740 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

The other shotguns that are good or all other shotguns? The problem is the other ones that are just as good if not better (Claymore, GPS, Raeger) are all heavier. classes that don't care so much about weight have 3 good choices. classes that do care about weight only really have 1 good choice.

The lesser ones should be improved. Few people are going to switch to them if the Piranha is nerfed. They will switch to completely different weapons or keep using a slightly weaker Piranha. 

It's been a long time since I have played with the other weapons so these are my suggestions...

Scimitar, fully automatic,  faster than Piranha, even less effective at distance, deal less damage particularly to armor.

Katana, think it just needs a buff. It's a common weapon and the only niche I can see it filling is for starters before they get better weapons. There is a place for weapons like that. It should be moderately effective at level 10.

Disciple, I used this in the single player campaign and it felt very effective. But then I was charging into biotically primed targets that proceeded to get frozen. I'm not realy sure what the complaints are about this, just make the stun effect reliable. Could look to increase the magazine size.

Eviserator: Should be like a weaker multishot claymore. Good against armor and at range. I guess that's a bit like the Crusader. Might have to think about that more. Edit : I guess it is much lighter than the Crusader and less damaging, that is enough of a difference.

Modifié par Malanek999, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:03 .

[JustinSonic]

Stardusk wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

The large targets,(primes, atlases banshees and brutes) do not require accurate weapons. these enemies are so broad that all pellets hit creating the maximum dps. If we had more mobs that could be headshot on gold and plat perhaps we'd consider using that, so honestly it comes does to raw dps on bosses. Even with reload canceling the claymore does not compare. The reagar does compare, but people use it just as much.

Also wraith needs a hug RoF buff, should fire at twice the current speed or faster.

Agreed. Wraith is good but unworthy of being a UR.

Actually, if it was buffed to 3 shots per round, it'd be pretty sick.

[Blackest_Knight]

I don't know if this has been suggested but here's what I would do:

Increase the reload speed of the Piranha to ~.75s, then make it a single round per re-load animation. Still allow it to have 8 rounds in a clip, but now to reload a full clip it takes 6s. By doing this you change the entire dynamic of how the gun is used and it no longer outshines every other gun constantly. It especially lowers the Piranha's insane Boss damage capability, which is where the gun shines so brightly at the moment.

[Cyonan]

For shotguns, if i'm using a character that isn't too comfortable with taking the 1.4-2.0 weight of the heavy shotguns, that leaves me with the Disciple, Wraith, Reegar, or Piranha for options.

The Disciple is lacking considerably in power. High stagger rate is nice to have, but ultimately my other shotguns will make things dead while my Disciple will just stagger it and do a small amount of damage.

The Reegar is still pretty heavy coming in at 1.25. I do consider this to be a good alternative for something like my Kroguard who is durable enough to handle a slower cooldown on Biotic Charge, and can very easily get into the very short effective range of the Reegar.

The Wraith is my favourite shotgun, but in the end the Piranha, while dealing a good bit less per shot, fires about 3 times faster, meaning I'll kill things that take more than 1 shot or groups much faster than I would with a Wraith.

As for the heavier shotguns

Geth Plasma Shotgun I don't use much as I just don't like the feel of it, so I can't comment on it.

Graal has some off-host issues which doesn't help, but if you're charging every shot, it ends up being the same issue that the Wraith has in that anything that can survive your first shot(or groups) is probably going to get killed slower than if you had a Piranha.

Crusader offers pretty similar damage per shot while being much more accurate(once you get used to the weird aiming mechanics it has) and not firing quite as quickly, however it's hamstrung by both a very high weight as well as being very hard to level up.

Claymore was the old king of shotguns, and still matches up best against the Piranha in my opinion. It can see the same issues as the Wraith/Graal where the time between shots is so long that if you need a second(Or third since this one hits incredibly hard) then the Piranha is going to do it faster.

The N7 Piranha has a shorter effective range than any of them, except the Reegar, but it's still half decent with the Smart Choke and needing to get into CQC is a weird thing. It's a risk that can be outskilled, making it something that's really hard to consider how much of an effect it should have on the gun's power.

