Carnifex does not need weight gain.
I think alot of people assume that everyone has lvlX rares.
Alot of people dont. (oh and theres another crap rare gun to dilute the pool down)
Piranha and Carnifex Balance Change Preview
Débuté par
Eric Fagnan
, sept. 19 2012 05:16
Retour en haut
#477
Posté 23 septembre 2012 - 05:14
Horace530
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I'm ok with the Piranha, but the Carnifex now at [1.2-0.7] is too heavy, at least make it 1.1 - 0.6
which pairs with the Arc Pistol, the Talon and the Scorpion. Making it 1.2-07 will nerf lots of popular build out that, and this will nerf many Silver-Gold players cause they won't have a better replacement such as the Talon.
Instead Please look into the N7 eagle and crusader, this two guns are apparently UP, you see this two guns are UR, they're meant to be good, so stop nerfing and buff those need to be buffed, mostly the Typhoon, restore the Damage amplifier to 2.0 or at least 1.75 please.
which pairs with the Arc Pistol, the Talon and the Scorpion. Making it 1.2-07 will nerf lots of popular build out that, and this will nerf many Silver-Gold players cause they won't have a better replacement such as the Talon.
Instead Please look into the N7 eagle and crusader, this two guns are apparently UP, you see this two guns are UR, they're meant to be good, so stop nerfing and buff those need to be buffed, mostly the Typhoon, restore the Damage amplifier to 2.0 or at least 1.75 please.
#478
Posté 23 septembre 2012 - 08:10
mgc1971
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Piranha is one of the few weapons that can be used on platinum/gold matches.Bioware did a great job creating this shotgun, so we, the regular players, being stupid as we are, started using it on a regular basis.
It is light, effective and with high DPS. We have been given a good weapon, so we use it.And the gun becomes very popular.Good job, BW, you nailed it....but wait......instead of thinking like this, BW decides to nerf the gun so the players stop using it....WTF????? Where's the logic on that?
If you want us to choose another shotgun, why dont you increase the rate of fire of the wraith or increase the damage of the simitar, for example? Isn't that a better solution?
That fixation with nerfing is borderline ridiculous IMO.Please BW ,let us enjoy the game while we can, because as much as I love it, the lack of new game modes and new content is killing it faster than I thought.Instead of nerfing the good weapons, why dont you fix those few ones that could benefit from a small change to make them useful ?
It is light, effective and with high DPS. We have been given a good weapon, so we use it.And the gun becomes very popular.Good job, BW, you nailed it....but wait......instead of thinking like this, BW decides to nerf the gun so the players stop using it....WTF????? Where's the logic on that?
If you want us to choose another shotgun, why dont you increase the rate of fire of the wraith or increase the damage of the simitar, for example? Isn't that a better solution?
That fixation with nerfing is borderline ridiculous IMO.Please BW ,let us enjoy the game while we can, because as much as I love it, the lack of new game modes and new content is killing it faster than I thought.Instead of nerfing the good weapons, why dont you fix those few ones that could benefit from a small change to make them useful ?
Modifié par mgc1971, 23 septembre 2012 - 08:11 .
#479
Posté 23 septembre 2012 - 08:43
Medicate
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you are right. i only use the piranha on gold or platinum. if i play silver or bornze i use the weaopns i usually never use and which are basically don't have enough damage for gold enemies.
instead of nerfing everything (or sometimes buffing) so many weapons they put in the game, they should think about that BEFORE they add it to the game. it feels that they aren't really testing the guns before they give them out..
Piranha, Typhoon, Krysae were to strong -> now they want to make them crapy as hell
Weapons like the Argus and even some URs are so weak that you can't really play them on high difficulty...
instead of nerfing everything (or sometimes buffing) so many weapons they put in the game, they should think about that BEFORE they add it to the game. it feels that they aren't really testing the guns before they give them out..
Piranha, Typhoon, Krysae were to strong -> now they want to make them crapy as hell
Weapons like the Argus and even some URs are so weak that you can't really play them on high difficulty...
