740 réponses à ce sujet

[Beastpwnguy7]

Its extremely light and tears through bosses and mooks like nothing. However, it has terrible range and you need to be close enough to tickle the enemy to use it on a class that has no accuracy bonuses. I personally only use it on the n7 paladin, it synergizes very well with him IMO. On most other classes I'll use the claymore or GPS. If im worried about weight ill take the talon, which is pretty much a shotgun and my highest UR at IX

[Amnesiotic]

Buffing the Wraith's ROF would also help curb rampant Piranha use. Hell, give Wraith a 3 shot clip and make it fire 15% faster.

[Derek Hollan]

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

[dumael]

Derek Hollan wrote...
So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader.

I'm going to add in the Talon to that list (as it's a pistol shotgun).

For casters, most of the weapons on that list are simply too heavy outright (Crusader, Claymore) or too heavy for my tastes (GPS, Graal, Reegar). That leaves me with the choices of Talon, Disciple, Piranha, Wraith. My problem with the Wraith is its RPM otherwise I find it deals sufficient damage to mop up survivors of my powers. The Disciple I feel is simply outclassed by the Talon, as I take a small hit to C/D for a nice damage increase. The piranha is has excellent damage to weight ratio and is more forgiving on missed shots that its competitors due to higher RPM and clipsize. The piranha's range weakness is addressed with smart choke + power/cover/maneuvering reliance.

For 'semi casters'/Cooldown irrelevant setups that I want to use a shotgun on the (magnificent) GPS, Reegar come into play along with the Graal. Those characters are likely to be tougher/have TC, again negating the piranha's weakness, as I can close the distance to the enemy safely.

My suggestion for balancing the piranha would be apply a damage modifier against armor (similar to the talon's bonus against shields afair, except reducing damage), saving banshees, brutes, ravagers, atlases, turrets, pyros, primes from the piranha's near unstoppable onslaught.

As it stands I see that with shredder/ap ammo/warp ammo/cyro ammo (I vaguely recall this weaking armor, could be wrong), the piranha second weakness ('low' damage per pellet against armor) is mostly compensated for.

Just my 2c.

Modifié par dumael, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:41 .

[OblivionDawn]

Claymore - I use it more than the Piranha, it's the ultimate weapon, after all.
Geth Plasma Shotgun - I rarely host, and this tends to be affected by lag, so I don't bother.
Graal Spike Thrower - Same as GPS.
Disciple - It sucks.
Reegar Carbine - It's kinda boring to me, that's just a personal thing.
Wraith - It pretty much sucks. Could do with some more damage. It should be the Black Widow of the Claymore, I think.
Crusader - I'd rather use a sniper rifle.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:38 .

[The fool you should have eaten]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Never tried my piranha out.  I hear that its pretty good.  I think it's at level 4...  But I will check that later.  Graal and Crusader abolutely rock on a weapons based Turian Sentinel, which happens to be my favorite build that I have. Shotguns, and I mean all of the ones that you listed are a ton of fun to use, and my only wish is that I didn't have to stun enemies with overload to actually hit them.


Edit: I was close.  It's a 5.

Modifié par The fool you should have eaten, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:39 .

[JustinSonic]

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

It's just really fine the way as it is, but if you guys are insisting that it's changed, then change the skin on the weapon as well.

[Guglio08]

Instead of bringing the Piranha in line with the other shotguns, bring the other shotguns in line with the Piranha? People use it because it's good. People don't use the other ones as much because they're not as good as the Piranha. It's very simple.

Many classes require lighter weapons, except the lighter weapons tend to suck unless they are pistols. There are few good Assault Rifles. The best one is an Ultra Rare. The proliferation of armored enemies renders SMGs mostly unusable. The Shield Gate / lack of Boss Head shots invalidates many Sniper Rifles. In order to be effective against the majority of enemies, a player is naturally drawn to Shotguns or Pistols!

This is not a problem with the Piranha, this is a problem with the weapon balance on a whole. But it's easier to blame one gun because it would require less thorough analysis and subsequent changes.

Modifié par Guglio08, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:38 .

[Shadowomega23]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

To bring it inline would mean to fix the other weapons.

General tighten shotties cof by 15% (except for the Claymore, Piranha, Grall, GPS)

Diciple increase the damage slightly or boost the damage to health & barrier percent value, increase stagger reliablity, increase clip size by 2 

Grall/GPS change their weapon projectile behaivor so they work when your not host and reduce the charge to full time.

GPS Reduce enemies likeliness to dodge

Wraith clip size up by 1, decrease the time between shots or slight boost to damage

Crusader lighten by a decent ammount, or increase penitration distance & give it a damage percentage boost vs armor, but due to it being a promo weapon not sure how its x values as set.

Another Idea is to bring in a new shotty that has four to five round clip size slightly slower rof then the scimitar, but damage comparable to a rare version of the Katana but have a pretty heffy weight. ( I Have stated before the Katana feels like a Remmington 870 from Battlefield 3 but do to it being a common and low damage for upper difficulties, its not worth it.)

