740 réponses à ce sujet

[mugetsu999]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Big Jack Shepard wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

Psst...did you notice all of the Wraith feedback?

Hehe, to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing a Wraith buff too.  So I won't say it will never happen.  I just might have a hard time selling it to Eric.

this is the way people should think about when messing with guns just make them heavier or decrease rof  or decrease the clip size then people might not jump down each others throats about them

Modifié par mugetsu999, 19 septembre 2012 - 11:01 .

[siris98]

i rarely use the piranha, i usually use the claymore or reegar

[Asebstos]

CMalk wrote... it have 8 holes on it ammo wheel! artistic integrity or whatever u call it!!

Yeah, but guns in the ME universe don't work that way, Pirahna cylinder and Typhoon casings not withstanding.

[CMalk]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Big Jack Shepard wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

Psst...did you notice all of the Wraith feedback?

Hehe, to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing a Wraith buff too.  So I won't say it will never happen.  I just might have a hard time selling it to Eric.

If eric is the problem between a wraith buff or no... we can solve that...

[P51Mus7ang]

DPS and Weight as a 2nd weapon, when it comes to a boss it's the only one that will perform if cooldown is an issue.

That said there are weapon combinations other than what I run often which is a Harrier and Piranha, if weight isn't an issue I will take a Claymore or if in a headshot mood the Crusader, I love the GPS which many of my friends do not care for however it just doesn't do the trick on high levels against a boss if I run out of ammo with say the Harrier.

Disciple and the Scimitar are low level weapons, I mainly run gold.

Reegar is perfect if I want to play the Vorcha, works well on others but I am not a CQB on Gold, I like distance.

Katana....never used it and I have never seen it in a match.

[Maker MEDA]

It's a pretty tough job to try and balance out guns that were made with Platinum in mind, and then with guns that were only made for Gold and no more.  4 levels of difficulty, no guns are created equal.

But just as N7 classes are superior in many instances, like Destroyer is to a regular human soldier, so I think the same with the weapons. If they nerf the Piranha, at least give us new Ultra Rare weapons that does the job comfortably, or with margins, to handle what Platinum has to offer.

We need that upper hand one way or another. And we shouldn't be constrained by weapons that came before from yesterdays to drag us down.  No matter how the GPS and Graal is buffed, they still come ill equipped basic design concept to the need of crowd control or rapid boss kills that is Platinum.

4 bosses swarming players location and people losing clip size, not a pretty sight.  And x4 on that on later Plat waves. Make so little sense.

Modifié par Maker MEDA, 19 septembre 2012 - 11:10 .

[Rokayt]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Big Jack Shepard wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

Psst...did you notice all of the Wraith feedback?

Hehe, to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing a Wraith buff too.  So I won't say it will never happen.  I just might have a hard time selling it to Eric.

Your names rhyme! You probably have an easeir time selling him stuff then anyone else! You must!!!

[Razerath]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

I'll make this somewhat short since you are reading through so much Derek. I think the best way to "balance" the Piranha ( compared to other shotguns only ) is to reduce it's damage only. The RoF and clip size are what make the Piranha useful for crowd control.

Without numbers, it should take less time for the Piranha to kill an Atlas ( from full shields ) than the Claymore. Not too much less, the Piranha is supposed to be good.

Thanks for this topic and being so involved as always Derek.

Off topic question, are we getting another play with developers weekend again? That was so much fun and the developer I played with continued to play games for a long time after. I wish he still was as active as before, awesome teamate!

[AaronEh]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Claymore - Excellent gun use regularly on many characters.
Geth Plasma Shotgun - Don't often host - never quite got the hang of using it.
Graal - Don't often host projectile weapons sometimes difficult off host.
Disciple - Damage not high enough
Reegar - Excellent gun use regularly on many characters.
Wraith - Nice damage but RoF is too low for my playstyle would use if Rof was greater than 60 rpm
Crusader - Pretty heavy  - prefer the Sabre
Piranha - Nice gun, high dps easy to operate - Point and click.

[Torvenral]

Because its the only good weapon for GI

[N7 Lisbeth]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

It's not that other shotguns "suck," per se. It's because they fill a very specific niche, that of a powerful slow shooter. The pirhana fills a fast-oh-sh*t CQC niche for people that use slow weapons.

It's pointed out many times that it's best to pair weapons up -- one slow firing, one fast. By attacking one of the easiest of the fast CQC weapons, you attack the very nature of that playstyle. (There aren't too many fast CQC weapons out there.)

