740 réponses à ce sujet

[B.Shep]

I don't use the Piranha. xD

Reegar Carbine is my most used shotgun in the MP.

[AlistairsGirl]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

1) Crusader is only at 4, weighs a ton and I just don't like the 'feel' of it.

2) LOVE the GPS, but the sound it makes get's annoying as hell.  I still use it every now and then though.

3) Graal is terrible off host for me.  And I don't really like the charge up weapons (GPS excluded).

4) I still use the disciple.  I love it on my asari vanguard, just wish it did more damage.

5) The reegar.. I just don't like it.  I don't like the 'feel' of the stream when you fire it, if you know what I mean?

6) Wraith.  I just used it again today after a long while and remembered why I steer away from it.  Needs one more clip added and I need more levels for it

7) Claymore.  I used this today as well.  I still love it.  Especially with r/c, but only on soldiers for me.  

The reason why I use/used the piranha the most?  Before the nerfs.  I'm not gonna lie.  It was a beast.  It killed things left and right.  I used it exclusivley on my fury as that's why I thought it was added.. for caster classes.  I hardly ever fired it on her though, as the splosions did the work for me.   But on my destroyer, it was a fantastic close up weapon, with the typhoon as a long range one.

Then the nerf came.  I still used it, but noticed the difference.  I love the gun, but it felt too different to me.  I stopped playing soon after.  Not because of the nerf, but for a variety of reasons.

I loaded up to play today with a friend, and we 2 manned 3 or 4 games, each with guns I haven't used in ages.. months even.   The Claymore, Wraith, Indra, Talon, Valiant and the Canifex.  These were the most fun games I'd had in such a long... long.. time.  

There is definetly something to be said about mixing and matching your loadout.  Don't keep using the same weapons and classes.  What's that saying?  Variety is the spice of life?

Modifié par AlistairsGirl, 20 septembre 2012 - 06:48 .

[Road Wulf]

I prefer a full auto weapon to small clip shotguns, especially for a back up weapon for a sniper where I already have a single shot boom stick. But by nerfing the damage repeatedly, the 8 shots I have from the Extended Clip will soon not be enough without using several Shotgun gear buffs to go with it that I'd rather put elsewhere.

My issue always seems to be that weapons recieve a nerf or buff depending how they perform only on certain classes such as the Destroyer. When what you should be looking at is how useless the weapon becomes on classes that can't use a Super Weapon mode to turn it into unbelievably broken.

Just reconsider how you go about your weapon balances.

[Badpanzer]

Challenge accepted

Claymore..single shot so reload cancelling is a must(tedious)and to heavy for cooldown classes.

GPS....awesome gun a bit heavy but still good..if you are hosting..if you arent it doesnt work.

Graal...less awesome than GPS and also doesnt work well off host.

Disciple...are you joking?..it needs a 50% damage buff to be even remotely as good as the above weapons...not awful bad for casters but very weak damage output..does stagger a bit I guess.

Reegar...ok deadly gun but a bit too short ranged so I prefer the Piranha.

Wraith...Ultra rare so it will never level up..doesnt do enough damage to compensate for the rarity...also doesnt do anything that other guns cant do better..claymore for example.

Crusader..another ultra rare that will never level..also stupidly heavy gun that doesnt bypass shieldgate..gets a small boost to armour and its very accurate..imho it competes with the sabre not the piranha.

The Piranha is deadly on the Destroyer but not so brutal on other classes,its secret is that its light enough to be used by any class unlike most of the other shotguns so it sees more use than most.

[peddroelm]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

This will be a list of my personal preferences - not a intrinsic  weapon "value" evaluation ...

Use often (me likey) 
Claymore  - favorite shotgun since I've learnt  reload canceling ...
Reegar Carbine - higest DPS weapon in the game - easy enough to abuse ...hard to say no to raw power 
Talon - best sniper weapon in the game with pistol scope on accuracy bonused clases ...

Special Mention
Graal -  extreme satisfaction in the rare cases when manage to connect shots vs moving targets ...

Borderline OP in capable hands but I cannot use properly (rarely use)
GPS
Piranha

Try once in a while - always fail hard when using them (the low sustained DPS vs Boss category)
Katana, Disciple, Eviscerator (old ME2 favorite) , Wraith 

Don't have 
Crusader

Edit completly  forgot about the scimitar ... That should give you a hint ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 20 septembre 2012 - 07:41 .

[Vikingo]

Derek Hollan wrote...


So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

 

The Piranha is light, hitscan and packs a good punch.

Claymore is acctually my favorite shotgun but it is to heavy in some cases.

I dont like the GPS, it is to "unshotgun" for me.

