519 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

There are better guns than the carnifex. The reason ppl use carnifex so much is because it's more available. How is a weapon OP because it is more common than a better rarer weapon?

No one uses it in platinum.

This is yet another pointless nerf.

[AleHanSolo]

 The nerfs you are planning to impose show just how little you know of how the game is played.

The piranha is used not because of it's power but because it has such a low weight and is great on classes  such as the fury, the paladin, and many other casters/cqc characters. The GI will hardly be affected by such nerf, in fact the smaller clip size might even force GI's to use cloak more often thus increasing their damage output (I haven't done any math to prove this, this is just my speculation).

The carnifex nerf is even more bizarre  to me because this will hardly affect its popularity. This nerf will mostly hurt those with incomplete manifests and even then so will change a players cooldown from (for the sake of an argument) 200% to 180%, which is like going from a 3.2 sec. CD to a 3.3 sec. CD . So why bother nerfing?

This is a pointless nerf which is just going to be annoyance rather than a deterent. The nerf won't fix the problem or decrease the weapons' popularity; balancing unpopular weapons to a competative level will fix this issue.

[PaperAlien]

These nerfs are actually reasonable. Except now we have to explain how the Paladin is somehow lighter than the Carnifex XD.

[Heldarion]

AleHanSolo wrote...

The GI will hardly be affected by such nerf

I'm glad somebody pointed this out again and I hope Eric Fagnan reads this. GI is pretty much the king of all imbalance with whatever weapon he gets his hands on.

[Lynx7725]

What I'll like to know is the rational for the debuff on the Carnifex.

The Piranha I can see a rational. Basically it's gotten to the point where whenever I need a shottie, I reach for the Piranha. When it's like that, there's usually something too good about the gun, and is not good for variety in gameplay. Bears out in my PUG experience, with it and the Reegar being quite common shotties.

I do think the problem is more with the Smart Choke than with the Piranha inherently.

Carnifex though, I don't get it. It's not a go-to pistol for me -- that varies between Phalanx, Paladin and Carnifex. It's a good gun but not a great gun; I use it for the damage, but the Phalanx sometimes work out better for me. I also don't see it being used overly in PUG. What's the reason for it?

[Lynx7725]

Heldarion wrote...

AleHanSolo wrote...

The GI will hardly be affected by such nerf

I'm glad somebody pointed this out again and I hope Eric Fagnan reads this. GI is pretty much the king of all imbalance with whatever weapon he gets his hands on.

My opinion is also similar. The challenge herein is how to tune the GI in a way that doesn't keelhaul it and break its back.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

increase carniflex damage

[JC_aka_fps_john]

It's been said before, main the problem with the Piranha is its weight. It's the go-to weapon for caster classes who like to play at close quarters because it's so light. A weight increase to around Reegar or maybe GPS level wouldnt be unreasonable, so as to make casters think twice about it.

Spare ammo could also do with reducing. I'm thinking about a comparison with the AA-12 from MW2, full auto shotgun hindered to an extent by a lack of ammo

Neither of these things will really affect how the GI or Destroyer use this gun though. Their main benefit is the accuracy bonus, overcoming the big weakness of the Piranha, and they dont care about weight. Would it be possible to make weapon accuracy bonuses not apply to shotgun pellet spread?

[White Flag]

Very reasonable adjustments, I would say. Not sure what all the fuzz was about.

[spjeanfritz]

Eric i have 2 questions :
1- Why do you want to nerf a gun in a coop game such has ME3 ?
2- How do i hurt any other players with my piranha or carnifex the way they are right now ?

We are juste killing geth, cerberus and reapers.

JUST STOP NERFING GUNS PLEASE !!! Can you focus instead in fixing the Hurrican Odd clip Bug

[Impulse and Compulse]

I think the Carnifex is garbage. Why would you guys want to nerf it?

Still plenty of things that need buffing more than the Carnifex needs to make my powers take slightly longer to recharge.

[Psycho Pisces]

The Piranha adjustment is kind of pointless, It doesn't affect the GI one bit. If anything it makes it easier for them to utilize the weapon efficiently. What it does hinder, is everyone else in the game.

From casters, who are looking for a light weight weapon that has the punch to finish off something their biotics or tech didn't kill. To Soldiers who don't have u/r's maxed to be efficient. The Piranha filled that void, and it filled it nicely.

You're hurting the playerbase by refusing to address the core fundamental issues that required your "changes" in the first place. Every weapon you release that does any kind of decent damage in a layman's hands... Will decimate in the hands of the GI. Either you let the guns be, and realize this is a Co-Op an all these whinging people need to learn how to play a co-op with others... Or you rip the arms off of the GI and beat it to death with them.

Otherwise this fight will go on, and on, and on in the playerbase and NO ONE will EVER be happy.

[nicethugbert]

PaperAlien wrote...

