397 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

AlanC9 wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
But that's kind of the whole point of IT. The game is lying to you. Even the achievements and epilogue slides.

I always kind of thought the kid was lying to Shepard, since he insinuates that Shepard will die with the destroy option, since he himself is part synthetic, but as we've seen, he/she doesn't die.  Makes me wonder if the Geth and EDI really die too with that choice.

EDI's on the memorial wall. She's dead, Jim.

As for the geth -- if the geth are still alive in the other endings they show up in the slides. They don't show in Destroy. 

That's probably why I save everyone and things and dont/wont pick destroy.. it won't work long term..it's avoiding the actual issue..?

[Jadebaby]

Wayning_Star wrote...

BUT, that doesn't mean that the Geth are an "all inclusive" example. Besides our version of events don't include all aspects of the situation when considering organics vs synthetics. The 'base' problems with it is the fact that they will compete if estranged. Apparently, organics need synthetics to evolve as well, require them to exist to serve their purposes...see the thread there?

If we have technology at the level in the MEU, we're stuck with either joining them or rejecting their presence completely. That's the trap we've laid as organics DEPENDENT on technology. Thats the idea of 'inevitability.

From organic to cyborg to synthesis...evolution of orgasyntha.  Two forces meeting in the middle?

The Leviathan are organic They are an apex race and, quite dangerous...probably toxic to all other lifeforms. The ultimate tool makers.

Bigger threat than even the most tyrannical synthetic beings... Synthesis would put quite a kink in their Apex raceness...as well.

No, Organics rely on technology, not synthetics specifically. There are many different tools organics can use to substitute an AI. Hell the Citadel outlaws A.I's and they've done fine thus far, haven't they?

If the AI's wanted their entity treated equally, organics could replace existing A.I "tools" with simple V.I's.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Vox Draco wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

I am yet to hear any worthy argument from "sane persons" about how Synthesis is awful.

They amount to nothing more than a giant jump-to-conclusions mat, no logic/intellect.

Yeah, yeah, whatever, that discussion train had left the building long ago and crashed horribly, taking all logic and intelect with it. Go on, return to the topic. Synthesis is great and all fitting ending to the franchise. Yeah.totally...

cop-out rating: 2/10.

Lousy job, Malfoy.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I think tinfoil hats are the ultimate weapon against Leviathans.

[Skullheart]

It will be walters ending.

Synthesis, liara is the canon LI, and lots of blue babies.

[Code_R]

Synthesis smells

[Vox Draco]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
cop-out rating: 2/10.

Lousy job, Malfoy.

As if there isn't said and done everything about synthesis already. And again, not on topic, so I leave it here, and have you enjoy your triumph, greeny!

[Wayning_Star]

[quote]But I don't really care what they canonize, really.
[/quote]


all lies..[/quote]


sorry, I thought you said you didn't care what they canonize?

seemed strange to me is all.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Vox Draco wrote...


As if there isn't said and done everything about synthesis already. And again, not on topic, so I leave it here, and have you enjoy your triumph, greeny!

I'm aware of what's been "said and done about synthesis already" ... ******-poor arguments.

Again, it's all just one big jump-to-conclusions mat:

Reapers!
Headcanon!
Fan-Fic!
Lose a turn!
Harbinger!
Husk!
Cannibal!
Marauder!
Brute!
Ravager!
Swarmer!
Banshee!
Collectors!
Reapers!
Saren!
TIM!
Cerberus!
Moot!
Stagnation!
Metal parts!
Fleshy synthetics!
Overlord!
Legion!
Mordin!
Eugenics!
Hitler!
Na'zis!
Reapers!
Space Magic!
Themes!
Sex!
InDAHKtrinated!
Speculation!
Sci-fi!
Starjar!
Starchild!
Starkid!
Spacekid!
Spacechild!
Spacebaby!
Starbaby!
Starbrat!
Spacebrat!
Bratalyst!
Reaper King!
Reaper Overlord!
Did I mention Reapers???!

^ THAT is the argument against Synthesis.

Why it fails: a good argument = say, show, mean. The above list = say, and nothing more. Why? Because if you actually tackled this case-by-case, you'd quickly see that none of this crap actually shows or means anything worthwhile to refute Synthesis. The circumstances are so different they often aren't comparable items. That's why folks avoid trying to show/mean in their arguments and just resort to saying - when it comes down to it, they've got nothing.

Hence, I have heard no worthy argument against Synthesis.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:52 .