I really like the Graal but it is too lag sensitive.

Disciple does too little damage, only use I find for it is as a lightweight platform for Shotgun blade attachment.

Reegar, I use it sometimes but not too fond of it.

But if I had a high level Wraith it would probably share the niche of low weight/good punch and I would alternate between Wraith and Piranha.

Crusader is just too heavy for what it it does. If weight is not an issue on the character I would bring the Claymore.

Modifié par Vikingo, 20 septembre 2012 - 07:04 .

[Grotaiche]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

This topic is really great as it shows you guys have been very aware of the many concerns and debates that occurred yesterday. Thank you a lot for that.

To answer the question, I'll say it depends on the character/build I want to use. Kroguard, melee oriented ? Piranha since it's probably the lightest and has great DPS. Kroguard, weapon oriented ? Reegar, provided I have it at a high enough level Solider (Krogan or Demolisher) and I'll go for GPS. My Adept builds don't use shotguns, although I might try one of these days. I have to admit I have never tried the Wraith, the Graal or the Crusader but I have seen a guy perform very very well with his Crusader VII on a Quarian.

[Trontor]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

Because of the weight to damage ratio and the rapid fire. I use the N7 Piranha on my N7 Shadow for finishing enemies off after Shadow Strike. If I would use a Claymore or Geth Plasma Shotgun the cooldown afterwards would be too long.

There a lot of Shotguns with nicer handling than the N7 Piranha but they are either too heavy (e.g. GPS) or don't do enough damage (e.g. the Scimitar). The weigh limits in multiplayer are just too restrictive in general.

Modifié par JustAnotherVanguard, 20 septembre 2012 - 07:51 .

[Dama733]

Despite it being the most bugged gun in the game (and I mean shots hitting the ceiling or wall behind me bugged) I still prefer the GPS... yes it has no AP and no headshot but its range makes up for that.

The thing is most of the other shotguns either have too short a range or they cause so little damage, and while I like the Claymore both it and the Crusader suffer from them being so damn heavy, then theres the long reload speeds most shotguns suffer from.
Lets face it Derek most players are going to want weapons that can take enemies down quick, thats what the Piranha gives.

Modifié par Dama733, 20 septembre 2012 - 07:21 .

[COLZ7R]

Gps/grall, dont like charge up weps, claymore i like but reload canceling is a pain in the but if more than 1 enemy is close, desciple is plain crap, wraith is good but leveling up ur's with the crappy rng store is a joke and is the crusader even a shotty? Plus leveling it up is not very easy is it?
Leaves the reegar and "the fish" 2 good light close range shottys that do decent damage at point blank range(where they are supposed to work!) and are not near impossible to level up.
Think that covers it...also forgot gps/grall are best used if you are the host.

[Happy Shepard]

I only use the GPS on non-Infiltrators and when i play Infiltrator i usually prefer the Claymore or the Crusader.

[Nl55]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Claymore is slow, but it is good and it is reason to other choice for many people.
GPS and Graal is spec charging weapon depending of host and it is reason to other choice.
Disciple just a trash - small damage, low clip amount, not fast reload time.
Reegar is powerful weapon in CQC, but range and it is reason to choice.
Wraith is slow as hell and Claymore would be better in most cases.
Crusader is heavy, have great recoil. And we have saber and paladin for outclassing him perfectly.

So, Piranha... light, fast, powerful, full auto shotgun.
Your question sounds like joke.

How to fix it? You have wrong "economy" and bunch of problems with it.
Easy way for now would be nerf Piranha. Clip size, ammo count, rof, damage. But you risk (can make it useless).
Other way is buff black weapons to make reason to choose them instead gold (Piranha is gold). And you must remember - not many people have black shotgun to compare with best gold shotgun.

[Barge6000]

I only use it on a couple of classes, but why you say? Cos it's an auto-shotty!!!1 it's fun and effective. Gps is effective but boring, claymore is great but doesn't fit some characters the way I play them, reegar is great and I use it a lot too, not enough range for squishy or slow classes tho, disciple sucks sorry, graal is tough to use off host, wraith is too rare and too weak.
pihrana is in the top 3 but I'm not sure it dominates the others :S

[Barge6000]

I only use it on a couple of classes, but why you say? Cos it's an auto-shotty!!!1 it's fun and effective. Gps is effective but boring, claymore is great but doesn't fit some characters the way I play them, reegar is great and I use it a lot too, not enough range for squishy or slow classes tho, disciple sucks sorry, graal is tough to use off host, wraith is too rare and too weak.
pihrana is in the top 3 but I'm not sure it dominates the others :S

[Darksaberexile]

*looks at my Shadow's Talon*
*reads the topic*
*looks back at the Talon*

...I should go.

