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[daecath]

Xenharmonic wrote...

daecath wrote...

Xenharmonic wrote...

daecath wrote...

"Masculinity" and "femininity" are simply societal imposed stereotypes. Seriously, how stupid do you have to be to believe that with over a hundred billion nerve cells in the brain, dozens of neurochemicals, and 46 chromosomes with over 6 billion base pairs in our DNA, that the entire spectrum of humanity can be shoved into one of two boxes.

Don't worry about "masculinity" or "femininity", just be yourself. The world would be a lot happier place if everyone did that.

Masculinity and Femininity are the natural characteristics of males and females respectively.

Neither gender should be ashamed of these natural qualities.

You're half right. No one should be ashamed of their natural qualities. People are much much more complex than the configuration of one chromosome. Saying that there's such a thing as a behavioral or personality trait that is based entirely on a physical characteristic like what is between a person's legs is just as backwards, just as caveman thinking as saying that there's such a thing as a behavioral or personality trait that is based entirely on a physical characteristic like the color of a person's skin or their hair or their ethnic background. And yes, there are still some that believe that, who think that just because you look a certain way, you must be a certain type of person. Most of us however have evolved past that, and see that type of thinking for the sheer stupidity that it is. Yet somehow, gender stereotyping, which is exactly the same thing as stereotyping by race or any other physical characteristic, is still prevelent and widely accepted.

Hold on, the existence of stereotypes isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Understanding that an individual belonging to a group is likely to behave a certain way (women, men, people from different countries etc) can be helpful.

Let me give you a concrete example. Let's say you have to choose a squadmake to undertake a dangerous mission with. You can either choose a random man, or a random woman. Which would you pick?

Let me get this straight. I'm about to undertake an extremely dangerous mission, and you want me to trust my life to a random stranger with absolutely no knowledge of them whatsoever? I might as well shoot myself in the head right there, because that's stupid. You don't pick someone for a task based on their looks, especially if it's life or death. You ask them "hey, either of you know how to shoot a gun, either of you know anything about hand to hand combat," etc.

My brother is 6'3", weighs 200+, and looks like he could break you in half with a sideways glance. My sister is about 5'6", weighs probably a buck 20 in a heavy rainstorm, and looks like she'd snap in half if you look at her funny. I would pick my sister in a fight over my brother any day of the week and twice on Sunday. He's a teddy bear, she's a mountain lion. Yet looking at them, you would assume the opposite. And you'd be an idiot for doing so.

Yes, if you are ever in a situation where you need to make an instantaneous decision based on almost no information, you're going to have to rely on past experience and play the odds (which usually results in stereotyping). But how often are you in that kind of situation? Relying on and perpetuating stereotypes, even in those situations, is fundamentally detrimental. It could lead you to overlook crucial information simply because you're not open to seeing it. For instance, in the scenario you present, if you assume that the man is the better option because he's a man, and thus more capable of physicality and violence, then you would miss more subtle clues, like the fact that the man is wearing $200 loafers, and the woman is wearing army boots.

[Massa FX]

This should move to off topic.

I kinda understand the OP. Playing femshep makes me feel proud to be a strong woman, unafraid to do anything. She's a good example of how strong women can be.

Thanks for that Bioware's! Femshep rocks!

[Xenharmonic]

I think i'll re-post to hilight the fact you quoted me out of context.

Xenharmonic wrote...
Hold on, the existence of stereotypes isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Understanding that an individual belonging to a group is likely to behave a certain way (women, men, people from different countries etc) can be useful.

Let me give you a concrete example. Let's say you have to choose a squadmake to undertake a dangerous mission with. You can either choose a random man, or a random woman. Which would you pick?

Conversely, if I had two friends, one named james who was an accountant, and one named jane who was an accomplished police officer, I'd obviously pick jane, and I certainly wouldn't disapprove of her choosing that career.
That would be bigotry, would it not?

