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[Emzamination]

Rawgrim wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

When everyone is BI, it ends up removing the point of playing male or female. In DA2, you got treated exactly the same no matter what gender you are. And for characters just "turning gay" in order to suit players needs, was immensely immersion breaking. Wich race being removed, and gender having absolutely no affect on the game, the only thing left would be the class you pick. Nothing more.

Turning? They aren't vampires or werewolves or any other supernatural paranormal Being gay is a life choice not something you turn into.

Well if a guy is straight when you play a female, and gay when you start a new game playing a male...Its immersion breaking, and frankly it messes up replayability abit too. You get the exact same romance with a character no matter what gender you are playing. Meaning you pretty much get the exact same game as well. Gender won`t matter.

Yes that would be horrible, unless of course he was bi which means he likes girls as well as guys.His second preference wouldn't trouble me over much as long as our relationship wasn't affected by it in anyway.

Modifié par Emzamination, 19 septembre 2012 - 01:39 .

[Maria Caliban]

darfurnub wrote...

Bisexuality does not make sense for every character.

The love interests in Dragon Age 2 also have great bodies, flawless hair, skin, and teeth, and seemly have access to contraceptives and disease pretension. I'm not sure this make sense either.

Reality sometimes gives way to an idealized state.

[Renmiri1]

** duplicate post **

Modifié par Renmiri1, 19 septembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[Emzamination]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

When everyone is BI, it ends up removing the point of playing male or female. In DA2, you got treated exactly the same no matter what gender you are. And for characters just "turning gay" in order to suit players needs, was immensely immersion breaking. Wich race being removed, and gender having absolutely no affect on the game, the only thing left would be the class you pick. Nothing more.

Turning? They aren't vampires or werewolves or any other supernatural paranormal Being gay is a life choice not something you turn into.

Well if a guy is straight when you play a female, and gay when you start a new game playing a male...Its immersion breaking, and frankly it messes up replayability abit too. You get the exact same romance with a character no matter what gender you are playing. Meaning you pretty much get the exact same game as well. Gender won`t matter.

That is the idea. Gender doesn't matter.

And if you can't start a new game and go through the same plot with a different character, then is not the fact that LIs are bi that is breaking your immersion. It is you metagaming and being unable to separate one playthrough from another. 

^ beautiful

[goofyomnivore]

Honestly romance is a small part of the game and truthfully the romances are quite vanilla/not very deep so things that could be explored by a static orientation aren't explored anyways. So why not just make them available to everyone?

If they started making deeper romances I could see the whole bi thing becoming a problem but the current quality of them it really doesn't impact much outside of a few hiccups when you're a little too nice to Anders, and you gotta break his heart.

[Reaverwind]

darfurnub wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Agreed 100%

Thedas is a world where women can be Grand Clerics, Divines and Knight Commanders. Is a world where Circles have nothing to do but study or experiment  And the Chantry has it's hands busy with being against mages, having no time to "pray away the gay". 

People in Thedas have short lives, that often end violently and their religion is not homophobic at all, it has bigger fish to fry. It makes perfect sense that sexuality is fluid and being bi is not uncommon. Love is found where you can get it, before you meet your end at some darkspawn infested pit, some demon possessed mage or some violent raider / slaver / assassin's hands. 

Ummm... then why were there exclusively-heterosexual romances in Dragon Age Origins? 

If they were going to go the "Everyone in this alternate universe is bisexual" route, they should have started it off like that. There are straight characters in the universe of dragon age, therefore not everybody is bisexual. If all the LIs in Origins were also bisexual, it would have fit in with the lore and I may have not been complaining at all in the first place. 

If they want to do this, they need to go back and make Morrigan and Allistair available to both genders. 

It still won't work. I've yet to see anyone relate to different genders the same way, no matter the orientation. That's part of why a heterosexual romance with Leliana was so jarring (and creepy). The cheap way the romances were handled in DA2 made it even worse.

[darfurnub]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...



Well if a guy is straight when you play a female, and gay when you start a new game playing a male...Its immersion breaking, and frankly it messes up replayability abit too. You get the exact same romance with a character no matter what gender you are playing. Meaning you pretty much get the exact same game as well. Gender won`t matter.

That is the idea. Gender doesn't matter.

And if you can't start a new game and go through the same plot with a different character, then is not the fact that LIs are bi that is breaking your immersion. It is you metagaming and being unable to separate one playthrough from another. 

Then why were Morrigan and Allistair exclusively heterosexual? Gender matters in the dragon age universe, and that was set in place by having exclusively heterosexual romances in the first game. If they had made all the LIs bisexual in the first game your argument would have been great. 

Modifié par darfurnub, 19 septembre 2012 - 01:43 .