Personally, you won't catch me using any single-shot weapon. I simply do not like them.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 19 septembre 2012 - 11:10 .

[rootvigo]

Very wise words indeed sir, but your are missing some key ideals.. Longevity; and your wonderful game is almost expired.

To maximize any profits left available, give us what we want..

I've spent over $500 to enjoy top tier weapons.
Everyone else hits the rocket glitch for far better results.

Hopefully what I donated went far enough to feed your family's handsomely.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I'd be a happy panda if this thread somehow netted us a Wraith buff.

[Gezar149]

I used to use the piranha on my Shadow. SS then unload a clip, Its light allowing for short cooldows, it almost seems like it was made for shadows since its terrible at long range but deadly at close quarters.

[KoJotP]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Why the truth gets ignored? They do suck and here is why:
Both GPS and GST require charge up to be actually effective (against lower tier of enemies anyway) and they are really susceptible to lag issues and with EA servers that seems to be the case more often than not. Also, neither of those has full auto (explanation why this is an issue later) and provide only 3-4 clips of spare ammo
Disciple does hardly any damage
Claymore - well, i'm not a fan of one shotters, especially with the lag and clunky hit register (sometimes i could swear i hit something but ME3 states otherwise); its overkill on mooks and a bit too slow on bossess
Reegar - great weapon if you fight at 10 feet range - outside that limit it's no use; and sometimes you just need to bunker down and hold position, while fending off oponents from mid range; its also a bit heavyish and has reduced damage against armor which is counterproductive on higher difficulties
Wraith - ultra rare which oddly enough is my highest UR so far - still feels a lot like lackluster; small clip size makes it feel like two-shot (+) gutted (-) Claymore; on the plus side its not that heavy, fast reload and strangely accurate for it's stats but still - it's an ultra rare and only two-shot 
Crusader - increasingly more powerful but still feels like sniper than shotgun - works better at medium and long range than in close quarters; its quite havy, slow rate of fire and absurdly high recoil while the hitbox seems to be really tiny (seems to be bugged too if fired too fast -shots just don't connect, might be the hitbox fault), also, for promotional weapon it's damage is a laughing stock, even despite all the buffs it got. 

Out of them all all shotguns have their niche while the Piranha seems to be most universal and most suited to my needs, while the drawback are manageable with proper playstyle. In my personal opinion shotgun should be close to middle range weapon with MASSIVE damage output - either by being slow shooting but obliterating everything in some cone in front of me (not just one enemy) or exactly like the piranha does - being able tu burst short series of shots with medium rate of fire, with every shot packing some punch that in effect leave pile of corpses behind. Neither GPS or GST does that. They hit too soft with single shots, charged up shots are still too weak and prevent quick succession of single shots. Shotgun shouldn't be a weapon to snipe headshots with. That's what pistol is for in short range and sniper rifle in long range. Body shots of shotguns should either kill on spot or at least knock enemies down. Unfortunately mooks die too fast and bosses and half -bosses are immune to everything except pure damage (and sometimes even to that)
Piranha still has some negative sides but when taken into account they dont bother that much. The recoil it still awful so either i just unload and miss like half of shots or just use two-three shot burst and lower my dps. Long range and "aimed" shots are just a laugh, unless on Destroyer or GI where they are still pretty much passable, but those two make pretty much every weapon with some decent punch a WoMD. Still, the weapon suits me well because it does what I expect it to be doing.

All in all the problem is not that Piranha is so  much better choice than other shotguns. Its just other shotguns make much worse choice than Piranha which is one of the rare weapons that hit the sweet spot of being comfortable to use and actually performing the role its meant for. Suit up like Barney says, not level down. You people made a ton of junk weapons, also "sell" them on random basis and when once in a while you succeed to make something actually balanced or really closed to it, then instead of bringing the rest of the junk up to the par, You decide to ruin it because people prefer it over that other junk.

[cronshaw]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Because the DPS is silly and it doesn't weigh anything. Slap some AP ammo on it and any character can rip up platnium. The whole "you have to get close" thing is completly overstated and frankly not that much of an issue. I know you guys are thinking about lowering the clip size, but i really think it should weigh about the same as the Graal and GPS.

[bigkahuna077]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Because aside from the reegar the piranha is the only shotgun that feels like your using a shotgun and not a sniper rifle without a scope, it is a weapon made for CQC like most shotguns should be but atm the other shotguns just don't have that feeling.