On topic:
Only used the GPS, Disciple, and Piranha in the shotgun category. I've never been one for the shotgun infiltrator, so there's that.

Disciple: Just...too weak, didn't seem to stagger reliably, and ended up not being worth using when I tried it.

GPS: No problems with it, probably my favorite out of the true shotguns (Talon wins, but it's technically a pistol).

Piranha: I found I did worse with it equipped on my Shadow than not, as I'd tend to not focus as much on hit and run tactics, try to shoot things more, and then die in a rather silly/avoidable way.

[koschwarz74]

i like to give different and if possible "lore-friendly" weapons to my favorite permanent characters. piranha: i give it only to human vanguard and rarely to fury (but she rather prefers talon). krogan sentinel gets claymore or graal, destroyer GPS (jeez,!) crusader, QMI reegar, batarian soldier eviscerator, paladin wraith, phoenix vangaurd disciple.
using only the same one or two weapon is getting me bored. personally i'm confident enough not to stick only to the overrated piranha.

i actually like the hated by community disciple and eviscerator (ON GOLD, before somebody says "on bronze").  for example, it fits in the hands of phoenix vanguard. i lash the enemy towards me then smash it than boom-boom-boom, if necassary.

since batarian soldier have the ballistic blade, it is the main "power shotgun" but the eviscerator gives a good CD and fits the barbaric batarian style, and i rarely have to shoot with it, but if i have to, it's enough.

btw, is there any rough batarian shotgun? my batarian soldier would welcome it...

Modifié par koschwarz74, 20 septembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Why I use the Piranha?
I use it with Destroyer,GI and TS(great synergy with that classes) because it has excellent RoF,very good damage and it is featherlight.Low accuracy can be mended with smart choke and those classes can handle few hits or ger close to enemy quickly.
With Kroguard I use Reegar or Claymore and HS Claymore.
I don´t use it with caster classes,because I have other options(great pistols and the Hurricane or Indra).
GPS and Graal are great shotguns,but host dependent.
Wraith is decent,but I would like better RoF.
I didn´t use Crusader that much,so dunno.I don´t use any other shotgun except those I mentioned.
And in the end retorical question for BW.Why have you created the superb shotgun with almost no flaws and then are wondering why (majority of)players use it?

[Kuciowski]

because when I'm using n7 characters I like to give them weapon with n7 painted on the side. If its shooty it's either crusader (good only when playing against cerberus imo) or piranha. That's it.

Most of the time I use claymore or graal.

EDIT: also crusader is ridiculously heavy and piranha is light.

Modifié par Kuciowski, 20 septembre 2012 - 07:52 .

[peddroelm]

Feneckus wrote...

- Light
- Best damage in the game, against both mooks and bosses
- Don't need to aim (slight exaggeration )

blaze55555 wrote...

My theory: Because its DPS is 1500+

77.1 damage per projectile x 8 projectiles per shot x 2.5 shots per second = 1542 damage per second. Slap on the Shredder mod and Choke mod and it's pretty darn good. If I were to balance it, I kinda like how it has the highest theoretical base DPS of any weapon; I love the ideas of making it even more wildly inaccurate.

Talhydras wrote...

TL; DR: IT'S ALL ABOUT THE DPS. The game is built around deleting high health pools in a big hurry. Underused guns tend to have extremely low DPS. Overused guns tend to have either extremely high or convenient and easily-achieved high DPS. This is literally the entire scope of the Piranha problem. It has crazy high damage output in a game about achieving crazy high damage output and has no drawbacks preventing it from being used on literally every class build imaginable. The reason it's being overused is that it is purpose built to defeat the hardest enemies in the game.


And now, the Piranha.

This gun does the highest damage IN THE GAME. So, naturally, we'd expect it to have a massive drawback or asterisk next to the goofy-high, "makes powers pointless" amounts of damage. That drawback being: It's almost weightless and any class can use it.

....

Reality time: The highest base-DPS gun in the game should probably not be one of the lightest in its weapon category. Similarly, the highest base-DPS gun in the game should probably have a drawback that can't be compensated for with a common mod that everyone has. Take, for example, the Harrier. I love it, I personally overuse it - but it has an achilles heel. It has very low max ammunition, and there's no easily acquired mod to fix that. Not everyone has the +ammo gear, and taking it means I can't use the warfighter or grenade gear instead, making the Harrier present very real tradeoffs.

Reegar is currently the highest DPS weapon in the game (even vs armor by a large margin after you deal with armor DR)... Tiny clip size and some mysterious pellet miss//disappearing acts prevent it from being completly over the top ...