[Wayning_Star]

organics build tools to advance in their struggle with nature. Organics make sentient synthetic life forms to advance in their struggle with nature.

Nature demands they become their tools to advance in their struggle with nature.

As long as organics struggle with nature to advance themselves they will eventually become (more) that what they invent.

Either use it or put it away forever..

Signed: Mother Nature

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Wayning_Star wrote...

sorry, I thought you said you didn't care what they canonize?

seemed strange to me is all.

I don't.

For one, I don't need ME4 to validate my story. If Synthesis isn't canon, then it's just an alternate-universe ME to me. I can still play it.

Two, I feel it will basically be made irrelevant. The differences can be steamlined into one thing:

Reapers alive? Don't make mention of them. Either they're dead, of they're just not around.
Synthesis greenery? They invented tech that gets rid of it.
Geth? Rebuilt.

With that, you can make a MEU that is consistent with all three of R/G/B.

[AlanC9]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
Reapers alive? Don't make mention of them. Either they're dead, of they're just not around.
Synthesis greenery? They invented tech that gets rid of it.
Geth? Rebuilt.

With that, you can make a MEU that is consistent with all three of R/G/B.

Eww.

[Wayning_Star]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...


As if there isn't said and done everything about synthesis already. And again, not on topic, so I leave it here, and have you enjoy your triumph, greeny!

I'm aware of what's been "said and done about synthesis already" ... ******-poor arguments.

Again, it's all just one big jump-to-conclusions mat:

Reapers!
Headcanon!
Fan-Fic!
Lose a turn!
Harbinger!
Husk!
Cannibal!
Marauder!
Brute!
Ravager!
Swarmer!
Banshee!
Collectors!
Reapers!
Saren!
TIM!
Cerberus!
Moot!
Stagnation!
Metal parts!
Fleshy synthetics!
Overlord!
Legion!
Mordin!
Eugenics!
Hitler!
Na'zis!
Reapers!
Space Magic!
Themes!
Sex!
InDAHKtrinated!
Speculation!
Sci-fi!
Starjar!
Starchild!
Starkid!
Spacekid!
Spacechild!
Spacebaby!
Starbaby!
Starbrat!
Spacebrat!
Bratalyst!
Reaper King!
Reaper Overlord!
Did I mention Reapers???!

^ THAT is the argument against Synthesis.

Why it fails: a good argument = say, show, mean. The above list = say, and nothing more. Why? Because if you actually tackled this case-by-case, you'd quickly see that none of this crap actually shows or means anything worthwhile to refute Synthesis. The circumstances are so different they often aren't comparable items. That's why folks avoid trying to show/mean in their arguments and just resort to saying - when it comes down to it, they've got nothing.

Hence, I have heard no worthy argument against Synthesis.

the one about 'choices' for those who've no vested interest in the choice of synthesis(namely everything else in the universe besides condenders) being minimalized seems the best and most relative. Makes the decision(s) all "Apex Racey".

[Vox Draco]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
Hence, I have heard no worthy argument against Synthesis.

One last time, and I try to connect it to the topic: I look at synthesis not from scienctific points of view, only from what the story had come from. Synthesis is deeply connected to the Reaper thinking of blending machine and organics. If Shepard is going this route, it should have been options to have Shepard express that this route, like Saren, could possibly led somewhere good in the end.

But allI remeber about Shepard, the way I played her, was: No way, I want to stay human, thank you, Mr. Reaper. And all of a sudden, just after glow-boy shows up, Shepard can be all for this option, out of the blue. No proper set-up. At. All.

I do not mind synthesis being there as an option. But not if it supposedly leads to some creepy utopia. Reaper-Based utopia, and Shspard simply agrees in the last five minutes, without any back-up by story or character developement. The way they entered synthesis and Shepard's decision for such a vast, universal, drastic change beyond our wildest imagination or nightmares is just what upsets me the most. I do not buy that. I do not see Shepard buy that. Not the way the story about the Commander was told up to this point.

Even control has more credibility, as at least we have this topic covered by the TIM. But even here Shepard mostly opposes his believes, only to forget all of it in the end and take control over the whoel galaxy. No real proper foreshadowing. At least I fail to see it.

