208 réponses à ce sujet

[Emzamination]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

It is not the sex that's the problem, it's the extreme lack of commitment.Every romance has this issue but they all eventually do enter into a relationship with the protagonist.

Anders - Won't commit because of his Demon

Fenris - Won't commit because his slave master

Merrill - Won't commit because of the mirror

Isabela - Won't commit because she's afraid to love

But that isn't the bias I'm speaking of, the bias comes from lack of an alternative.Bad writing indeed.

So because there's more going on in these characters' lives than banging your character, you assume lack of commitment and bad writing.

OK.

/facepalm

[upsettingshorts]

Emzamination wrote...

The origin romances were far deeper, diverse and offered multiple outcomes beginning/middle and end of the romance.For example even tho morrigan leaves either way, during the relationship you can attempt to establish it as just sex or something deeper.Somewhere someone dropped the ball on good writing.The appauling thing is that refuse like that was tested and got approved.I want a game testers P.o.V, where is allan?

Prove it, demonstrate all the different permutations. Stick to consistent definitions of "multiple outcomes" and "beginning/middle/end."

Fair warning: Every time I challenge someone to do this to prove their point, they've never done it successfully. Usually because their point usually boils down to "I just liked X more" and I already know they can't because they're wrong.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:46 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Emzamination wrote...

It is not the sex that's the problem, it's the extreme lack of commitment.Every romance has this issue but they all eventually do enter into a relationship with the protagonist.

Anders - Won't commit because of his Demon

Fenris - Won't commit because his slave master

Merrill - Won't commit because of the mirror

Isabela - Won't commit because she's afraid to love

But that isn't the bias I'm speaking of, the bias comes from lack of an alternative.Bad writing indeed.

I think if you're hoping some romance where LI ~*commits*~ and does nothing but fawn over your sparkle PC and get married and have their twins and then ride off into the sunset, then you're going to be sadly disappointed

"OHMIGOSH YOU PEOPLE GET OVER YOUR DEEP-SEATED PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES AND LOVE ME"

yeah how about no

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:47 .

[Maclimes]

It occurs to me that this is a likely scenario:

The writers wanted Hawke to be non-committed at the end of the game, so they could potentially do something specific in a later game. So romance is possible, but not long-term commitment.

[Renmiri1]

Yup.. But apparently being able to select a diplomatic response if you disagree with the flirt option is an insult of some sort and makes everyone at BW bad writers that don't take pride in their work.

Talk about entitled whining!

[upsettingshorts]

Also I kind of can't get a good grasp on the point of this thread because my Hawke romanced Isabela, and by the end of their relationship, it had grown into something serious.

Had it not taken a while to get there would have been to betray what Isabela's character was about.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Also I kind of can't get a good grasp on the point of this thread because my Hawke romanced Isabela, and by the end of their relationship, it had grown into something serious.

Had it not taken a while to get there would have been to betray what Isabela's character was about.

What I don't understand about any of this is that it's been insinuated that just because the DA2 LIs had *gasp* other issues in their lives that didn't revolve around the PC, that somehow means they're not committed to a relationship????

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:55 .

[Emzamination]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The origin romances were far deeper, diverse and offered multiple outcomes beginning/middle and end of the romance.For example even tho morrigan leaves either way, during the relationship you can attempt to establish it as just sex or something deeper.Somewhere someone dropped the ball on good writing.The appauling thing is that refuse like that was tested and got approved.I want a game testers P.o.V, where is allan?

Prove it, demonstrate all the different permutations. Stick to consistent definitions of "multiple outcomes" and "beginning/middle/end."

Fair warning: Every time I challenge someone to do this to prove their point, they've never done it successfully. Usually because their point usually boils down to "I just liked X more" and I already know they can't because they're wrong.

Morrigan - Beginning: Establish relationship intent as casual sex or something deeper after sex talk/Middle: After flemeth's grimoire you can enter a casual sex or continue into something deeper in which she won't sleep with you/ End: You can either break the relationship off or attempt to go after her.

Alistair - Establish relationship intent as casual sex or something deeper before sex talk/ Middle: either he'll become king or stay a warden which affects the relationship stability/ End: The protagonist will either be queen,consort,fellow warden lover or they can break up.

Leliana - Beginning: Establish relationship intent as casual or something more before sex/ Middle: Harden or not which alter her views on the relationship/ End: Leliana can either become a royal consort, the protagonist and leliana can stay together but go seperate ways or you can break up

Zevran - Beginning: Establish relationship intent as casual sex or something deeper after sex talk/Middle: Either accept his earing and continue on with casual sex or reject it and enter something deeper/ End: Zevran can become a royal cosort, you can follow him on his crow travels or you can break up

Next

Modifié par Emzamination, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:00 .

[Emzamination]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

It is not the sex that's the problem, it's the extreme lack of commitment.Every romance has this issue but they all eventually do enter into a relationship with the protagonist.

