too, so I definitely understand what you're saying, but the appropriate words to clarify what I'm trying to say aren't coming out. Blah.

Basically, I think that for these charcters, they are what you want them to be, in a way. Which some people clearly see as a negative, but I don't. I think it's a positive, inclusivity and all that jazz. And here I give up. XD

Anyway, it was a pleasure talking to you, too! I think you articulated what others have been trying to say quite nicely, and you definitely made me understand the opposing side far better than I originally had. Thanks very much!

I think you described yourself really well! And it does make sense. It's still not my favorite way to do things, but everybody's different, right? And I can totally see where it's got some definite benefits, which you explained about as well as I've ever seen them described. +1!  

[Lenimph]

Rawgrim wrote...
the point was "No lore says anything about everyone the PC runs into switches sexuality in order to cater to the player".


It s nothing to do with the chantry or anything like that. Homosexuality is accepted in Thedas. It was never an issue in this discussion. Some people are just jumping to conclusions

First of all Hawke's LI do not switch their sexuality for them. They are all bi.  Isn't that the big immersion breaking problem?

Second of all you said that the lore said nothing about rules about being bi,gay, whatever which is a big lie. 

Modifié par Lenimph, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:51 .

[zevranarainais]

Rawgrim wrote...

aetherwyn wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, so apparently there's a possibility for compromise.

All companions are available to either gender, but a lot more difficult to romance if the PC is not the gender they usually go for.

Anyone against this idea? Cause if not, I suggest we wrap this up and write a letter to Bioware telling them this is the way to go if they want to satisfy the players.

I suggested the idea in the first place....so duh. 

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

I suggest you re-read the thread. You are obviously missing quite a few points.

If you want to point out the fact that I'm missing points, a summary would be appreciated. (And I'm not being internet!snarky here -- I mean, I would actually really appreciate a summary of what you think I'm missing, no joke).

[MorningBird]

Rawgrim wrote...

the point was "No lore says anything about everyone the PC runs into switches sexuality in order to cater to the player".


It s nothing to do with the chantry or anything like that. Homosexuality is accepted in Thedas. It was never an issue in this discussion. Some people are just jumping to conclusions

Aaah, okay.  I figured I may have confused something you were saying in lieu of your last post!

Granted, I don't exactly know what you're expecting from the lore?  The 'player' doesn't really exist, after all, only the Warden/Hawke.

That aside, I'm pretty sure a dev said (some time back, I would have to dig for it) that no LI 'switches' sexuality for Hawke.  They simply are what they are and like/love who they please.  Whether or not they choose to divulge every facet of their sexual identity to the Warden/Hawke depends on the character in question.

For DA2, Isabela and Anders would openly express their interest in a Hawke of either gender.

Hawke has to make the first move if they want to pursue a s/s romance with Merrill or Fenris, however.

Outside of metagaming, you would never learn that both Merrill and Fenris are bi otherwise.

[Rawgrim]

Lenimph wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
the point was "No lore says anything about everyone the PC runs into switches sexuality in order to cater to the player".


It s nothing to do with the chantry or anything like that. Homosexuality is accepted in Thedas. It was never an issue in this discussion. Some people are just jumping to conclusions

First of all Hawke's LI do not switch their sexuality for them. They are all bi.  Isn't that the big immersion breaking problem?

Second of all you said that the lore said nothing about rules about being bi,gay, whatever which is a big lie. 

It feels like they switch sexuality. Read the thread. Its like you are commenting on a book when you have not read the first 100 pages.

Secondly: I said the Lore never said anything about people falling for the PC no matter their sexuall orientation. No info about it when it comes to the Hawke family, to put it that way.

[SgtElias]

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, so apparently there's a possibility for compromise.

All companions are available to either gender, but a lot more difficult to romance if the PC is not the gender they usually go for.

Anyone against this idea? Cause if not, I suggest we wrap this up and write a letter to Bioware telling them this is the way to go if they want to satisfy the players.

While I'm personally fine with this idea, there is no way to "satisfy the players." No matter what option is chosen, and no matter how it's implemented, someone is going to post irate messages about how that content is immersion-breaking, unfair, non-inclusive, or completely unnecessary in some way. I haven't been on the BSN for as long as many of you, but I've been here long enough to realize that.

For myself personally, I loved all the romances being bisexual in DA2. I thought at the time, "Surely this is the best possible compromise? Everyone can romance who they want, there's more content that's available to everyone, this is the perfect solution!" I was, literally, completely speechless when I hopped on the forums after DA2's launch and saw how many people hated it. It had honestly never occured to me that anyone would have a problem with it.

