519 réponses à ce sujet

[Siran]

whateverman7 wrote...

you cant tell me how to play....i like having 2 guns, so i carry 2 guns...even on caster characters...i know, the shock....

No need to get all resentful if you don't agree...

You'll have to make sacrifices if you still want to carry two guns, that's the deal with casters, always has been. Or take the GPSMG with ULM, you're looking at a 3% recharge rate increase if you really want to take two weapons.

Modifié par Siran, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:30 .

[Tankcommander]

Piranha is too inaccurate for such a large nerf to its clip size...the DPS isn't that great with it if you are a good shot with other weapons, and it isn't that strong anyway.

Carnifex seems like a good balance change, even if it is several months late.

[Yajuu Omoi]

LeandroBraz wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Siran wrote...

whateverman7 wrote...

please stop saying that, cause it's not true....the carni makes nothing obsolete...just cause you dont choose to use it, doesnt mean it's obsolete

Then tell me, as a caster - why would you choose the Phalanx over the Carnifex of the same level? We've already established the Carni has higher DPS (sustained and reload canceled). You don't need a second gun as backup as a caster and the Carni has plenty of ammo anyway.

I'd personally use the Eagle, or the Raptor...but thats just me.

I prefer the Phalanx, simple because I like how it shoot (more fire rate). I don't give a d*mn about which one do more damage, I play better with more fire rate. The problem with numbers is that they don't considerate the player, how he uses the weapon. If you are a caster, and you are so busy doing explosions that you don't bother about actually hiting your shots, then you gonna want to shoot more times per second, since most of your shots gonna hit the wall... when I'm playing with caster, weapon is just something that I use between one cooldown and another.

I like you. You understand! 

[Kyerea]

These seem like fair adjustments.

[Yajuu Omoi]

Siran wrote...

whateverman7 wrote...

you cant tell me how to play....i like having 2 guns, so i carry 2 guns...even on caster characters...i know, the shock....

No need to get all resentful if you don't agree...

You'll have to make sacrifices if you still want to carry two guns, that's the deal with casters, always has been. Or take the GPSMG with ULM, you're looking at a 3% recharge rate increase if you really want to take two weapons.

Just fyi, if you have the ULM on BOTH an SMG AND Pistol, the ULM with work with any SMG.
But you HAVE to have the ULM on the pistol too.

[LeandroBraz]

Onpoint17 wrote...

I just want to go on record that I'm against any nerfing of weapons or powers. There is no reason to make the Carnifex heavier or the Pirannah fire less shots. Don't forget about the causual players that should outnumber the elite players who are always calling for nerfs.

nobody called for this nerfs, Bioware is doing it because they overshadow other weapons on their category. This have nothing to do with elite or casual players..

[Siran]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Ok, why would you choose a Carnifex X over a Paladin X then after the change? They will weigh the same. No reason to use the carnifex anymore.

For one - not everyone is as lucky as you or me and has a Paladin on level X (which very few will have I guess). Furthermore, the Paladin has other drawbacks, mainly the really small clip size of 3, which basically means you'd have to take the magazine mod along to increase the sustained DPS.

Also, my multiplayer manifest upgrade has different numbers from yours for both guns, so obviously one of our number sets are off. I'll check if I missed a recent update for it.

I did have the wrong numbers - had an older version installed it seems. I've edited my original post, sorry for the confusion.

[CrutchCricket]

If the Phalanx has that much butthurt attached to it, buff it in other ways (innate piercing perhaps).

Nerf is unnecessary.

[Trontor]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Hey everyone, just so you guys aren't left in the dark, here is what we're thinking of changing to the Carnifex and Piranha for next week's balance changes.

Piranha Shotgun
- Clip size decreased from 8 to 6

Fair enough.

Carnifex Pistol
- Encumbrance increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.2-0.7]

Why? Why do you think this is necessary? It is a caster weapon. It is supposed to be light. Why do think that all weapons that are not waterguns have to be too heavy for casters? That doesn't make any sense. 

[Elfonztm]

Oh come on, leave the Carnifex alone

[Siran]

CrutchCricket wrote...

If the Phalanx has that much butthurt attached to it, buff it in other ways (innate piercing perhaps).

I for one wouldn't mind the return of the target laser from ME2, but I'm afraid that's just wishful thinking.

I think the Phalanx is the one example where the Carnifex is better, there are others (Arc Pistol comes to mind). And it's just such an all-around good weapon with no real drawbacks, that even without comparing numbers people tend to use it so often, and not thinking about alternatives.

