397 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

bad boy bad girl, what'cha gonna do..what'cha gonna do when they come fore you..

(sorry, couldn't resist..)

[obZen DF]

I love the refuse ending in concept. But I just can't pick it. But I wouldn't mind it being the 'canon' ending. My Shepard dies anyway :'(

Modifié par obZen DF, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[Seival]

There is no "canon" ending and never will be.

[NovaBlastMarketing]

Sorry have to disagree the only "current" ending i would even be in the vicinity of accepting is Destroy and ONLY if both conditions are met

A. Shepard is indeed alive

B If Ashley and Shep both are reunited and already in a firm loving romantic relationship at the start of the game ( no ohh i have to think about if I want to date you again ).

If Miranda is worked in as well that would be cool my alternate reality Shepard only got to play me 1 and me2 . He boycotted ME3 since Miranda w as only a cameo.


I still have only 1 full play though of ME3

[Subject M]

3DandBeyond wrote...

iSousek wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

estebanus wrote...

When my brother was at games com this year, he talked to Jessica Merizan, who said that if they'd make any sequels, Synthesis will have happened either way. It doesn't matter if Shepard chose it or not, it will still have transpired at that point.

Wat?  Not that I take what Merizan says seriously, but still.

According to the catalyst, synthesis is inevitable.
Control will lead to synthesis when the information on what happened and why is absorbed in the galactic community. Of course, it will not be forced in the same way it was in "Synthesis", at least not in a Paragon-control ending.

Destroy will also to synthesis, eventually, if it is inevitable as the Catalyst suggests and people somehow manges to get the information the Reapers had.

Catalyst says alot of things. Most of them are complete BS.

BioWare should really stay away from the word "inevitable". It makes them sound like some pseudoscientists.

And apparently the kid thinks anything he knows about is inevitable.  He knows synthetics have destroyed organics so they will inevitably do so.  He knows synthesis is somehow magically possible so now it's inevitable.  Heaven help us if he ever knows that it's possible for Justin Bieber and Snookie to have a reality tv show, because that will be inevitable.

And synthesis is inevitable is one of the, pardon me, stupidest things ever said in this game.  It can't be achieved through evolution.  It must be achieved artificially.  If it must always be forced and the kid can't do it, and needs to use a magic space battery to perform it, as well as a human sacrifice, it is anything but inevitable.  The kid has some of the worst logic of any advanced AI ever.  No wonder his creators had problems with synthetics-they created him and in so doing proved themselves to be totally incompetent.

Jessica is a BW employee but as far as I know does not work on the games.  I'm not bashing her here.  She's given information that she talks about on twitter and has said many things, but it may be that they are all just using ambiguity to misdirect fans.  They've done this in the games as well.  So they get you thinking one thing is true and then do another.  She may have been told that synthesis will happen, but even saying all that is ambiguous.  She also said on twitter before the EC came out that a reunion would happen.  When it didn't, she said it was implied.  Then she said it could be a living Shepard or a dying one.  This could just be BW playing with fans-it's not much fun, but they might think it is.

I agree that it is bad (one of many problematic features associated with the catalyst). If the catalyst had stated that it (controlled evolution bridging the chaos of organic evolution with synthetic order) was the only statistical success -scenario it knew of that would end the cycles it would have been another thing.

Anyway. A canon ending just goes against the very structure and idea of ME 1-3. It will never happen as long as the devlelopers stays true to it and respects it. It would completly invalidate the idea that it is your journey where your choices matter.

Modifié par Subject M, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:10 .

[Vox Draco]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
 all you've really argued is that Synthesis doesn't fit in the story, not that it is a bad thing to choose. At least, not for reasons other than story-telling, which only matters if you care about that kind of thing.

Well, it is a bad thing to choose as, because the story fails to deliver prior to the last stand, we or better the Cmdr. standing up there, has absolutely NO way of knowing what synthesis will ultimatly lead to. Granted, in that regard none of the decisions are sure. That's the problem of having those options tied directly to a character that introduces itself as the controller of the antagonists slaughtering billions of people...

