In private messages, we have determined that stages are evil. But I still hope someone can help me out.
Using the conversation editor, it is possible to have the conversation involve more individuals than just the GW and 'someone else'. Using the defaults, I've done this with two NPCs and the GW with no problem, all three end up in approximately the same positions that they started in.
Adding a dynamic stage to the conversation with one NPC talking (conversation owner), one NPC standing, and the GW 'talking'; the characters jumped around until the conversation owner was identified as standing at location (0,0,0) on the dynamic stage. Once I discovered 0,0,0 everything went smoothly (for positioning) until.....
I just HAD to go and add another speaker and the jumping around started again. What SEEMS to be happening is that the speaker is automatically set to 0,0,0 causing the other two participants to leap to the positions identified in the dynamic stage. The stage and conversation editor both identify specifically which participant SHOULD be at 0,0,0 - but I have leaping characters again.
My next 'solution' I'm going to try will be to have a second stage that
includes only the GW and the secondary speaker so that the primary
speaker doesn't jump to new locations. And make sure to return to the original stage before the end of the conversation so that everyone ends up where they should. I can't try that until after work.
Does anyone know anything about why this (jumping/leaping) happens and how to fix it? Or have any other ideas that I might try. If anyone wonders, swearing doesn't work.
Conversations & dynamic stages
Débuté par
MerAnne
, sept. 19 2012 05:19
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#2
Posté 20 septembre 2012 - 05:38
Firky
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I fear I can't help, because I don't understand what you are saying.
But I have made conversations with 6 people, all participating in the conversation, on one stage that work fine.
What's a dynamic stage?
(I don't get what you're saying about the 0,0,0 position. But, are you making a camera for each speaker and then tying it to each line of dialogue that person is saying?)
But I have made conversations with 6 people, all participating in the conversation, on one stage that work fine.
What's a dynamic stage?
(I don't get what you're saying about the 0,0,0 position. But, are you making a camera for each speaker and then tying it to each line of dialogue that person is saying?)
#3
Posté 20 septembre 2012 - 06:09
Firky
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This might be completely unhelpful, because I think you're talking about something different. (But, I struggled with making a stage to start with. Actually, I can't recall how I figured it out. I think Dahlia Lynn helped me.)
1. Make a stage with places and cameras for each person.
2. Place the stage into the area where the conversation is taking place. (Unless there is some reason not to, just make the places overlay where people are already standing?)
3. In the conversation file, for each line of dialogue, identify the camera for each speaker - using the cinematics tab. There can be multiple cameras for each speaker/different lines. (Each speaker - and NPC you want to see? - should be assigned a place, and the stage needs to be set here, too.)
Can you only set one stage per conversation? I can't recall. I think I ran into major problems with more than one, but I might be thinking of something else - and I'm still not sure if I'm talking about a "dynamic stage" at all.
Good luck.
1. Make a stage with places and cameras for each person.
2. Place the stage into the area where the conversation is taking place. (Unless there is some reason not to, just make the places overlay where people are already standing?)
3. In the conversation file, for each line of dialogue, identify the camera for each speaker - using the cinematics tab. There can be multiple cameras for each speaker/different lines. (Each speaker - and NPC you want to see? - should be assigned a place, and the stage needs to be set here, too.)
Can you only set one stage per conversation? I can't recall. I think I ran into major problems with more than one, but I might be thinking of something else - and I'm still not sure if I'm talking about a "dynamic stage" at all.
Good luck.
Modifié par Firky, 20 septembre 2012 - 06:11 .
#4
Posté 20 septembre 2012 - 07:57
AmstradHero
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First, stages are not evil. If you want to do proper cinematic dialogue, stages are essential. Otherwise you'll be manually creating cutscenes for every single line of dialogue in which you want an animation, and that's just untenable for dialogue of any decent length. For most cases, stick to placed stages and you get all the animation/camera/expression/preview benefits with significantly reduced hassle.
Dynamic stages are a definite challenge. The only time they ever seem to be used in the core game is when you're talking to party members out in the world. At that point, the owner (actor1 place in the stage definition) of the conversations is mapped to 0,0,0 and 0,0,0 orientation, and it is the player who is facing them. If you assign the player to actor1 and the owner to actor2, then you'll get them jumping around while you talk.
As such, I have no idea whether it's even possible to have multiple NPCs to talk to using a dynamic stage. It seems to me that the NPC has to be at the origin with no rotation, else the PC will jump - I'm not sure why. If at all possible, fix a location for the conversation. If it could occur in different areas, you can add a static stage with the same tag to multiple areas - as tags only need to be unique within an area.