That's not to say that those people who disliked it are wrong in any way; I had just personally never considered that it would be met with anything other than priase.

I should also mention that I myself am bisexual, so I suppose it's not to hard to see that my own biases color my interpretation of this issue.

[Rawgrim]

aetherwyn wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

aetherwyn wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, so apparently there's a possibility for compromise.

All companions are available to either gender, but a lot more difficult to romance if the PC is not the gender they usually go for.

Anyone against this idea? Cause if not, I suggest we wrap this up and write a letter to Bioware telling them this is the way to go if they want to satisfy the players.

I suggested the idea in the first place....so duh. 

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

I suggest you re-read the thread. You are obviously missing quite a few points.

If you want to point out the fact that I'm missing points, a summary would be appreciated. (And I'm not being internet!snarky here -- I mean, I would actually really appreciate a summary of what you think I'm missing, no joke).

I`d gladly do it, but not now. I just don`t want to right now, hehe.

[Daveros]

Rawgrim wrote...

aetherwyn wrote...

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

I suggest you re-read the thread. You are obviously missing quite a few points.

I don't know, I see a very valid point there. If the sexuality of the character is set, except in the case of the PC, then that seems, on a wider scale, very un-inclusive indeed. I am by no means happy with the idea of a "you're the only one who could turn me" set up.

Modifié par Daveros, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:58 .

[Blackrising]

aetherwyn wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Okay, so apparently there's a possibility for compromise.

All companions are available to either gender, but a lot more difficult to romance if the PC is not the gender they usually go for.

Anyone against this idea? Cause if not, I suggest we wrap this up and write a letter to Bioware telling them this is the way to go if they want to satisfy the players.

I suggested the idea in the first place....so duh. 

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

I might have summarised that wrong...
It's not about forcing characters into anything.
It's a Kinsey scale sort of thing. If a female character is, say a 2, then it would be harder for a female PC to romance her than a male.

[Rawgrim]

MorningBird wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

the point was "No lore says anything about everyone the PC runs into switches sexuality in order to cater to the player".


It s nothing to do with the chantry or anything like that. Homosexuality is accepted in Thedas. It was never an issue in this discussion. Some people are just jumping to conclusions

Aaah, okay.  I figured I may have confused something you were saying in lieu of your last post!

Granted, I don't exactly know what you're expecting from the lore?  The 'player' doesn't really exist, after all, only the Warden/Hawke.

That aside, I'm pretty sure a dev said (some time back, I would have to dig for it) that no LI 'switches' sexuality for Hawke.  They simply are what they are and like/love who they please.  Whether or not they choose to divulge every facet of their sexual identity to the Warden/Hawke depends on the character in question.

For DA2, Isabela and Anders would openly express their interest in a Hawke of either gender.

Hawke has to make the first move if they want to pursue a s/s romance with Merrill or Fenris, however.

Outside of metagaming, you would never learn that both Merrill and Fenris are bi otherwise.

Ohh don`t worry about it. i do get confusing sometimes.

I was using the lore as an example to make a point. Something like this. If you look at the codex for the Hawke family, there is nothing in there to suggest people fall for members of that family, no matter their gender or sexuality.  It was just an example to explain how every love interest "shifting" COULD be immersion breaking to someone.

[MACharlie1]

Daveros wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

aetherwyn wrote...

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

I suggest you re-read the thread. You are obviously missing quite a few points.

I don't know, I see a very valid point there. If the sexuality of the character is set, except in the case of the PC, then that seems, on a wider scale, very un-inclusive indeed and I am by no means happy with the idea.

Thats the thing - it is set. 

Look up Kinsey Scale. Anders could have been say a 2 - which would be 60% straight. With Lady Hawke, he'd jump right into bed. With ManHawke, he has to do a little persuation to get him going. 

Isabela, would be a 3 which is 50/50 bisexual.

No character would EVER say be a 0 or a 6 since thats exclusive ******/hetero.

Modifié par MACharlie1, 19 septembre 2012 - 05:02 .

[Vandicus]

MorningBird wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

the point was "No lore says anything about everyone the PC runs into switches sexuality in order to cater to the player".


It s nothing to do with the chantry or anything like that. Homosexuality is accepted in Thedas. It was never an issue in this discussion. Some people are just jumping to conclusions

Aaah, okay.  I figured I may have confused something you were saying in lieu of your last post!

Granted, I don't exactly know what you're expecting from the lore?  The 'player' doesn't really exist, after all, only the Warden/Hawke.

That aside, I'm pretty sure a dev said (some time back, I would have to dig for it) that no LI 'switches' sexuality for Hawke.  They simply are what they are and like/love who they please.  Whether or not they choose to divulge every facet of their sexual identity to the Warden/Hawke depends on the character in question.