#480
Posté 23 septembre 2012 - 09:51
kingvenom41392
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what about the piece of crap called the argus i used 700k credits to max to realize it needs massive stability boosts or hugging cover to use then using stability to realize the weapon still isnt strong enough to be usefull as a three shot burst
#481
Posté 23 septembre 2012 - 10:15
Cthulus
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Oddly enough, it seems the Carnifex has gotten lighter, perhaps. It seems my characters can take it and still be at 200%... How strange.
#482
Posté 23 septembre 2012 - 10:55
MrGoldarm
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I rarely see the carny, i don't see a reason to nerf a pure caster weapon.
Piranha deserves a nerf though.
Piranha deserves a nerf though.
#483
Posté 23 septembre 2012 - 12:57
Bob_Morane_1980
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I don't want to be rude, but Eric Fagnan, do you play on Platinum or Gold difficulties before nerfing your weapons? Most of the time, I play my Batarian with the Kishock Harpoon and the Wraith (not the best weapons in Platinum). Maybe I love pain, but if I talk only about shotgun, most of them are worthless and against a phantom, the Wraith shoot like a peas shooter and I finish melee her because it's more powerful. Less clip for the Piranha mean worthless in some point. Maybe the Destroyer and the GI players still use it, but for others ... Please buff the others shotguns if you want, but don't nerf the Piranha, you will make it only worthy for Bronze or Silver.
#484
Posté 23 septembre 2012 - 04:28
TheNiddo
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The Piranha doesn't really need another nerf. Let it be what it's supposed to be in peace: the best shotgun to use on Gold/Platinum. Not only is such a title fine, it's always going to exist. And as Gold is probably the most popular difficulty to play on, it's always going to have that roll. If you want to spread out the shotgun usage more, there are more fair ways to go about it.
Look at the Crusader for example, you guys have been buffing it multiple times and it's still rather pathetic according to the community. Pure damage buffs isn't going to do it until it's through the roof. Try something else with it. Give it a large headshot multiplier buff for example, or slightly decrease its recoil + give it a slight RoF buff. Either further increase its roll in the game (shotgun sniper), or let it compete better with other shotguns in terms of DPS in ways other than raw damage. Heck, do both of those things and it might be worth the UR title AND get some people off of the Piranha.
Another, basic way to try to spread out the percents some more is to give the Claymore and the Geth Plasma Shotgun some minor buffs. Give the former a little bit more damage and give the later a weight and projectile speed buff. That way, if people want raw damage in a single shot the Claymore looks more appealing, and if people want a lighter yet still powerful shotgun, the Geth Plasma Shotgun is at least worth considering if you have it maxed out.
As for the Carnifex I agree with Horace: bring it in line with the Talon and others, not heavier than them. Or just not bother with nerfing the weapon, it doesn't really need it. Give the Paladin 4 shots in a clip back and the Carnifex usage will drop.
Look at the Crusader for example, you guys have been buffing it multiple times and it's still rather pathetic according to the community. Pure damage buffs isn't going to do it until it's through the roof. Try something else with it. Give it a large headshot multiplier buff for example, or slightly decrease its recoil + give it a slight RoF buff. Either further increase its roll in the game (shotgun sniper), or let it compete better with other shotguns in terms of DPS in ways other than raw damage. Heck, do both of those things and it might be worth the UR title AND get some people off of the Piranha.
Another, basic way to try to spread out the percents some more is to give the Claymore and the Geth Plasma Shotgun some minor buffs. Give the former a little bit more damage and give the later a weight and projectile speed buff. That way, if people want raw damage in a single shot the Claymore looks more appealing, and if people want a lighter yet still powerful shotgun, the Geth Plasma Shotgun is at least worth considering if you have it maxed out.
As for the Carnifex I agree with Horace: bring it in line with the Talon and others, not heavier than them. Or just not bother with nerfing the weapon, it doesn't really need it. Give the Paladin 4 shots in a clip back and the Carnifex usage will drop.
#485
Posté 23 septembre 2012 - 09:44
Caratinoid
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Nerf carnifex? Why? Because it's used more often than what? Other UR pistols? Has it occur to you that the largest population of players doesn't have those at an acceptable level yet?
YOU ARE READING YOUR DATA WRONG!
YOU ARE READING YOUR DATA WRONG!
Modifié par Caratinoid, 23 septembre 2012 - 09:50 .