And pardon me, but story-telling IS ALL that matters and the very reason why the ending led to such an uroar in the first place. I surely didn't play mass effect for the fancy graphics or the stunning combat, but for the chars and stories told in the game. And in that regard, synthesis and the entire set-up around it, including all choices abd how they are presented, fail. Destroy is merely the least annyoing of them all, and only a refuse with win would stay true to the story being told so far...

I am a little baffled that someone can look and criticize/support the endings other than on the basis of the story being told badly...every logical argument for or against synthesis is invalid for me, because the option itself simply has not grown naturally from the story. If it had, I would have no real problem with it in ME3...as the bad guy option, that is. After all, merging synth and orgs is the premise of the reapers. 

I am all romantic and humanistic. I think mankind shall do it on its own, for good or bad, without divine intervention. That'S why shepard's fate makes me mad beyond reason. The way they treat Shepard in the end in destroy and refuse is a kick in the guts of mankind itself for me...either humanity is screwed totally in refuse for Shepard, mankinds avatar, stays true to itself, or the avatar is treated like shiat, left in a pile of rubble without real closure to her fate...it irks me greatly...

[ThaDPG]

Subject M wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

iSousek wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

estebanus wrote...

When my brother was at games com this year, he talked to Jessica Merizan, who said that if they'd make any sequels, Synthesis will have happened either way. It doesn't matter if Shepard chose it or not, it will still have transpired at that point.

Wat?  Not that I take what Merizan says seriously, but still.

According to the catalyst, synthesis is inevitable.
Control will lead to synthesis when the information on what happened and why is absorbed in the galactic community. Of course, it will not be forced in the same way it was in "Synthesis", at least not in a Paragon-control ending.

Destroy will also to synthesis, eventually, if it is inevitable as the Catalyst suggests and people somehow manges to get the information the Reapers had.

Catalyst says alot of things. Most of them are complete BS.

BioWare should really stay away from the word "inevitable". It makes them sound like some pseudoscientists.

And apparently the kid thinks anything he knows about is inevitable.  He knows synthetics have destroyed organics so they will inevitably do so.  He knows synthesis is somehow magically possible so now it's inevitable.  Heaven help us if he ever knows that it's possible for Justin Bieber and Snookie to have a reality tv show, because that will be inevitable.

And synthesis is inevitable is one of the, pardon me, stupidest things ever said in this game.  It can't be achieved through evolution.  It must be achieved artificially.  If it must always be forced and the kid can't do it, and needs to use a magic space battery to perform it, as well as a human sacrifice, it is anything but inevitable.  The kid has some of the worst logic of any advanced AI ever.  No wonder his creators had problems with synthetics-they created him and in so doing proved themselves to be totally incompetent.

Jessica is a BW employee but as far as I know does not work on the games.  I'm not bashing her here.  She's given information that she talks about on twitter and has said many things, but it may be that they are all just using ambiguity to misdirect fans.  They've done this in the games as well.  So they get you thinking one thing is true and then do another.  She may have been told that synthesis will happen, but even saying all that is ambiguous.  She also said on twitter before the EC came out that a reunion would happen.  When it didn't, she said it was implied.  Then she said it could be a living Shepard or a dying one.  This could just be BW playing with fans-it's not much fun, but they might think it is.

I agree that it is bad (one of many problematic features associated with the catalyst). If the catalyst had stated that it (controlled evolution bridging the chaos of organic evolution with synthetic order) was the only statistical success -scenario it knew of that would end the cycles it would have been another thing.

Anyway. A canon ending just goes against the very structure and idea of ME 1-3. It will never happen as long as the devlelopers stays true to it and respects it.

Well, if BW decides to make another ME game set post ME 3, they're gonna have to pick a canon ending, and risk upsetting a group of people either way.  Kind of dug themselves into a hole there.  Unless they have the time and resources to make 4 mostly different games based on your imported ME 3 save

[Subject M]

ThaDPG wrote...

Subject M wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

iSousek wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

estebanus wrote...

When my brother was at games com this year, he talked to Jessica Merizan, who said that if they'd make any sequels, Synthesis will have happened either way. It doesn't matter if Shepard chose it or not, it will still have transpired at that point.