As posted earlier a Uncommon Magazine upgrade for shotties would also be another way to bring the other shotties on to par as well. As of right now the Pirahna needs both the Smart Choke and Shredder mods to be worth while to use.

ps (slightly being less then less then or equal to 5%)

Modifié par Shadowomega23, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:40 .

[Ulrich282]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

I'm not using the Piranha. I'm using the Wraith.

If I'm not using the Wraith, I'm using the Claymore.

^

[TheExile1]

 If you get anything out of this, a buff for the wraith is really being asked for, preferably ROF, slight damage buff and one extra shot.  

[Homey C-Dawg]

If you have to do something to it, reducing the spare ammo capacity sounds like the best idea to me.

It would make it the same gun, but more dependent on hugging ammo crates to counteract it's power, like the Harrier.

[ValorOfArms777]

the problematic is the certain shotguns are too unusable the claymore blows all out of water due to it's high grade power and reload cancel the piranha is infact a okay gun and doesn't need to change the claymore does they are the two tops of heavyweight and lightweight the disciple can't rival and the wraith can't rival the crusader don't have a scope so it's hard to aim it per say cause of the kick and we have lesser levels of it again the other shotguns need s buff up the Claymore needs to have the reload cancel alter an the piranha should be the staple brand for the main article of balance it's a fairly even gun usable on standards but not fully usable on all standards the DAMN claymore is the ****ing nitch of god shotguns it shoots fastest of all of them only beaten by a reagar and a piranha it's reload cancel is thanks to that it needs the reload cancel to be pulled back a bit to slow it down a degree and again buff the rest of the shotguns especially the Disciple which needs a massive change of power give it barrier/shield busting even armor busting with it's damage OR raise the damage all round for a light weight shotgun it really does dwindle just a TAD bit higher than a darn katana in usefulness the scimitar has 8 shots sure but.... gosh shouldn't it deal a tad more? Wraith....yeah claymore hates hit make sit obsolete obliviously harder to get and lower in usefulness than a claymore

[Shia Luck]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

ok.. info you need...

I have all (relevant) rares at X, URs and promtional are at 2 or 3. Been playing since demo. I'd like to have no more than 3 characters using the same guns. I don't always feel I have that choice.

The guns...

Claymore, (with reload cancelling) does huge damage(DPS). This is fun. (I use it on FHSol, KSent and maybe an infil for a change, but I find infils the least interesting class, which is not to say I never use them. )

Graal is fun, challenging and does great damage.. its only issue is guardian shields. (I use this on VSol but guardian shileds are an issue. I'd give this the ability to penetrate guardian shields like kishock does as it's main competition is GPS, which is much easier to aim.)

GPS.. (see Graal) (I use this on GI for the RP..  guardian shields are still an issue. It's aiming niche doesn;t appeal to me, too easy in a way?, but I aprove of variety and it's ability to stagger hantoms. Perhaps that should be given to another weapon, perhaps, disciple? *cheeky grin*  GPS is a very powerful weapon tho, justified by its weight.. )

Wraith, I'd like to see a buff, (but I still use it on FNovaGuard because we have a nice colour scheme thing going on. For a UR it really needs a RoF buff imho.

Crusader, .. is it made of lead? Does the mass effect field increase the weapon mass? Only shotgun that doesn't work through shield gate? I see very little good about this weapon.

Reegar carbine: astounding damage, incredibly short range... great niche weapon  (I use this on VSent and Kroguard)

Disciple: The concept is brilliant, a caster shotgun, but it needs to stagger more efectively OR do more damage, OR increase RoF. For a caster, making it a definite stagger even if only 4 pellets hit would be a good move (seems to need all 8 to hit?). A slight increase in RoF wouldn't hurt either. Similar to how you changed the falcon. Make it niche or increase damage and make it kill things. (I don't use this on any class because .. sorry but it sucks *cheeky grin* ... I loved it to bits while I was levelling up 6 months ago, but it just doesn;t get enough better.)

Piranha: the lightest except disciple ( ok, maybe katana etc but disciple is gold too.. the comparison between Piranha and disciple is painful... for 40% CD (a character will have 170%+ CD anyway in the worst case, Piranha does double the damage.)
Piranha: The largest shotgun clip in the game, which rewards poor aim.
Piranha: The highest RoF of any shotgun in the game, which rewards poor aim.
Piranha: It's automatic.. = 1: panic ; 2: hold down fire button; 3; ??(hope)?; 4: Profit

I love the Piranha .. but I can never honestly claim it is balanced to other shotguns. The only negative it has is spread/range... but a smart choke does wonders. Accuracy powers make a huge difference.  meaning it's only negative is weight, and what does that mean to Infils or destroyer/demolisher/KSent/etc? 

Reduction in clip size as suggested by Eric is a very good move.

Changing weight just means it becomes yet another shotgun that casters don't want to use. Defies description.


Thoughts:

If you want to make something a caster shotgun (or make the disciple a decent one?) .. make one that automatically empties it's clip in 2 seconds so the reload animation starts b4 the typical 2.46 seconds@200% CD  and the next power can reload cancel almost automatically is my suggestion. (ok I mean the disciple should do that lol...  easy to use is important too.)