At the end of the day, I would say it's because the N7 Piranha offers damage output at a weight level that is only matched by the Reegar Carbine(which has a very short effective range) and the N7 Hurricane.

I don't actually use the N7 Piranha that much, but if I were min/maxing, that would be my thought process on them.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Broganisity wrote...

So if what you were looking for was my opinion of the pirahna in comparsion and what could be done to fix it? Keep its damage, weight, and fire rate intact in keeping with the games description, but lower its spare ammo capacity so you can't go long periods of time without grabbing ammo. This makes it efficient at sweeping through clustered enemies and large boss units, but not too powerful in that it can just be used for everything all the time.

I like the idea of reducing the spare ammo, but keeping the power, range, weight, etc. It'd be like the Harrier of Shotguns. In all honesty, it was this gun that should've been made Ultra Rare, not the Typhoon.

[DieselL]

i would say the best shotgun after the Piranha is the Talon

[PapaJester]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

This assumes that the damage economy is spot-on, a sujective judgement that I don't happen to agree with.   It varies too much between Geth/Reapers/Cerberus to make any one gun the One-In-All solution.  People like the Piranha for the DPS, the weight, and the clip size, but as far as I've observed, the biggest draw is that it's easy to learn how to use it effectively on a variety of classes.  And if people aren't using the Graal or GPS as much as you'd like, it's probably because there's a little too steep of a learning curve on them for the casual gamer.  As for the Crusader, sorry, but it sucks.  Lower the weight on it, and it might be worth considering.

[stefbomb]

I prefer using the Disciple. Unless I want to actually kill stuff. Then I use the Piranha.

I use the GPS off-host. Because I love not hitting enemies.

[ParatrooperSean]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

If you're trying to find out why it's so widely used, honestly I think it's the low weight. Also, automatic weapons are easier to use than single shot weapons, especially if there's a long reload time.

As a total package it is a very good shotgun, its one drawback is having very low accuracy. If you want to shoot at things from long range, forget it if you don't have lots of accuracy buffs, i.e. Devastator Mode + smart choke. And even that will only take you into medium range territory.

In summary, it's getting a lot of use because so many classes can use it due to the weight, and being an automatic also makes it easy to use.

Modifié par ParatrooperSean, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:09 .

[DoubleHell]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

I would leave the ROF and Clip size alone. Drop damage (at level X) by about 20%, but tighten up the pellet spread by about 20%.

[shards7]

I still use the eviserator. A great balanced shotgun. And reeger for plats.

[comrade8472]

Claymore used it so much! I got tired of using it.
Geth plasma "shot gun" more effective on Host,
and don't host much. Why? No one likes my 2mb download/ less than 1mb upload, internet speed
Graal non charged damage is not enough. kishok "Harpoon gun" seems better/ more effective than it.
Disciple used it alot got tired of it. / and never got the hang of it's wierd reload animation and when it was actually loaded. and doesn't stagger enough. (would like to see it stagger better and mabey at 1100 N of force.)
Piranah mostly just use it on Destroyer and Vorcha sent.
Vorcha Sent: mostly use flamer cluster nades and mattock. Piranah mostly for up close. since reapers like it close. won't even get 25 kill medal for shot guns. silver or gold medal for tech kills. (if it's not dead = burn it, if it's dead = burn it, if it's a team mate = Flamer, (Just to be safe) if it's an empty hallway?= Flamer.
Destroyer: human. get's a Human gun. think of it as a Flak cannon.

Piranah mostly it is the sound when using it. and the animation...  and the movie expendables auto shot gun

Reegar don't like using it. ( not saying it's good or bad )

Modifié par comrade8472, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:10 .

[ParatrooperSean]

DoubleHell wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

I would leave the ROF and Clip size alone. Drop damage (at level X) by about 20%, but tighten up the pellet spread by about 20%.

Really, all you need to do is add some weight to it and leave the rest alone.