Anders - Won't commit because of his Demon

Fenris - Won't commit because his slave master

Merrill - Won't commit because of the mirror

Isabela - Won't commit because she's afraid to love

But that isn't the bias I'm speaking of, the bias comes from lack of an alternative.Bad writing indeed.

I think if you're hoping some romance where LI ~*commits*~ and does nothing but fawn over your sparkle PC and get married and have their twins and then ride off into the sunset, then you're going to be sadly disappointed

"OHMIGOSH YOU PEOPLE GET OVER YOUR DEEP-SEATED PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES AND LOVE ME"

yeah how about no

That's your idea of commitment rinji, not mine.My Issue as I've stated many times in this thread...O wait, just read the thread.

[Emzamination]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Also I kind of can't get a good grasp on the point of this thread because my Hawke romanced Isabela, and by the end of their relationship, it had grown into something serious.

Had it not taken a while to get there would have been to betray what Isabela's character was about.

Nuff said /roll end game credits

[upsettingshorts]

Emzamination wrote...

Morrigan - Beginning: Establish relationship intent as casual sex or something deeper after sex talk/Middle: After flemeth's grimoire you can enter a casual sex or continue into something deeper in which she won't sleep with you/ End: You can either break the relationship off or attempt to go after her.

Morrigan never commits.  That's almost the entire point of her romance.  

So, no.

Emzamination wrote... 

Alistair - Establish relationship intent as casual sex or something deeper before sex talk/ Middle: either he'll become king or stay a warden which affects the relationship stability/ End: The protagonist will either be queen,consort,fellow warden lover or they can break up.

Alistair the Virgin does not enter into sex casually.  You have to get his approval ratings extremely high before he will even consider it, and in that context it's hardly anything but serious.

So, no.

Emzamination wrote...  

Leliana - Beginning: Establish relationship intent as casual or something more before sex/ Middle: Harden or not which alter her views on the relationship/ End: Leliana can either become a royal consort, the protagonist and leliana can stay together but go seperate ways or you can break up

Leliana is pretty flexible, yes.  

So, yes.

Emzamination wrote...  

Zevran - Beginning: Establish relationship intent as casual sex or something deeper after sex talk/Middle: Either accept his earing and continue on with casual sex or reject it and enter something deeper/ End: Zevran can become a royal cosort, you can follow him on his crow travels or you can break up

Zevran does not begin as anything other than casual.  It can develop into something more serious, sure, but so can Isabela.  They are comparable in this sense.

So, no.

Emzamination wrote...   

Next

Does that mean you'll be following up with your perception of the DA2 romances along these lines, because the comparison is what's important.

Emzamination wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Also I kind of can't get a good grasp on the point of this thread because my Hawke romanced Isabela, and by the endof their relationship, it had grown into something serious.

Had it not taken a while to get there would have been to betray what Isabela's character was about.

Nuff said /roll end game credits

IT IS TRULY "APPAULING" 

Also, with this comment your definition of what constitutes commitment is slipping further into inconsistent meaninglessness.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:13 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Emzamination wrote...

That's your idea of commitment rinji, not mine.My Issue as I've stated many times in this thread...O wait, just read the thread.

No, I've read the thread and I see this:

I WANT MY PC TO BE THE ONLY THING IN MY LI'S LIFE THAT MATTERS

ME ME ME I AM A SEX GOD

You haven't even clearly expained what you mean by commitment.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:08 .

[Emzamination]

Maclimes wrote...

It occurs to me that this is a likely scenario:

The writers wanted Hawke to be non-committed at the end of the game, so they could potentially do something specific in a later game. So romance is possible, but not long-term commitment.

The writers have repeatedly said that they want to keep switching up protagonist each new release so I don't see why there is a restriction on just how deep the romance can get.It's not like we'll be playing these people in future titles.

[Emzamination]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Yup.. But apparently being able to select a diplomatic response if you disagree with the flirt option is an insult of some sort and makes everyone at BW bad writers that don't take pride in their work.

Talk about entitled whining!

Says she with no rebuttal

[mesmerizedish]

I don't understand. If you don't like one line, just pick a different line.

[Emzamination]

[quote]Upsettingshorts wrote...

Morrigan never commits.  That's almost the entire point of her romance.  [/quote]

Wrong, Morrigan commits to the protagonist till the very end when they split and even then the state of the relationship is defined as shown in witch hunt.

[quote]
Alistair the Virgin does not enter into sex casually.  You have to get
his approval ratings extremely high before he will even consider it, and
in that context it's hardly anything but serious.[/quote]

Wrong, You can totally tell alistair that it's just sex


[quote]Emzamination wrote...  