Wat?  Not that I take what Merizan says seriously, but still.

According to the catalyst, synthesis is inevitable.
Control will lead to synthesis when the information on what happened and why is absorbed in the galactic community. Of course, it will not be forced in the same way it was in "Synthesis", at least not in a Paragon-control ending.

Destroy will also to synthesis, eventually, if it is inevitable as the Catalyst suggests and people somehow manges to get the information the Reapers had.

Catalyst says alot of things. Most of them are complete BS.

BioWare should really stay away from the word "inevitable". It makes them sound like some pseudoscientists.

And apparently the kid thinks anything he knows about is inevitable.  He knows synthetics have destroyed organics so they will inevitably do so.  He knows synthesis is somehow magically possible so now it's inevitable.  Heaven help us if he ever knows that it's possible for Justin Bieber and Snookie to have a reality tv show, because that will be inevitable.

And synthesis is inevitable is one of the, pardon me, stupidest things ever said in this game.  It can't be achieved through evolution.  It must be achieved artificially.  If it must always be forced and the kid can't do it, and needs to use a magic space battery to perform it, as well as a human sacrifice, it is anything but inevitable.  The kid has some of the worst logic of any advanced AI ever.  No wonder his creators had problems with synthetics-they created him and in so doing proved themselves to be totally incompetent.

Jessica is a BW employee but as far as I know does not work on the games.  I'm not bashing her here.  She's given information that she talks about on twitter and has said many things, but it may be that they are all just using ambiguity to misdirect fans.  They've done this in the games as well.  So they get you thinking one thing is true and then do another.  She may have been told that synthesis will happen, but even saying all that is ambiguous.  She also said on twitter before the EC came out that a reunion would happen.  When it didn't, she said it was implied.  Then she said it could be a living Shepard or a dying one.  This could just be BW playing with fans-it's not much fun, but they might think it is.

I agree that it is bad (one of many problematic features associated with the catalyst). If the catalyst had stated that it (controlled evolution bridging the chaos of organic evolution with synthetic order) was the only statistical success -scenario it knew of that would end the cycles it would have been another thing.

Anyway. A canon ending just goes against the very structure and idea of ME 1-3. It will never happen as long as the devlelopers stays true to it and respects it.

Well, if BW decides to make another ME game set post ME 3, they're gonna have to pick a canon ending, and risk upsetting a group of people either way.  Kind of dug themselves into a hole there.  Unless they have the time and resources to make 4 mostly different games based on your imported ME 3 save

Thats  is why they will never make a game set post ME3, at least as long as they care about what ME 1-3 was all about.
Simple as that.

Modifié par Subject M, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:19 .

[Vox Draco]

Subject M wrote...
Thats  is why they will never make a game set post ME3, at least as long as they care about what ME 1-3 was all about.
Simple as that.

When I look on how they tld the story up from ME1 I often get the feeling they really didn't care that much, jsut made up things as they moved along the franchise...so many things don't fit together when you look at the whoel picture, a canon ending wouldn't be that bad then, it might in fact lead to a fresh reboot...though please no green or blue...

[ThaDPG]

Vox Draco wrote...

Subject M wrote...
Thats  is why they will never make a game set post ME3, at least as long as they care about what ME 1-3 was all about.
Simple as that.

When I look on how they tld the story up from ME1 I often get the feeling they really didn't care that much, jsut made up things as they moved along the franchise...so many things don't fit together when you look at the whoel picture, a canon ending wouldn't be that bad then, it might in fact lead to a fresh reboot...though please no green or blue...

I'm with you, if they do pick a canon ending, destroy or refuse is the way to go

[Subject M]

Vox Draco wrote...

Subject M wrote...
Thats  is why they will never make a game set post ME3, at least as long as they care about what ME 1-3 was all about.
Simple as that.

When I look on how they tld the story up from ME1 I often get the feeling they really didn't care that much, jsut made up things as they moved along the franchise...so many things don't fit together when you look at the whoel picture, a canon ending wouldn't be that bad then, it might in fact lead to a fresh reboot...though please no green or blue...