I would be interested to hear your progress on dynamic stages - I did experiment at one point, but for me the dynamic stage was a "nice-to-have" rather than a necessity, so I ditched it.
Dynamic stages are a definite challenge. The only time they ever seem to be used in the core game is when you're talking to party members out in the world. At that point, the owner (actor1 place in the stage definition) of the conversations is mapped to 0,0,0 and 0,0,0 orientation, and it is the player who is facing them. If you assign the player to actor1 and the owner to actor2, then you'll get them jumping around while you talk.
As such, I have no idea whether it's even possible to have multiple NPCs to talk to using a dynamic stage. It seems to me that the NPC has to be at the origin with no rotation, else the PC will jump - I'm not sure why. If at all possible, fix a location for the conversation. If it could occur in different areas, you can add a static stage with the same tag to multiple areas - as tags only need to be unique within an area.
I would be interested to hear your progress on dynamic stages - I did experiment at one point, but for me the dynamic stage was a "nice-to-have" rather than a necessity, so I ditched it.
- ladyofpayne aime ceci
#5
Posté 20 septembre 2012 - 11:24
Firky
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^ Hi Amstrad.
After reading that, I still have no idea what a dynamic stage is.
But I'm interested. Can you dumb it down in a sentence? 
(Well. Unless you're describing those conversations with a party member which happen in different places in Origins. That would make sense. And, I guess there is a default camera for wherever the area is that they are in? Why wouldn't you be able to use more characters .... I can't actualy recall that happening in Origins .... It probably did ....? )
After reading that, I still have no idea what a dynamic stage is.
But I'm interested. Can you dumb it down in a sentence? (Well. Unless you're describing those conversations with a party member which happen in different places in Origins. That would make sense. And, I guess there is a default camera for wherever the area is that they are in? Why wouldn't you be able to use more characters .... I can't actualy recall that happening in Origins .... It probably did ....? )
Modifié par Firky, 20 septembre 2012 - 11:31 .
#6
Posté 20 septembre 2012 - 01:57
MerAnne
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AmstradHero - thank you for your response and I'll respond in more detail later (I'm at work)
Firky, I can answer your question fairly quickly and easily so I'll do that know. Dynamic stages are not tied to a specific area. You can put as many cameras and 'people' in them as you like and you can use them 'anywhere'.
You've played the Human Noble origin? No matter which direction you go through the halls of Highever, Ser Gilmore will appear and tell you that your mabari is causing a disturbance. That is a dynamic stage. The correct background appears behind Ser Gilmore regardless of which direction you approached from. That conversation uses a dynamic stage.
Dynamic stages can be used in conversations so that you don't need a unique stage for each conversation. You identify only those 'people', 'entities', whatever on the stage that are necessary to the conversation and use the cameras that you need. Very very handy when 'out in the world'. But dangerous. If several conversations are using a camera and you move it instead of adding a new camera (shudder). I don't want to think about it - it just couldn't be pretty!
The issue isn't the number of characters/NPCs that are on the stage, the issue is the number of NPCs that are participating in the conversation. If it is just one NPC and the PC/GW, all is well with the world. As soon as a second NPC has a line in the conversation that is when I started having the 'jumping' problem.
Firky, I can answer your question fairly quickly and easily so I'll do that know. Dynamic stages are not tied to a specific area. You can put as many cameras and 'people' in them as you like and you can use them 'anywhere'.
You've played the Human Noble origin? No matter which direction you go through the halls of Highever, Ser Gilmore will appear and tell you that your mabari is causing a disturbance. That is a dynamic stage. The correct background appears behind Ser Gilmore regardless of which direction you approached from. That conversation uses a dynamic stage.
Dynamic stages can be used in conversations so that you don't need a unique stage for each conversation. You identify only those 'people', 'entities', whatever on the stage that are necessary to the conversation and use the cameras that you need. Very very handy when 'out in the world'. But dangerous. If several conversations are using a camera and you move it instead of adding a new camera (shudder). I don't want to think about it - it just couldn't be pretty!
The issue isn't the number of characters/NPCs that are on the stage, the issue is the number of NPCs that are participating in the conversation. If it is just one NPC and the PC/GW, all is well with the world. As soon as a second NPC has a line in the conversation that is when I started having the 'jumping' problem.