Modifié par Siran, 19 septembre 2012 - 07:40 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

JustAnotherVanguard wrote...

Carnifex Pistol
- Encumbrance increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.2-0.7]

Why? Why do you think this is necessary? It is a caster weapon. It is supposed to be light. Why do think that all weapons that are not waterguns have to be too heavy for casters? That doesn't make any sense. 

You MUST be joking... 0.2 is NOT that much...it won't even dent your CD.

[synapsefire]

Why do you do this to me Bioware? Next time your gonna balance the game could you please take me to a grease monkey? Cus I like to get lubed up before I get F****D! Huh, Some lube would be nice.. Or at least a courtesy lick guys.. How about a little courtesy lick the next time you decide to FCK ME.

[Siran]

Some people get waaaay to aggravated over a game.

[sudocloud]

carniflex nerf doesn't do much you can still get 200% on caster classes without ulm but you have to take the 20% capacity bonus in rank 4.

don't use piranha, but clip size is a huge nerf.will effect dps.

[Lord Rosario]

Siran wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Ok, why would you choose a Carnifex X over a Paladin X then after the change? They will weigh the same. No reason to use the carnifex anymore.

For one - not everyone is as lucky as you or me and has a Paladin on level X (which very few will have I guess). Furthermore, the Paladin has other drawbacks, mainly the really small clip size of 3, which basically means you'd have to take the magazine mod along to increase the sustained DPS.

Also, my multiplayer manifest upgrade has different numbers from yours for both guns, so obviously one of our number sets are off. I'll check if I missed a recent update for it.

I did have the wrong numbers - had an older version installed it seems. I've edited my original post, sorry for the confusion.

So, both have nearly the same DPS, leaving it entirely up in the air as which gun one would prefer as it is now. Phalanx weighs half as much while the Carnifex is heavier to get out just a bit more DPS. With the change, Carnifex would weigh more even with ultra light materials and would still have that similar kick behind it.. It was balanced and would be less so after the change in that relation.
I don't have a Paladin X. I still agree with some wise words though, "Leveling up weapons with a bigger rarity should never make other weapons entirely obsolete, but give greater variety instead."

Paladin would be better in every single way to the Carnifex and would be able to be so with half as many shots in the clip.

[whateverman7]

Siran wrote...
No need to get all resentful if you don't agree...

You'll have to make sacrifices if you still want to carry two guns, that's the deal with casters, always has been. Or take the GPSMG with ULM, you're looking at a 3% recharge rate increase if you really want to take two weapons.

wasnt trying to be....seemed you didnt want to accept i liked carrying to guns, like there was no need to...

or like how you're doing now: making it seem like it's a burden/hindrance or that i have limited options to carry to weapons...when that's not the case...you can carry 2 weapons on any class in the game relatively easy...it's all about which 2, and how you set up your character....cause no, the gpsmg is not the only backup weapon i use...

[KristinCousland]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

pyroboy2290 wrote...
In reality the reduced clip size probably decreases the DPS and thus the combat efficiency of the piranha by closer to 15-20% (which is still quite significant.)

Current Piranha X:
Burst DPS = 1542.00
Sustained DPS = 850.76
Clip Damage = 4934.40
Clip Cycle = 5.80 Seconds

"Nerffed" Piranha X:
Burst DPS = 1542.00
Sustained DPS = 740.16
Clip Damage = 3700.80
Clip Cycle = 5.00 Seconds


<snip>

I wonder how this works out for the GI.  I tended to empty my clip before reload canceling with cloak thus having longer than optimal cloak cycles.  The new clip cycle will, if following the same approach and emptying clip, mean that a higher percentage of shots will benefit from the cloak damage bonus.

Not sure on the exact maths, but I suspect it will not be much of a dps nerf for the GI whatsoever.

Reducing clip size will just hurt vanguards and adepts.  

While the nerf is not as dramatic as feared, I still do not quite see the point of it. 

[TheAdventurer29]

Thank you Eric. This is OKOKOKOKOKOKOK.