As many others have claimed: Synthesis might be a nice way to end a story, but not this one. Its the ending for another game, or for a Mass Effect told differently from the start. Which leads me back on topic to say: destroying reapers is canon for me. It was the one driving urge behind Shepard motives and most statements. She hardly adressed anyone saying: "Oh, maybe we should merge with the Reapers to end this war..." Just sayin'

And a very long list there. Makes my heart warm with nice nostalgia about past discussions...so much truth in that list *sigh* Thank you, it almost makes me feel a little better reading all that *sniff*

Modifié par Vox Draco, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:12 .

[Wayning_Star]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

sorry, I thought you said you didn't care what they canonize?

seemed strange to me is all.

I don't.

For one, I don't need ME4 to validate my story. If Synthesis isn't canon, then it's just an alternate-universe ME to me. I can still play it.

Two, I feel it will basically be made irrelevant. The differences can be steamlined into one thing:

Reapers alive? Don't make mention of them. Either they're dead, of they're just not around.
Synthesis greenery? They invented tech that gets rid of it.
Geth? Rebuilt.

With that, you can make a MEU that is consistent with all three of R/G/B.

Yeah, making a decision canon is kind of  "too real". Making synthesis canon is just plain reality as it's sent out from our oldest beginnings...

ME4 would be interesting to see what they'll think up next, what with all the fan input(once detoxified , they have about everywhere to go with it. But I doubt Shep will return in the flesh tho..but then..who knows.

But with me I think they need to pick one of the choices and go with it, it's only fair and a requisite of the game. I'm curious as to what that will be, or if they'll be able to modulate the circumstances enough to make it/any doable?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

... all you've really argued is that Synthesis doesn't fit in the story, not that it is a bad thing to choose. At least, not for reasons other than story-telling, which only matters if you care about that kind of thing.

Vox Draco wrote...

And a very long list there. Makes my heart warm with nice nostalgia about past discussions...so much truth in that list *sigh* Thank you, it almost makes me feel a little better reading all that *sniff*

Too bad it's a list is invalid arguments, not truth. If you "say" without "show" or "mean" then you have nothing.

Anyone who sees it as compelling evidence has no understanding of the concept.

[saracen16]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

With a new Mass Effect game announced to be in the works and the fact that I think all of the BSN are united under a "no prequels" banner.

Let us embrace a canon ending.

Let us embarce *the* canon ending.

The Refuse ending.

It is up to BioWare now whether they want it to be successful or not. Either way, I firmly believe this ending deserves it, for Shepard's speech alone.

"Say YES to a canon ending." Hmmm... how about NO?

Mass Effect never had a canon and God forbid your canon gets shoved down my throat.

[Wayning_Star]

Vox Draco wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...
Hence, I have heard no worthy argument against Synthesis.

One last time, and I try to connect it to the topic: I look at synthesis not from scienctific points of view, only from what the story had come from. Synthesis is deeply connected to the Reaper thinking of blending machine and organics. If Shepard is going this route, it should have been options to have Shepard express that this route, like Saren, could possibly led somewhere good in the end.

But allI remeber about Shepard, the way I played her, was: No way, I want to stay human, thank you, Mr. Reaper. And all of a sudden, just after glow-boy shows up, Shepard can be all for this option, out of the blue. No proper set-up. At. All.

I do not mind synthesis being there as an option. But not if it supposedly leads to some creepy utopia. Reaper-Based utopia, and Shspard simply agrees in the last five minutes, without any back-up by story or character developement. The way they entered synthesis and Shepard's decision for such a vast, universal, drastic change beyond our wildest imagination or nightmares is just what upsets me the most. I do not buy that. I do not see Shepard buy that. Not the way the story about the Commander was told up to this point.

Even control has more credibility, as at least we have this topic covered by the TIM. But even here Shepard mostly opposes his believes, only to forget all of it in the end and take control over the whoel galaxy. No real proper foreshadowing. At least I fail to see it.

As many others have claimed: Synthesis might be a nice way to end a story, but not this one. Its the ending for another game, or for a Mass Effect told differently from the start. Which leads me back on topic to say: destroying reapers is canon for me. It was the one driving urge behind Shepard motives and most statements. She hardly adressed anyone saying: "Oh, maybe we should merge with the Reapers to end this war..." Just sayin'

And a very long list there. Makes my heart warm with nice nostalgia about past discussions...so much truth in that list *sigh* Thank you, it almost makes me feel a little better reading all that *sniff*

its all to do about US, not reapers, they're just a byproduct of our/organic being. Leviathan is just another example of what other organics strive to accomplish, if not exactly the same way... but whos to say that humanity won't cop that same attitude if'n when they 'reach (such) an apex' in their societal ambition?

