348 réponses à ce sujet

[Gibb_Shepard]

Inb4 "anyone who doesn't agree with me are just privileged white males".

[challenger18]

No, keep it bisexual. That way no one can complain when the character they want to romance is not available for their gender.

Or, how about we get rid of romances completely since people feel the need to segregate them from certain groups of people.

[Blackrising]

darfurnub wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

And here we go again. I believe I made my stance on the matter quite clear on numerous occasions, but I like talking about this, so I'll do it again.
Companions being exclusively gay or straight is in fact more unrealistic than them being bisexual. Why? Because no one is.There is no black and white in sexuality, only shades of gray.

I may define myself as gay, but in reality it's more like 70/30.

Imagine you meet a person. That person is kind, funny and everything else you've ever wanted in a partner. And you fall in love with them.
That is what happens in DA 2. Gender simply doesn't matter, because the LI falls in love with the person Hawke and not his/her gender.

And if you look at the 'real world', you can see that the matter of 'sexuality' starts to blur more and more. With society becoming more accepting, people are less afraid to go after what they want.
So don't try to claim it's about realism.

Furthermore, shouldn't gay people who don't want to be forced to play as the other gender have as much of a choice as straight people? Everyday, whether it be TV shows or movies or books or games, I have straight romances shoved at me. I can't avoid them, even if I try. And I'm honestly sick of it. But I know I have to accept it, because even if it's not what I want, I have no intention of taking anything away from the people who do like it and can identify with it.
So why can't you?

/steps down from soapbox

Not to mention that if we had bisexual, straight and gay LIs, everyone would be unhappy. Because then there'd always be a character you can't have. And people always tend to want what they can't have.
And a problem shared is not a problem halved, at least not in this case.

Please don't try to speak for the entire lgbt community. Some of us do define as 100% gay or lesbian, and not in the gray area. 

I wasn't trying to speak for the entire LGBT community. I just stated my opinion.
I do not think that there's anyone who is either 100 % straight or 100 % gay. I think that there is always a chance, even if it's small, that you fall in love with someone who does not have the gender you usually prefer.

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

Blackrising wrote...

And here we go again. I believe I made my stance on the matter quite clear on numerous occasions, but I like talking about this, so I'll do it again.
Companions being exclusively gay or straight is in fact more unrealistic than them being bisexual. Why? Because no one is.There is no black and white in sexuality, only shades of gray.

I may define myself as gay, but in reality it's more like 70/30.

Imagine you meet a person. That person is kind, funny and everything else you've ever wanted in a partner. And you fall in love with them.
That is what happens in DA 2. Gender simply doesn't matter, because the LI falls in love with the person Hawke and not his/her gender.

And if you look at the 'real world', you can see that the matter of 'sexuality' starts to blur more and more. With society becoming more accepting, people are less afraid to go after what they want.
So don't try to claim it's about realism.

Furthermore, shouldn't gay people who don't want to be forced to play as the other gender have as much of a choice as straight people? Everyday, whether it be TV shows or movies or books or games, I have straight romances shoved at me. I can't avoid them, even if I try. And I'm honestly sick of it. But I know I have to accept it, because even if it's not what I want, I have no intention of taking anything away from the people who do like it and can identify with it.
So why can't you?

/steps down from soapbox

Not to mention that if we had bisexual, straight and gay LIs, everyone would be unhappy. Because then there'd always be a character you can't have. And people always tend to want what they can't have.
And a problem shared is not a problem halved, at least not in this case.

So according to you I'm actually bisexual? Well that's new. Because last time I checked I was attracted to guys. *checks again* Yep, still attracted to guys.  So sorry to dissapoint.

[Nerdage]

Frankly, I'd prefer they keep all the romances open for either gender and limit them by something that's actually interesting from a roleplaying perspective, like allegiance or morality.

Example:

NPC: "Sorry, I can't love someone who supports the templars."
They're questioning your values, maybe changing your perspective and influencing your decision making. Interesting stuff to RP with.