#7
Posté 20 septembre 2012 - 08:15
MerAnne
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Hi Amstrad, first - I always play Alley of Murders. It is one of my favorite mods (saying this before I forget to mention it again)
Everything you have said about positioning is accurate - as far as I know. I have no problem with the dynamic stages and conversations as long as only actor1 (owner/NPC) and actor2 (GW/PC) are speaking. The issue comes up when actor3 (NPC) enters the conversation (without using a cutscene).
Actor3 speaks: Even though actor3 isn't identified as the owner of the conversation, as soon as actor3 (NPC) begins speaking actor3 seems to be redefined as the owner and actor3's position is the equivalent of 0,0,0 causing actor1 and actor2 to change their positions (in the area) to stay in the position relationship in the area with actor3 in the 'new' 0,0,0
Actor2 'speaks': control then shifts to actor2 (GW/PC), even if actor2 doesn't say anything, which seems to cause actor1 to return to 0,0,0 - but in a slightly new location in the area. Causing actor2 and actor3 to jump to the 'correct' positions in relationship to actor1 who is now the owner again.
And everyone stays in these positions, until the next time actor3 'speaks' when everyone starts leaping around again.
This same 'jumping' seems to occur on static stages as well, but I haven't done the same level of testing that I've done for the dynamic stages so may be mistaken. Since the areas I use are all pre-existing DAO areas, it (probably) isn't the same as areas that I would create for myself.
I have the feeling that to include actor3 - without the jumping - a cutscene is going to have to be called and I'm not certain that it is even possible to return control to the original conversation. Maybe.
There is a way for actor1 (NPC/owner), actor2 (GW/PC), and actor3 (NPC) to all have lines without visible 'leaping about' using a dynamic stage. But it is a rather special instance. Actor1 and actor3 are placed at specific locations in the area, are standing very close together (side by side), and are stationary. Actor2 approaches Actor1 and Actor3 to initiate the conversation. IF I remember correctly, 0,0,0 is actually between Actor1 and Actor3 rather than either actor being positioned at exactly 0,0,0. I suspect that there is actually movement, but it isn't (as) noticeable because of the configuration of the characters and cameras.
I am in agreement that the cinematics and animations tabs are great on the conversations. Some days, I even think that I'm doing some pretty cool stuff. But when I've got actors1-3 leaping around, I maintain that stages are evil. Essential, but evil ;-) I was actually feeling pretty good about them until I tried to let actor3 say a line!
Everything you have said about positioning is accurate - as far as I know. I have no problem with the dynamic stages and conversations as long as only actor1 (owner/NPC) and actor2 (GW/PC) are speaking. The issue comes up when actor3 (NPC) enters the conversation (without using a cutscene).
Actor3 speaks: Even though actor3 isn't identified as the owner of the conversation, as soon as actor3 (NPC) begins speaking actor3 seems to be redefined as the owner and actor3's position is the equivalent of 0,0,0 causing actor1 and actor2 to change their positions (in the area) to stay in the position relationship in the area with actor3 in the 'new' 0,0,0
Actor2 'speaks': control then shifts to actor2 (GW/PC), even if actor2 doesn't say anything, which seems to cause actor1 to return to 0,0,0 - but in a slightly new location in the area. Causing actor2 and actor3 to jump to the 'correct' positions in relationship to actor1 who is now the owner again.
And everyone stays in these positions, until the next time actor3 'speaks' when everyone starts leaping around again.
This same 'jumping' seems to occur on static stages as well, but I haven't done the same level of testing that I've done for the dynamic stages so may be mistaken. Since the areas I use are all pre-existing DAO areas, it (probably) isn't the same as areas that I would create for myself.
I have the feeling that to include actor3 - without the jumping - a cutscene is going to have to be called and I'm not certain that it is even possible to return control to the original conversation. Maybe.
There is a way for actor1 (NPC/owner), actor2 (GW/PC), and actor3 (NPC) to all have lines without visible 'leaping about' using a dynamic stage. But it is a rather special instance. Actor1 and actor3 are placed at specific locations in the area, are standing very close together (side by side), and are stationary. Actor2 approaches Actor1 and Actor3 to initiate the conversation. IF I remember correctly, 0,0,0 is actually between Actor1 and Actor3 rather than either actor being positioned at exactly 0,0,0. I suspect that there is actually movement, but it isn't (as) noticeable because of the configuration of the characters and cameras.
I am in agreement that the cinematics and animations tabs are great on the conversations. Some days, I even think that I'm doing some pretty cool stuff. But when I've got actors1-3 leaping around, I maintain that stages are evil. Essential, but evil ;-) I was actually feeling pretty good about them until I tried to let actor3 say a line!