[Titus Thongger]

Torvenral wrote...

Because its the only good weapon for GI

are yoooou serious?

The GI makes every weapon good.

[Djarknaein]

Can't load cancel on console, need at least 5 rounds at close range Disciple not enough damage.

[Homey C-Dawg]

BTW Derek, this public discussion is an excellent way to ease people into the coming balance changes. Perhaps more threads like this would help to avoid some of the guttural backlash that people exhibit every Tuesday.

Cheers. Keep up the good work.

[ParatrooperSean]

bigkahuna077 wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Because aside from the reegar the piranha is the only shotgun that feels like your using a shotgun and not a sniper rifle without a scope, it is a weapon made for CQC like most shotguns should be but atm the other shotguns just don't have that feeling.

I assume you're not talking about real world shotguns, because neither the reegar nor the piranha even come close. The Claymore, yes.

[I_pity_the_fool]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Hmm. For most classes, cooldowns are very important (less so for infiltrators). With this in mind:

The Reegar I find to be a little too short range for anything but a vorcha or a vanguard. I like to fight at mid range though, so others may disagree.

The GPS is a very nice weapon that I use quite often. Since I play unknown/unknown/gold, guardians are a bit of a problem with it. Personally, I mentally compare other guns with the GPS, because it's my standard of what a good gold-tier weapon is.

The Claymore is a superb infiltrator weapon, perhaps the best, effective at surprisingly long ranges, but too heavy for casting classes. It's a fairly well balanced weapon as well. I find that rather than having to use the piercing mod and the extended barrel, as I do with practically every other weapon, I must equip the smart choke and something else. Choosing that something else is an interesting decision.

The Graal is unrelaible off host. Unlike the GPS there doesn't seem to be any tracking.

The disciple is light, but has huge recoil and not a great deal of damage. The staggar is very nice though, although the GPS produces staggar more reliably. I could imagine carrying this as a second weapon in cerberus games to deal with phantoms, if it staggared a little more often. I keep meaning to try it out on my melee krentinel, because I am a big babby who cannot aim his heavy melees properly.

I think a good 10-20% buff to damage would keep it competitive with the GPS. If we also increase the clip size so that one clip is big enough to take down a phantom, we could be in business.

The low rate of fire of the Wraith takes some getting used to. You can adapt to it, but I'm always constantly surprised when I press the LMB and nothing happens. It's nonetheless a gun I'm quite pleased with. It's light enough to use on engineers and gun-sentinels.

The Piranha is inaccurate, but that difficulty can be overcome with a smart choke, to make it viable at medium range, and marksman and huntermode turn it almost into a sniper rifle. Reapers, atlases and primes are gigantic and cannot be missed at mid-range. Phantoms dance around enough that a huge spread is almost an advantage. And of course none of the maps really require long range weapons. Hydra, London and Condor come close, but even there, given the long range accuracy of cerberus and the geth, it's best to find more enclosed spaces and hole up there.

I have a question for you if I may. In the coalesced file, in bioweapon\\sfxgamecontent\\sfxdamgetype\\$weaponname there's a variable called 'woundpct' set for each weapon. What exactly does this do? Does it have any effect in MP? I get the impression sometimes that there are game mechanics that the community here has absolutely no idea they exist.

[Maker MEDA]

The only time I see people managing Platinum well is high level players who has their ultra rare maxed or nearly maxed. But that takes so many hours the majority of player base just never will reach. So now this is a game where people are forced into Firebase White or Glacier run, hard enough as it is, and it's just a bad call at this moment in time I think to trim anything down a few notches.

If anything we need more weapons like the Piranha right now, to move out of Firebase White as a community then anything else. We need 'Ultra Rare' Gears.

The player base just started to move out of Firebase White and Glacier, seeing some Firebase Giants now.  It would be shame to punish us now by nerfing anything.  That's what I think.  I play Platinum almost exclusively and like alot of other players, I hate to see my arsonal trimmed in anyway.

Majority of player base can't handle it as it is.

Modifié par Maker MEDA, 20 septembre 2012 - 12:15 .

[johnstreetmusic]

Piranha's got punch, super accurate for me and its lightweight, plus it makes me feel like Hale Ceasar in the Expendables.

[masswor5]

I use the piranha mainly for it's looks and it's sound effect I have a better time using the claymore actually.