[Rakugi]

If you really want to "balance" the piranha, it will take an increase in weight by .2 to .5 to make other shotguns feel comparable, alongside the clip reduction if the change is .2 or .3

If the Carnifex is made that heavy, I honestly won't use it. Ever again. I don't understand your fascination with balancing the Carnifex. Could The Balance Team use some transparency in this case and tell us WHAT the Carnifex is " obscuring"? As far as I can tell the only comparable cousins to the Carnifex aren't even pistols. It's competitors are the Viper, Saber, Valiant, Black Widow, Crusader, Paladin. Single shot accuracy based weapons meant for dealing headshots to smaller enemies and general damage to armoured targets. Each of the previously mentioned weapons either has its own popularity or has been visited by balance changes, some multiple times.
Honestly, I'd call the Carnifex one of the most balanced and fun to use guns in the game, it is light but still needs casters to commit points to weight capacity. Powerful enough to feel useful as both a damage dealer to bosses and to headshot weak enemies, yet weak enough that many other guns are more powerful and efficient damage dealers. It has just enough bullets to carry a power based player through all but the last few waves of a game.
I don't see how making the Carnifex heavier will do anything but make casters have to use ULM or weaker guns. .5 is the butter zone, that magic number that every class and take their passive to 4 and choose weight capacity and still be at +200%.
If pistols are the obscured weapons, the only changes you should make are to lower arc pistols X weight to .35, buff the phalanx by 15% damage. The predator honestly sucks in all ways, I don't know how to fix it, +25% power, and an X weight of nothing maybe, a true caster gun? The UR pistols feel perfect to me. The Acolyte is a strange weapon that I don't think needs adjustment.
If the Carnifex is obscuring anything, it seems to be the Balance Team's ability to see beyond the symptoms and root for the cause.
As players we will avoid the guns that are inefficient or feel weak for their weight. The Viper up until recently was less powerful than the Carnifex for more weight. Anyone using powers would no brainer use the Carnifex for the weight, as an example. The better balance change for a gun as old to the game as the Carnifex is to look more intently at what it is "obscuring". Otherwise you are treating the symptom instead of the disease, and your patient may die. With the fall lineup and the overall atmosphere I get from ME3 community boards, it is time to bestow buffs in other places whenever possible and create goodwill with your fanbase, as any players lost may not come back.

[JameJame456xx]

Changing the clip size of the Piranha to 6? I'm definitely ok with that rather than nerfing its accuracy, rate-of-fire, or its damage. I rarely use up the entire cip of 8 either so I'm good.

[stefbomb]

Have you ever considered that these two weapons are so popular because they are good, solid weapons and many of the rest are either:

* Complete crap
* Difficult to use (e.g. need rapid headshots to do any noticeable damage)
* Only situationally useful (e.g. only good on a couple of classes with specific specs)
* Don't work well off-host (e.g. GPS)

So how about instead of nerfing the good guns you buff the bad ones until they can compete?

[JackKnife23]

Carnifex must burn it is sooooooo overpowered and overused

Biotics should not be able to weild such a a hand cannon

[WolfWyrm]

I've only read the first page. Wow there's a lot of response to this, but in a more positive manner which is nice.

I agree this update thread is much appreciated! Thanks for posting and calming the community down a couple notches.

The Carnifex wieght increase isn't bad at all, especially since caster classes only need to add the ULM mod to keep its wieght down and still be effective. I still believe this is not a necessary nerf, but I can live with it.

The Piranha nerf sounds quite reasonable as well, no complaints here.

Now if you guys could take another look at the Krysae sniper rifle. The recoil and the timing between each round really makes this weapon unfavorable in my opinion. I also found the trigger squeeze/scope zoom-in thing to be more annoying than helpful, especially for the infiltrators who would be knocked out of tactical cloak mode while trying to zoom in.

Anyway thanks again for giving us a heads up to what you guys were thinking of doing with the Carnifex and the Piranha.

[Siran]

Lord Rosario wrote...

So, both have nearly the same DPS, leaving it entirely up in the air as which gun one would prefer as it is now.

Not entirely - being able to kill basic mooks with a headshot or two can make quite a difference, with the Phalanx you'd have to reliably dish out more headshots for the same effect and DPS, especially sustained DPS really only comes to play when you're dealing with bosses, for which casters have other means.

Phalanx weighs half as much while the Carnifex is heavier to get out just a bit more DPS. With the change, Carnifex would weigh more even with ultra light materials and would still have that similar kick behind it.. It was balanced and would be less so after the change in that relation.

I agree, it's a fine line, but I'm don't think the proposed weight increase is too high, considering the uses of the Carnifex when dealing with normal enemies.

Paladin would be better in every single way to the Carnifex and would be able to be so with half as many shots in the clip.

The Paladin should be better in almost every single way, given it's an ultra-rare. But I for one usually only use it with the magazine mod, since the half clip size really limits its usage against basic enemies, there's a certain sweet spot, and 3 shots isn't enough - imho of course. And then there is the availability, a Carnifex will be way faster leveled to X.