#8
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 03:13
sea-
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Is there actually a reason you need to use a dynamic stage? Assuming an event triggers a conversation, you should be able to just place it near where that event triggers and you should be fine...
The only time I use dynamic stages is for followers (bingo) or situations where you have a quest NPC who can move around. Otherwise it's generally not necessary. I can understand it being a limit but to be honest, you'd probably have to design a very particular situation where fixed stages do not work.
EDIT: I got things working just fine. Duplicated the default dynamic stage into my own module, added some cameras and places, made a new conversation with about 5 people in it, gave each of them a bunch of lines, ticked "at current location", all other settings at default. No camera weirdness at all. The only strange thing was that after the conversation, they seemed to teleport a few feet away, but I'll give that a pass because that might have been the way I positioned them relative to the player.
If the player is at 0,0,0 in your stage then I have to be "that guy" and ask if you selected the "at current location" box in your conversation settings. Otherwise you will run into issues with dynamic stages.
The only time I use dynamic stages is for followers (bingo) or situations where you have a quest NPC who can move around. Otherwise it's generally not necessary. I can understand it being a limit but to be honest, you'd probably have to design a very particular situation where fixed stages do not work.
EDIT: I got things working just fine. Duplicated the default dynamic stage into my own module, added some cameras and places, made a new conversation with about 5 people in it, gave each of them a bunch of lines, ticked "at current location", all other settings at default. No camera weirdness at all. The only strange thing was that after the conversation, they seemed to teleport a few feet away, but I'll give that a pass because that might have been the way I positioned them relative to the player.
If the player is at 0,0,0 in your stage then I have to be "that guy" and ask if you selected the "at current location" box in your conversation settings. Otherwise you will run into issues with dynamic stages.
Modifié par sea-, 21 septembre 2012 - 03:42 .
#9
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 10:43
MerAnne
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I did have the same problem with fixed stages (if I remember correctly, it has been a while), the areas aren't mine, and only one of the conversation participants is 'mine'. I created actor1, but actor2 is the GW and actor3 is a follower from the vanilla game. I guess I can make a copy of the stage and try it as a fixed stage again to confirm that isn't the problem.
when you copied the dynamic stage into your own module did you use an area that you owned/created or did you use an area that was in the Single Player/Core resources? Could all 5 participants move around prior to the conversation? The teleporting, btw, is the issue. The camera is fine, it is the teleporting.... Depending on camera angle, you can sometimes 'see' the individual teleports based on what the background should be and what the background is. But other than knowing what the camera SHOULD be showing behind the person, the jumping/teleporting doesn't show up until the conversation is over and some of the participants are in different positions.
yes, selected 'at current location' if you want to amuse yourself, don't select 'at current location' and play through a conversation. And I'm not at all insulted by the 'being that guy' question because it is quite possible that it is a simple blasted setting someplace. I'd rather have a solution to the issue than appear brilliant. Too late for that anyway ;-)
when you copied the dynamic stage into your own module did you use an area that you owned/created or did you use an area that was in the Single Player/Core resources? Could all 5 participants move around prior to the conversation? The teleporting, btw, is the issue. The camera is fine, it is the teleporting.... Depending on camera angle, you can sometimes 'see' the individual teleports based on what the background should be and what the background is. But other than knowing what the camera SHOULD be showing behind the person, the jumping/teleporting doesn't show up until the conversation is over and some of the participants are in different positions.
yes, selected 'at current location' if you want to amuse yourself, don't select 'at current location' and play through a conversation. And I'm not at all insulted by the 'being that guy' question because it is quite possible that it is a simple blasted setting someplace. I'd rather have a solution to the issue than appear brilliant. Too late for that anyway ;-)
#10
Posté 21 septembre 2012 - 06:04
sea-
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I used an area in my own module (because I have a stand-alone campaign). As I said, the dynamic stage was copied from the core resources and modified, but I'm reasonably sure it would work with one you create yourself. I doubt the owner module matters much, though I could be wrong...
I deleted the stuff I made because I had no use for it, but it's certainly possible that the conversation moved very slightly as I went through it, which could account for the discrepancy in the before/after positions (though I'd blame it more on the game just moving the NPCs to their stage places).
Have you re-tested with a stage and conversation you created yourself, by any chance? Try making it by modifying the default dynamic stage, making sure to also check that the tag is accurate.