[Maker MEDA]

Disciple shouldn't even be on this list. Who uses the Disciple on Platinum even on Gold? It's not even effective on Bronze and Silver to speak of.

It's a stagger weapon, that does no damage, but it doesn't fire rapidly, it has low clip size, if I wanted a shot gun that doesn't deal damage but effectively stagger most mooks, I still wouldn't turn to this weapon. It doesn't do its job at the most basic level. It's selling the player short.

Like the Wraith, it needs a whole lot of fire rate increase to make it worthwhile. I don't mind a weapon that I can put Wrap ammo in there and rapidly strip barrier the way Asari pistol does it, and stagger enemies as well, all the better. But it lack minimal speed to do its duty, it's a game breaking weapon this.

The Disciple as a gun concept can be platinum worthy. Shame to see it on dust everywhere. This gun should have a fire rate closer to even superior to the Scimitar to match.

Modifié par Maker MEDA, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:22 .

[blackwidow314]

I use it when i feel like i need a weapon that can handle a boss like target if/when it gets up in my face. I don't want to feel underwhelmed and the constant need to fall back to another position when i have an enemy that needs dealing with and all i can do is chip away at it. It allows me to place a large amount of damage in a small amount of time to a large boss like target in CQC while being forgiving if i miss a shot. A few other weapons also fill this role, for example the claymore can do this but requires reload cancelling to do so. the reegar does also but the 50% reduction to armored targets lowers its functionality and forces you into a required setup.

I would like to have more options available to me that allows me to do the same job in whatever way required (eg, PPR).

[Asebstos]

I don't see people saying that "the other shotguns are good" so much as "some of the other shotguns are good". I've never seen anyone claim the Disciple is anything but terrible and the ROF on the Wraith is generally considered too low. When the Piranha has those two for competition as a caster shotgun is it any wonder that people go with the Piranha considering the DPS differences?

[Pedro Costa]

Rifneno wrote...

It's lightweight and provides good damage.

Pretty much. It is the only caster-friendly shotgun that doesn't take forever to unlock (looking at you, Wraith) that's actually decent.
And even if I had a devently leveled Wraith, I still wouldn't use it - too slow RoF.

You guys have a nice shotgun range, you do. The problem is that most are too heavy for the classes I play the most (adepts and vanguards)

[Maker MEDA]

The disciple need to have major decrease cool down down between a shot in and out of the animation, reload, anything associate with the handling of the gun, I need to spend little to no time at all while I switch back to my biotics. It doesn't do that it's too slow, everything is too slow about this gun for Platinum even for Gold.

Modifié par Maker MEDA, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:17 .

[Asebstos]

Maker MEDA wrote...
It's a stagger weapon, that does no damage, but it doesn't fire rapidly, it has low clip size, if I wanted a shot gun that doesn't deal damage but effectively stagger most mooks, I still wouldn't turn to this weapon. It doesn't do its job at the most basic level. It's selling the player short.

Its also a stagger weapon that fails to stagger reliably. IIRC all of the pellets need to hit for it to stagger.

[BIOFAN]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

I don't know to what type of gamer you guys are trying to appeal but I'm the type of gamer that wants to feel progression in the game as I become more and more powerful.  I do not want to go back to the avengers or the shurikens of the game on any game.  I want the best weapons and equipment available in the game cause it gives me the sense of accomplishment I'm looking for in a game.

If you guys don't understand that then I dont know what are you doing making games.

That goes for all the types of weapons available in your game, pistols, machine guns, sniper rifles, assault rifles and shotguns.  You can have 5 more type of weapons available making it 10 and I'm still gonna use the ones that are the best depending on the team loadout and synergy.

Modifié par BIOFAN, 20 septembre 2012 - 08:53 .

[Valmar]

Why would I still take the Piranha instead of any of those? Well, it would be because I'm playing Destroyer, Turian, Geth Infilitrator, or Krogan Vanguard. With the right build these classes can really milk the Piranha and use it at its utmost potential. For me, these are the only ones I'd ever use this shotgun on though. Though so far I only use it on the Destroyer, as a backup weapon when bosses start getting close. I can see using it on the others I mentioned though.

