740 réponses à ce sujet

[UnknownMercenary]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

The only shotgun I use with any regularity is the Claymore. It was my favourite Collector Ship weapon from ME2, and is my favourite weapon in 3.

I don't use the GPS or Graal because they require you to be a host for them to be effective. Having to lead the shots quite a bit with the Graal also puts me off from it.

The Disciple is too weak, and its main function (to stagger enemies) doesn't happen often enough.

I stopped using the Reegar a week or two after it was released because I felt it made the game too easy.

My Wraith is at a low level so I don't bother, and I feel more comfortable with my Saber X, which functions similar to the Crusader.

I don't use the Piranha on caster classes (I would rather use my Talon instead) and I only equip the Piranha for Platinum or if I want to fool around with the Turian Soldier.

[The Makr]

I personally like all the weapons with the N7 designation and wish there were more to pick from.

[Methaluan_Sylver]

I normally use the a set-up of fast firing weapons that go well with turian marksman and stability bonus. On shotguns the Piranha fits the description and I like to use it but I do not do it often.

[Iggister]

Why I don't use...
Claymore: One shot. I don't like to spend that much time reloading. Too heavy to 'reload cancel' on a power class.
Geth Plasma Shotgun: Off host it's projectiles have wonky hit detection and no Piercing
Graal Spike Thrower: Simply better shotguns
Disciple: Low damage. Stagger unreliable. Desperately in need of a buff
Wraith: RoF is TOOO slow
Crusader: It weighs more than a truck.

Why I use:
Reegar Carbine: Great against Cerberus on a Vanguard. (Only time I use this)
Piranha: Seems to do most damage to bosses, so I use this on Platinum where there are a lot of bosses. Spread is too wide for 'normal' enemies.

tl;dr Buff the Wraith RoF. I mean, it's an Ultra-Rare, shouldn't the rarity be worth it?

[Miniditka77]

I use the Piranha sometimes.  The best reason to use it is because it has the highest DPS.  It also has the advantages of being lightweight and not penalizing you badly for missed shots.  All around, it's a very easy gun to use for any character fighting in close range.

I use the Wraith sometimes, but only for classes where I care a lot about cooldown.  If the ROF were buffed to about 60 or better, I would use it much, much more.

I use the Claymore sometimes, but only when I have time to play several matches in a row, since getting the reload cancelling timing down on XBox takes a little practice.

I occasionally use the GPS and Graal, but I would use them a LOT more if they worked the same off host as they do when hosting.

I use the Talon more than any shotgun though.  It has the best balance of accuracy, ROF, power, and weight.  Plus the 1.5 shield and barrier multiplier is pretty great too.

Modifié par Miniditka77, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:23 .

[sy7ar]

Paeyvn wrote...

sy7ar wrote...

Reegar
- Almost forgot, another OP gun with proper amps (incendiary 4). Any boss down in two clips without using it on an infiltrator. That's about 6 seconds. And lets not mention the kroguard combo which I made a solo record.  A bit tweaking is required, or fix the incendiary bug maybe. 

Eh, the gun shouldn't be touched. The gun is fine. It's the Incendiary bug with does that. Pretty apparent on the PPR as well.

That's why I underlined it.

edit: Then again, it has comparable damage output to several arc grenades, easily melting a whole spawn without using any amps. 

Modifié par sy7ar, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:35 .

[RGFrog]

First, the Disciple is a joke for anything but the one thing it does, which is stagger once. However, changes to enemy types makes it a joke.

So, what other lightweight weapon that's good at close range and will get you out of trouble is there?

The Piranha. It's the only weapon that fills a niche sorely lacking in the Rare category. Seeing that it's getting a lot of use pretty much confirms it.

I'd like to see the data on the match levels (bronze, silver, gold, plat) and the class/character specifics that are using it soooo much that it has to be nerfed.

I would take a one shot or two shot shotgun hunting. I wouldn't take one to war. If your 'damage economy' doesn't take that into consideration then the economy model is flawed. Great buzz phrase, though. Almost sounds legit.

[MP-Ryan]

The following is written entirely from a Vanguard perspective for Gold/Platinum play.

First, I operate on the premise that the characters require the following cooldowns to reliably function at the range BC brings you:
Novaguard - 200
Drell, Asari - 160+
Krogan - 150+ (with barrier, that becomes 130)
Phoenix, Slayer - 180+

Next, keep in mind that ME3 balances weapons over powers as damage dealers at high difficulties.

Talking purely shotguns, the Reegar, Claymore, GPS are viable only on krogan. Crusader is out of the running for all vanguards. Graal is too heavy with too little reward.

This leaves the following vanguard friendly weapons:
Eviscerator: Outclassed by Wraith and Piranha. No advantages over either.
Scimitar: Ditto, though it does have a higher ROF.
Wraith: It's ultra-rare, takes a long time to upgrade, and is outclassed by a rare (Piranha). It sorely needs a ROF boost and another weight reduction to make it worthwhile. Right now if you have a Piranha or Talon the Wraith is useless. Which is too bad, really.
Disciple: I want to love this gun. By rights it should be the vanguard shotgun of choice. Unfortunately it doesn't reliably stagger and its damage output over 4 shots is pathetically low. It needs a buff something fierce - reliable stagger would make it the perfect vanguard weapon and reduce Piranha use immensely.