I deleted the stuff I made because I had no use for it, but it's certainly possible that the conversation moved very slightly as I went through it, which could account for the discrepancy in the before/after positions (though I'd blame it more on the game just moving the NPCs to their stage places).
Have you re-tested with a stage and conversation you created yourself, by any chance? Try making it by modifying the default dynamic stage, making sure to also check that the tag is accurate.
Modifié par sea-, 21 septembre 2012 - 06:04 .
#11
Posté 27 septembre 2012 - 12:06
MerAnne
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Since there seemed to be some interest, I'll try to briefly sum up the 'findings' (pause for those who know me to laugh at the use of 'briefly'). Everything that follows is based on stages that are used in vanilla DAO areas and is specific to stages associated with the conversation editor.
Dynamic stages are done 'at location' and are the same configuration of actors and cameras regardless of where the conversation occurs. In Camp, Orzammar, or Lothering - it doesn't matter. If there are only two participants in the conversation, the owner of the conversation should be set to 0,0,0 There is no 'leaping about' when there are only two participants in the conversation and the conversation owner is set to 0,0,0 When there are more than two participants in the conversation, then jumping/leaping/teleporting occurs and I haven't been able to stop it
Dynamic stages done 'at tag' can only be done (as far as I can tell, I could be wrong) at one of the tags created in DAO. I have not managed to get this to work because of the limited number of tags in the area that I am working in. It might work in an area with a lot of 'tags', but what little I've done caused even more extreme jumping/leaping/teleporting than using 'at location'. jumping/leaping/teleporting happens with only two participants in the conversation and setting the conversation owner to 0,0,0 puts the conversation owner in the middle of a pre-existing group of NPCs/actors.
Static stage. I might be able to do this, but I have concerns about whether or not it would impact on core DAO resources. It seems like a lot of effort for very little return. If I was the owner of the area, I would create another tag and it seems very simple straightforward.
Solution... Since the 3rd participant in the conversation doesn't interject until close to the end of that conversation thread and there are no more responses required from the PC/GW/player, I am going to try using a cutscene to complete the conversation. I don't know that this will work, but I will attempt it. If it doesn't work (shrug), I'll remove the 3rd participant from the conversation.
Dynamic stages are done 'at location' and are the same configuration of actors and cameras regardless of where the conversation occurs. In Camp, Orzammar, or Lothering - it doesn't matter. If there are only two participants in the conversation, the owner of the conversation should be set to 0,0,0 There is no 'leaping about' when there are only two participants in the conversation and the conversation owner is set to 0,0,0 When there are more than two participants in the conversation, then jumping/leaping/teleporting occurs and I haven't been able to stop it
Dynamic stages done 'at tag' can only be done (as far as I can tell, I could be wrong) at one of the tags created in DAO. I have not managed to get this to work because of the limited number of tags in the area that I am working in. It might work in an area with a lot of 'tags', but what little I've done caused even more extreme jumping/leaping/teleporting than using 'at location'. jumping/leaping/teleporting happens with only two participants in the conversation and setting the conversation owner to 0,0,0 puts the conversation owner in the middle of a pre-existing group of NPCs/actors.
Static stage. I might be able to do this, but I have concerns about whether or not it would impact on core DAO resources. It seems like a lot of effort for very little return. If I was the owner of the area, I would create another tag and it seems very simple straightforward.
Solution... Since the 3rd participant in the conversation doesn't interject until close to the end of that conversation thread and there are no more responses required from the PC/GW/player, I am going to try using a cutscene to complete the conversation. I don't know that this will work, but I will attempt it. If it doesn't work (shrug), I'll remove the 3rd participant from the conversation.
#12
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 12:53
alschemid
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Dynamic stages are not evil... I can not live without them! 
The line that the actor 2 and 3 speaks what is its speaker tag? Is it owner or something else?
I remember I had a problem with that....
The line that the actor 2 and 3 speaks what is its speaker tag? Is it owner or something else?
I remember I had a problem with that....
#13
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 02:33
MerAnne
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Being necessary does not mean that they aren't evil. Without evil, how can you recognize good? I get along fine with dynamic stages as long as their are only two participants in the conversation.
I'm going to give them names because it is just easier than numbers. There are three participants in the conversation Jasmine/Owner, Gorim, and the (future) GW/Player. As long as there are only two speakers, all is well with the world. When Gorim enters the conversation, that is when the 'jumping' problem starts.
