That's something they need to focus on. The Reapers are too big and too alien to truly be good villains, and TIM was too complex and ambiguous to be one. So instead of trying to make them into a mustache twirling villain, focus on their other strengths and stick to grey vs gray morally ambiguous ones.
Hmm... if grey vs gray works, why wouldn't someone complex and ambiguous work? Or is the problem with TIM that he resolved into Just Plain Evil by the end of the series?
Don't forget completely new fighting technieques, that have never been mentioned before , being as*pulled in order to beat the newest foe. *shudder*
Or an entire episode being nothing but charging up your new superpower (which always seems to involve yelling really loud) or being nothing but inner monologue.
Sure, Sion and Nihilus aren't great, but they're better than Malak. And Kreia/Traya is on another magnitude.
Hey, the Sion boss "fight" is one of the best ones I've ever played.
Or an entire episode being nothing but charging up your new superpower (which always seems to involve yelling really loud) or being nothing but inner monologue.
Two weeks of watching Goku make a Spirit Bomb the size of a small moon, then miss Freeza...
What a show, I love it.
Two weeks of watching Goku make a Spirit Bomb the size of a small moon, then miss Freeza...
What a show, I love it.
re: Title -- better not to, IMO. Stick with small-scale, ME2-style plotlines.
Atton is better than Carth
Mira is better than Juhani
Admittedy, Jolee is far better than the Disciple
Visas and Mission are good, just in different ways.
G0-T0 is certainly no worse than Zaalbar. (Can't say for Hanharr, as I've never actually played with him.)
And the Handmaiden is better than Juhani
TSL never established Revan as like a god. Yeah, Kreia said that looking at Revan was like looking into the heart of the force, but looking at the exile was like looking into the death of it. Those two aren't comparable. And as a character, the Exile has a better story arc anyway. (Even when you play as "Revan," you're not really playing as him. One plays as different person in the same body.)
Maybe all the squadmates hate you if you go darkside, but at least in a "good guy" playthrough, all the Jedi followers are fond of you.
If Revan is godlike, then what is the Exile? Sure, Revan was more powerful before the Battle of Malachor V, but afterward, after the Exile has absorbed the force from all the people he's killed, completely on accident, who's really stronger? From the strength of feats alone, the Exile trained four padawans, defeated three Sith Lords, along with a lot of others in Trayus academy, and could have even taken on three Jedi Master one on three and won.
Sure, Sion and Nihilus aren't great, but they're better than Malak. And Kreia/Traya is on another magnitude.
Disagree, I like Carth and I like Atton. Carth's personality is perfectly understandable. I never understood why people thought he was whiny.
Everything is better than Juhani.
And Jolee is better than any squadmate in KotOR II that isn't HK-47 or Mandalore.
Visas was... bland. There was really nothing to her at all. At least Mission was a naive kid with personality.
G0-T0 was awesome: A droid that becomes a criminal mastermind? Awesome. Better than Zaalbar never saying anything except on Kashyyyk.
I think the better comparison would be the Handmaiden and Bastila... There's no contest there. Even I shouldn't have to tell you that Bastila wipes the floor with the Handmaiden.
Seriously? Nobody in the galaxy could get enough of how powerful and strong Revan was. There's a reason he's considered not only the most powerful Jedi of the age (Disney nuking canon not withstanding), but remembered as one of the most powerful Jedi in the history of the Order, one of the most powerful and influential Sith Lords in the history of that Order, and one of the most powerful Force Practitioners in the history of the Galaxy. Granted, the Exile is as well, but not on the level of Revan. Seriously, outside the Skywalker family and a few select individuals, Revan is one of the greatest. And KotOR II doesn't let you forget it. It really doesn't. Everyone, everywhere knows about Revan, and how great and powerful he was both as a Jedi and as a Sith Lord. And if you're looking at feats, then take a look at what happened on Dromund Kaas in the novel. Meetra Surik and Scourge were both getting walloped hard by Darth Nyriss. And in comes a severely malnourished Revan who's been held in a dungeon and kept on drugs for 3 years and he comes in and effortlessly vaporizes her with the same force lightning that she's been casually torturing the Exile and Scourge with. Even the Sith Emperor felt he was a greater singular threat than every Jedi in the galaxy and indeed the entire Republic. The Sith Emperor. The guy who made the Exile's Force Wound on Malachor V look like a dent in tank. And Revan was able to hurt the Sith Emperor. He was actually able to ****** off the Emperor. That is an achievement in and of itself.