NPC: "Sorry, don't like guys."
"Well I'm glad we got that sorted... Let's move on, shall we?" I've learnt nothing about them, they've not made me think, and the story/experience has gained exactly nothing.

[FumikoM]

Vandicus wrote...

FumikoM wrote...

The characters you could romance in DA2 was more pansexual then anything else. It was your personality they liked and then fell in love with, not your body. They did not care what you had between your legs.

It actually makes more sense if most of them are bi/pansexual, rather then straight or lesbian/gay. It's only humans who think this way since we think what exist now is "natural", while in nature a lot of animals are not straight or lesbian/gay, they are bisexual. Well okay, animals don't care for sexuality, they just have sex and reproduce...

A. people can love each other without banging each other (surprising right?)
B. really /facepalm at what you said about straight/lesbian/gay/bisexual/pansexual people being a result of upbringing. Just wow. No, gay people were not raised to be gay. Trying to raise someone gay doesn't work(its been tried before after an unfortunate incident involving circumcision).
C. Animals can be straight/gay/bi/whatever. In general they are straight, much like how humans are generally straight. Its really just an evolution/carrying on the species thing.

Learn to read. There is nothing about upbringing in my post. As a LGBTQ person myself your post is just insulting.The point is that what people see as "natural" is something nature does not give a damn about. And no, animals are not in general straight, animals don't think that way at all. It's humans who love to categorize. Like you do.

[Sylvianus]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Inb4 "anyone who doesn't agree with me are just privileged white males".

What ? They didn't already said that ? What the **** ? I am disappointed bsn.

[Vandicus]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Inb4 "anyone who doesn't agree with me are just privileged white males".

Too late. Read the post above yours. 

Modifié par Vandicus, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:29 .

[Rawgrim]

Blackrising wrote...

darfurnub wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

And here we go again. I believe I made my stance on the matter quite clear on numerous occasions, but I like talking about this, so I'll do it again.
Companions being exclusively gay or straight is in fact more unrealistic than them being bisexual. Why? Because no one is.There is no black and white in sexuality, only shades of gray.

I may define myself as gay, but in reality it's more like 70/30.

Imagine you meet a person. That person is kind, funny and everything else you've ever wanted in a partner. And you fall in love with them.
That is what happens in DA 2. Gender simply doesn't matter, because the LI falls in love with the person Hawke and not his/her gender.

And if you look at the 'real world', you can see that the matter of 'sexuality' starts to blur more and more. With society becoming more accepting, people are less afraid to go after what they want.
So don't try to claim it's about realism.

Furthermore, shouldn't gay people who don't want to be forced to play as the other gender have as much of a choice as straight people? Everyday, whether it be TV shows or movies or books or games, I have straight romances shoved at me. I can't avoid them, even if I try. And I'm honestly sick of it. But I know I have to accept it, because even if it's not what I want, I have no intention of taking anything away from the people who do like it and can identify with it.
So why can't you?

/steps down from soapbox

Not to mention that if we had bisexual, straight and gay LIs, everyone would be unhappy. Because then there'd always be a character you can't have. And people always tend to want what they can't have.
And a problem shared is not a problem halved, at least not in this case.

Please don't try to speak for the entire lgbt community. Some of us do define as 100% gay or lesbian, and not in the gray area. 

I wasn't trying to speak for the entire LGBT community. I just stated my opinion.
I do not think that there's anyone who is either 100 % straight or 100 % gay. I think that there is always a chance, even if it's small, that you fall in love with someone who does not have the gender you usually prefer.

well, in my case, I find the thought of having sex with another man repulsive, and consider it the ultimate turn off. I guess that means I am 100 percent straight. i am just wired that way. This doesn`t mean I have anything at all against gay people, though.

[darfurnub]

Blackrising wrote...

I wasn't trying to speak for the entire LGBT community. I just stated my opinion.
I do not think that there's anyone who is either 100 % straight or 100 % gay. I think that there is always a chance, even if it's small, that you fall in love with someone who does not have the gender you usually prefer.

Falling in love =/= sexual attraction. 