Jamine/Owner speaks to GW/Player (no problem)
GW/Player tells Gorim to make Jasmine shut up (no problem)
Gorim responds to the Player 'yes, my lord/lady' (all characters 'jump')
GW/Player does not respond/continue
Gorim talks to Jasmine/Owner 'you heard him/her' (all characters 'jump')
GW/Player does not respond/continue
Jasmine/Owner bows (all characters 'jump')
Gorim is identified as the speaker under the dialogue tab, the stage is 'at location'. Interestingly - when created as a one line cutscene, both Gorim and Jasmine/Owner are lip synced to the voiceover.
I'm going to give them names because it is just easier than numbers. There are three participants in the conversation Jasmine/Owner, Gorim, and the (future) GW/Player. As long as there are only two speakers, all is well with the world. When Gorim enters the conversation, that is when the 'jumping' problem starts.
Jamine/Owner speaks to GW/Player (no problem)
GW/Player tells Gorim to make Jasmine shut up (no problem)
Gorim responds to the Player 'yes, my lord/lady' (all characters 'jump')
GW/Player does not respond/continue
Gorim talks to Jasmine/Owner 'you heard him/her' (all characters 'jump')
GW/Player does not respond/continue
Jasmine/Owner bows (all characters 'jump')
Gorim is identified as the speaker under the dialogue tab, the stage is 'at location'. Interestingly - when created as a one line cutscene, both Gorim and Jasmine/Owner are lip synced to the voiceover.
#14
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 04:16
alschemid
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So all Jamine lines have Jamine as the Speaker tag, all Gorim lines have Gorim as Speaker tag, and all of them have the appropriate Listener Tag?
On the cinematic tab all Jamine and Gorim lines are set so that both are in their respective positions in the stage, or are you using the same position for both?
Also in the cinematic tab do you have any pose change from one line to the other?
On the cinematic tab all Jamine and Gorim lines are set so that both are in their respective positions in the stage, or are you using the same position for both?
Also in the cinematic tab do you have any pose change from one line to the other?
#15
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 05:30
MerAnne
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All Gorim's lines have Gorim as Speaker and the appropriate Listener tag
All of Jasmine's line (identified as Owner) have the appropriate Listener and Speaker Tags.
On the cinematic tab, each is defined in their specific location, they can't share (as far as I know) the same location on the cinematic tab. It is the same (dynamic) stage throughout.
Hmmm during Gorim's first line, he crosses his arms over his chest and maintains that pose through his second line. However, the problem started before I had put any poses in the conversation.
No animations are set for Gorim.
All of Jasmine's line (identified as Owner) have the appropriate Listener and Speaker Tags.
On the cinematic tab, each is defined in their specific location, they can't share (as far as I know) the same location on the cinematic tab. It is the same (dynamic) stage throughout.
Hmmm during Gorim's first line, he crosses his arms over his chest and maintains that pose through his second line. However, the problem started before I had put any poses in the conversation.
No animations are set for Gorim.
#16
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 05:46
alschemid
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In all the lines it is the same stage and it says Inherit()?
#18
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 06:03
alschemid
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When you say jump, you say the NPCs change places or it looks like the animation they are doing is cut/restarted?
I had this cut/restart animation problem when changing dialogue files using a script or when the root of my dialogue was using a default animation in the pose column in the cinematic tab and the lines had another pose.
I had this cut/restart animation problem when changing dialogue files using a script or when the root of my dialogue was using a default animation in the pose column in the cinematic tab and the lines had another pose.
#19
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 06:16
MerAnne
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Here is the explanation from earlier.
Everything you have said about positioning is accurate - as far as I know. I have no problem with the dynamic stages and conversations as long as only actor1 (owner/NPC) and actor2 (GW/PC) are speaking. The issue comes up when actor3 (NPC) enters the conversation (without using a cutscene).
Actor3 speaks: Even though actor3 isn't identified as the owner of the conversation, as soon as actor3 (NPC) begins speaking actor3 seems to be redefined as the owner and actor3's position is the equivalent of 0,0,0 causing actor1 and actor2 to change their positions (in the area) to stay in the position relationship in the area with actor3 in the 'new' 0,0,0
Actor2 'speaks': control then shifts to actor2 (GW/PC), even if actor2 doesn't say anything, which seems to cause actor1 to return to 0,0,0 - but in a slightly new location in the area. Causing actor2 and actor3 to jump to the 'correct' positions in relationship to actor1 who is now the owner again.
And everyone stays in these positions, until the next time actor3 'speaks' when everyone starts leaping around again.
