41 réponses à ce sujet

[Moroch]

 In Dragon Age: Origins - Witch Hunt, the Varteral was a legend, a myth, something long since forgotten since the days of Arlathan or whatever... But in Dragon Age II, the herbalist, as brazen as you please, actually asks you to find a reagent from a bloody Varteral.... Uhhhhhh...

Next mistakes are from Legacy DLC. When you take Anders with you he has a sort of b***h fit at the Prison Tower Base and turns into Justice and goes all crazy... he summons fade demons Uhhh wtf? When Justice came with me to sort out Faynriels wet dreams, he got all pissy about simply talking to Torpor... so why is Justice suddenly hip and on board with summoning demons?
Same DLC content - Whence I returned to my abode and had a friendly heart to heart with my rivalled brother Carver, my male mage Hawke inquired:
"Weren't you upset that father spent so much time with Bethany and I?"
Surely  "Bethany and me".
To make sure you don't make this kind of error in DA3, use this trick I usey. If you are using multiple people in a sentence then quite right, you start with others before yourself. Starting with the 2nd person, going through the 3rd person(s) and finally ending on the 1st person... but do we say "I" or "me"? Well a good way to get this right is to remove the 2nd and 3rd person(s) from the sentence first.
So "Weren't you upset that father spent so much time with I?" is incorrect.

I also noticed at some point in the game another error in grammar. I cannot be entirely sure where the line was, I have a feeling it was whilst speaking with Javaris Tintop and it is the line where your male Hawke asks who stole the Saar-Gamek. Anyway, the line is
"To who?". Now you will notice of course that the subject in this sentence is "who"... that means that grammatically the sentence should have looked like this;
"To whom?"

Anyway, what I am saying is, continuity is vital to me and it is a shame you made these mistakes and several others I have not remembered/can't be bothered to mention because you won't fix them anyway.

Anyway, back to Bioware, good luck with DA3, I will be playing it. I pray you put more effort in and give us the same freedoms as in Origins.

Also one other point... how come we ended up killing like thousands upon thousands upon thousands of bandits etc in DA2? Surely people either learnt or gangs just don't get that big? There were more members in that Invisible Sisters gang than in the whole of Kirkwall (except other gangs).
Also, I could understand the Warden not being able to stop off for a pint... what, with the Blight and all, but who drinks alone?! Every day I would go to the Hanged Man with my brother, Varric and my bit on the side Isabela for drinks and Hawke is such a selfish bastard he only orders one drink! Outrageous!
Give us some social freedom.

EDIT: Made the post more friendly and mature.

Modifié par Moroch, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:50 .

[LTD]

Will you avoid paying attention to pointless nitpicking complaints/requests involving stuff like grammar mistakes or perverse LI fanboi fantasies and put some effort in making a good game?

By good I mean DA:O II

[Moroch]

Someone only read the topic title

Modifié par Moroch, 19 septembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[Reidbynature]

Someone should switch to decaf.

[Maria Caliban]

Moroch wrote...

Same DLC content - Whence I returned to my abode and had a friendly heart to heart with my rivalled brother Carver, my male mage Hawke inquired:
"Wheren't you upset that father spent so much time with Bethany and I?"
What?! Bethany and I???? You surely mean Bethany and ME!

To make sure you don't make this kind of error in DA3, I am going to share a trick I use to speak properly. If you are using multiple people in a sentence then quite right, you start with others before yourself. Starting with the 2nd person, going through the 3rd person(s) and finally ending on the 1st person... but do we say "I" or "me"? Well a good way to get this right is to remove the 2nd and 3rd person(s) from the sentence first.

So "Wheren't you upset that father spent so much time with I?" is that correct? NO! You are a full team of WRITERS... surely you know how grammar works?!?!

That's a bit embarrassing.

But I think you mean weren't, not wheren't.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 19 septembre 2012 - 05:39 .

[mousestalker]

Glad to see that someone has realized that points made in all caps are so much more convincing than points made in lower case letters.

Also that proper paragraphs are completely optional. And nothing shows you really mean it than multiple exclamation points. Except perhaps interleaved exclamation marks and question marks.

Modifié par mousestalker, 19 septembre 2012 - 05:56 .

[Daryslash]

The grammar part is unimportant. Why would you care? People make mistakes all the time. Hawke and the rest of characters are supposed to make that sort of mistakes too. Because, you know, they are people.

Now, things like the Varteral are really annoying, because they mess up the plot.

Modifié par Daryslash, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:07 .

[Maria Caliban]

The exclamation point is greatly undervalued in these degenerate times. As is passive sentence structure.

Daryslash wrote...

Why would you care?

Different people care about different things.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:15 .

[Ajensis]

Let's focus on the important things, shall we?