But it would invalidate the choice of the players to make it their own story. That is quite a different thing then failing at some continuity details and dropping plot points.

And ME3 is designed to be the closing chapter on the ME-universe saga (although new chapters can be added before this final segment).

I do not see why these things are so hard to understand.

Modifié par Subject M, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:31 .

[Vox Draco]

ThaDPG wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Subject M wrote...
Thats  is why they will never make a game set post ME3, at least as long as they care about what ME 1-3 was all about.
Simple as that.

When I look on how they tld the story up from ME1 I often get the feeling they really didn't care that much, jsut made up things as they moved along the franchise...so many things don't fit together when you look at the whoel picture, a canon ending wouldn't be that bad then, it might in fact lead to a fresh reboot...though please no green or blue...

I'm with you, if they do pick a canon ending, destroy or refuse is the way to go

Even though it pains me to write, but even control is an option when I think about it: Yet it would mean in my book to fight a digital copy of shepard /she is dead, no way around that in control or synthesis) and her reaper hordes controlling the galaxy...but that would be too painful, no buying from me here...

Subject M wrote...
But it would invalidate the choice of the players to make it their own story. That is quite a different thing then failing at some continuity details and dropping plot points.

And ME3 is designed to be the closing chapter on the ME-universe saga (although new chapters can be added before this final segment).

I do not see why these things are so hard to understand.

Many things were already invalidated by the endings, as far as I am concerned. Further invalidating, especially if it only eradicates synth or control, is of no interest to me actually. That choice is so contrived at the end, invalidating it is no big deal, it shouldn't have been there at all anyway. Especially if one or two hinder the continuation of the franchise...i am quite practical here...

And the closing chapter...come on...whoever believed something like that anyway...Never say never...

Modifié par Vox Draco, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:36 .

[Jason007Fisher]

Bioware seem serious about this next Mass Effect game...if they set it after ME3, I believe they will be forced to create a canon storyline - similar to what they did with ME2 for new players when it released originally (without the ME1-comic). Thus, in my opinion, as a player who wanted to incinerate every single Reaper - 'Destroy' is the only possible canon ending as Shepard lives (at least in my playthrough). Moreover, the other choices of Control and Synthesis were only partially developed in ME3 - prior to playing ME3 the storyline posits a single best ending, with the Reapers being vanquished. Had there been a continual build up of the other options throughout the previous games, I wouldn't be so against them...

As a poster said above, Mass Effect without Shepard simply isn't Mass Effect. In the long run, Shepard will eventually have to be laid to rest...Incidentally, that's how I always justified the StarGazer epilogue - it's an event that it is occurring hundreds of thousands of years later, long after Shepard (who survived following the use of the Catalyst - as it should be...) has passed on. 

ME4 (for lack of better alternative) should pick up several years later following the events of ME3 and deal with a new threat. This threat does not need to be galactic on scale but could at first seem isolated and then expand. The Mass Effect universe is rich in lore and potential stories and enemies. Though topping the Reapers will be challenge, I am certain that if Karpyshyn is returned to helm the next game, he will deliver.

Modifié par Jason007Fisher, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:44 .

[ThaDPG]

Jason007Fisher wrote...

Bioware seem serious about this next Mass Effect game...if they set it after ME3, I believe they will be forced to create a canon storyline - similar to what they did with ME2 for new players when it released originally (without the ME1-comic). Thus, in my opinion, as a player who wanted to incinerate every single Reaper - 'Destroy' is the only possible canon ending as Shepard lives (at least in my playthrough). As a poster said above, Mass Effect without Shepard simply isn't Mass Effect. In the long run, Shepard will eventually have to be laid to rest...Incidentally, that's how I always justified the StarGazer epilogue - it's an event that it is occurring hundreds of thousands of years later, long after Shepard (who survived following the use of the Catalyst - as it should be...) has passed on. 

ME4 (for lack of better alternative) should pick up several years later following the events of ME3 and deal with a new threat. This threat does not need to be galactic on scale but could at first seem isolated and then expand. The Mass Effect universe is rich in lore and potential stories and enemies. Though topping the Reapers will be challenge, I am certain that if Karpyshyn is returned to helm the next game, he will deliver.