So, Piranha: Light, fast ROF, high damage, multi-shot, designed for CQC. Except for Reegar, it outclasses every other shotgun in the game on vanguards. And the Reegar is only viable on Krogan.

So - I really hope this thread was created by Derek to see where the shotguns need fixing. And I hope the balancing team is paying attention. Specifically to how poorly shotguns synergize with what is supposed to be their primary class - vanguards. Stop balancing them around the Geth Infiltrator.

[Battlepope190]

I actually don't like using the Piranha and prefer the Scimitar.

I'd love to get my hands on the Raider online though...

[Robot_94]

my wraith is level 1 so its not all that great, the claymore and crusader powerful yet heavy and not the best choice for casters, so i need a lighter weapon choice, i could take the grall, but because i play in Australia i get a delay in the spikes so i tend to miss with that gun, so i need a faster gun, i could take the reagar carbine and i do but it runs out of ammo really quickly, so im left with the pirahna

[Kingston Atticus]

I use the Graal or cruisader, or wraith. The Pirahna is just fun on occasion for a change of pace

[JG The Gamer]

I'll take the GPS over the Piranha any day. The former staggers Phantoms, therefore it's my go-to shotgun.

[RxP4IN]

Because I've already used the hell out of the Claymore, the GPR and Graal are lag-dependent, the Wraith has a small niche (still good though), Reegar (too noobish), Disciple...seriously?, and Crusader is kinda janky.

When I do use it, I use it almost exclusively on weapons-based classes.

[BerryDiesel]

I actually don't; I prefer the graal, wraith, and reegar

[Koenig888]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Claymore - great gun
Geth Plasma Shotgun - great gun
Graal Spike Thrower - lag is an issue if off-host; slow charge-up makes it unuseable in a fast-paced game
Disciple - supposed to stagger but it doesn't do so reliably
Reegar Carbine - great gun
Piranha - I actually support a nerf to the Piranha.  I don't like guns that don't require skill to use
Wraith - even a Wraith X sucks; needs an ROF boost
Crusader - sniper rifle wannabe <_<

Edit:: reducing the mag size for Piranha will not really affect it much since it reloads quite quickly.  A better alternative is a nerf to the accuracy so that it remains just as powerful close range but ineffective at longer range, even with the smart choke.

Modifié par Koenig888, 20 septembre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Lynx7725]

I use the Piranha because it's full auto -- close in, nasty affairs? Full auto please -- has good damage when the spread of pellets is tight, and has a generous ammo load. As a balance of factors the Piranha hits the sweet spot of compromise, so it's a good gun to use.

Other shotties, I do use from time to time. I can't/ hasn't master the GPS' charging mechanism, so can't use that to full ability. Claymore is fun but the one-shot nature is demanding. Scimitar is good when it's a "buddy gun" to a power; on a Batarian Soldier relying on blades and grenades, the Scimitar is a nice clean-up weapon.

To be very honest, unmodded, a Piranha is a bit jokey. Very close, it's great, especially against Husks. More than 5 meters out, and the aforementioned spread gets terrible. Without any mods, the Piranha is fairly balanced. Might want to lower the RoF by 5% to 10% but I think on the whole the Piranha is a well balanced gun.

The problem I see is more with the Smart Choke mod, and this is on a bigger picture. Smart Choke tightens the spread IMO a bit too excessively, resulting in very high damage at mid ranges for a weapon class not really meant to do that kind of damage at that kind of range. A Smart Choke on a Claymore makes it a suitable SR replacement -- that's a problem to my understanding at higher levels, where SR are abandoned (by Infiltrators) for Shotguns due to the shotgun's ability to negate Shieldgate and large damage at range.

A Smart Choke on a Piranha turns a balanced weapon into something a bit atrocious. It now can concentrate damage at mid ranges, where most engagements take place. It can deliver shocking amounts of damage in close, in tight patterns. What's there not to like?

[Dbohr]

OK, I only read the OP, so forgive me if I say something repeated.

The Piranha is that rare gun that behaves exactly as it's description says. I'll quote for your convenience:

The N7 Piranha is an assault shotgun designed for the Reaper war. When the N7 program began training alien resistance forces, the lighter-bodied species wanted a low-recoil weapon with a wide pellet spread for dealing with husks. The result was the Piranha, which hit a sweet spot in close-range firepower. Its rapid-fire capability tears apart not only husks, but most opponents unlucky enough to be in its way.

Keyword here is "sweet spot". I tend to use only 3 shotguns nowadays: Claymore, Piranha and Crusader.

Claymore I use on Infiltrators, non-casters and Krogans. I like high-power/ short range.

Crusader I use on Quarians (don't ask), Demolishers and other non-casters when I want long-range and moderate power.