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:33 .

[Wayning_Star]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

As much as I love Mass Effect, I'd rather be lobotomized than play ME4 with a canon Synthesis ending.

gosh, don't pull any punches, let'm have it..don't hold back anything..lol

[Gervaise]

Would also add that in opting for Synthesis Shepard sells out the entire galaxy on the assurances of the leader of their enemy. Not one of his allies had ever indicated they wished an alliance with the Reapers, much less to be invested with Reaper synthetics. In ME2 even the majority of the Geth rejected this path, even though at the time they were under threat of attack, and approved of Shepard's decision to destroy the human reaper rather than try to utilise it. For some reason the developers overlooked this decision both in the acquisition of parts from the human reaper that I thought I had totally destroyed and in the Geth suddenly deciding that downloading the Reaper code was a good idea. So far as I was concerned, contrary to what the game indicated, allowing them to do this was a renegade option because I guessed that the only way to get both the Geth and the Quarians on my side was to let them do it, even though I thought it was a thoroughly bad idea. Still they continued to support me even though my stated intention was to destroy the Reapers with a big weapon that was intended to target Reapers and so anyone with Reaper tech might conceivably be affected.

Destroy is what we had been working towards for 3 games. We were constantly told that the reason that previous civilizations had failed to win against the Reapers was that the Reapers caused division, betrayal and undermined their efforts from within. Therefore, having resisted all attempts by the Reapers to cause such division, having united the entire galaxy, even historic enemies, having removed the threat of indoctrinated moles, the way lay open to give the galaxy the one thing it had never enjoyed - a destiny free of Reaper control. Then at the last hurdle Shepard becomes the betrayer from within. Look at the faces of the races as they contemplate the change - they are hardly celebrating - they are confused, understandably so - and we only have EDI's voiceover to assure us that we are now heading into a Reaper engineered utopia. No thanks.

[Wayning_Star]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

As much as I love Mass Effect, I'd rather be lobotomized than play ME4 with a canon Synthesis ending.

gosh, don't pull any punches, let'm have it..don't hold back anything..lol

I'm totally kidding with the lobotomy part....maybe.

Not only will Shepard be dead (which, if there's an ME4, I personally think it would need Shepard), but you'll have...Synthesis. DNA rape on the entire galaxy. No thanks.

yeah, the whole thing is like a friggen black hole..even light cannot escape. I think the MEU is stuck tho. The tech is bigger than the inventor..and it now they, wants answers. We built it and they came..but not to play baseball.  As usual, nature has to pay a price...but then, Mother Nature really doen't care what we do..got all the time in any given reality..lol

[Wayning_Star]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

Would also add that in opting for Synthesis Shepard sells out the entire galaxy on the assurances of the leader of their enemy. Not one of his allies had ever indicated they wished an alliance with the Reapers, much less to be invested with Reaper synthetics. In ME2 even the majority of the Geth rejected this path, even though at the time they were under threat of attack, and approved of Shepard's decision to destroy the human reaper rather than try to utilise it. For some reason the developers overlooked this decision both in the acquisition of parts from the human reaper that I thought I had totally destroyed and in the Geth suddenly deciding that downloading the Reaper code was a good idea. So far as I was concerned, contrary to what the game indicated, allowing them to do this was a renegade option because I guessed that the only way to get both the Geth and the Quarians on my side was to let them do it, even though I thought it was a thoroughly bad idea. Still they continued to support me even though my stated intention was to destroy the Reapers with a big weapon that was intended to target Reapers and so anyone with Reaper tech might conceivably be affected.

Destroy is what we had been working towards for 3 games. We were constantly told that the reason that previous civilizations had failed to win against the Reapers was that the Reapers caused division, betrayal and undermined their efforts from within. Therefore, having resisted all attempts by the Reapers to cause such division, having united the entire galaxy, even historic enemies, having removed the threat of indoctrinated moles, the way lay open to give the galaxy the one thing it had never enjoyed - a destiny free of Reaper control. Then at the last hurdle Shepard becomes the betrayer from within. Look at the faces of the races as they contemplate the change - they are hardly celebrating - they are confused, understandably so - and we only have EDI's voiceover to assure us that we are now heading into a Reaper engineered utopia. No thanks.

Well, I almost forgot.

It's DNA rape on the entire galaxy, sponsored by the Catalyst!

Double no thanks.

but the bad news is. all that good arguement doens't matter..doesn't change a thing..the problems still remain.