Please respond i'm really interested in what you have to say

Modifié par Xenharmonic, 20 septembre 2012 - 10:09 .

[AllegedVixEo]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

No, I'm not gay either. Why woun't you answer the qustion? 
What you posted was racist.
And you are most definitely racist and sexist. Come on man, there is nothing worst then a racist who is scared to own up to what they are. I have way more respect for a Klan member who owns who he is then a pansy who won't. Own it or stop talking.
 

Dr James Watson co-discoverer of the DNA double helix and Nobel prize winner says blacks are less intelligent than whites and is pessimistic about the future of Africa because their IQ levels are not on par with the west. Is he a klansman now too?

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fury-at-dna-pioneers-theory-africans-are-less-intelligent-than-westerners-394898.html

Binary,

To answer your question...  This guy is probably racist.  He's obviously incredibly intelligent, but even smart people can fall victim to personal bias and stereotyping.  Look at the facts, he's 79 years old.  He grew up in a very different time, and throughout his entire career he has devoted time to trying to find superiority amongst gender and race...  That sounds like someone who has something to prove...  Sounds a little "Mein Kampf" if you ask me...

The truth about "facts" derived from studies, from someone who has participated in research and is very well versed on the subject, is that you can create a study to prove anything you want.  The irony is that because people are so diverse, and we do not have any two people who are exactly the same in every way (not even twins), there are too many uncontrolled variables in studies that use people as subjects to render any actual "true" results.  When we choose to accept the results of a study of this nature, we are choosing to accept that the person conducting the study did everything they could to diminish the variables in the sample (and even still that's not 100%).  

I am guessing that this guy would have been among the many researchers willing to overlook variables in the sample, or who knows... perhaps even manipulate them, to get the outcome he had been searching for throughout his entire career. 

[AllegedVixEo]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Also, if white people are the most intelligent people on the Earth. I would like for him to explain Nubia, The Aztecs and the many non western powerful civilizations.

He never said white people were the most intelligent people on Earth just that IQ varies by region, race, and person.

Those civilizations you cited never made it past bronze era technology and have contributed little to nothing to the world.

And I think someone already said this, but many would agree that IQ testing is a Western standard and cannot be applied to other people from other cultures.  It also depends on what tests he used.  The Binet IQ test which is a pretty standard application, even today, is most certainly a bias test, while some may argue the WISC-R is less so.

The whole issue of the validity of standardized testing has recently been questioned in the news with the Chicago Teachers Strike.  This is not new.

[AllegedVixEo]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Also, if white people are the most intelligent people on the Earth. I would like for him to explain Nubia, The Aztecs and the many non western powerful civilizations.

He never said white people were the most intelligent people on Earth just that IQ varies by region, race, and person.

Those civilizations you cited never made past bronze era technology and have contributed little to nothing to the world.

Let's not for get Egypt had black people too. What about Arabic people?

Arabs have produced advance civilizations in the past but are no longer capable of doing so. This is where culture matters.

Oh Boy... the generalizations!  Here goes... As someone who has lived a third of her life in the Middle East, has also been to Egypt twice, Cypress, India and various European societies like Scotland and England, as well as grown up all over the squall of US suburbs, I can tell you that this statement is factually untrue, Binary.

There are some very, very advanced civilizations, very modern civilizations in Jordan, Saudi Arabia and all over the Middle East.  Just because they are culturally different in their own right, does not mean that they are not "advanced" as a society.  I've never seen beautiful marble mansions (more like castles) with minorets and towers and lots of far reaching technology in any other part of the world.

I went to 5th/6th grade at an international school in Saudi Arabia in 1995, and they had us taking digital pictures and video and turning it into computer animation, before most people in America even knew what a digital camera looked like, or that you could record video that wasn't on VHS.   I am not going to sit here and defend some of the things in portions of the middle east that I think are really backwards, because I definitely experienced that too.  I am going to say that you have been shown time and time again throughout this thread that when you make generalizations about a culture, they fall flat.  