[Rawgrim]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

When everyone is BI, it ends up removing the point of playing male or female. In DA2, you got treated exactly the same no matter what gender you are. And for characters just "turning gay" in order to suit players needs, was immensely immersion breaking. Wich race being removed, and gender having absolutely no affect on the game, the only thing left would be the class you pick. Nothing more.

Turning? They aren't vampires or werewolves or any other supernatural paranormal Being gay is a life choice not something you turn into.

Well if a guy is straight when you play a female, and gay when you start a new game playing a male...Its immersion breaking, and frankly it messes up replayability abit too. You get the exact same romance with a character no matter what gender you are playing. Meaning you pretty much get the exact same game as well. Gender won`t matter.

That is the idea. Gender doesn't matter.

And if you can't start a new game and go through the same plot with a different character, then is not the fact that LIs are bi that is breaking your immersion. It is you metagaming and being unable to separate one playthrough from another. 

Not really. Because when I see the romance icon in the dialogue, i know that if I chose that one, I will find out the character is "gay". Ergo it break immersion. I know by talking to them that they are bisexual, and it breaks immersion. Everyone I can possibly be romantically involved with is bisexual, just to cater to players, rather than having it as a character trait or something like that. With Zevran, for example, his bisexuality fit like a glove, and it added to his character. in DA2 they just seemed like "visual option for sex scene 1, 2, 3, and 4).

[Renmiri1]

Is not like your hetero LI will give you "gay cooties" because someone else plays the same LI as F/F or M/M. Sheesh!

[Emzamination]

darfurnub wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...



Well if a guy is straight when you play a female, and gay when you start a new game playing a male...Its immersion breaking, and frankly it messes up replayability abit too. You get the exact same romance with a character no matter what gender you are playing. Meaning you pretty much get the exact same game as well. Gender won`t matter.

That is the idea. Gender doesn't matter.

And if you can't start a new game and go through the same plot with a different character, then is not the fact that LIs are bi that is breaking your immersion. It is you metagaming and being unable to separate one playthrough from another. 

Then why were Morrigan and Allistair exclusively heterosexual? Gender matters in the dragon age universe, and that was set in place by having exclusively heterosexual romances in the first game. If they had made all the LIs bisexual in the first game your argument would have been great. 

Morrigan is not exclusively heterosexual as she expresses jealousy at a Female warden/leliana romance during the Friendship talk unmodded.

Modifié par Emzamination, 19 septembre 2012 - 01:46 .

[Rawgrim]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Is not like your hetero LI will give you "gay cooties" because someone else plays the same LI as F/F or M/M. Sheesh!

Never said that. I said its immersion breaking when everyone is Bisexual.

[Gallimatia]

Rawgrim wrote...

Not really. Because when I see the romance icon in the dialogue, i know that if I chose that one, I will find out the character is "gay". Ergo it break immersion. I know by talking to them that they are bisexual, and it breaks immersion. Everyone I can possibly be romantically involved with is bisexual, just to cater to players, rather than having it as a character trait or something like that. With Zevran, for example, his bisexuality fit like a glove, and it added to his character. in DA2 they just seemed like "visual option for sex scene 1, 2, 3, and 4).

That you know this to be true is because of a gigantic flaw in Bioware's straight LI's. That you can't flirt with them as the same gender and be rejected.

[Rawgrim]

Emzamination wrote...

darfurnub wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...



Well if a guy is straight when you play a female, and gay when you start a new game playing a male...Its immersion breaking, and frankly it messes up replayability abit too. You get the exact same romance with a character no matter what gender you are playing. Meaning you pretty much get the exact same game as well. Gender won`t matter.

That is the idea. Gender doesn't matter.

And if you can't start a new game and go through the same plot with a different character, then is not the fact that LIs are bi that is breaking your immersion. It is you metagaming and being unable to separate one playthrough from another. 

Then why were Morrigan and Allistair exclusively heterosexual? Gender matters in the dragon age universe, and that was set in place by having exclusively heterosexual romances in the first game. If they had made all the LIs bisexual in the first game your argument would have been great. 

Morrigan is not exclusively heterosexual as she expresses jealousy at a Female warden/leliana romance during the Friendship talk unmodded.

Of their relationship. the love they have. Not their sexuality.

[goofyomnivore]

Morrigan is not exclusively heterosexual as she expresses jealousy at a Female warden/leliana romance during the Friendship talk unmodded.

I think she is more jealous that your Warden has found love/passion not the fact you hooked up with a hot redhead. She says the same thing to a male Warden who hooked up with Leliana. The only instance Morrigan makes a comment about sexual orientation is when she declines a threesome with Isabela that could be from preference or jealousy though.

