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Mass Effect helped me realise the value of masculinity.


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#76
Binary_Helix 1

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Bekkael wrote...


Of course not. We appreciate the way of life that we do because of the hard work of the men and women who went before us. Women of the past were only dependent on men due to the societal rules which placed men in charge and relegated women to the role of breeder and child-raiser. I'm sure if women were seen to be equal human beings to men throughout history (allowed to own property, inherit, run businesses etc.) things would have been vastly different.


Women didn't work because back then work didn't consist of pushing papers in a nice air conditioned office.

That didn't mean there weren't vitally important tasks they had to manage. Child bearing and motherhood for example.




Bekkael wrote...Women faced the pressure of having nothing to recommend them beyond their vaginas and their ability to provide children. Women reproduced because they had to, and they often had no choice as to who they would reproduce WITH. I daresay there were fewer men reproducing because they actually had a choice in the matter.


No society ever lets women fail. If most of the men die that's okay. While women are coddled because with them a tribe, a city, or a nation, can repopulate itself within a generation. This idea that women were breeders therefore had it bad is a myth. Most males are expendable that's why less than half ever reproduced. It's a lie that most males ever had it great.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:50 .


#77
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Hudathan wrote...

Oh and men aren't losing sh*t stop being paranoid.


Male labor force partcipation and college graduation is at an all time low. Guys are dropping out of life in droves.

Like I said before even guys don't give a **** about other guys because men are expendable. They always have been.

#78
billy the squid

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

Oh and men aren't losing sh*t stop being paranoid.


Male labor force partcipation and college graduation is at an all time low. Guys are dropping out of life in droves.

Like I said before even guys don't give a **** about other guys because men are expendable. They always have been.



Nothing to do with the fact that a large portion of the labour force is male and the global economic downturn has caused a myriad of problems. A disingenuous portrayal of the socio economics of the situation at best. When in general women are a smaller percentage in most labour forces. Thus more men will drop out due to the simple maths of the situation. College depends entirely on the courses and job potential. Why saddle yourself with debt and enter an already overburdened job market.

Modifié par billy the squid, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:53 .


#79
GreyLycanTrope

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This has devolved into a feminist bashing quite fast, I'll just take view my point be going than *leaves*

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:55 .


#80
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billy the squid wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

Oh and men aren't losing sh*t stop being paranoid.


Male labor force partcipation and college graduation is at an all time low. Guys are dropping out of life in droves.

Like I said before even guys don't give a **** about other guys because men are expendable. They always have been.



Nothing to do with the fact that a large portion of the labour force is male and the global economic downturn has caused a myriad of problems. A disingenuous portrayal of the socio economics of the situation at best. When in general women are a smaller percentage in most labour forces. Thus more men will drop out due to the simple maths of the situation. College depends entirely on the courses and job potential. Why saddle yourself with debt and enter an already overburdened job market.


Actually no. While men suffer female success and prosperity is at an all time high.  Women entering the workforce also drove down wages in most countries and made jobs especially entry levels one a lot more competitive. In other words women compete for jobs but don't create any. Beyond cosmetics there are few if any major female entrepreneurs.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:58 .


#81
shepskisaac

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Actually no. While men suffer female success and prosperity is at an all time high.

Which is why women still earn less in the same jobs as men? And what is this male suffering? Dude, you're getting juist ridiculous at this point

#82
Binary_Helix 1

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Women earn less money than men at the same job? Really? Can you please let me in on that lucrative class action lawsuit.

When women earn less money relative to men it's because they choose less demanding careers. Nobody is out to get them.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:05 .


#83
eddieoctane

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My problem with feminism stems from the tendency of some feminists to consider women who want to be stay at home moms as a sign of weakness. I feel bad for how their kids turn out.

I have no problem with women getting equal pay for equal work with equal experience. But I do get annoyed when women act like anything a man can do they can do better. Men can't carry children, and women aren't as strong as men. Biology is what it is, and embracing the gifts you're given, rather than demanding more, is what's liberating. Half the time, it seems like feminists only make matters worse.

Modifié par eddieoctane, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:20 .


#84
billy the squid

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

Oh and men aren't losing sh*t stop being paranoid.


Male labor force partcipation and college graduation is at an all time low. Guys are dropping out of life in droves.

Like I said before even guys don't give a **** about other guys because men are expendable. They always have been.



Nothing to do with the fact that a large portion of the labour force is male and the global economic downturn has caused a myriad of problems. A disingenuous portrayal of the socio economics of the situation at best. When in general women are a smaller percentage in most labour forces. Thus more men will drop out due to the simple maths of the situation. College depends entirely on the courses and job potential. Why saddle yourself with debt and enter an already overburdened job market.