I know I may be the minority since everyone seems to think it needs nerfing, but I really don't like the Piranha that much on any other character. Its horribly inaccurate and has high recoil. It needs the smart choke unless you plan on being a CQC build. Now with my Destroyer who has a delicious rate of fire, weapon damage bonuses, accuracy and increased ammo capacity it's very effective at destroying stuff. It's a great shotgun to use with such a build because it really takes advantage of it and uses its full potential.

But without all those perks and mods, Im just not a big fan of it. Prefer the Reeger myself, though its heavier so I may not use it on a caster class. Due to the weight and forgiving nature of missed shots with Piranha, I can see it being okay on some caster classes that like to get into the thick of things. Though personally I'd prefer using a pistol or SMG on a caster, not a shotgun - even a light one. Still, its an option for people who enjoy shotguns. Important to point out though that these caster cases with a Piranha will not be getting the same effective results with it that a Destroyer or Geth Infiltrator will be getting. Just because it can be really good on one class doesn't mean it will be on another.

Those who call OP on it just because some Destroyer is using it like a weapon of mass destruction is pretty unfair to classes who may want to use it that don't receive such wonderful weapon bonuses. It'd only help make it more reliant on certain classes and builds to be truly useful.

Thats just my two cents though.

[OhPa2]

I understand the damage economy concept but who sets the point of reference?

Bioware made the game, at all levels, harder - before Platinum.  Some people liked that.  Others did not.

Many very experienced players play a good deal of Bronze because it's less of a grind - when you're not looking for the "challenge" - and it's a fun way to relax.  Crap weapons are not fun and not conducive to a relaxing gaming experience.  It's really nice to use a good weapon and it's more than frustrating when one of the few good or popular weapons gets nerfed under the pretext of "balance".

As to your question; I'm not big on shotguns.  I have a Reegar X - FINALLY - and I'll use it on occassion for certain teams and matches.  I'd like to use a Piranha but mine is only at level I.  Unfortunately I suffer from the Nerfed before I can get it leveled up syndrome.

/edit - added additional text

Modifié par OhPa2, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[najzere]

BIOFAN wrote...
I don't know to what type of gamer you guys are trying to appeal but I'm the type of gamer that wants to feel progression in the game as I become more and more powerful.  I do not want to go back to the avengers or the shurikens of the game on any game.  I want the best weapons and equipment available in the game cause it gives me the sense of accomplishment I'm looking for in a game.

If you guys don't understand that then I dont know what are you doing making games.

That goes for all the types of weapons available in your game, pistols, machine guns, sniper rifles, assault rifles and shotguns.  You can have 5 more type of weapons available making it 10 and I'm still gonna use the ones that are the best depending on the team loadout and synergy.

Yes, this exactly. No one likes going backwards and it's especially painful in this game where it takes forever to unlock things with the random store.

[ElementDuck]

I don't use the Piranha much at all. I much prefer the Graal or Claymore. That said, the Piranha is a nice balance between weight and firepower for some characters like the Paladin. Oh right, and the Reegar is also used a lot by me.

So...

Claymore: I occasionally use this for characters who don't care about cooldown. I prefer it to the Piranha in those cases.

Reegar: I love this gun. It has a range limit which forces you to get close, and I like to get up in an enemy's face before melting it. I've used this a lot (probably more than any other gun), though I've been using the Graal more lately.

GPS: I just don't like this gun. If i want a gun that shoots projectiles and can charge up, I'll go with the Graal for it's wonderful stagger and headshot bonus.

Piranha: I use this on my Paladin, and not really anyone else. It's not as fun as the Graal or Reegar, but it does have a better weight, which is why the Paladin gets it.

Disciple, Scimitar, Wraith, Eviscerator, Katana: I just don't like these weapons enough to choose them over my favorites. I prefer weapons with a more unique/exotic design and output. I would probably use the Disciple more if it was buffed.

Modifié par ElementDuck, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:19 .