For DA2, Isabela and Anders would openly express their interest in a Hawke of either gender.

Hawke has to make the first move if they want to pursue a s/s romance with Merrill or Fenris, however.

Outside of metagaming, you would never learn that both Merrill and Fenris are bi otherwise.

Its sort've hard to believe that the NPCs' orientations are not designed simply for player convenience when all the romance options available just happened to be bisexual. Anders is probably the most immersion breaking example. He appears to have an established sexuality in DA:A that appears to be ignored in DA2 for the sake of convenience. You could argue that we simply didn't know, but don't you find it at least a little suspicious when every romanceable NPC in the game is bisexual?

Makes it feel like the PC is a bit of a Mary Sue character. How is that all these bisexual characters also conveniently happen to have no other relationships that might interefere with the romance? More convenience for the player that way.  

[Rawgrim]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Daveros wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

aetherwyn wrote...

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

I suggest you re-read the thread. You are obviously missing quite a few points.

I don't know, I see a very valid point there. If the sexuality of the character is set, except in the case of the PC, then that seems, on a wider scale, very un-inclusive indeed and I am by no means happy with the idea.

Thats the thing - it is set. 

Look up Kinsey Scale. Anders could have been say a 2 - which would be 60% straight. With Lady Hawke, he'd jump right into bed. With ManHawke, he has to do a little persuation to get him going. 

Isabela, would be a 3 which is 50/50 bisexual.

Exactly. That way people won`t get the "everyone is bi" right up in their face from the beginning either. You`d have to more or less activly look for it in some of them.

[HiroVoid]

SgtElias wrote...
While I'm personally fine with this idea, there is no way to "satisfy the players." No matter what option is chosen, and no matter how it's implemented, someone is going to post irate messages about how that content is immersion-breaking, unfair, non-inclusive, or completely unnecessary in some way. I haven't been on the BSN for as long as many of you, but I've been here long enough to realize that.

You don't need to be on this forum to realize that.  It doesn't help much that we really don't know what Thedas is like except for being informed.  All I remember reading about being bisexual or homosexual back before even DAO was released was that it was considered unusual, but not really a bad kind of unusual.  I forgot the exact word for it since it's been about 3-4 years now.

I also think part of the 'we're only informed about Thedas' is also part of the reason it's hard to take the mage issue seriously.  We don't really know how common abomination attacks are when most of the time, it seems we only hear about them when a Templar mentions they became one because an abomination destroyed their town.

[MACharlie1]

Rawgrim wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Daveros wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

aetherwyn wrote...

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

I suggest you re-read the thread. You are obviously missing quite a few points.

I don't know, I see a very valid point there. If the sexuality of the character is set, except in the case of the PC, then that seems, on a wider scale, very un-inclusive indeed and I am by no means happy with the idea.

Thats the thing - it is set. 

Look up Kinsey Scale. Anders could have been say a 2 - which would be 60% straight. With Lady Hawke, he'd jump right into bed. With ManHawke, he has to do a little persuation to get him going. 

Isabela, would be a 3 which is 50/50 bisexual.

Exactly. That way people won`t get the "everyone is bi" right up in their face from the beginning either. You`d have to more or less activly look for it in some of them.

On top of that, the romances would be different for man/fem players. I wouldn't date a guy the same way I'd date a girl. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Rawgrim wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Daveros wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

aetherwyn wrote...

If people who don't want LIs to be available to either gender because it's "immersion breaking" or "Hawke-sexual," this seems a hell of a lot more immersion breaking to me. Forcing characters who are typically straight or gay to fall for your character regardless of who they "usually go for"? 

Yeah, I have a problem with that. I mean, if we were talking fluid sexuality, that'd be one thing -- but this seems to have sprung up in response to the desire not to have LIs open to both genders -- just open to the PC, whoever he or she is.

Um, wow.

I suggest you re-read the thread. You are obviously missing quite a few points.

I don't know, I see a very valid point there. If the sexuality of the character is set, except in the case of the PC, then that seems, on a wider scale, very un-inclusive indeed and I am by no means happy with the idea.

Thats the thing - it is set. 

Look up Kinsey Scale. Anders could have been say a 2 - which would be 60% straight. With Lady Hawke, he'd jump right into bed. With ManHawke, he has to do a little persuation to get him going. 

Isabela, would be a 3 which is 50/50 bisexual.

Exactly. That way people won`t get the "everyone is bi" right up in their face from the beginning either. You`d have to more or less activly look for it in some of them.

I would actually like that a lot. That way straight gamers don't have to complain about the ghey in their games until they actively seek for it.