Actually no. While men suffer female success and prosperity is at an all time high.  Women entering the workforce also drove down wages in most countries and made jobs especially entry levels one a lot more competitive. In other words women compete for jobs but don't create any. Beyond cosmetics there are few if any major female entrepreneurs.




Yeah, that's macro economics. Supply and demand. It happens when populations expand, this has been happening since the 70's and 80's with an increasing move of women into the workforce as well as the baby boom population of that period actually being larger than out own population of young employees in their 20's and 30's

Well considering that unless you are an entreprenuer you don't create jobs either. I don't see how gender has anything to do with that. Again.

Really female success? Get back to me when you studied with Barristers which are almost all men, or the banking sector, or the legal sector, or the financial services sector, or the engenieering sector, or the number of CEOs or the political sphere all of which are dominated by men. We haven't had it so bad have we. Biatchy overbearing feminists should be told to keep their mouth shut. Trying to palm of the current socio economic collapse, oversubscribed employment pool and stagnation of economies as proof of a feminist agenda is dumb.

Paticularly when the proportion of men in the work force is already significantly higher. Of course more me are going to lose their jobs. There's more of us in the first place. Simple arithmatic should lead you to that conclusion.

Modifié par billy the squid, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:14 .


#85
DDG4005

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I can see this thread being locked soon.

#86
AllegedVixEo

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Xenharmonic wrote...

Esoretal wrote...

Feminist ideals aren't against masculinity. They're against the concept of femininity as a weakness. There's nothing wrong with masculinity.

The resentment of masculinity is tied to the idea that in order for something to be masculine, it has to reject the feminine. You don't have to support one while rejecting the other. Both are something to be celebrated, for their own qualities, and they can (and often do) both exist in the same person.

I'm glad that ME helped you appreciate masculinity more, though. I know that FemShep had a similar inspiring effect on me. She's both masculine and feminine, and does it well!


Some feminists certainly take things too far though.

I totally agree that the natural characteristics of women are beautiful and to be celebrated.

Finally, no offense to female Shepard fans, but Mark Meer is WAY better than Jennifer Hale.


I don't think you know the first thing about feminism, and the FemShep voice acting is like better x 1000.  The end.

#87
billy the squid

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Women earn less money than men at the same job? Really? Can you please let me in on that lucrative class action lawsuit.

When women earn less money relative to men it's because they choose less demanding careers. Nobody is out to get them.


Facepalm

No. because generally men are more assertive, pushy and demanding when it comes to pay so get better negotiated salaries. Let's face it may of us in the legal and business sector are jerks Edit: including me. Factor in maternity leave and paid time off if they have kids. Yeah your employer won't promote you to the same degree. It's not sexism it's because you took time off, which cost your employer.

Please do not make me school you in employment law. It's very late and I really don't want to dig out my statute book and qoute legislation to you.

Modifié par billy the squid, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:24 .


#88
Binary_Helix 1

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billy the squid wrote...

Really female success, get back to me when you studied with Barristers which are almost all men, or the banking sector, or the legal sector, or the financial services sector, or the engenieering sector, or the number of CEOs or the political sphere all of which are dominated by men. We haven't had it so bad have we. Biatchy overbearing feminists should be told to keep their mouth shut. Trying to palm of the current socio economic collapse, oversubscribed employment pool and stagnation of economies as proof of a feminist agenda is dumb.


This is only applicable to the highest status men. Joe Average with no connections, wealth, or elite education, can't apply.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:16 .


#89
billy the squid

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Really female success, get back to me when you studied with Barristers which are almost all men, or the banking sector, or the legal sector, or the financial services sector, or the engenieering sector, or the number of CEOs or the political sphere all of which are dominated by men. We haven't had it so bad have we. Biatchy overbearing feminists should be told to keep their mouth shut. Trying to palm of the current socio economic collapse, oversubscribed employment pool and stagnation of economies as proof of a feminist agenda is dumb.


This is only applicable to the highest status men. Joe Average with no connections, wealth, or elite education, can't apply.


So plumbers, electricians, mechanics, carpenters, salesmen, factory workers are women predominantly? Wow. I've been living in the wrong country. Allof them here are men.

And I wouldn't call a degree an elite education, maybe what you studied or where you went, perhaps. But considering all of the jobs those sectors do not pay the overinflated salaries you think of. And are still dominated by men. It's kind of a moot point.