[The Uncanny]

Rawgrim wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Is not like your hetero LI will give you "gay cooties" because someone else plays the same LI as F/F or M/M. Sheesh!

Never said that. I said its immersion breaking when everyone is Bisexual.

But how do you know they are?

[darfurnub]

Reaverwind wrote...

darfurnub wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Agreed 100%

Thedas is a world where women can be Grand Clerics, Divines and Knight Commanders. Is a world where Circles have nothing to do but study or experiment  And the Chantry has it's hands busy with being against mages, having no time to "pray away the gay". 

People in Thedas have short lives, that often end violently and their religion is not homophobic at all, it has bigger fish to fry. It makes perfect sense that sexuality is fluid and being bi is not uncommon. Love is found where you can get it, before you meet your end at some darkspawn infested pit, some demon possessed mage or some violent raider / slaver / assassin's hands. 

Ummm... then why were there exclusively-heterosexual romances in Dragon Age Origins? 

If they were going to go the "Everyone in this alternate universe is bisexual" route, they should have started it off like that. There are straight characters in the universe of dragon age, therefore not everybody is bisexual. If all the LIs in Origins were also bisexual, it would have fit in with the lore and I may have not been complaining at all in the first place. 

If they want to do this, they need to go back and make Morrigan and Allistair available to both genders. 

It still won't work. I've yet to see anyone relate to different genders the same way, no matter the orientation. That's part of why a heterosexual romance with Leliana was so jarring (and creepy). The cheap way the romances were handled in DA2 made it even worse.

Mostly agree. They really should have given a male warden a different leliana relationship than the female warden. Leliana would not have treated those two characters in the exact same way.

[Rawgrim]

The Uncanny wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Is not like your hetero LI will give you "gay cooties" because someone else plays the same LI as F/F or M/M. Sheesh!

Never said that. I said its immersion breaking when everyone is Bisexual.

But how do you know they are?

The love icon told me. I see that one as a "vibe" in a way. Your character thinks he has a chance with he person, and can hit on the person as a result.

[HiroVoid]

Maria Caliban wrote....

teeth

Reality sometimes gives way to an idealized state.
I miss DAO teeth.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 19 septembre 2012 - 01:53 .

[Emzamination]

strive wrote...

Morrigan is not exclusively heterosexual as she expresses jealousy at a Female warden/leliana romance during the Friendship talk unmodded.

I think she is more jealous that your Warden has found love/passion not the fact you hooked up with a hot redhead. She says the same thing to a male Warden who hooked up with Leliana. The only instance Morrigan makes a comment about sexual orientation is when she declines a threesome with Isabela that could be from preference or jealousy though.

I stand corrected

[Cartims]

The Uncanny wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Is not like your hetero LI will give you "gay cooties" because someone else plays the same LI as F/F or M/M. Sheesh!

Never said that. I said its immersion breaking when everyone is Bisexual.

But how do you know they are?

This is so true...when I am with someone there is no OTHER.

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

I agree. I like how BioWare handled romances in ME3 and DAO. Why you ask? Well for one it goes against the character. Like Anders for example. He said (repeatedly) how he wanted a girl and hit on Velanna a couple of times in Awakening. "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lighting at fools." It also makes you feel awkward when you're straight and trying to do a playthrough as a guy or girl. No offense intended to anyone when I say that. Like when I was trying to do a playthrough as a guy a couple of days ago and Anders hit on my guy. I felt extremely awkward. Or playing through my FemHawke and Isabela tried to get me to sleep with her. I get the point behind it, but it completely defeats the purpose in playing through as a different gender. Make it like in DAO and ME3 where you have straight, bisexual, and gay/lesbian. Appeals to all audiences, no one feels awkward, and its true to the characters. Everyone is happy.

[Renmiri1]

darfurnub wrote...


Then why were Morrigan and Allistair exclusively heterosexual? Gender matters in the dragon age universe, and that was set in place by having exclusively heterosexual romances in the first game. If they had made all the LIs bisexual in the first game your argument would have been great. 

Guess what, there are different people in Thedas! IKR ? Shocking!!

Thedas violent and troubled society makes it likely that people's sexuality is fluid and being bi is common. Doesn't mean that all people in Thedas will be 100% the same. Morrigan was created away from society, maybe she only learned one "right" way to love. Alistair was a virgin, maybe he was not exactly hetero but assexual until your Warden showed him the alternative 

There are a lot of ways you can make DAO and DA2 sexuality fit the world of Thedas. Saying that one heart icon breaks your immersion because it means you could - gasp - chose to be gay on your own playthrough with no one looking.. is silly! Don't take that option. Seeing the Arishok declare the invasion of Kirkwall twice doesn't break your immersion but a silly heart icon does ? Gimme a break! 

[Heather Cline]

What Car and Canny said.