Suggestions: More niche guns. The acolyte is inspired. Graal, kishock, falcon, scorpion, even GPS (tho that's not for me really) (presumably the javalin too, to its fans, tho I really don't get that gun) make this game way more fun for more people.

Have fun

[JustinSonic]

TheExile1 wrote...

 If you get anything out of this, a buff for the wraith is really being asked for, preferably ROF, slight damage buff and one extra shot.  

THIS.

...but don't nerf the Piranha.

[prog_bassist]

I rarely use the Pirahna anyway, but if you nerf it, people aren't necessarily going to keep using shotguns. Pistol and SMG usage will go up, so perhaps a preemptive nerf is in order if the reasoning that overused weapons are nerfed is used.

[Machazareel]

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

That is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion.

[RNG God]

My personal opinion:

Out of all the shotguns, this is why the Piranha hits home for many, compared to everything else.

Disciple- Don't get me started. I wouldn't take it to bronze. Doesn't do what it says on the tin and "Caster weapon" is a total load of BS. I can take pistols that do it's job better than it.

Graal- A personal Fav. Of mine, but not reliable off host.

GPS- Suffers the same problem to a lesser extent.

Eviscerator- Doesn't really compete in the same area, I consider the Evis. to be doing about what the disciple wishes it could do, but better.

Scimitar- Peashooter.

Katana- Throw it away the first time you get a new shotgun. It's a starting weapon, does what it says on the tin.

Claymore- Both do the same thing, but the Piranha is more forgiving. It's not really the raw damage that makes it a hit, it's the fact a casual player can pick it up and use it with ease.

Reegar- I'd consider it on the same page as the Piranha, but more focus on shields. Synergises well on Vorcha due to disruptor ammo constantly priming and flamer constantly detonating. You'd take the Piranha over it due to it being more general

Wraith- Fails really badly. Can't compete with Claymore due to reload cancel. Based on your Rarity = Difficulty comparison, the wraith should be the pellet, more powerful brother of the crusader. But it just doesn't measure up. As an Evis. upgrade for casters, yes it's nice. but as a weapon, the Piranha is better simply because the Wraith can't get the shots out fast enough.

I also had an EA rant typed up, but I'll find some old thread to grave dig to avoid filling the forum up. Cheers!

[OneTrueShot]

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

Removing shots is removing damage. Reloading time is time not doing damage. Don't forget that.
Especially considering with the Pirahna, you are most likely reloading infront of an enemies face...

Modifié par OneTrueShot, 19 septembre 2012 - 10:43 .

[CaoSlayer]

The Piranha role is close combat fast firing shotgun, right now we have four shotguns with similar role:

Reegar
Piranha
Disciple
Scimitar

Of those four, two are utterly useless, the scimitar and the disciple since Reegar eats shields so fast that stuns very quickly rendering the disciple useless and the scimitar is plain useless.

The Reegar and Piranha are balanced with each other, the Piranha is balanced DPS good against anything and the Reegar deals way more damage to shields while being weak against armour but have the advantage of multitasking so you can heavy melee and reegar or charge and reegar making it much more reliable for close range power classes like a kroguard or vorcha.

Actually the only thing broken with the piranha are the classes that use it, usually a fast firing weapon sucks against armour but thanks to the damage bonuses, it gets negated. If you nerf the armour damage, then will become useless compared to Reegar or Hurricane.

Your problem is that you are trying to nerf the weapon so the optimal build becomes balanced but then, the weapon will become totally useless for the rest of the classes.

I think you should implement a cap of damage so it only affects the most insane damage stacking while leaving it as a reliable weapon.

And what about if you turn the scimitar and the piranha into something similar to the mattock-harrier?
The Scimitar deals more damage than piranha but needs to be manually shot and weights less.
If you ask me, with that dps, the piranha should weight like a Graal or a GPS, but weight will not balance it since the potential comes from classes that ignores the cooldown.

[tamfa]

I use the reegar or the piranha depending upon class I'm playing. I use either one of these over the others because they are more forgiving when I have a lag infested game. I don't like loading up and wasting consumables mid way through a game when it gets all lagged. Either of these 2 shutguns allow me to play through the lag. Their rate of fire/damage per shot allow me to miss targets that jump from location to location instead of move smoothly and still be effective.

1 shot/slow firing high damage weapons are great if you always host or always get paired with non-laggy hosts. They don't work that great for those of us that don't.

[CerebralCaptain]

For me it's the light weight, and rapidness of fire, It shreds enemies quite nicely.

[OhPa2]

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

Make it a 1 shot reduction and let's get back to having happy thoughts.

[SectiplaveB4]

OneTrueShot wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

Removing shots is removing damage. Reloading time is time not doing damage. Don't forget that.
Especially considering with the Pirahna, you are most likely reloading infront of an enemies face...

Yeah that is the over all point though to reduce the DPS of this weapon as it is still the #1

I think it works, but I would have also considered increasing it's weight if you want to see it used less.