Now are there a lot of women in some job markets, hell yes, more than men in paticular areas of employment. In total ha, no.

Modifié par billy the squid, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:22 .


#90
Bekkael

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Bekkael wrote...


Of course not. We appreciate the way of life that we do because of the hard work of the men and women who went before us. Women of the past were only dependent on men due to the societal rules which placed men in charge and relegated women to the role of breeder and child-raiser. I'm sure if women were seen to be equal human beings to men throughout history (allowed to own property, inherit, run businesses etc.) things would have been vastly different.


Women didn't work because back then work didn't consist of pushing papers in a nice air conditioned office.

That didn't mean there weren't vitally important tasks they had to manage. Child bearing and motherhood for example.


Let me clarify: I meant women didn't work for wages, or in the rare cases where they did, that money would belong to the male head of the family. I am a wife and mother, and I certainly know how much work domestic tasks involve. Nobody pays me to have children and raise a family, it was my choice to follow that path. In ages past, that was the only option for most women. Today, women enjoy the freedom to have children if they wish to, or to never reproduce at all. I think that is a wonderful thing. :)



No society ever lets women fail. If most of the men die that's okay. While women are coddled because with them a tribe, a city, or a nation, can repopulate itself within a generation. This idea that women were breeders therefore had it bad is a myth. Most males are expendable that's why less than half ever reproduced. It's a lie that most males ever had it great.


It takes two to tango. I never claimed males "ever had it great", or that all women "had it bad". There were fairly narrow roles occupied by both men and women, but of the two, I hope you will allow that women had less say over their futures than men had over theirs. Also, pregnancy and childbirth is very painful, and even in modern times it can be fatal for the woman. Can you say that men of ages past risked their very lives just by getting married and having sex? That was a woman's reality.

Everyone has their challenges. ^_^

It's very sad to me that people battle over gender roles, masculinity versus femininity etc. We are all human beings, regardless of our genitals or sexual preferences, and we are all unique and valuable.

Modifié par Bekkael, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:24 .


#91
Binary_Helix 1

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billy the squid wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Women earn less money than men at the same job? Really? Can you please let me in on that lucrative class action lawsuit.

When women earn less money relative to men it's because they choose less demanding careers. Nobody is out to get them.


Facepalm

No. because generally men are more assertive, pushy and demanding when it comes to pay so get better negotiated salaries. Let's face it may of us in the legal and business sector are jerks. Factor in maternity leave and paid time off if they have kids. Yeah your employer won't promote you to the same degree. It's not sexism it's because you took time off, which cost your employer.

Please do not make me school you in employment law. It's very late and I really don't want to dig out my statute book and qoute legislation to you.


In other words men are better at what they do and their pay scale and promotions reflect that?

It's not my fault women bought into the idea that they can have it all (career and family). Life is about priorities.

#92
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I wanted Shep to be all girly like me tbh.

#93
Binary_Helix 1

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billy the squid wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Really female success, get back to me when you studied with Barristers which are almost all men, or the banking sector, or the legal sector, or the financial services sector, or the engenieering sector, or the number of CEOs or the political sphere all of which are dominated by men. We haven't had it so bad have we. Biatchy overbearing feminists should be told to keep their mouth shut. Trying to palm of the current socio economic collapse, oversubscribed employment pool and stagnation of economies as proof of a feminist agenda is dumb.


This is only applicable to the highest status men. Joe Average with no connections, wealth, or elite education, can't apply.


So plumbers, electricians, mechanics, carpenters, salesmen, factory workers are women predominantly? Wow. I've been living in the wrong country. Allof them here are men.

And I wouldn't call a degree an elite education, maybe what you studied or where you went, perhaps. But considering all of the jobs those sectors do not pay the overinflated salaries you think of. And are still dominated by men. It's kind of a moot point.

Now are there a lot of women in some job markets, hell yes, more than men in paticular areas of employment. In total ha, no.



You were talking about white collar jobs but most of the US economy is dominated by retail and services. Men do not always outnumber women in the "new economy". Moreover BIGLAW and investment banking two sectors you alluded to are dominated by people from ivy league schools. There are barriers to entry for a lot of careers nowadays. It's a new world.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:30 .


#94
billy the squid

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Women earn less money than men at the same job? Really? Can you please let me in on that lucrative class action lawsuit.

When women earn less money relative to men it's because they choose less demanding careers. Nobody is out to get them.