Sexuality is sexual attraction, not romantic attraction. Yes, a homosexual person can be bi-romantic. That does not make them sexually attracted to those of the opposite sex. Love and sex do not have to go hand in hand, and bioware certainly doesn't stick to that. (EX: Jack ME2, option for renegade sex without a relationship). 

[Blackrising]

[quote]Rawgrim wrote...

[quote]Cartims wrote...

[/quote]

"Society becoming more accepting of it, doesn`t mean more and more people are becoming bisexualls..."

[/quote]

We are what we are...just let us be who WE ARE...straight, gay. bisexual...that's why we have colors, who want to live a life in black and white. Now...go play.

[/quote]

i agree. I was just pointing out a big flaw in the other posters logic.

[/quote]

No, it does not mean that more people are becoming bisexual. And I never said that.
I just meant that many people who may have an interest in exploring that part of themselves are becoming more brave due to that acceptance.

[Eternal Dust]

Rawgrim wrote...

Eternal Dust wrote...

Oh boy. I do love how we try to impose the ideals of our contemporary society onto a fictional world and pixelated characters. This is exactly why I play video games in the first place. <_<

i think if you actually read through the arguments, you will find its not about ideals at all. Its about game.immersion.

Game immersion governed by what you deem to be apppropiate for bisexual characters? Hence, a belief constructed by your current reality? Sorry. Doesn't exist when we're talking about fiction.

[slimgrin]

I'll bet my left nut every romancable character is bisexual.

[Vandicus]

FumikoM wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

FumikoM wrote...

The characters you could romance in DA2 was more pansexual then anything else. It was your personality they liked and then fell in love with, not your body. They did not care what you had between your legs.

It actually makes more sense if most of them are bi/pansexual, rather then straight or lesbian/gay. It's only humans who think this way since we think what exist now is "natural", while in nature a lot of animals are not straight or lesbian/gay, they are bisexual. Well okay, animals don't care for sexuality, they just have sex and reproduce...

A. people can love each other without banging each other (surprising right?)
B. really /facepalm at what you said about straight/lesbian/gay/bisexual/pansexual people being a result of upbringing. Just wow. No, gay people were not raised to be gay. Trying to raise someone gay doesn't work(its been tried before after an unfortunate incident involving circumcision).
C. Animals can be straight/gay/bi/whatever. In general they are straight, much like how humans are generally straight. Its really just an evolution/carrying on the species thing.

Learn to read. There is nothing about upbringing in my post. As a LGBTQ person myself your post is just insulting.The point is that what people see as "natural" is something nature does not give a damn about. And no, animals are not in general straight, animals don't think that way at all. It's humans who love to categorize. Like you do.

Nice of you to pull the "I am offended card." Seriously people these days. 

"
It actually makes more sense if most of them are bi/pansexual, rather then straight or lesbian/gay. It's only humans who think this way since we think what exist now is "natural", while in nature a lot of animals are not straight or lesbian/gay, they are bisexual. Well okay, animals don't care for sexuality, they just have sex and reproduce... "

Your statement here clearly assumes that sexual preference is cultural, aka learned. Its not.

[syllogi]

darfurnub wrote...

DA3 should not be a fantasy dating game where your character can romance anybody. It should be a strong role playing game in which all characters have their own distinct identity, whether that be a bisexual, pansexual, gay, straight, polyamorous, asexual, queer, or other sexual identity. A character should be a unique person, not a love doll for anybody to have.

I don't feel like any of the DA2 love interests came off as love dolls.  Fenris and Isabela, in particular, actually kind of make the player work to fully romance through Act 3, even if you can get to the first romance scene without much trouble.  Like Zevran in DA:O, I found their romances rewarding because they were complex.

I would love to see a wide variety of sexual orientations and even gender identities represented, if the writers integrate them into the game in a way that doesn't feel tacked on.  I'd even love to see party members have their own relationships that don't involve the player character, and if that means a same sex relationship for them, that's great.  But when it comes to the romances for the player character, I want choices.  I don't want to be relegated to a "light" romance with a character who might be well written, but whose romance feels rushed and perhaps even gratuitous.  And I don't want to feel like I might as well romance the only f/f option they give me, just because she's there.  In that case, I'd rather be friends with the character.