[Boog_89]

I dont use the pirahna (only level 2 but have argus 4 derp)
Reegar carbine and claymore are all I need.
I like the fire rate of the scimitar and the knockback effect of the disciple but I feel those 2 guns are too weak.

[bloodstalker1973]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

I don't like charge weapons like the Graal or the Geth Plasma Shotgun, so I don't use them at all.

I use the Pirahna on certain classes. Right now I'm playing around with it as a weapon for my Paladin.  classes that are dependant on cooldown times for powers I only take one weapon on. In some cases an assault rifle is too heavy, and shotguns like the Claymore are also not an option. 

On classes like the Destroyer though, I typically run with either the Revenant or the Typhoon and a Claymore because the weight doesn't kill me with that class. Pound for pound I prefer the Claymore period, but it's weight is crippling.

The Reegar isn't really an option for me on most classes. It's range is much too short unless i am playing a Krogan Vanguard or similar. Simply put, I'm not good enough with most classes to be able to get in and stand toe to toe with the enemy like I have to with that weapon. Some people are that good and can work with any weapon on any class. Most of us aren't. 

For some reason using a Disciple.... i just can't get a handle on that gun. I don't really like the Wraith or the crusader that much either just because of the way they feel. That's a personal thing more than anything.

And then there is the fact that it's simply the newest shotgun I have. I like new things. When i got my typhoon, I retired my Revenant up until just a couple days ago when i started takling my generic Human Soldier out again. Even after the nerf, i still used it because it was new and different for me. The new wore off just recently, so now I'm using different weapons. I think a lot of people are using it because it's a change of pace when they get it, or because  "new has to equal better" for a lot of people. Pretty sure if you released another shotgun, you'd see a sharp decline in Pirahna usage even if you made it a much worse weapon. It's just the mindset of the mainstream gamers to use the newest option at all times I think.


So, i use my Pirahna on a couple classes because it's lighter than the Claymore, has better range (with the smart choke), than the Reegar, and I don't have to charge it up. Also,  it's still new enough for me to have that shiny feel to it. 

[Dein Justin]

just recently got a Piranha, currently only at lvl 1, using it on my Destroyer, SI and Demolisher. It's the only shotgun that I use since other shotguns seem to have a lack of ammo before the need to reload. From what I've read in the forums, GIs seem to have fun with the fish, but I don't have those yet. I play with my SI most of the time and am just starting to get the feel of the shotgun infiltrator because it does feel like those sniper rifles seem to lack their place in damage ability to boss types.

Note on other shotguns: GPS is fun, but charging it is not. Wraith, Claymore, Evi, Katana..I'll have to try those out later though since I'd rather go Mattock than those weapons.

EDIT: Just remembered I have a Crusader at lvl 1, but that is not a shotgun, it's a sniper rifle. Hated that I can't shoot down a Guardian due to it being too close, and even though aiming at the mail slot, no pellet would go in.

Modifié par Dein Justin, 20 septembre 2012 - 08:15 .

[Kaithalas]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Here's something to consider when tossing around balance ideas.

You can't just buff all weapons.  There is a concept known as a damage economy.  This works just like other economies.  If a company gives all their workers a raise, then they have to raise the price of the goods they are selling.  The new cost of the items means the workers all need raises to afford them which, then means the price of the goods have to be raised.  Inflation, in other words.

Similarly, if you need to keep a game challenging, you cannot just raise all the weapons because then all the enemies will require buffing.  Then we are caught in a viscous cycle of inflation again.  The trick is to keep the game challenging while ensuring all weapons have equal footing.  Common weapons for Bronze, Uncommon for Silver, and so on.

So, no...you can't just buff them all.  It's complicated and delicate.

Cheers

This would be accurate except for logical fallacies:

1. Weapons do not scale. To repeat, they DO NOT SCALE.
2. Neither do powers. Biotic Explosions/Tech Bursts do, but that's apples and potatoes right now.
3. Enemies, however, *do* scale. They get markedly tougher, hit harder, and fight smarter and more efficiently, dodge more, etc.
4. Your argument is that Rares are viable for Gold, uncommons for silver, and ultra-rares for Platinum.

The key of what I'm about to discuss is here: By that which is discussed in numbers 1-3, the argument that if you buff the other guns, you have to buff the enemies is illogical and irrational. Players use the so-called "overused" guns because the alternatives are inefficient or just plain bad. Players aren't using the Carnifex, for example, because it's overpowered; they use it because most of the other pistols are either (A) Ultra-Rare, or ( A niche weapon (Scorpion, Acolyte), or © Garbage.