#486
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 12:31
JayCally80
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I'd leave the Carnifex alone. Its fine the way it is. Piranha nerd is OK though.
#487
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 01:00
ArtilleryPuff
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I think the Piranha has been nerfed enough. Or if you think it should still be nerfed maybe you could decrease the damage a little or increase the weight a little like previous nerfs, but I don't think you should lower the clip size of it. Also I think the Carnifex is fine the way it is.
Modifié par ArtilleryPuff, 24 septembre 2012 - 01:17 .
#488
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 02:57
Acyl
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Bioware needs to remember not everyone has weapons at X.
Anyway, I'm sure Bioware figures these changes aren't massive, so the community isn't gonna freak. But I question why the changes are needed at all. As folks have pointed out, these particular shifts probably aren't going to stop people using either weapon. They'll just be more annoyed when using those weapons, due to the meaningless and unnecessary nerf.
Besides, y'know, like a ton of other people here, my friends and I are playing a lot more Borderlands 2. Nerfs to popular guns and a lemon like the Argus aren't a good way to convince us to play ME3 more. But enh, I'm just another voice in the choir.
Anyway, I'm sure Bioware figures these changes aren't massive, so the community isn't gonna freak. But I question why the changes are needed at all. As folks have pointed out, these particular shifts probably aren't going to stop people using either weapon. They'll just be more annoyed when using those weapons, due to the meaningless and unnecessary nerf.
Besides, y'know, like a ton of other people here, my friends and I are playing a lot more Borderlands 2. Nerfs to popular guns and a lemon like the Argus aren't a good way to convince us to play ME3 more. But enh, I'm just another voice in the choir.
Modifié par Acyl, 24 septembre 2012 - 02:59 .
#489
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 06:59
ReverendBeast
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Here Here!mgc1971 wrote...
Piranha is one of the few weapons that can be used on platinum/gold matches.Bioware did a great job creating this shotgun, so we, the regular players, being stupid as we are, started using it on a regular basis.
It is light, effective and with high DPS. We have been given a good weapon, so we use it.And the gun becomes very popular.Good job, BW, you nailed it....but wait......instead of thinking like this, BW decides to nerf the gun so the players stop using it....WTF????? Where's the logic on that?
If you want us to choose another shotgun, why dont you increase the rate of fire of the wraith or increase the damage of the simitar, for example? Isn't that a better solution?
That fixation with nerfing is borderline ridiculous IMO.Please BW ,let us enjoy the game while we can, because as much as I love it, the lack of new game modes and new content is killing it faster than I thought.Instead of nerfing the good weapons, why dont you fix those few ones that could benefit from a small change to make them useful ?
Why F.... with things that ain't broke???? Maybe it's because BW wants us to use the UR weapons instead??? C'mon guys gives us(platinum)players a bone would ya???
#490
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 07:43
IntelliMoo
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Ashen Earth wrote...
I could live with this, but I'm still not convinced the Carnifex should be touched.
Ditto. Not my beloved Carnifex!!! How about just make it 5 shots then? heh
#491
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 12:41
Killigula
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The Carnifex is actually probably the weapon I would single out as the single most balanced gun in the game. That's to say that it's rarity, damage and weight all come together to create something that feels neither too good nor too bad but just right.
The fact they'd consider it too good in a game where, as has been mentioned, 95% of the weapons are essentially unusable past silver difficulty, is really sad.
As someone who plays almost exclusively on gold my weapon choices are already extremely limited and beating those few that remain with the nerf bat mercilessly while constantly buffing the adversaries so matches become slower and more tedious, is not the way to keep an increasingly stale game interesting.
If you want the waves to last longer then just have them spawn more individual enemies that are actually killable instead of assault troopers that tank point block shots to the face, or waves 7+ not spawning low level enemies at all anymore.
Maybe instead of YET ANOTHER BANSHEE we could have that Banshee we just killed respawn as 25 husks this time instead.
The fact they'd consider it too good in a game where, as has been mentioned, 95% of the weapons are essentially unusable past silver difficulty, is really sad.
As someone who plays almost exclusively on gold my weapon choices are already extremely limited and beating those few that remain with the nerf bat mercilessly while constantly buffing the adversaries so matches become slower and more tedious, is not the way to keep an increasingly stale game interesting.