Also, don't throw rocks when you live in a glass house, or however that saying goes :-P

You do approach some marginally valid points that are interesting enough to spend time on, like the huge amount of anonymous people in our way, but that's just a case of gameplay taking precedence. It can rarely be 100 % realistic without the game play suffering greatly. It's one of those things you just have to accept and move on from - suspension of disbelief ;-)

The final thing I'd like to remark is that, as far as I'm aware, using "whom" is obtional. Languages constantly evolve and more archaic forms fade away slowly. Even though I'm a sucker for 'whom' (it sounds so fancy :-D), I'd never correct anyone for not using it in this day and age. You know, unless it suits the person (Morrigan being an obvious example).

So to sum up: there are more important things to worry about :-) at least from my point of view.

Modifié par Ajensis, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[Dutchess]

What confused me a bit was the lack of capital letters in the subtitles when it came to titles. For instance "Knight-Commander" is spelled with capital K and C in the codex, but in the subtitles it says "knight-commander". Not a major gripe, but it did confuse me when I wanted to write the titles.

[Daryslash]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The exclamation point is greatly undervalued in these degenerate times. As is passive sentence structure.

Daryslash wrote...

Why would you care?

Different people care about different things.

That is basically why I asked the question.

[Maverick827]

You forget that Hawke is a fictional character who may not always use the best grammar. I know in great detail when to use "I" and when to use "me" (and, more importantly, why ), but I will often use the wrong one, especially during such a heated discussion.

[thats1evildude]

Moroch wrote...

Next mistakes are from Legacy DLC. When you take Anders with you he has a sort of b***h fit at the Prison Tower Base and turns into Justice and goes all crazy... SUMMONING FADE DEMONS!!! Uhhh wtf?!?! When Justice came with me to sort out Faynriels wet dreams, he got all pissy about even TALKING to Torpor... so why is Justice suddenly hip and on board with summoning demons?!?! Yeah that was thick Bioware.

On this point, I want to note that neither Anders or Justice is in control during that scene. Corypheus makes Anders turn on Hawke.

Also, do not use alternating question and exclamation marks ever again.

[Maria Caliban]

Daryslash wrote...

That is basically why I asked the question.

I'm not sure what type of answer you're looking for. The original poster believes that professional writers and editors should have a solid grasp of the English language, and dislikes what they see as lack of polish or care in a finished work. This might be an extension of a larger cultural appreciation of the language. This might be personal desire for accuracy and adherence to well-known rules.

Maverick827 wrote...

You forget that Hawke is a fictional character who may not always use the best grammar. I know in great detail when to use "I" and when to use "me" (and, more importantly, why ), but I will often use the wrong one, especially during such a heated discussion.

If Hawke's error is a deliberate character moment, I would expect to see the same sort of grammatical breaks throughout the series.

Your suggestion moves the error from a simple mistake to the writers slapping on a character trait for no particular reason and in only one scene. I think it far more likely that they played it by ear, and 'Bethany and I' sounded better than 'Bethany and me.'

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:31 .

[Moroch]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Moroch wrote...

Same DLC content - Whence I returned to my abode and had a friendly heart to heart with my rivalled brother Carver, my male mage Hawke inquired:
"Wheren't you upset that father spent so much time with Bethany and I?"
What?! Bethany and I???? You surely mean Bethany and ME!

To make sure you don't make this kind of error in DA3, I am going to share a trick I use to speak properly. If you are using multiple people in a sentence then quite right, you start with others before yourself. Starting with the 2nd person, going through the 3rd person(s) and finally ending on the 1st person... but do we say "I" or "me"? Well a good way to get this right is to remove the 2nd and 3rd person(s) from the sentence first.

So "Wheren't you upset that father spent so much time with I?" is that correct? NO! You are a full team of WRITERS... surely you know how grammar works?!?!

That's a bit embarrassing.

But I think you mean weren't, not wheren't.

Woah... that is embarrassing!

I am not making excuses for my bad grammar/spelling whilst slating that of the Bioware writers, but I did write that up in like 5 minutes and more to the point I am not trying to market my terrible writing in any way, nor do I claim to be a professional writer or English professor.

I just wanted to point out a couple of flaws I had noticed. Also the "To whom" part was wrong dialogue. The dialogue was between Male Hawke and Bartrand with regards to the idol.

To all who noticed my grammar/spelling mistakes... annoying huh? Exactly my point, so thank you for the emphasis.

So far from this post I have come to two conclusion regarding the general consensus; 1) People literally don't care or haven't noticed the breaks in continuity and dialogue which is fair enough, bothers me but maybe not others or 2) the opportunity to flame the OP regarding their opinion on what they feel is important in a game whose predecessor was very much epic story based was so compelling that their actual opinion has been momentarily pushed aside to sate this desire.

[Vandicus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

That is basically why I asked the question.

I'm not sure what type of answer you're looking for. The original poster believes that professional writers and editors should have a solid grasp of the English language, and dislikes what they see as lack of polish or care in a finished work. This might be an extension of a larger cultural appreciation of the language. This might be personal desire for accuracy and adherence to well-known rules.

Maverick827 wrote...

You forget that Hawke is a fictional character who may not always use the best grammar. I know in great detail when to use "I" and when to use "me" (and, more importantly, why ), but I will often use the wrong one, especially during such a heated discussion.