Facepalm

No. because generally men are more assertive, pushy and demanding when it comes to pay so get better negotiated salaries. Let's face it may of us in the legal and business sector are jerks. Factor in maternity leave and paid time off if they have kids. Yeah your employer won't promote you to the same degree. It's not sexism it's because you took time off, which cost your employer.

Please do not make me school you in employment law. It's very late and I really don't want to dig out my statute book and qoute legislation to you.


In other words men are better at what they do and their pay scale and promotions reflect that?

It's not my fault women bought into the idea that they can have it all (career and family). Life is about priorities.


Not necessarily better.

But are you going to promote someone or increase tha salary of someone who has taken months off, or will in the future and you have to pick up the slack as the employer? No. And woman has said they should have it all. It's a,life choice, some very successful wome do give up having children, some don't want them and some only take the minimum maternity leave before getting back to work. And some of them are very successful career ladies, so they should be, if they want that.

Some don't, but they want to work and have a work life balance. They are going to have to face the fact that high pressure employers are not going to look on this as a benefit to the company, and I think that is at least understood.

The ultra feminists who may try and palm this off as sexist male agenda are nuts anyway and you can see them a mile off.

#95
SubAstris

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Cool story... now where's your point?

#96
AllegedVixEo

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Bekkael wrote...


Of course not. We appreciate the way of life that we do because of the hard work of the men and women who went before us. Women of the past were only dependent on men due to the societal rules which placed men in charge and relegated women to the role of breeder and child-raiser. I'm sure if women were seen to be equal human beings to men throughout history (allowed to own property, inherit, run businesses etc.) things would have been vastly different.


Women didn't work because back then work didn't consist of pushing papers in a nice air conditioned office.

That didn't mean there weren't vitally important tasks they had to manage. Child bearing and motherhood for example.




Bekkael wrote...Women faced the pressure of having nothing to recommend them beyond their vaginas and their ability to provide children. Women reproduced because they had to, and they often had no choice as to who they would reproduce WITH. I daresay there were fewer men reproducing because they actually had a choice in the matter.


No society ever lets women fail. If most of the men die that's okay. While women are coddled because with them a tribe, a city, or a nation, can repopulate itself within a generation. This idea that women were breeders therefore had it bad is a myth. Most males are expendable that's why less than half ever reproduced. It's a lie that most males ever had it great.




*Ahem* Let me preface by saying "bad" is subjective.  Some societies definitely have it worse than others and you can't compare apples to oranges.  

But here in America (where I live)...

Women have it "bad" when they get paid, on average, 7% less than men for doing the same darn job.  So if  a woman wants to support her house husband and physically evacuated spawn then she has to work twice as hard to get to where she would be if they were born with different genitals.

Women have it "bad" when they have legislatures who think, for some reason, it is okay to make decisions about what medical procedures they can and cannot undergo, and when laws like the lovingly nicknamed "Let Women Die" Law give rise to social injustice.

Women have it "real bad" when people start trying to qualify rape, what it is and what it isn't.

Women have it "bad" when people still subscribe to the belief that "woman work" involves being in a cushy office with air conditioning, and that a society that promotes that women exist at a quality of life that is sub-par to that of men is good because it isn't going to "let" women fail completely.  I

Women have it "bad" when they have to work all day, and then come home and pull second shift at home because society tells them they are supposed to be, by gender, the nurturer and the housekeeper.

Women have it "bad" when people think it's okay to throw around terms, that I won't say on this forum but imply "sexually promiscuous", just because someone believes in using birth control, and when they can't get healthcare coverage for said contraceptives.

There is a whole lot of BS out there, but you'd be wise to wake up and smell the Clinque Happy because changes are coming, and women aren't just complaining about things.  There are real inequalities in our society, and in the microcasm of our little gaming community, as a girl gamer, I hear about it all the time, but in the big picture things could get much, much worse.

#97
Hudathan

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SOME women feel entitled, not all. And the ones who do can only do so because it's men who let them get away with it or condone it. If a woman is a gold digger, that's because there are men out there willing to pay for love. If a girl grows up being told to be non-assertive, then it's society which filled their heads with so many ideas. We're all parts of the big picture, no point singling out anyone specific and making it all about them. It's a complicate issue and there are no easy answers. It's certainly not as black and white as us-vs-them or male-vs-female.

#98
Eterna

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...


Still looking like an idiot. 


How about you actually try and refute something or are you afraid I'll mentally squash you?


From what I've seen of you in this thread? No, being mentally squashed by you is the least of my concerns. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:43 .


#99
Straw Nihilist

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The value of masculinity:

Posted Image

That boulder never stood a chance!

#100
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Beefy McBoulder Puncher strikes again.