If you want the waves to last longer then just have them spawn more individual enemies that are actually killable instead of assault troopers that tank point block shots to the face, or waves 7+ not spawning low level enemies at all anymore.
Maybe instead of YET ANOTHER BANSHEE we could have that Banshee we just killed respawn as 25 husks this time instead.
Modifié par Killigula, 24 septembre 2012 - 12:46 .
#492
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 01:18
Jason76
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The Carnifex is fine as it is. There's a reason why casters use this gun.
I'm playing MP to have fun and not to test out balance changes every week. I'm starting to get tired of this by now.
My brother stopped playing between balance changes because he got really sick of the nerf here, nerf there.
In other words: you are stealing the fun and make people leave because they are getting fed up. As it is, my friend list is showing many people as offline as well, hardly anyone is still playing. And that makes me sad, too! But you gotta ask yourself *why* as well.
The Carnifex is a golden gun and supposed to be for gold games and better than the Phalanx and the Predator. And for gold, it's fine as it is. How about buffing the Eagle instead? Can't say anything about the Paladin tho since I still haven't gotten it *sigh* to compare.
I'm playing MP to have fun and not to test out balance changes every week. I'm starting to get tired of this by now.
My brother stopped playing between balance changes because he got really sick of the nerf here, nerf there.
In other words: you are stealing the fun and make people leave because they are getting fed up. As it is, my friend list is showing many people as offline as well, hardly anyone is still playing. And that makes me sad, too! But you gotta ask yourself *why* as well.
The Carnifex is a golden gun and supposed to be for gold games and better than the Phalanx and the Predator. And for gold, it's fine as it is. How about buffing the Eagle instead? Can't say anything about the Paladin tho since I still haven't gotten it *sigh* to compare.
#493
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 01:18
Origin
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It is amazing how quickly the people are accepting a limitation of their rights. We already have the guns as they are today. And we have paid for it (play time or real money) a lot due to store random generator. Therefore we own them.
The only possible discussion should be about how to make them better, not worst.
The only possible discussion should be about how to make them better, not worst.
#494
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 01:48
kelly ripas bicep
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don't touch these weapons
#495
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 02:02
Zso_Zso
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These nerfs do not seem too bad.
Although, this weekend I just discovered a nice synergy which will be ruined:
I played Kroguard with Piranha hunting Atlas mechs for the operation using the cycle:
1. Biotic charge an Atlas
2. Fire piranha while walking backwards (and a bit sideways to strafe the shots of the Atlas)
3. When the clip is empty, reload cancel it with the next charge (repeat from #1)
The synergy is that the cool-down is just right for emptying the clip, but it will not work out so nice with the smaller clip size.
Although, this weekend I just discovered a nice synergy which will be ruined:
I played Kroguard with Piranha hunting Atlas mechs for the operation using the cycle:
1. Biotic charge an Atlas
2. Fire piranha while walking backwards (and a bit sideways to strafe the shots of the Atlas)
3. When the clip is empty, reload cancel it with the next charge (repeat from #1)
The synergy is that the cool-down is just right for emptying the clip, but it will not work out so nice with the smaller clip size.
#497
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 05:19
Darqwaters
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NO. NO. NO. Keep the Carniflex as it is. If you want other heavy pistols to be used, make them more interesting! Nearly all the other pistols are a death sentence on Gold and Platinum.
#498
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 06:14
TheCinC
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Hadn't seen this before..
Okay, I don't really care much about buffs and nerfs except..
Why nerf anything? Yes, I use the Piranha a lot now, but that is because it is effective, but not too heavy. Even so, it is best used at short range as its accuracy is not great. Yes, I also use the Carnifex as backup weapon on any power using classes for which it is important to have a light enough gun so that I still have 200% cooldown bonus. So I often use either the Piranha or the Carnifex, that is true. I'm thinking, that is what the stats show and that is why a gun is nerfed. If it is too popular, it is too powerful, so nerf it. Well, I gotta disagree.
I think we need more buffs.