Nihilus was arguably the most powerful of the Triumvirate. Sion wasn't particularly powerful, just immortal since his rage and pain kept his body together. Traya was more of an intellectual warrior. While powerful, her best weapon wasn't the Force, but her mind. Otherwise, she wouldn't have been trounced by Sion and Nihilus. Nihilus is the only one I'd put up against Malak.
Hmm... if grey vs gray works, why wouldn't someone complex and ambiguous work? Or is the problem with TIM that he resolved into Just Plain Evil by the end of the series?
In ME3, yeah, they devolved a lot of the writing into hamfisted black and white style conflicts, and only reintroduced the grey vs gray concept towards the end in regards to TIM and the Reapers.
Despite my preference for ambiguous morality and ethics in the game, it doesn't work for the Reapers. They're too alien and too much of a force of nature to be evil, but also to have any kind of logical or reasonable goal to make them antagonists. As I said, them being what they are makes black and white morality not work, and it makes ambiguous morality not work. There is no morality to them. You fight them, or you die. That's all there is to it. And the game tries to hard to make them more than that.
Guest_Magick_*
@MassivelyEffective0730 Are those star wars game really good on pc?
@MassivelyEffective0730 Are those star wars game really good on pc?
They are.
PC is actually the only way to play KotOR2, because you need the Restored Content Mod. As far as I know, there is no way to mod the console or iPad versions.
Visas was... bland. There was really nothing to her at all. At least Mission was a naive kid with personality.
I think the better comparison would be the Handmaiden and Bastila... There's no contest there. Even I shouldn't have to tell you that Bastila wipes the floor with the Handmaiden.
Seriously? Nobody in the galaxy could get enough of how powerful and strong Revan was. There's a reason he's considered not only the most powerful Jedi of the age (Disney nuking canon not withstanding), but remembered as one of the most powerful Jedi in the history of the Order, one of the most powerful and influential Sith Lords in the history of that Order, and one of the most powerful Force Practitioners in the history of the Galaxy. Granted, the Exile is as well, but not on the level of Revan. Seriously, outside the Skywalker family and a few select individuals, Revan is one of the greatest. And KotOR II doesn't let you forget it. It really doesn't. Everyone, everywhere knows about Revan, and how great and powerful he was both as a Jedi and as a Sith Lord. And if you're looking at feats, then take a look at what happened on Dromund Kaas in the novel. Meetra Surik and Scourge were both getting walloped hard by Darth Nyriss. And in comes a severely malnourished Revan who's been held in a dungeon and kept on drugs for 3 years and he comes in and effortlessly vaporizes her with the same force lightning that she's been casually torturing the Exile and Scourge with. Even the Sith Emperor felt he was a greater singular threat than every Jedi in the galaxy and indeed the entire Republic. The Sith Emperor. The guy who made the Exile's Force Wound on Malachor V look like a dent in tank. And Revan was able to hurt the Sith Emperor. He was actually able to ****** off the Emperor. That is an achievement in and of itself.
Nihilus was arguably the most powerful of the Triumvirate. Sion wasn't particularly powerful, just immortal since his rage and pain kept his body together. Traya was more of an intellectual warrior. While powerful, her best weapon wasn't the Force, but her mind. Otherwise, she wouldn't have been trounced by Sion and Nihilus. Nihilus is the only one I'd put up against Malak.
I thought Visas had some really good stuff to her, at least if near the end of the game if you got her influence high enough.
I was thinking Kreia was better with Bastila, and Kreia is better written. They're both the deuteragonists, and what not.
Revan and the Exile are not comparable. I agree, Revan was naturally stronger, probably by a lot, than the Exile was, before the Battle of Malachor V. Then the Exile became the wound in the force, and if you played with the restored content mod, this is how s/he managed to connect back with the force. The power the Exile held after defeating the triumvirate wasn't his own, it was the power he gained after siphoning the force from everyone that was killed around him. So it's not clear how the strong the Exile was after Trayus Academy, and it's hard to compare the two.