Zevran does not begin as anything other than casual.  It can
develop into something more serious, sure, but so can Isabela.  They are
comparable in this sense.[/quote]

You can pursue something more after the sex in which he gives 'the son of a ****' rundown

[quote]Does that mean you'll be following up with your perception of the DA2
romances along these lines, because the comparison is what's important.[/quote]

Naw that's just me being cocky



[quote]Had it not taken a while to get there would have been to betray what Isabela's character was about.[/quote]


[/quote]

The ending is not as important as the journey itself, on that we'll agree to disagree

[Emzamination]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

That's your idea of commitment rinji, not mine.My Issue as I've stated many times in this thread...O wait, just read the thread.

No, I've read the thread and I see this:

I WANT MY PC TO BE THE ONLY THING IN MY LI'S LIFE THAT MATTERS

ME ME ME I AM A SEX GOD

You haven't even clearly expained what you mean by commitment.

Oh I see, reading comprehension failure, can't help with that boss, sorry.

[Rinji the Bearded]

I don't even know what the title is supposed to mean.

"romance bias" = what, because they had specific aims for each romance that you couldn't control?

"protagonist personal affairs" = I know you get to control what they look like and sometimes what they say, but do you really think you have that much "personal" stake with the protagonist?

"some things should remain sacred, no?" = What???????????

Emzamination wrote...

Oh I see, reading comprehension failure, can't help with that boss, sorry.

Oh, so you don't even know what you're talking about.  I get it now.  Hard to argue with someone who won't admit they're incorrect.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:24 .

[Emzamination]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I don't understand. If you don't like one line, just pick a different line.

They are all the same line reworded to tunnel to the same end point.

[Maclimes]

Emzamination wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

It occurs to me that this is a likely scenario:

The writers wanted Hawke to be non-committed at the end of the game, so they could potentially do something specific in a later game. So romance is possible, but not long-term commitment.

The writers have repeatedly said that they want to keep switching up protagonist each new release so I don't see why there is a restriction on just how deep the romance can get.It's not like we'll be playing these people in future titles.

The ability to play as Hawke is not the same as the relevance of Hawke to the story.

I'm not saying for sure one way or the other. Just throwing out a possibility.

[mesmerizedish]

Emzamination wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I don't understand. If you don't like one line, just pick a different line.

They are all the same line reworded to tunnel to the same end point.

No they're not?!?!?!

If I remember, one line was something so simple as "hey it just made me think of you, calm the hell down."

[upsettingshorts]

Emzamination wrote...

Wrong, Morrigan commits to the protagonist till the very end when they split and even then the state of the relationship is defined as shown in witch hunt.

And if we were comparing Witch Hunt to the Isabela DLC that'd be relevant.  Except there isn't any.

In vanilla, there is no commitment from Morrigan to the Warden.  None.  That's why she warns an eager Warden off.  

Emzamination wrote... 

Wrong, You can totally tell alistair that it's just sex

As if he entertains that idea for a second.

Emzamination wrote...  

You can pursue something more after the sex in which he gives 'the son of a ****' rundown

You mean how you can getIsabela to talk about love and eventually have a serious relationship?

Consistency requirement slipping.

Emzamination wrote...

Naw that's just me being cocky

Still waiting for the DA2 romances and how they're so much more limited or whatever it is your point was.

Emzamination wrote...

The ending is not as important as the journey itself, on that we'll agree to disagree

This is nonsense in context.  I have advocated nothing of the sort, and you have advocated nothing of the sort.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:28 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Emzamination wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

After the act 2 scene, she says that you shouldn't become attached, you have the option of agreeing but it is not forced upon you.

Different dialogue, same outcome, point proven.

That's nonsense.  Yes, Isabela says you shouldn't become attached, because Isabela fears commitment.  That has nothing to do with anything beong forced on the player.

The player then has the option to voice agreement, voice disagreement, or offer no comment.  Openly disagreeing with Isabela upsets her, and ends the relationship.  Again, that's just how Isabela is.  But none of those options require that Hawke actually approves of how Isabela approaches relationships.

Then, as mentioned, you can eventually form a lasting bond with Isabela.  You're not forced to do anything.

I don't understand why you're complaining, unless you think that you have to choose the Flirt options to maintain a romance, and that everything Hawke says is necessarily something Hawke believes, and that if Hawke ever has an opinion about something Hawke absolutely must voice it.

But none of those are true.

[berelinde]

Are we going to ignore the way friendship/rivalry altered the DA2 romances, or is that irrelevant? A lot of the dialogue was different based on whether Hawke was a friend or a rival.

[Huntress]

Androme wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Okay so, I'm following along, but... what is this "personal romance bias" stuff?

The one flirtation tone pushing the protagonist in one romantic direction.

I thought Hawke just wanted to ****?

edit:
lol now that i think about it, Hawke, female and male is a goddamn sex psychopath

Thats not right, hawke tooks 3 years for 1 night stand, and then waited for 3 more years..
if anything Hawke is a very patient character.

Modifié par Huntress, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:34 .