Why? Well, for example, I used to love the Widow. On Bronze. But once I went on to Silver, Gold and now Platinum, I quickly found out any sniper rifle is virtually useless. There are so many enemies, that I can't snipe fast enough to kill them all. Never mind that many sniper rifles don't pass the enemies shields and they go in cover, regain shields and continue their attack. Never mind that in between, you are overrun. Never mind that Bosses often don't have vulnerable points anymore, so one shot, one kill is pretty much ruled out, EVEN when their shields are down and they are already damaged. So sniper rifles are overkill but at the same time too slow to be used against normal enemies, but don't do enough damage to deal with the Bosses either. Often, a missed shot or running out of ammo is very dangerous. So what are they good for? I can't even use the Widow to take a swing at a husk if it gets too close. You often miss, they grab you and then.. Hilarity ensues? Even with my GI specced to be the ultimate sniper, I still can't take the enemy down fast enough using any available sniperrifle. Although, I haven't unlocked the BW yet, so maybe that one is different.
Shotguns? Most are too slow firing, or don't even pass a guardian's shield. Exceptions are the Rheegar (nerfed) and the Piranha (to be nerfed). Never mind the fact that the Piranha and Rheegar already had just a little too small a clip to be really easy to use and are only really useful at a range where, if anything goes wrong, you will be subjected to an instant kill, with too little room to manoeuvre.
Assault rifles? Too little accuracy, if they do any damage at all, so most are useless at anything except short range and most are far too heavy anyway.
Pistols? Too little damage and/or too heavy. Carnifex is one of the weapons that, imho, is very well balanced at the moment. At level X it is a useful weapon, even if slow firing and with low ammo. Use powers, pop off a few shots, reload, use powers.. Etc.
Imho all weapons should be viable, at least on Bronze, all Uncommon should at least do well on Silver and Gold and Platinum should be the domain of Rare and Ultra rares. But ideally, someone who has just started, should have a fighting chance with a level X common or uncommon weapon at least on Gold. As it stands, most weapons just aren't viable on any difficulty, let alone Gold or Platinum.
I say: enough with the nerfs already! Just buff everything else! That there is no level playing field is not due to one or two guns being overpowered, but due to all the others being underpowered! Bringing the few guns that work well down to level of the others is no solution.
Yes, as someone said, I can use ultralight materials on the Carnifex. Sure, but then I'd be better off using that Paladin, as I lose the use of one weapon upgrade slot to UPM. I then have to choose, do I drop Pistol Piercing Mod or Pistol High Calibre Barrel? When that happens, I am better off using either the Paladin, or a pistol with lower base damage, or maybe go back to the Phaeston or something.
As for the Piranha, with a smaller clip I can either accept the increased risk due to having to take longer to take down bosses at close range, compensate by switching one of my weapon mods to SSTC or change to another weapon altogether.
*sigh*
Why do I have to learn a whole new playstyle, new gun every few weeks?
I vote 'NO' if we do get a vote. I also suggest buffing everything else, especially rebalancing the sniper rifles. If you give me a decent sniper rifle and the ability to headshot Banshees, Primes and Atlases again, then I'll (reluctantly) hand over my Piranha. But I'd much rather have actual viable options to choose between, so I can choose a weapon that suits my build/mood/playstyle.
Also, btw, can we get rid of reload cancel, by shortening the animation for reloading to the time that it takes to reload? It is such a hassle and it makes no sense. Who makes the animation longer than the actual act? No, making the actual reload time longer to match the animation will NOT be appreciated.
Okay, I don't really care much about buffs and nerfs except..
Why nerf anything? Yes, I use the Piranha a lot now, but that is because it is effective, but not too heavy. Even so, it is best used at short range as its accuracy is not great. Yes, I also use the Carnifex as backup weapon on any power using classes for which it is important to have a light enough gun so that I still have 200% cooldown bonus. So I often use either the Piranha or the Carnifex, that is true. I'm thinking, that is what the stats show and that is why a gun is nerfed. If it is too popular, it is too powerful, so nerf it. Well, I gotta disagree.
I think we need more buffs.