These nerfs are actually reasonable. Except now we have to explain how the Paladin is somehow lighter than the Carnifex XD.

It's ultra rare.  But, that also points to why this nerf is worthless.  They're just going to annoy the masses of ME3 MP players who struggle to get their carnifex to X let alone getting a Paladin I.

Can't stress enough how pointless this nerf is.

One of the things that makes the carnifex appealing is headshotting.  No one is going to switch to a faster firing lower damage weapon because the carnifex got heavier even if both weapons have the same DPS.  It. Is. Not. Going. To. Happen.  You spend less time out of cover with a slower firing higher damage weapon and you get the satisfaction of headshotting.  It comes across as more skillful.

So, again, this is a pointless pointless pointless nerf.  It will do nothing but ****** ppl off.

The piranha nerf is like the Krysae, pointless.   People are moving on to other weapons on their own.  No need to push them there.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 20 septembre 2012 - 09:47 .

[nicethugbert]

Lynx7725 wrote...

Bears out in my PUG experience, with it and the Reegar being quite common shotties.

There will always be something more common no matter what you do.  That is the result of weapon tiers.  As long as weapons are dissimilar, some weapons will always be more common.  So, there is no point to these nerfs.

[MaxShine]

Heldarion wrote...

AleHanSolo wrote...

The GI will hardly be affected by such nerf

I'm glad somebody pointed this out again and I hope Eric Fagnan reads this. GI is pretty much the king of all imbalance with whatever weapon he gets his hands on.

Agreed. GI is the root of weapon balance problems

[Lynx7725]

nicethugbert wrote...

Lynx7725 wrote...
Bears out in my PUG experience, with it and the Reegar being quite common shotties.

There will always be something more common no matter what you do.  That is the result of weapon tiers.  As long as weapons are dissimilar, some weapons will always be more common.  So, there is no point to these nerfs.

You're missing my point. If the distribution of shotguns used is spread amongst multiple different shotguns, it isn't terrible -- there's variety in the gameplay and no one weapon overly dominate. That's a good thing.

If one or two weapons are hogging all the usage, it typically indicates there is some design issues with the shotguns in questions, or with the others. The typical outcome is convergence of weapons used and thus stagnation of playstyle, which is a deathknell for any game. There is likely a balancing need. The point of weapons balancing (IMO) is to have dissimilar weapons, but yet having all or most of the weapons useful enough for different playstyles, to accomodate the largest possible segments of player base.

Having said all the above, what it really means is that the developers need to take a closer look at the data and usage across the various factors (class, difficulty, enemies) and decide if there is actually an issue. Eric and team seems to have done so and deem there to be actually an issue.

[Heldarion]

Lynx7725 wrote...
Having said all the above, what it really means is that the developers need to take a closer look at the data and usage across the various factors (class, difficulty, enemies) and decide if there is actually an issue. Eric and team seems to have done so and deem there to be actually an issue.

If they truly did that, they'd have figured out by now that GETH INFILTRATOR is the underlying problem. They haven't (yet).

Modifié par Heldarion, 20 septembre 2012 - 10:39 .

[Lynx7725]

Heldarion wrote...

Lynx7725 wrote...
Having said all the above, what it really means is that the developers need to take a closer look at the data and usage across the various factors (class, difficulty, enemies) and decide if there is actually an issue. Eric and team seems to have done so and deem there to be actually an issue.

If they truly did that, they'd have figured out by now that GETH INFILTRATOR is the underlying problem. They haven't (yet).

I won't actually say that. The problem I see with the GI is that it's kind of finely balanced; tweak it and it can slide into the junk pile faster than Cerbie Troopies rushing to stomp downed players.

[Biotic_Warlock]

If you are going to increase carnifex encumbrance, please also increase paladin (the gun) encumbered

[llandwynwyn]

There is no reason to make the Carni more heavy. Leave it alone, only new players use the Carnifex anyway,

[Tonymac]

Lynx7725 wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Lynx7725 wrote...
Bears out in my PUG experience, with it and the Reegar being quite common shotties.

There will always be something more common no matter what you do.  That is the result of weapon tiers.  As long as weapons are dissimilar, some weapons will always be more common.  So, there is no point to these nerfs.

You're missing my point. If the distribution of shotguns used is spread amongst multiple different shotguns, it isn't terrible -- there's variety in the gameplay and no one weapon overly dominate. That's a good thing.

If one or two weapons are hogging all the usage, it typically indicates there is some design issues with the shotguns in questions, or with the others. The typical outcome is convergence of weapons used and thus stagnation of playstyle, which is a deathknell for any game. There is likely a balancing need. The point of weapons balancing (IMO) is to have dissimilar weapons, but yet having all or most of the weapons useful enough for different playstyles, to accomodate the largest possible segments of player base.

Having said all the above, what it really means is that the developers need to take a closer look at the data and usage across the various factors (class, difficulty, enemies) and decide if there is actually an issue. Eric and team seems to have done so and deem there to be actually an issue.