Again, until there are tons of choices for everyone, it makes sense to give everyone choices.  And if someone says the characters feel flat or lesser *only* because they are available for romance to everyone, that's a shame, but it's not the fault of the writers.

[darfurnub]

slimgrin wrote...

I'll bet my left nut every romancable character is bisexual.

It would just be nice if there was at least 1 gay, 1 lesbian, 1 straight, rest bisexual for some character diversity. 

I would still buy the game and enjoy the heck out of it with a full bisexual cast, but it would be a step in the right direction to include characters of differing orientations. 

[Emzamination]

Rawgrim wrote...

well, in my case, I find the thought of having sex with another man repulsive, and consider it the ultimate turn off. I guess that means I am 100 percent straight. i am just wired that way. This doesn`t mean I have anything at all against gay people, though.

[goofyomnivore]

nerdage wrote...

Frankly, I'd prefer they keep all the romances open for either gender and limit them by something that's actually interesting from a roleplaying perspective, like allegiance or morality.

Example:

NPC: "Sorry, I can't love someone who supports the templars."
They're questioning your values, maybe changing your perspective and influencing your decision making. Interesting stuff to RP with.

NPC: "Sorry, don't like guys."
"Well I'm glad we got that sorted... Let's move on, shall we?" I've learnt nothing about them, they've not made me think, and the story/experience has gained exactly nothing.

This would be ideal and what I would want as well.

[The Hierophant]

slimgrin wrote...

I'll bet my left nut every romancable character is bisexual.

Never bet on your testes or you'll end up a eunich someday!

[Sylvanpyxie]

Frankly, I'd prefer they keep all the romances open for either gender and limit them by something that's actually interesting from a roleplaying perspective, like allegiance or morality.

Hard to believe there's actually sense in this thread somewhere, and it's been lost in the waves of needless arguments.

[goose2989]

MidKnight-Fury wrote...

I Agree it should be like the mass effect romances where there is a select few Gay/Bi/Lesbian romances our else the romance doesn't seem sincere

It makes no sense that every character is bisexual. Is everyone here on the BioWare forums bisexual? No! To make a character believable, he or she needs to have boundaries on what they will do. Each character should be able to say "no" to the player in certain situations; having a romantic relationship with any character with any player is just silly.

BioWare does understand this. While the four characters that shipped with DAII were available to either Hawke, you'll notice Sebastian isn't interested in a male Hawke. Why? Because it doesn't go along with that character. Following Mass Effect's lead in the romance category would be a wise move for DAIII. 

[darfurnub]

strive wrote...

nerdage wrote...

Frankly, I'd prefer they keep all the romances open for either gender and limit them by something that's actually interesting from a roleplaying perspective, like allegiance or morality.

Example:

NPC: "Sorry, I can't love someone who supports the templars."
They're questioning your values, maybe changing your perspective and influencing your decision making. Interesting stuff to RP with.

NPC: "Sorry, don't like guys."
"Well I'm glad we got that sorted... Let's move on, shall we?" I've learnt nothing about them, they've not made me think, and the story/experience has gained exactly nothing.

This would be ideal and what I would want as well.

This is actually a really good idea. 

[Rawgrim]

Eternal Dust wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Eternal Dust wrote...

Oh boy. I do love how we try to impose the ideals of our contemporary society onto a fictional world and pixelated characters. This is exactly why I play video games in the first place. <_<

i think if you actually read through the arguments, you will find its not about ideals at all. Its about game.immersion.

Game immersion governed by what you deem to be apppropiate for bisexual characters? Hence, a belief constructed by your current reality? Sorry. Doesn't exist when we're talking about fiction.

Ok. So if smurfs armed with laser rifles suddenly attack and conquer Orlais in DA3, it would be ok? Since its fiction. everything is ok.  Gravity is also a bellief (still just a theory actually) from our world. That means in DA nobody should assume it excists.


People being bisexual is not the issue. Its the fact that when all the love interests are bi, it breaks immersion.