If Hawke's error is a deliberate character moment, I would expect to see the same sort of grammatical breaks throughout the series.

Your suggestion moves the error from a simple mistake to the writers slapping on a character trait for no particular reason and in only one scene. I think it far more likely that they played it by ear, and 'Bethany and I' sounded better than 'Bethany and me.'

Thing is people make mistakes when they speak. Some make them more than others. Some people make them very rarely. I doubt there's anyone in the world who speaks with perfect grammar 100% of the time. Its not exactly immersion breaking when the writers make a very very small handful of grammatical mistakes.


As for the Varteral, those things don't die, they just keep on coming back and back and back. Since its local to Kirkwall I would presume that the locals know it as more than a legend.

A lot of the "legends" in Thedas are common knowledge in some places. The Grey Wardens growing stronger(as the nations back them more) when there's been a recent Blight and growing weaker over time the longer the time span is between Blights is an example of how the people of Thedas tend to dismiss things which are not immediately present.

Another good example are the Ashes of Andraste, assuming the Warden doesn't destroy them. The place can become a tourist attraction thanks to the work of our friend Brother Genitivi. All of a sound a legendary mythical thing becomes common knowledge.

[Wulfram]

"To who?" is correct in casual conversation. Even if it makes you sound like an owl.

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 septembre 2012 - 08:24 .

[devSin]

I support the eradication of "whom" in nearly all contexts. It's a word whose time is past.

Your other issue is valid. But editing mistakes happen, especially in DLC, I'd imagine.

You should see what they used to be like. And suggesting that they haven't put a lot of effort in improving their writing is false and doesn't really lend any strength to your criticism.

Yes, they can and should try to do better. But they have also been getting a lot better already.

[Nimpe]

You can't expect every person in Kirkwall to know every little grammar rule. Hell, a lot of people mess up the things you specified. Nobody says "whom" ever. It's more realistic this way.

Modifié par Nimpe, 20 septembre 2012 - 12:47 .

[iSignIn]

What were this grammar thing you is talked about?

[Poleaxe]

Two things. Even newspapers get the whom thing wrong these days, and I'm glad I don't know you personally.

[Conquerthecity]

 I'm all for good writing, but the grammatical stuff seems nitpicky. 

I agree about the Vateral, though. Might not have been so bad if the clan expressed some surprise at its presence.

[Moroch]

 

Wulfram wrote...
"To who?" is correct in casual conversation. Even if it makes you sound like an owl.

You could say anything is correct in casual conversation. People speak differently and have different expressions and dialects etc... Both male and female Hawke are well spoken and I would fully expect them to use the correct form of "who".

devSin wrote...
I support the eradication of "whom" in nearly all contexts. It's a word whose time is past.
Your other issue is valid. But editing mistakes happen, especially in DLC, I'd imagine.
You should see what they used to be like. And suggesting that they haven't put a lot of effort in improving their writing is false and doesn't really lend any strength to your criticism.
Yes, they can and should try to do better. But they have also been getting a lot better already.

Whom is used in only one context, when it is the subject of the sentence.
When I mentioned effort I was mostly referring to the repeating dungeons... if you don't find that slightly lazy then I would be surprised, but then again, you also support the eradication of language so you may find some kinship with that attitude.

Nimpe wrote...

You can't expect every person in Kirkwall to know every little grammar rule. Hell, a lot of people mess up the things you specified. Nobody says "whom" ever. It's more realistic this way.

 

I never expected everyone in Kirkwall to know every little grammar rule, I expect Hawke to know them, and perhaps the viscount. I use the word "whom", so your generalisation is null.

Poleaxe wrote...

Two things. Even newspapers get the whom thing wrong these days, and I'm glad I don't know you personally.

 

Newspapers aren't the retainers of spoken language and mutate with the dialect of each journalist, and it is only wrong because the person who wrote the article got it worng and the editor failed to notice it.
You are also assuming that I would correct your speech if you knew me personally. I am not the presumptuous and I don't correct people I speak to unless they are still learning the English language. Even then it is not to patronise or demonstrate my superior linguistic aptitude, it is to help educate. Put short, I don't know you and you don't know me despite what window into my soul you think this post represents.
My comments are regarding a product I purchased, not a dig at the world.

Mungolian_ wrote...

 I'm all for good writing, but the grammatical stuff seems nitpicky. 

I agree about the Vateral, though. Might not have been so bad if the clan expressed some surprise at its presence.

 

Good writing for me is good grammar as well. It's great that you haven't been affected by it. Sorry to say I have because my Hawke was usually so well versed with grammar until those moments I noticed.

Sorry to see so many people offended that I might want writes to actually do their job...

[snackrat]

He summoned Fade Demons because every fight needs to have waves.

Personally, considering how tough he is supposed to be as a party member, I'd prefer that every time you have to fight a party member (for whatever reason) they just make the member very tough, while still being alone, instead of summoning spawns to back them up.

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't like the notion that there is a lack of effort...