Kreia wouldn't beat Malak, but the only way the Exile beat Sion was through Dun Moch, and I don't think Malak is the most charismatic man in the galaxy. Nihilus would eat Malak for breakfast.
I don't like the novel, because first off, my canonical light side exile was a male who would not have gone after Revan in the Unknown regions, for many reasons. First off, deep down, he blames the pain he felt during the activation of the Mass Shadow Generator partially on Revan, for not having the balls to end the war he dragged them all into himself. He wasn't friends with Revan, and he certainly doesn't feel any obligation to go chasing after him. He would've stayed behind to restart what was left of the Jedi order with Bastila and his Lost Jedi, with his own teachings. And this isn't to start on my canonical dark side female, who planned to start her own Sith Empire and rule the galaxy.
The novel was written only to justify the MMO, IMO.
If I had my way, I'd have KotOR 3 have the import system, and for the player to be able to import both his Revan and Exile to the game. Either Revan felt what happened at the core of Malachor and went back to investigate, or canonically the Exile went out to look for him. Then you could have a game with two PCs, for an interesting mechanic.
You touched on something here that I really hope they implement in a future mass effect game - morality is subjective, and entirely dependent upon a given culture, which itself is dependent upon the biology of a species. Intercultural differences in moral views may be shocking to individuals within that species, but this likely pales in comparison to attempting to understand, relate, or otherwise appeal to the ethics of a truly and profoundly alien species.In ME3, yeah, they devolved a lot of the writing into hamfisted black and white style conflicts, and only reintroduced the grey vs gray concept towards the end in regards to TIM and the Reapers.
Despite my preference for ambiguous morality and ethics in the game, it doesn't work for the Reapers. They're too alien and too much of a force of nature to be evil, but also to have any kind of logical or reasonable goal to make them antagonists. As I said, them being what they are makes black and white morality not work, and it makes ambiguous morality not work. There is no morality to them. You fight them, or you die. That's all there is to it. And the game tries to hard to make them more than that.
I thought Visas had some really good stuff to her, at least if near the end of the game if you got her influence high enough.
I was thinking Kreia was better with Bastila, and Kreia is better written. They're both the deuteragonists, and what not.
Revan and the Exile are not comparable. I agree, Revan was naturally stronger, probably by a lot, than the Exile was, before the Battle of Malachor V. Then the Exile became the wound in the force, and if you played with the restored content mod, this is how s/he managed to connect back with the force. The power the Exile held after defeating the triumvirate wasn't his own, it was the power he gained after siphoning the force from everyone that was killed around him. So it's not clear how the strong the Exile was after Trayus Academy, and it's hard to compare the two.
Kreia wouldn't beat Malak, but the only way the Exile beat Sion was through Dun Moch, and I don't think Malak is the most charismatic man in the galaxy. Nihilus would eat Malak for breakfast.
I don't like the novel, because first off, my canonical light side exile was a male who would not have gone after Revan in the Unknown regions, for many reasons. First off, deep down, he blames the pain he felt during the activation of the Mass Shadow Generator partially on Revan, for not having the balls to end the war he dragged them all into himself. He wasn't friends with Revan, and he certainly doesn't feel any obligation to go chasing after him. He would've stayed behind to restart what was left of the Jedi order with Bastila and his Lost Jedi, with his own teachings. And this isn't to start on my canonical dark side female, who planned to start her own Sith Empire and rule the galaxy.
The novel was written only to justify the MMO, IMO.
If I had my way, I'd have KotOR 3 have the import system, and for the player to be able to import both his Revan and Exile to the game. Either Revan felt what happened at the core of Malachor and went back to investigate, or canonically the Exile went out to look for him. Then you could have a game with two PCs, for an interesting mechanic.
Well regardless, they established canon long before the MMO was released. As far back as 2006, the Exile was canonically female. All the novel did was canonize her name 'Meetra Surik' (though her appearance was canonized as well as being fair skinned with short, sandy-colored hair with blue eyes, and she was a Jedi Guardian with a cyan-colored single blade lightsaber, and she was light-sided), so you're delving into headcanon territory by deviating from that. So I guess we're going to have to close off from that discussion though.
This was her canonical face, though I wish they made the blonde the canon face.