Let's see some of the "Gold Viable" weapons for a moment:
Geth Pulse Rifle. A weapon that does about as much damage as harsh language.
Widow. Irrelevant due to shield gate and lack of boss headshot modifiers, even now.
Get Plasma SMG. A water pistol.
Revenant. Inaccurate and almost impossible to use outside of Turians and the N7 Destroyer, resulting in it being a generally poor weapon.
Striker: A support weapon largely unusuable save for a few classes.
Falcon. A gun that was nerfed into oblivion and only recently was restored to usability.
Disciple. "This gun sucks" just rolls off the tongue.
Arc Pistol. Hope to Christ you have a turbo controller....
Krysae Sniper Rifle. Was broken at launch, and instead of the correct way of fixing it (remove proxy fuse, cut splash radius, make it explode on contact with enemies only), it was nerfed into oblivion and is now useless.
Argus. Hey, it's a "Powerful" rifle which is out-damaged by the Phaeston and handles like the Incisor.

The argument that "economy of damage" needs to be the basis for weapon balance is fine, but the handling of weapons in this game for its entire life-cycle has shown that to be not the case. In short, your own balance decisions prove that all-too-clearly. That's not even considering that close to 95% of the community does not have any URs anywhere near maxed, or that there is an inordinate number of garbage Ultra-rares, too (E.G. the Typhoon).

Putting it differently, the problem is:
1. Your argument is that you cannot buff the gun base to proper standards, because of damage economy and that will somehow necessitate buffing enemies.
2. This argument is undermined by the fact that the overpowering majority of weapons in the game are non-starters for gold and platinum. This includes roughly half of the rares, and a third of the ultra-rares, in case my point is not made.
3. It is undermined further by the fact that you've already buffed enemies on numerous occasions for not being lethal enough, without corresponding buffs to weapon utility. That, by your own economic-esque examples, should have resulted in corresponding buffs in other areas, but barring an Ultra-Rare fix here and there, that has not materialized. Instead we've gotten incremental changes that don't really improve anything (see: GPR buff) or fixes for issues that whilst nice, don't address the crux of the problem (Shield Gate). These are not making their associated weapons suck any less
4.  The argument that making guns not-garbage will result in them dominating the metagame is not based in fact, considering that - shockingly - certain guns are already dominating part of the metagame vis-a-vis inability to balance them correctly.
5. The argument in #4 is further undermined by the fact that the overpowering majority of the community does not possess more than a few ultra-rares, ergo meaning by your own example, they shouldn't be able to do Platinum.
6. It also ignores how hard gear is to get.
7. And classes, for that matter.

In conclusion, I'm sorry, but I disagree and your opinion does not hold up to subjective analysis.
 

This. Guy. Wins. The. Internet.

[Random70]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

My (heavily biased) shotgun analysis...

Claymore:
Hits like a truck...and weighs about as much as one as well. Use it often on 'no cooldown' builds...love it on human soldier

GPS:
Hate 'charge up' guns...won't use no matter how good it is.

Graal:
See GPS

Disciple:
Same weight, clip, spare ammo, and RoF as the Talon...but you could buff it's damage by 50% and it still won't hit as hard as the Talon. As I have my Talon up to VIII, I have no reason to use this

Reegar:
Use mostly on Kroguard and some other 'no cooldown' builds when I use more than 2 weapons. Fun to use, but not really a shotgun.

Wraith:
I wanted to like this gun...but I don't. I can't stand the slow RoF and the reload delay. Very simply, depending on the build you're running, this thing is blown out of the water by the Claymore, Talon, Piranha, and the Reegar. Very sad and redundant for a UR.

Crusader:
Scopeless sniper rifle. On the very rare occasion I run a sniper build, I use an actual sniper rifle. I don't really understand the purpose of this gun.

Talon:
Not on your list, but it really is a shotgun so I'll notate it here. Light, hard hitting, decent mag, spare ammo, and RoF. Pretty accurate if you slap a scope on it. Arguably the best all-around gun in the game. I use it extensively on caster types and, prior to the Piranha, my Vanguards.

Piranha:
Fun to shoot and very forgiving for those of us without mad aiming skillz. That said, the lack of accuracy is, in my opinion,  an issue for most classes. Vanguards, GI , and the Destroyer are obviously able to overcome this.
I use it on GI as I don't take a cooldown hit (unlike Claymore) if I screw up my Cloak-PM-Shoot timing.
I use it on the Destroyer because you guys nerfed the crap out of the Typhoon
And it is the weapon for a 'Charge all the things' Vanguard

Final note: Don't nerf the Piranha!!!