Why? Well, for example, I used to love the Widow. On Bronze. But once I went on to Silver, Gold and now Platinum, I quickly found out any sniper rifle is virtually useless. There are so many enemies, that I can't snipe fast enough to kill them all. Never mind that many sniper rifles don't pass the enemies shields and they go in cover, regain shields and continue their attack. Never mind that in between, you are overrun. Never mind that Bosses often don't have vulnerable points anymore, so one shot, one kill is pretty much ruled out, EVEN when their shields are down and they are already damaged. So sniper rifles are overkill but at the same time too slow to be used against normal enemies, but don't do enough damage to deal with the Bosses either. Often, a missed shot or running out of ammo is very dangerous. So what are they good for? I can't even use the Widow to take a swing at a husk if it gets too close. You often miss, they grab you and then.. Hilarity ensues? Even with my GI specced to be the ultimate sniper, I still can't take the enemy down fast enough using any available sniperrifle. Although, I haven't unlocked the BW yet, so maybe that one is different.
Shotguns? Most are too slow firing, or don't even pass a guardian's shield. Exceptions are the Rheegar (nerfed) and the Piranha (to be nerfed). Never mind the fact that the Piranha and Rheegar already had just a little too small a clip to be really easy to use and are only really useful at a range where, if anything goes wrong, you will be subjected to an instant kill, with too little room to manoeuvre.
Assault rifles? Too little accuracy, if they do any damage at all, so most are useless at anything except short range and most are far too heavy anyway.
Pistols? Too little damage and/or too heavy. Carnifex is one of the weapons that, imho, is very well balanced at the moment. At level X it is a useful weapon, even if slow firing and with low ammo. Use powers, pop off a few shots, reload, use powers.. Etc.
Imho all weapons should be viable, at least on Bronze, all Uncommon should at least do well on Silver and Gold and Platinum should be the domain of Rare and Ultra rares. But ideally, someone who has just started, should have a fighting chance with a level X common or uncommon weapon at least on Gold. As it stands, most weapons just aren't viable on any difficulty, let alone Gold or Platinum.
I say: enough with the nerfs already! Just buff everything else! That there is no level playing field is not due to one or two guns being overpowered, but due to all the others being underpowered! Bringing the few guns that work well down to level of the others is no solution.
Yes, as someone said, I can use ultralight materials on the Carnifex. Sure, but then I'd be better off using that Paladin, as I lose the use of one weapon upgrade slot to UPM. I then have to choose, do I drop Pistol Piercing Mod or Pistol High Calibre Barrel? When that happens, I am better off using either the Paladin, or a pistol with lower base damage, or maybe go back to the Phaeston or something.
As for the Piranha, with a smaller clip I can either accept the increased risk due to having to take longer to take down bosses at close range, compensate by switching one of my weapon mods to SSTC or change to another weapon altogether.
*sigh*
Why do I have to learn a whole new playstyle, new gun every few weeks?
I vote 'NO' if we do get a vote. I also suggest buffing everything else, especially rebalancing the sniper rifles. If you give me a decent sniper rifle and the ability to headshot Banshees, Primes and Atlases again, then I'll (reluctantly) hand over my Piranha. But I'd much rather have actual viable options to choose between, so I can choose a weapon that suits my build/mood/playstyle.
Also, btw, can we get rid of reload cancel, by shortening the animation for reloading to the time that it takes to reload? It is such a hassle and it makes no sense. Who makes the animation longer than the actual act? No, making the actual reload time longer to match the animation will NOT be appreciated.
Modifié par TheCinC, 24 septembre 2012 - 06:20 .
#499
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 06:26
Pugz82
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these nerfs are just dumb...dumb.
#500
Posté 24 septembre 2012 - 06:59
waltervolpatto
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Zso_Zso wrote...
These nerfs do not seem too bad.
Although, this weekend I just discovered a nice synergy which will be ruined:
I played Kroguard with Piranha hunting Atlas mechs for the operation using the cycle:
1. Biotic charge an Atlas
2. Fire piranha while walking backwards (and a bit sideways to strafe the shots of the Atlas)
3. When the clip is empty, reload cancel it with the next charge (repeat from #1)
The synergy is that the cool-down is just right for emptying the clip, but it will not work out so nice with the smaller clip size.
it will be about the same: the unload of the clip + reload will be right about at BC recharge... (My recharge is at 200% with the PIranha and teh Kroguard)