Well regardless, they established canon long before the MMO was released. As far back as 2006, the Exile was canonically female. All the novel did was canonize her name 'Meetra Surik' (though her appearance was canonized as well as being fair skinned with short, sandy-colored hair with blue eyes, and she was a Jedi Guardian with a cyan-colored single blade lightsaber, and she was light-sided), so you're delving into headcanon territory by deviating from that. So I guess we're going to have to close off from that discussion though.
This was her canonical face, though I wish they made the blonde the canon face.
You mean the blond one with the bun? 
You mean the blond one with the bun?
Yeah, she was the one I always played as. Granted, I don't mind the one they have now, but I always pictured the Exile as a blonde more than a brunette (or a lighter blonde over the darker hair color they gave her).
Guest_Magick_*
I feel so out of place when it comes to devoted RP story players. To OP, why not an anti-alien organization that focuses on dominating the galaxy and oppressing all other species (For Humanatee). Element zero over usage causes a rift in the galaxy opening a black hole to some other dimension of highly advanced species that escaped the reapers during they're cycle an have come to conquer us all. Or due to our galaxy resources depleting we go out an explore 'dark space' only to discover new untapped systems that still exist in our galaxy leading to new possibilities. These are just ideas floating around. No need to get all aggressive against me. Let me know what you all think.
Yeah, she was the one I always played as. Granted, I don't mind the one they have now, but I always pictured the Exile as a blonde more than a brunette (or a lighter blonde over the darker hair color they gave her).
Now, did you play the male as the dude with the hippie beard?
If I had one wish, it'd be for a TOR retcon and an actual KotOR 3 with an import system.
Now, did you play the male as the dude with the hippie beard?
If I had one wish, it'd be for a TOR retcon and an actual KotOR 3 with an import system.
I only played a male Exile twice. I played the redhead and the blonde dude. I'm not much for facial hair or long hair.
I only played a male Exile twice. I played the redhead and the blonde dude. I'm not much for facial hair or long hair.
I was just thinking
"This dude's been exiled for almost a decade, wandering around aimlessly. I doubt he has had much opportunity to groom himself."
Played him as laid back and relaxed as possible. That was my favorite playthrough.
Disagree, I like Carth and I like Atton. Carth's personality is perfectly understandable. I never understood why people thought he was whiny.
I was just thinking
"This dude's been exiled for almost a decade, wandering around aimlessly. I doubt he has had much opportunity to groom himself."
Played him as laid back and relaxed as possible. That was my favorite playthrough.
I've sometimes suspected that Sbarge's voice simply sets some people off. He is relatively high-pitched, and Kaidan also gets complaints that don't seem founded in anything real.
Also, a lot of Carth's dialogues are about his personal issues. Some players seem to forget that these dialogues are triggered by the PC rather than Carth, and assume that Carth is constantly complaining about his past rather than being dragged into talking about it. I don't really understand the mechanism, although maybe it's easier to forget the PC's lines because they're unvoiced.
I'd say Carth's personal issues are relatively understandable, though there are points where he can get a bit anxious and irritating at the player; granted, you can call him out on this in the game, so it's actually presented as a character flaw. But yes, you actually have to do a lot to get Carth to really open up about his life and his problems, which again, you can call him out for in the game. And as I said, his personal issues are pretty traumatic; he was betrayed by his mentor and idol (as well as heroes Revan and Malak), who sold out his homeworld by giving the Sith the codes for the Telosian defense grid and basically turning the planet into a radioactive cinder. And Carth's wife was killed in the attack, and his son abducted by the Sith (though Carth also believed his son to be among the dead as well, which of course does not lessen the burden he holds). As well, he's been fighting for the losing side for a while now and is growing tired of losing battle after battle. His disposition and personality are perfectly understandable.
I'd love to see ME4 roll out a Saren/Loghain/Letho type villain. Speaking of Saren, ME1 would have been a fun game even if Saren's motives were his own, and there was no Reaper reveal.
Repeat Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
On every single part of every planet in the galaxy.
Yeah, my first Exile was Space Jesus -- I picked that head for pretty much those reasons.
It was my third, and I made him as much like the Dude from the Big Lebowski as I could.
Probably the most fun I've had.
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