Well, I honestly wouldn't mind a post ME 3 game that focuses more on the galaxy rebuilding after the Reaper War, than any big galactic threat, but if we have to have one, the Leviathans are the only plausible threat of that nature that I can see

[Subject M]

Vox Draco wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Subject M wrote...
Thats  is why they will never make a game set post ME3, at least as long as they care about what ME 1-3 was all about.
Simple as that.

When I look on how they tld the story up from ME1 I often get the feeling they really didn't care that much, jsut made up things as they moved along the franchise...so many things don't fit together when you look at the whoel picture, a canon ending wouldn't be that bad then, it might in fact lead to a fresh reboot...though please no green or blue...

I'm with you, if they do pick a canon ending, destroy or refuse is the way to go

Even though it pains me to write, but even control is an option when I think about it: Yet it would mean in my book to fight a digital copy of shepard /she is dead, no way around that in control or synthesis) and her reaper hordes controlling the galaxy...but that would be too painful, no buying from me here...

Subject M wrote...
But it would invalidate the choice of the players to make it their own story. That is quite a different thing then failing at some continuity details and dropping plot points.

And ME3 is designed to be the closing chapter on the ME-universe saga (although new chapters can be added before this final segment).

I do not see why these things are so hard to understand.

Many things were already invalidated by the endings, as far as I am concerned. Further invalidating, especially if it only eradicates synth or control, is of no interest to me actually. That choice is so contrived at the end, invalidating it is no big deal, it shouldn't have been there at all anyway. Especially if one or two hinder the continuation of the franchise...i am quite practical here...

And the closing chapter...come on...whoever believed something like that anyway...Never say never...

Of course everything can be argued. People who understand something differently will derive different conclusions regarding what they see. (And people with varying competence often wants to have their say).

But that is also a reason to not disrupt a structure that includes different takes and paths by excluding them in forming a new structure.  The mass effect series is an example of such an including multifaceted story that would effectively be ruined by doing what you say.

You need to think about this I think.

[ATiBotka]

Jason007Fisher wrote...

As a poster said above, Mass Effect without Shepard simply isn't Mass Effect.

I disagree. Shepard is just a man. Let him rest.

[Luigitornado]

Nah.

Honestly it sounds boring going through the same motions as we just did in this trilogy.

[Vox Draco]

Subject M wrote...
Of course everything can be argued. People who understand something differently will derive different conclusions regarding what they see. (And people with varying competence often wants to have their say).

But that is also a reason to not disrupt a structure that includes different takes and paths by excluding them in forming a new structure.  The mass effect series is an example of such an including multifaceted story that would effectively be ruined by doing what you say.

You need to think about this I think.

I spent months since march thinking about all this. I came to my personal conclusion that the options/decisions we get presented in the end of ME3 are not worth being saved, as they have no place earned in the story itself. It would not be ruined, but maybe redeemed, set back on track.

In fact, you say something about different takes and paths to choose, mass effect being multifaceted. Right. But the way the three/four choices are introduced in the end are a mere mockery of this. They are forced out of nowhere, not grown from the story itself. Therefore, I feel no pity if they canonize one ending that lets them continue the franchise in the future in a way it makes sense...aka destroy or successful refuse (one may dream...)

[Wayning_Star]

It's really cool how folks can invalidate stuff they don't like but all the stuff they like is,like, double validated.. san story tellers...lol

I don't really think that picking an ending and forming a canon means: User Rewriting...

sheesh.. so much to do , so little time...

[AlanC9]

Vox Draco wrote...

Subject M wrote...
Of course everything can be argued. People who understand something differently will derive different conclusions regarding what they see. (And people with varying competence often wants to have their say).

But that is also a reason to not disrupt a structure that includes different takes and paths by excluding them in forming a new structure.  The mass effect series is an example of such an including multifaceted story that would effectively be ruined by doing what you say.

You need to think about this I think.

I spent months since march thinking about all this. I came to my personal conclusion that the options/decisions we get presented in the end of ME3 are not worth being saved, as they have no place earned in the story itself. It would not be ruined, but maybe redeemed, set back on track.

