51 réponses à ce sujet

[Eire Icon]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Super.Sid: Sadly though - it was hardly a choice for most people (I imagine).

Those that liked Anders - probably hated Sebastian.

And those like me who preferred Sebastian likely had no qualms killing Anders.

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With Kaidan and Ashley I think it was much harder for more people (even if most people simply chose their love interest)

I would have to agree

With Ash and Kaidan you weren't at the end of the game, you had to continue on without for another 10+ hours

With Seb and Anders nobody had to die, they just left your party

[TsaiMeLemoni]

As long as it was handled pretty well, then absolutely.

[ChaosAgentLoki]

I would like something like this. However, I'd like it to be more in line with the Suicide Mission than Virmire. With the suicide mission, all of my party was at risk and that made everything far more tense than just two characters who I barely care about and forcing me to choose between the two of them.

[Risax]

If they put in enough effort, sure.
They brought more than a few tears to my eyes when they did it in Mass Effect, so I know they can do it.

[Patchwork]

 I was going to say at least with DA games being more or less standalones we wouldn't get the VS situation where Kaidan and Ashley merged into one character but then I remembered Carver and Bethany.

I'm all for a quest where there's no right choice and the decision impacts the game but I'd like something a bit more original than a retread of Virmire.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:56 .

[terdferguson123]

In a lot of ways I felt like the lands-meet choice was one of the best in the DA series. I grew attached to Alistair throughout the game and I was a big fan of Loghain from reading the books. It was a tough one that I thought about for a long time.

[Heimdall]

Something in a similar vein would be desirable if the Dragon Age team could make it their own rather that retreading Virmire.

[Dutchess]

DA2 was already full of forced losses of Hawke's family. I think I'm done with that for the time being.

[snackrat]

I see pros and cons of both.

YES:
Pros: Adds to the story, gives it emotional weight, a legitimate choice that stays static.
Cons: AUGH BUT THEY ARE BOTH SO AWESOME... I FLOVE YOU GUYS

NO:
Pros: Avoiding the hated feeling of powerlessness [1], allows for more choice in game setup, avoids contrived choices that feel purposeless simply to stall
Cons: Players feel there is a 'right' way to play if they can save everyone, and always take it


Note that I'm talking the CHOICE here, rather than just watching things fall under you. Because footnote (the [1] from earlier).
Also, there's still the risk that the choice isn't well balanced. For example, turn Isabela over or fight for her. Whether you love her or hate her, the answer seems obvious. Few people feel a tug - it's either "This Arishok is a total SOB, COME AT ME BRO" or "FINALLY a way to get rid of this b*** WHY did I ever pick here up?!".
Then there's making us choose between two evils - the mages vs templars. In theory, you're fighting for an ideal, but you look around and it just seems like a contrived choice that ultimately means nothing... you don't want to side with anyone because they're both moronic, yet they'll force you to choose an option before they even let you quit in disgust.
When I had to choice between Ash and Kaiden, I froze. I spend more time at that conversation wheel thinking "What happens? Who do I save?" then I did talking to Saren at end-game. THAT is a well-made choice. Granted, some people would have thought "Ashley, getting rid of your racist butt!" or "Kaiden, getting rid of your morality complex!" and gone through right there, but it was still well-crafted.
______________________________________

[1] It is possible to lose in a game without feeling powerless, but I've seen few developers pull it off. Instead of making the odds impossible, they just turn you into a useless idiot until the oppurtunity window is gone. It is possible to have Character A escape without giving Character B a the brain and reflexes of a pudding for the duration of a cutscene.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:20 .

[nightscrawl]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Super.Sid: Sadly though - it was hardly a choice for most people (I imagine).

Those that liked Anders - probably hated Sebastian.

And those like me who preferred Sebastian likely had no qualms killing Anders.

Well that doesn't really apply to me, but I take your point. But, even for characters that are similar, people can always find justification for picking one over the other, whether that be something arbitrary or a serious roleplay reason.

I don't know how it works out in the ME games since I've never played one, but in that specific instance in DA2 it's at the end of the game where you are already established with these characters. I don't know... even though I choose to kill Anders most of the time I do it for specific reasons (which I won't get into here), and I feel much more invested in Anders as a character and as part of the story than I do with Sebastian. Killing Anders seems like a big deal. Having Sebastian walk away if you decide to not kill Anders seems like less of a deal, to me.


At any rate, even though I'm a "companion collector" like Plaintiff above, I wouldn't mind something like this, as long as it's (1) done well, (2) doesn't seem arbitrary, like the Hawke sibling choice based on class, and (3) has some significance.

The reason I don't mind is that we tend to have a glut of companions, especially since our party size is limited to +3 followers. So if in successive plays I was aware of these choices, I can just choose who I want, with the end result being that I have a smaller group composed of mainly people I wanted to run around with, instead of what I do now which is continually leave three or more companions at home because I either don't like or have no use for them.

[Battlebloodmage]

Didn't we have somewhat similar experience with Carver and Bethany or Anders and Sebastian? I personally don't want that, but I would accept it if I don't have a choice. I wasn't too terribly attached to Ashley so choosing between her and Kaidan is a no brainer, dat ass.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:51 .

