519 réponses à ce sujet

[buthane22]

The clip size decrease seems like the best decision for the Piranha, and make it keep it's 'storm weapon' nature.
Same thing for the Carnifex, which will stay viable for caster class, but may make people return to the Phalanx or consider the Paladin.

Btw, thanks for the Incisor buff of last week! Do you consider buffing it even more so it becomes more interesting? It's still sub-par compared to other Sniper rifles.
Also, Chris Priestly talked about an Eagle Buff. Is it still in discussion?

[Siran]

whateverman7 wrote...

the carni does not make the phalanx obsolete....the carni is more powerful, but the phalanx is lighter, fires faster, and has more ammo in the clip, all without mods

Phalanx being lighter has practically no relevance at the moment as you still have 200% cooldown with the Carnifex as a caster, so why use it over the Carni? True, the Phalanx has more ammo in the clip, but the Carnifex deals more damage per shot, so the sustained DPS of the Carnifex is still higher.

Modifié par Siran, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:45 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

pyroboy2290 wrote...

I'm really not sure about that piranha nerf, 2 fewer bullets per clip may seem insignificant, but that's 25% of it's clip size. With a 25% smaller clip the piranha will be 25% less effective at killing enemies since the weapon will have to be reloaded far more often. Will this nerf make it unuable like the krysae... maybe not, but it will certainly severly diminish it's usefullness. It's likely that post-nerf the only class that will be able to make good use of the piranha will be the destroyer.

On the subject of the carnifex nerf, while 0.2 more weight may not seem like a lot, it's the difference between 200% and 190% cooldown on most adepts and engineers. That 10% cooldown difference means that most abilities (those with 2.46 second cooldowns if not specced into the recharge speed evolution) Will take about 0.1 seconds longer to recharge. Now, again that may not seem like a lot, but I've had many games where 0.1 seconds of cool down would have meant the difference between BE'ing a banshee thus forcing it to drop the teammate who it grabbed and the explosion going off too late to save them, especially after they shortened the banshee's kill animation in update 1.3.

TL;DR: while the changes may seem insignificant, they're not and they shouldn't be implemented.

That's not exactly how it works.  25% smaller clip does not equate to 25% less damage per second.  It means 25% less damage per clip, which is different.  6 shots means less damage per clip, but it also takes less time to fire those 6 shots than it does to fire 8 shots.  DPS will certainly be lower with the 6-shot clip, but the decrease will be  significantly less than 25%.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:47 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

Merkit91 wrote...

Approved.
Will you buff something, Eric?

Also, thank you for posting this. Much appreciated.

Perhaps a Buff to the Javelins ammo reserves?

[LadyAlekto]

Hmmm the piranhas damage per clip on a ge with shotgun 3 is just enough to put a pyro down on plat with 6 shots, if all do hit proper....

On the carnifex, that would make the lighter pistols more acceptable, tho id rather take some of its spare ammo if any tweak has to be done

I still do believe these 2 guns are at a fine sweet spot

[Rotacioskapa]

The carnifex nerf is not a big deal because we have ultra light materials mod. Though i really don't understand what's the point of this.
I really don't like the Piranha's clip size decrease. It's only op because of the GI and Destroyer. Do something with the Geth Inf instead.

[Dasher1010]

I am absolutely not in favor of either. Making the Cernifex heavier than the Arc Pistol and Talon seems like a bad idea considering that both of those guns easily outclass the Carnifex.

[MinatheBrat]

 The Carnifex is supposed to better than the Phalanx..that's why it's Rare. Just like the Paladin is supposed to be better than the Carnifex because it's UR. 
Those saying that a Carnifex nerf is needed because it makes the Phalanx obsolete..head scratcher. That's the POINT of leveling up your manifest. The Rare level should have a 200% cooldown pistol that does some damage.

[adding]  - Actually  Rotacioskapa if I have to take off armor piercing mod to add ultra-light materials I won't be able to pop off a Guardian's head through the mail-slot. And honestly..that is one of my small joys in life. It will make me sad.

Modifié par MinatheBrat, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:53 .