In fact, you say something about different takes and paths to choose, mass effect being multifaceted. Right. But the way the three/four choices are introduced in the end are a mere mockery of this. They are forced out of nowhere, not grown from the story itself. Therefore, I feel no pity if they canonize one ending that lets them continue the franchise in the future in a way it makes sense...aka destroy or successful refuse (one may dream...)

Looking at your positions, and the others in this thread... it looks like Bio's going to have some people stalking away in fury no matter what they do.

[ThaDPG]

AlanC9 wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Subject M wrote...
Of course everything can be argued. People who understand something differently will derive different conclusions regarding what they see. (And people with varying competence often wants to have their say).

But that is also a reason to not disrupt a structure that includes different takes and paths by excluding them in forming a new structure.  The mass effect series is an example of such an including multifaceted story that would effectively be ruined by doing what you say.

You need to think about this I think.

I spent months since march thinking about all this. I came to my personal conclusion that the options/decisions we get presented in the end of ME3 are not worth being saved, as they have no place earned in the story itself. It would not be ruined, but maybe redeemed, set back on track.

In fact, you say something about different takes and paths to choose, mass effect being multifaceted. Right. But the way the three/four choices are introduced in the end are a mere mockery of this. They are forced out of nowhere, not grown from the story itself. Therefore, I feel no pity if they canonize one ending that lets them continue the franchise in the future in a way it makes sense...aka destroy or successful refuse (one may dream...)

Looking at your positions, and the others in this thread... it looks like Bio's going to have some people stalking away in fury no matter what they do.

True, but just looking at the BSN, they'll upset the least amount of people by going with Destroy or successful refuse if they pick a canon ending

[Wayning_Star]

AlanC9 wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Subject M wrote...
Of course everything can be argued. People who understand something differently will derive different conclusions regarding what they see. (And people with varying competence often wants to have their say).

But that is also a reason to not disrupt a structure that includes different takes and paths by excluding them in forming a new structure.  The mass effect series is an example of such an including multifaceted story that would effectively be ruined by doing what you say.

You need to think about this I think.

I spent months since march thinking about all this. I came to my personal conclusion that the options/decisions we get presented in the end of ME3 are not worth being saved, as they have no place earned in the story itself. It would not be ruined, but maybe redeemed, set back on track.

In fact, you say something about different takes and paths to choose, mass effect being multifaceted. Right. But the way the three/four choices are introduced in the end are a mere mockery of this. They are forced out of nowhere, not grown from the story itself. Therefore, I feel no pity if they canonize one ending that lets them continue the franchise in the future in a way it makes sense...aka destroy or successful refuse (one may dream...)

Looking at your positions, and the others in this thread... it looks like Bio's going to have some people stalking away in fury no matter what they do.

mostly hype from certain threaders tho...they just want what they want when they want it.. A good'ol John Wayne ending..but NOT the shootist...that one kind of well, you know...

[ShepnTali]

EDIT -- wrong thread

Modifié par ShepnTali, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:13 .

[Vox Draco]

AlanC9 wrote...
Looking at your positions, and the others in this thread... it looks like Bio's going to have some people stalking away in fury no matter what they do.

Yes, certainly. They wrote themselves into it. If they want to continue the story after ME3 in the future, how can you possibly NOT invalidate at least three of the endings, and "anger" the supporters?

That's why I would love and hug Bioware if they actually find a way to continue the story after ME3 by invalidating ALL three/four choices...there are ways to do that, though even then many (rightfully mayb?) will say it is a cop-out and so on...

But other than choosing one ending and make it canon, how would it work otherwise?

And I don't know much about John Wayne, but if it means Shepard ends the story straight-forward by actually killing reapers and stopping them as a soldier...yes, very much so...thank you. I wanted that, still want that, and I am aware I propably won't get it...

[T-Raks]

Sorry, refuse doesn't qualify as canon, because Shepard lets the galaxy down if he refuses. Destroy (always my choice) or control are OK, synthesis is out, because I can't come up with a story for that shiat. 

Modifié par T-Raks, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:32 .