[b09boy]

I wouldn't mind it. Generally speaking, though, I'd like for there to be more ways to lose companions. They have their own agendas, skills and the like and you're supposed to be on a dangerous journey. So what happens when their agenda is up? When you do something they deplore? When you flat out make a wrong tactical choice? Keeping a party together throughout an entire game should be difficult.

Look at Origins. You could lose Wynne twice over, Leliana in the same breath, Shale if you sided with the wrong group, Sten Oghren and Zevran if they don't like you enough, Alistair if you make one critical choice and Morrigan if you make another. It's good to have a sense of real danger in the story, that you're going through something of a gauntlet.

[Kail Ashton]

I prefer the more classic rpg style of "choosing which story branches dictates which companions you get" kind of style, adds to the replaibility more, assuming actual effort if put into making the branches unique-ish

[Sable Rhapsody]

Yes, but with a caveat. I don't like the effect the Virmire choice ended up having on the rest of the series. Ash and Kaidan, despite having very different personalities and attitudes, ended up being relegated to the same narrative role. It felt sort of stilted and forced, especially in ME2. If this is going to happen in DA3, I'd like to avoid that trap.

[mordy_was_here]

If it was handled with grace and actually made me *feel* something? Of course. I'd like losing one companion for another to inspire some sort of guilt or at least remorse.

[Vox Draco]

If one of the chars to get killed is as unsympathetic and annyoing as Ashley Williams I do not care...Morrigan is my choice, I would love to sacrifice her for the greater good...I would have fed her to the Archdemon already if I had the choice...

[Wulfram]

I'm not so keen on it when it basically amounts to a popularity contest. I'd rather attach the choice to other issues

[Sable Rhapsody]

Medhia Nox wrote...
@Super.Sid: Sadly though - it was hardly a choice for most people (I imagine).

Those that liked Anders - probably hated Sebastian.

And those like me who preferred Sebastian likely had no qualms killing Anders.

Mmm, not necessarily true.  I loved Sebastian.  And Anders.  I went with Anders because I felt it made more sense for my protagonist, not because I liked him better than Seb.

[Momiji.mii]

I think the shock effect of the Virmire choice in ME was effective, but I don't think that every game needs one of those moments when the protagonist gets to choose who lives or who dies. I'd rather have things be a natural progression of the current path you're on. No need to play god with the companion's lives. In sort: been there, done that. Let's do something new instead.

[Gethrian]

I rather keep all my companions. I didn't like choice between Sebastian and Anders in DA2 since I liked them both. Though I don't mind Virmire in ME1 anymore I remember being quite mad when I player it first time lol. I also don't want anything like Bethany and Carver where who dies is determined by your class. I don't mind situations where companions might die as long as there is some way to save them.

[Conquerthecity]

Sure. But only if interchangability between the characters was avoided. 

[Mahamari]

I'd welcome something similar to Virmire in terms of impact. I generally like difficult choices with permanent consequences that eliminate a significant portion of the game experience so future replays can be fresher.

[Rawgrim]

I`d like it. But here is an idea. The choice doesn`t have to end with the death of a companion. Maybe one gets turtured and imprisoned for awhile, or something worse. You could get the companion back later too. Or maybe you are forced to downright betray a characcter for the greater good.

[Dave of Canada]

Yes. Hell, more choices like this with some consequences outside who lives and dies would be good.

Defend a bomb or abandon the squad, do the mission or save the companion. No "happy" route.

[Foolsfolly]

Eire Icon wrote...

Would you be in favour of a "Virmire" style choice in DA3 where you are forced to choose between companions?

Do you feel these type of choices add to the game or would you prefer a NPC dying not to be outside of your control. Are these the type of choices you want to see in DA3?

I've included a poll below

social.bioware.com/2603331/polls/39557/

EDIT: Just to clarify I'm not proposing "Virmire" as an actual scenario, more a situation where there is no "Right" choice and guarenteed consequences

As a huge fan of the Mass Effect series I feel I can say this.

I don't like the Virmire choice and I'm so glad the other two Mass Effect games stayed away from it. The whole choice of "this character or that character" especially on Virmire felt.... shallow.

Virmire happened in a situtation where Shepard and two crew members were on their way to one character. A drop ship somehow flies past the Normandy the most advanced warship in Citadel space. Instead of the Normandy providing cover fire for an area it was just in 5 seconds ago the dropship lands. Now this leaves 2 squadmates and every marine on the Normandy fully capable of saving the other companion. But they don't.

I mean Garrus and Wrex should be able to extract a crew member surely? Garrus later holds off hundreds of men for hours from his perch at a window. He even takes out a damned gunship with one shot.

Now that that's out of the way.

The actual "Character A or Character B" choice we've had those before Mass Effect and after. There was Death's Hand, there was Alistair or Loghain, there was Anders or Sebstain, and there was Samara or Morinth.

It's probable that a choice between two characters will happen. It's probable that one may die (Anders/Sebstain). But the exact same choice on Virmire of who do you let die instead of saving? That may happen I just hope it doesn't. It's not a real strong emotional choice.

Now ME3 Tuchanka with Mordin still alive and you decide the krogan should not be cured for galactic stablity reasons... that character death had a punch to it. I felt miserable after that. This guy or that guy drama unneeded.