[pyroboy2290]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

That's not exactly how it works.  25% smaller clip does not equate to 25% less damage per second.  It means 25% less damage per clip, which is different.  6 shots means less damage per clip, but it also takes less time to fire those 6 shots than it does to fire 8 shots.  DPS will certainly be lower with the 6-shot clip, but the decrease will be  significantly less than 25%.

I do realize that, but I didn't want my post to be a completely insurmountable wall of text. In reality the reduced clip size probably decreases the DPS and thus the combat efficiency of the piranha by closer to 15-20% (which is still quite significant.)

[121210Olivia]

Rotacioskapa wrote...

The carnifex nerf is not a big deal because we have ultra light materials mod. Though i really don't understand what's the point of this.

But that's just it (i.e., having to lose either AP, EB, or sight) and mod it with the ULM (seriously lowering damage output). And for players whose characters need 190-200 CDs-- it can only mean bad news.

Modifié par 121210Olivia, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:52 .

[rubynorman]

Back to the phalanx or my paladin 3 then. If I use ULM, I will go with the paladin. If I don't, I will go with the Phalanx + AP, EB mod. It has better ROF, clip size, and higher DPS due to reload cancel. After this nerf, IMO the carnifex which is a race < the phalanx which is an uncommon.

[Enigma SS]

Even though it's a fair change, I'd still like to know why they decided to balance the Carnifex so late.

[Josh.de]

Please let the Carnifex untouched.

[whateverman7]

Siran wrote...

Phalanx being lighter has practically no relevance at the moment as you still have 200% cooldown with the Carnifex as a caster, so why use it over the Carni? True, the Phalanx has more ammo in the clip, but the Carnifex deals more damage per shot, so the sustained DPS of the Carnifex is still higher.

why does it not have relevance? when picking a second gun, a caster would go for the lighter one...the carni is heavier, which hurts CD more than the phalanx...also, having more bullets can help cancel out the lower damage output (cause you shooting them more times)...plus, you can always add a mod to help with that....picking the phalanx over the carni right now isnt as hard as you trying to make it seem....you can go either way, it depends on the person's play style/preference

[CmnDwnWrkn]

MinatheBrat wrote...

 The Carnifex is supposed to better than the Phalanx..that's why it's Rare. Just like the Paladin is supposed to be better than the Carnifex because it's UR. 
Those saying that a Carnifex nerf is needed because it makes the Phalanx obsolete..head scratcher. That's the POINT of leveling up your manifest. The Rare level should have a 200% cooldown pistol that does some damage.

Actually, the Phalanx DPS is about the same as the Carnifex DPS, as long as your finger can achieve the maximum fire rate (about 4 shots per second).  And it's significantly lighter. 

[Master Xanthan]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Hey everyone, just so you guys aren't left in the dark, here is what we're thinking of changing to the Carnifex and Piranha for next week's balance changes.

Piranha Shotgun
- Clip size decreased from 8 to 6

Carnifex Pistol
- Encumbrance increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.2-0.7]

Both changes are unnecessary, both guns are fine as they are now. 

[ErrorTagUnknown]

That pirahna nerf is something I don't think a ton of people had been talking about. Reducing clip size keeps what's great about it, while limiting its boss annihilating powers just a bit, but allowing quick shots for casters (like fury) to finish off infantry they started on with powers. The carnifex one is good but... irrelevant? Pistol ulm will still allow it to cause no cooldown penalty just like most of the other pistols I think? Though you would have to forego a different mod to use the ulm. I suppose it would introduce a tiny bit bigger tradeoff, add weapon damage, or maximize cooldown, or maximize cooldown but lose some of the carnis effectiveness.

[kaileena_sands]

Charlie Bell wrote...

Still do not want Carni nerf. It fit the design niche perfectly for a 200% CD caster pistol. Now it will either be replaced by Paladin with ULM (since if you have to use ULM, might as well go as heavy as you can) or by the Acolyte.

That's exactly what will happen. Especially to people like me, which due to sheer luck have the Paladin at higher level than the Carnifex (at least for a while). The Carnifex will die. People will either take the Paladin with ULM (if they have it), or the Phalanx if they don't.