There is a distinction between stating a fact like for example "men have more muscle mass throughout their bodies than women", and an assumption like "all men are stronger than all women".  You can't seem to make that distinction, and it makes me feel kind of bad...

Modifié par AllegedVixEo, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[Oransel]

Western Civilisation is under attack of left-wing social-democracy, "political correctness" morality. There is nothing wrong with feminism, women are not worse than men and should have the same rights. Same with blacks, gays, muslims and any other minority. However, leftards and adepts of radical feminism and multi culti followers have perversed the way of the society. They believe that women are better than men, that blacks are better than whites, that muslims have more rights than christians. I hate those hippies. No, I hate them with a passion. I hate when butch lesbians start telling me that women should be put in government just because they are women. Meritocracy is non-existent for them.

Actually, white middle-aged christian men are the most abused part of the society in the western world. God, I hate left-wing.

[AllegedVixEo]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

If you are right, then every white person should have a higher IQ then every black person. In turn higher GPA's and more education. Again, how much education do you and the members of your family have? 

White IQ on average is higher than black IQ. It doesn't mean there aren't exceptions but we're talking averages.

The black regions of Africa are full of squalor, violence, misery, and hopelessness, much like the black ghettos in the west.

In the west of what? It wasn't like that 50 years ago. My grandfather was born in 1917 and lived to see the down fall of his race, believe me it hasn't alway been like that. Also you are aware that white people he ghettos too. Really mods? How is this not locked yet? 

Umm Detroit? Watts? East Oakland? Any area with a lot of black people. That's why white flight occurs wherever black people move in at in droves. Even smart and successful black people want to avoid other blacks. They just destroy but I agree things weren't always bad. In the past the black community had leadership. Now they all move out to white suburbs.

It is not always the west sides but alright. Um, I live near Flint, MI and can I just say there are some very rough white areas. It is a cultural thing, it is not in our DNA. The same with latinos it has a lot to do with the media in the last 50 years imo. BET dosn't help. 

It's not just a "cultural thing" nor is it the fault of any race.. The projects, the ghetto, whatever you want to call it, are the result of exactly Binary is trying to counter in her arguments, social posturing.  

People who have no experience with poverty creating laws and rules for the impoverished.  This occurs on both the "left" and the "right".  Poorly structured social programs (welfare, for one) that are supposed to "help" but need to be reformed into something that is actually helpful, rather than providing just enough for a person to stay impoverished their entire life with little hope of getting an education, because they can't afford it, can't afford transportation to school or to a job, can barely afford to keep the electric bill paid and still have money for groceries.  

These kinds of circumstances, combined with the external environmental factors in the projects that have formed over years and years of generational poverty, make it incredibly difficult to achieve a better life for onesself.  It's also a fact that most people in the US remain at the social status they are born throughout their entire lives.  This is true for people in poverty, just as it is true for middle class and the rich.  People in poverty just have additional disadvantages that make it even harder to increase social status than it is for the rest of us, yet so many people look down on them like they are stupid and lazy.

Binary has said she believes social workers are useless, but a program that filters government money into a plan for social change rather than sustainability, would require a system of welfare reform that includes interaction with therapeutic psychologists and career counselors, perhaps even job placement assistance.  Sadly, as a country we are not ready to create a program that activates social change in this manner.  It's much easier to continue to filter money into programs like welfare and creating more section 8 housing, then people like Binary can complain about other races being stupid and lazy, while simultaneously feeling validated by a system of their own making.  

[Xilizhra]

There's no such thing as "masculinity" or "femininity," at least nothing that's inherent. All that you've done is gain some sort of satisfaction in playing to cultural stereotypes, for whatever reason. Enjoy.

Also, Maleshep's voice acting is terrible.

[RaenImrahl]

We've moved well past discussing the game. Locked.