The leaping/jumping seems to be related to where 0,0,0 is located. If I owned the area, I could insert a tag and use 'at tag' rather than 'at location'. In my spare time, I am investigating using one line cutscenes to find an alternative that doesn't involve leaping NPCs
Everything you have said about positioning is accurate - as far as I know. I have no problem with the dynamic stages and conversations as long as only actor1 (owner/NPC) and actor2 (GW/PC) are speaking. The issue comes up when actor3 (NPC) enters the conversation (without using a cutscene).
Actor3 speaks: Even though actor3 isn't identified as the owner of the conversation, as soon as actor3 (NPC) begins speaking actor3 seems to be redefined as the owner and actor3's position is the equivalent of 0,0,0 causing actor1 and actor2 to change their positions (in the area) to stay in the position relationship in the area with actor3 in the 'new' 0,0,0
Actor2 'speaks': control then shifts to actor2 (GW/PC), even if actor2 doesn't say anything, which seems to cause actor1 to return to 0,0,0 - but in a slightly new location in the area. Causing actor2 and actor3 to jump to the 'correct' positions in relationship to actor1 who is now the owner again.
And everyone stays in these positions, until the next time actor3 'speaks' when everyone starts leaping around again.
The leaping/jumping seems to be related to where 0,0,0 is located. If I owned the area, I could insert a tag and use 'at tag' rather than 'at location'. In my spare time, I am investigating using one line cutscenes to find an alternative that doesn't involve leaping NPCs
#20
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 06:53
alschemid
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I have a dialogue between NPC and PC, and later a third NPC joins the conversation. And they stay in the positions assigned to them in the stage, even if no one of them is in the 0,0,0 position.
I have noticed that there is a small shift/jump of the environment (not that the characters change their position relative to each other it is more like the stage is being repositioned) if the third NPC is not added in the cinematic tab position at the beginning of the dialogue but only when he says his line. If I add him at the first line this shift doesn't happen. Also my dialogue has no owner, all the lines have the NPC name to it, though I don't think it makes any difference.
I have noticed that there is a small shift/jump of the environment (not that the characters change their position relative to each other it is more like the stage is being repositioned) if the third NPC is not added in the cinematic tab position at the beginning of the dialogue but only when he says his line. If I add him at the first line this shift doesn't happen. Also my dialogue has no owner, all the lines have the NPC name to it, though I don't think it makes any difference.
#21
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 09:47
MerAnne
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I have to run, but..... are you working with an area that you created? Or a vanilla DAO area?
I'll look, but I think that he (Gorim in this case) is in from the beginning of the dialogue, but maybe I'm wrong. I need to 'do stuff' before dark so I'll have to confirm this later...
I'll look, but I think that he (Gorim in this case) is in from the beginning of the dialogue, but maybe I'm wrong. I need to 'do stuff' before dark so I'll have to confirm this later...
#22
Posté 14 octobre 2012 - 11:44
MerAnne
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All characters were added from the first line.
And how does your dialogue have no owner? Is this a cutscene rather than a conversation?
And how does your dialogue have no owner? Is this a cutscene rather than a conversation?
#23
Posté 15 octobre 2012 - 06:02
alschemid
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oh.... after testing it more I see that I have the same problem too... I was unable to see before because of the camera cuts I had added... I suppose I should keep the camera cuts then. 
When I say no owner I mean the speaker tag is not set to Owner but to a specific character... and I am calling it from a script.
When I say no owner I mean the speaker tag is not set to Owner but to a specific character... and I am calling it from a script.
#24
Posté 15 octobre 2012 - 11:06
MerAnne
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Ah yes, I did have my suspicions. I'll let you know if I find a solution. I'm experimenting with cutscenes to see if I can do something sneaky. When all else fails - sneaky is the only way to go ;-)
It is a slow process because I do it in my 'spare' time. Which means when I'm frustrated with some other bit of scripting. Cutscenes are not my favorite thing - I just don't have the patience/expertise to do them well.
It is a slow process because I do it in my 'spare' time. Which means when I'm frustrated with some other bit of scripting. Cutscenes are not my favorite thing - I just don't have the patience/expertise to do them well.
#25
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 11:36
MerAnne
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Here is MY solution. This - theoretically would work anywhere, but it is a big enough pain in the nether regions that you wouldn't want to do it often. I still need to do a bit of tweaking to get actors to look in the correct direction, but I don't have actors leaping all over the place any more. Dynamic Stage (at location) in a vanilla DAO area. So what I did:
1) set up conversation, I had 3 actors Actor1/Owner, Actor2/Player, Actor3/NPC The conversation is between Actor1/Owner and Actor2/Player. Actor3/NPC enters the conversation.