Plus, I honestly haven't seen many caster classes with a Carnifex recently at all. All I've seen are Talons, Paladins, Falcons, Mattocks, and strangely sniper rifles (oh those stasis snipers). I usually take my Hurricane, and I guess people that have it take it too.

The Piranha nerf is not too bad though. I am glad that you won't bury it to the ground. So, I guess, thanks. 


Btw, the announcement of something bad (that will blow out of proportion), and then revealing that the "very bad" thing people expected is not so bad is an old psychological trick. Shame on you for trying to use it on us. 


Edit: 

ErrorTagUnknown wrote...

That pirahna nerf is something I don't think a ton of people had been talking about. Reducing clip size keeps what's great about it, while limiting its boss annihilating powers just a bit, but allowing quick shots for casters (like fury) to finish off infantry they started on with powers. ...

 

Yep, that's why I am quite okay with the Piranha nerf! If they nerfed the weight, the heavy weapons classes would not suffer at all, while the casters would be hit (as usual). I think it's quite a reasonable nerf (even though yeah, it was not entirely needed).

Modifié par kaileena_sands, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:59 .

[Zeroth Angel]

Those are actually reasonable nerfs. Many people were probably expexting a damage nerf.

[Pedactor]

Carnifex change is unneeded.

Piranha change should be a slower RoF and wider pellet spread.

That would fix everything. The Clip change will mean that only a Destroyer will want to use it following the change.

Modifié par Pedactor, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:55 .

[Siran]

MinatheBrat wrote...
Those saying that a Carnifex nerf is needed because it makes the Phalanx obsolete..head scratcher. That's the POINT of leveling up your manifest. The Rare level should have a 200% cooldown pistol that does some damage.

No. Leveling up weapons with a bigger rarity should never make other weapons entirely obsolete, but give greater variety instead. Which is exactly what will be the case after the nerf.

The Carnifex is by no means "dead" after the proposed nerf. We're talking about a 10% recharge rate increase in most cases, not 100%. And again - there are several ways to still get 200% recharge rate: HP ULM and race passives . But now you have to make decisions and weigh pros and cons instead of just picking without thinking twice.

[Master Xanthan]

Wimbini wrote...

Those are actually reasonable nerfs. Many people were probably expexting a damage nerf.

Not really. The Carnifex was never overpowered, its perfect there's no need to do anything to it. The Piranha is fine, too. 

[Yajuu Omoi]

pyroboy2290 wrote...
In reality the reduced clip size probably decreases the DPS and thus the combat efficiency of the piranha by closer to 15-20% (which is still quite significant.)

Current Piranha X:
Burst DPS = 1542.00
Sustained DPS = 850.76
Clip Damage = 4934.40
Clip Cycle = 5.80 Seconds

"Nerffed" Piranha X:
Burst DPS = 1542.00
Sustained DPS = 740.16
Clip Damage = 3700.80
Clip Cycle = 5.00 Seconds

Burst DPS STAYS THE SAME. Mainly due to the fact that Burst DPS is only dependant on Damage per round, and rounds per second.

The Sustained drops by about 100 damage...you will barely notice it.

Total clip damage drops by 25%, THAT is a no brainer.

But the time it takes to empty and refull a clip drops by almost a full second.

I'd say its fair.

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:00 .

[RGFrog]

Enigma SS wrote...

Even though it's a fair change, I'd still like to know why they decided to balance the Carnifex so late.

They didn't. It was already 'balanced' the first time EF posted balance changes.

The Carnifex is only better, right now, than the phalanx in a single shot situation. And only better in DPS by 13 points. And is currently 2x the weight.

The Carnifex is by all accounts the same as taking a phalanx right now excpet for two things. It suffers more from sheild gate and is less effective than the phalanx with ammo powers like Incendiary and Warp.

Add more encumbrance and what happens is weapon mods are required to compensate.  Meaning what would make the Carnifex better and qualify it as a Rare weapon (eg. damage mods) now only make it slightly better and really not at all justifiable as a Rare weapon.