I'm not sure what I believe about these guys doing all of this 'nerfing madness'.  If I want ot be able to use a gun, then let me use it!  Stop trying to force me to use junk guns that we had on day 1 of the demo by nerfing all the decent stuff!  If everyone uses the Carniflex or a Pirahna - then so be it!  We earned our way up to this tier of guns because its the only stuff left worth shooting. 

Why is it so hard to comprehend that we want guns that are light, accurate, and hard hitting with fast reload times and large ammo capacity and clip size?  Why is it that every top of the line gun is constantly eyed by these guys as they run their thumb down the machete?

Everything about this game is a penalty.  Carrying guns for every situation makes me have no power useage.  I run the same speed (lol), but my biotics and tech powers are slow.  Maybe the gun weight affects my omni tool battery?  I'm not sure.  But rather than balance resonable stuff like that weight makes you slower, they make the weight affect dumb stuff that makes no sense - like how often I can drain shields, or use biotics. 

Why not leave the guns alone and balance things that would make more sense and vary playstyles more?  Why not leave the guns alone so that we can have fun.  As it is - we have to wonder about every nerf.  Some are game breakers.  Some are buisances.  None are welcome.

[Heldarion]

Lynx7725 wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Lynx7725 wrote...
Having said all the above, what it really means is that the developers need to take a closer look at the data and usage across the various factors (class, difficulty, enemies) and decide if there is actually an issue. Eric and team seems to have done so and deem there to be actually an issue.

If they truly did that, they'd have figured out by now that GETH INFILTRATOR is the underlying problem. They haven't (yet).

I won't actually say that. The problem I see with the GI is that it's kind of finely balanced; tweak it and it can slide into the junk pile faster than Cerbie Troopies rushing to stomp downed players.

How is it kind of finely balanced, if it can take pretty much ANY decent and gun and make it better than on any other class?
Talon, Claymore, Piranha, Krysae.

GI has, most likely, the best possible combination of offensive combat skills and passives, offset only by the low HP and penatly to shields, which isn't much of a problem if you can cloak out of danger (doesn't always work, due to amazing detection mechanics of mobs...).

We all saw what happened to Krysae, and Piranha, coincidentally, is being looked at.

Modifié par Heldarion, 20 septembre 2012 - 11:16 .

[Sable Dove]

 The Piranha I get, even if it's a misguided sentiment behind it. They want to nerf it because it's popular, when they should be buffing the other shotguns to compete with it, and, more importantly, to compete with powers.

The Carnifex I just don't get at all. It's middle of the pack for weight, while having the lowest DPS of any pistol. The only reason I can see using it is on an AA against Cerberus to headshot Phantoms. And only if you don't have a decent-level Paladin or Arc Pistol.

I suspect that Bioware has no idea why, but they see that these guns are more popular, and thus should be nerfed in some way. Really, the better balance (assuming they want weapons to remain far inferior to powers) would be to make the Piranha heavier, and to leave the Carnifex be, if not buff it.

[vitaro86]

I can live with the Piranha nerf, but changing the Carnifex is completely unnecessary.

[Lynx7725]

Heldarion wrote...

Lynx7725 wrote...
I won't actually say that. The problem I see with the GI is that it's kind of finely balanced; tweak it and it can slide into the junk pile faster than Cerbie Troopies rushing to stomp downed players.

How is it kind of finely balanced, if it can take pretty much ANY decent and gun and make it better than on any other class?
Talon, Claymore, Piranha, Krysae.

GI has, most likely, the best possible combination of offensive combat skills and passives, offset only by the low HP and penatly to shields, which isn't much of a problem if you can cloak out of danger (doesn't always work, due to amazing detection mechanics of mobs...).

We all saw what happened to Krysae, and Piranha, coincidentally, is being looked at.

I agree with what you wrote. GI has a very good combination of skills and passives. These skills and passives, as you said, take any semi-decent gun and make it better... to say nothing of good guns.

Thing is.. what to change that won't have unintended consequences? Change Tact Cloak and the rest of the Infiltrators get hit. Change Geth Passives or Hunter Vision and the Geth Engineer gets hit. Change Prox Mine and the Salifiltrator and Turian Soldier get hit.

Not to mention, the GI works well because of the combination of skillset; Cloak for positioning and damage boost, Hunter Vision for situation awareness, speed and movement, passives for damage boosts, etc.. The way I see it, the combination is really at the raggedly leading edge of performance. Detune any one of them, and the GI spirals into uselessness. Can't get enough damage to do jack, can't move fast enough to take advantage of X-ray vision, can't see far enough in X-ray to be useful.. etc. etc.

That's what I meant by finely balanced. It's actually quite a beautiful sight to see, a class/ kit tuned to near perfection. Too bad it's causing problems (IMO) for other classes/ kits.