2) Actor1/Owner speaks to Actor2/Player, add cinematics and/or animation as desired (never a problem with 'leaping')
3) Actor2/Player is displeased that Actor1/Owner would speak to him/her, issues order to Actor3/NPC
4) Actor3/NPC responds to Actor2/Player (1st leap).
5) Actor2/Player's line is Continue (2nd leap)
6) Actor3/NPC threatens Actor1/Owner (3rd leap)
7) Actor2/Player's line is Continue (4th leap)
8) Actor1/Owner performs action (equivalent of unspoken line - no leap)
The leaps/jumps at steps 5 & 7 appear to be the result of returning control (for positioning)of the conversation to Actor1/Owner. Yes, Actor1/Owner because Actor2/Player is positioned based on the location of Actor1/Owner, not Actor3/NPC. I suspected that only steps 4 and 6 needed to be corrected to have everyone standing in the correct positions at the end of the conversation.
I did the same thing to correct both #4 and #6. And it is relatively simple, just annoying as all get out to do.
1st set up lines as 'expected'
1) Actor3/NPC is listed on the Speaker Tag on the Dialogue tab
2) Cinematics tab is set up with all 3 actors, add poses and or animations as desired.
3) Create VO (if not already done) and preview line
4) Under Edit select Convert Line to Cutscene (name cutscene, yada yada)
5) Under Edit select Dissociate Cutscene from Line
6) Under Dialogue tab, change Speaker Tag to Actor1/Owner
7) Under Cinematics, lock RoboBrad (I'm not sure that this is necessary, but didn't want to risk robovoice)
8) Under Edit select Associate Cutscene with Line, and select the cutscene that was just disassociated
And it works. No editing of the cutscene is required so if you are a cutscene newbie like me you don't have to worry about messing things up in the cutscene editor. I don't know if Actor1/Owner is still lip syncing the words, but in my specific scene the camera didn't include Actor1/Owner so it didn't matter.
Would this work in every scenario? Probably not, but I'm still going to be happy about figuring out a solution! And having figured this out - I'm going to go try to sleep off a headache
1) set up conversation, I had 3 actors Actor1/Owner, Actor2/Player, Actor3/NPC The conversation is between Actor1/Owner and Actor2/Player. Actor3/NPC enters the conversation.
2) Actor1/Owner speaks to Actor2/Player, add cinematics and/or animation as desired (never a problem with 'leaping')
3) Actor2/Player is displeased that Actor1/Owner would speak to him/her, issues order to Actor3/NPC
4) Actor3/NPC responds to Actor2/Player (1st leap).
5) Actor2/Player's line is Continue (2nd leap)
6) Actor3/NPC threatens Actor1/Owner (3rd leap)
7) Actor2/Player's line is Continue (4th leap)
8) Actor1/Owner performs action (equivalent of unspoken line - no leap)
The leaps/jumps at steps 5 & 7 appear to be the result of returning control (for positioning)of the conversation to Actor1/Owner. Yes, Actor1/Owner because Actor2/Player is positioned based on the location of Actor1/Owner, not Actor3/NPC. I suspected that only steps 4 and 6 needed to be corrected to have everyone standing in the correct positions at the end of the conversation.
I did the same thing to correct both #4 and #6. And it is relatively simple, just annoying as all get out to do.
1st set up lines as 'expected'
1) Actor3/NPC is listed on the Speaker Tag on the Dialogue tab
2) Cinematics tab is set up with all 3 actors, add poses and or animations as desired.
3) Create VO (if not already done) and preview line
4) Under Edit select Convert Line to Cutscene (name cutscene, yada yada)
5) Under Edit select Dissociate Cutscene from Line
6) Under Dialogue tab, change Speaker Tag to Actor1/Owner
7) Under Cinematics, lock RoboBrad (I'm not sure that this is necessary, but didn't want to risk robovoice)
8) Under Edit select Associate Cutscene with Line, and select the cutscene that was just disassociated
And it works. No editing of the cutscene is required so if you are a cutscene newbie like me you don't have to worry about messing things up in the cutscene editor. I don't know if Actor1/Owner is still lip syncing the words, but in my specific scene the camera didn't include Actor1/Owner so it didn't matter.
Would this work in every scenario? Probably not, but I'm still going to be happy about figuring out a solution! And having figured this out - I'm going to go try to sleep off a headache