Piranha I use on casters and Destroyers, for I like it's relative low weight, CQC capabilities and excelent RoF. It's no use if not in CQC and that is what makes this weapon balanced.

When I started doing Gold I equiped the Disciple on casters, but since then enemies received so many buffs that the weapon lost some of its teeth. The Eviscerator is a good compromise, but it simply does not have the same boss-killing capability of the other three main shotguns.

I'd use the Reegar more if I could learn how to better time my shots with the damned thing. I know it melts faces, but I never quite got the hang of it.

[Blind2Society]

My HI uses the graal and my GI uses the GPS. I don't care for the piranha myself. Honestly though, I don't think knocking the clip size down by two is going to change much. Maybe knock it down to a 4 round clip and if needed up the damage a tiny bit?

As for other shotguns...

Wraith: needs 35% RoF boost and an extra round in the clip.
Disciple: needs to stagger with every shot, 100% of the time.
Graal: needs more uncharged damage
Crusader: needs liposuction
Scimitar: needs more damage
Eviscerator: needs something, maybe RoF increase?
Katana: what doesn't it need?

[jakenou]

Cos it looks like old school gangsta gunz

... and because (in the case of my Xbox manifest) I have it at a higher level than most of the other choices. Plus it's light enough for my casters and zoomers, good balance of RoF and damage. Did I mention it looks like a gangster gun? When I have it with a krogan I wish I had a gangster hat to go with it.

I use some of the other guns too though, so yeah. That.

[DatFeel]

I don't use it on any character. I prefer the Claymore, or a pistol if I want something lighter. I know I'm doing it wrong, but it's boring and everyone uses it.

editL I use it on the GI, I forgot. I only use him when I play Plat though.

Modifié par DatFeel, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:56 .

[Kaithalas]

najzere wrote...

BIOFAN wrote...
I don't know to what type of gamer you guys are trying to appeal but I'm the type of gamer that wants to feel progression in the game as I become more and more powerful.  I do not want to go back to the avengers or the shurikens of the game on any game.  I want the best weapons and equipment available in the game cause it gives me the sense of accomplishment I'm looking for in a game.

If you guys don't understand that then I dont know what are you doing making games.

That goes for all the types of weapons available in your game, pistols, machine guns, sniper rifles, assault rifles and shotguns.  You can have 5 more type of weapons available making it 10 and I'm still gonna use the ones that are the best depending on the team loadout and synergy.

Yes, this exactly. No one likes going backwards and it's especially painful in this game where it takes forever to unlock things with the random store.

Agreed, nerfing is a step in the wrong direction, BACKWARDS.
Instead of taking the lazy way out try to see how the other shotguns do not compare to the piranha, maybe
make them more forgiving and easier to use for the casual gamer, thus increasing their fun.

It's an *N7* weapon for crying out loud. SAYS RIGHT THERE NEAR ITS STOCK.

Elite special forces would NOT use a piece of junk, much less design one.

[TamTam79]

Based on rarity alone, the Wraith SHOULD be the #1 shotgun in the game. At this point in time it's out classed not only by a couple of other shotties.....but by a pistol of all things, too.

Anyway, the Piranha is clearly an OP weapon at this point in time. I say OP because there is little reason to use an alternative because:

A) it's DPS is ridiculously high.
it's lighter than any other ultra high DPS gun (save the N7 Hurricane). That makes it even usuable for caster classes and to me, that's kinda missing the point entirely.
C) it reloads super quick as well.

If I was fixing it, I'd simply up the weight to around GPS level, drop the clip and/or lengthen reload.

Weight and clip reduction would be enough, IMO.

[TheExile1]

Derek, you gotta convince Eric to go for a Wraith buff. I and every other post is asking for one.

Give the people what they want. We want a Wraith buff. 

Modifié par TheExile1, 20 septembre 2012 - 03:05 .

[Fyurian2]

Rifneno wrote...

It's lightweight and provides good damage.

This.
What it lacks in sheer brute force (unlike the Claymore) is makes up for in a good balance of weight and damage, with a RoF that no other shotgun can match.
It's essentially the Carnifex of Shotguns, since the Carnifex is the most well balanced of the pistols, and until the Piranha was released, of all the weapons.

Though heavier than the Disciple, it's got better damage and RoF.

In all honesty, the Disciple and Wraith need buffing to bring them on par with the Piranha as it currently is, and will be with the reduced clip size.
For the Wraith, I'd say it definitely needs an increased RoF. Not much, but it does need to be quicker to fire its two shots. Damage and weight (even at lvl4) are good in my opinion, but the RoF on it does more harm than good (again, my opinion).
For the Disciple I'd say either an shorter reload time (without reload cancelling) or again an inreased RoF with an increased accuracy.

It's really the Piranha's high RoF as the only automatic shotgun that makes it so widely used.
It allows for semi-auto or full-auto at the user's discretion, and automatic allows it to tear down armoured units faster than other shotguns, and like all weapons, reload cancelling allows it to pump out that damage faster.