740 réponses à ce sujet

[Elder_Jefferson]

COLZ7R wrote...

This should be interesting, there has been a lot of well thought out answers replying to the devs initial question with a almost universal conclusion that nothing is wrong with the fish but the "problem" lies with peoples dislike of the other shotties for different reasons.
So is the "solution" to nerff the gun that most of the people who bought your game like? If it is,its the strangest way to go about customer satisfaction i have heard of

Yeah, this raised my eyebrows as well. We all like the one gun you now want to change, so that we'll start using the guns we don't like?

Makes perfect sense to me!

Modifié par Elder_Jefferson, 20 septembre 2012 - 01:19 .

[GriM_AoD]

KATANA!!!!!

[dysturbed0ne]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Piranha is the only one that functions like an actual tactical shotgun.

Claymore, Wraith and Crusader - like a single/double barral SG at best. Not ideal for multiple enemies. (not to say some people can't use them well)
Graal and GPS - charged shots
Reegar - Has it's uses, but can't really be called a SG.
Disciple - I want to like it, but it's like shooting rounds loaded with rock salt at armored enemies.

[SimulatedSnowman]

I don't like where this is going. Trying to bring weapons in line with each other only makes the game flavorless.

That being said, the reason why the Piranha is used so often is because it is the best general purpose shotgun. Other guns in this category do specific things better, but the Piranha is good enough all around to be considered for any class.

A Claymore, GPS, Crusader, or Graal are all better at range and hit harder, but they're heavy as hell or are limited by low capacity, ruling them out for most casters.

The Disciple and Wraith are both light enough for casters, but they don't do good enough damage to justify using pretty much anything else of comparable weight. On (most of) my adepts, I would rather use an Eagle than the Disciple, and that's really saying something.

The Reegar sort of stands alone in that it hits super hard and is not THAT heavy, but it is severely limited by range.

The Piranha does a decent enough job at all of these niches that it's a good choice for any class. I would suggest that instead of nerfing the Piranha, maybe make some of these shotguns a little better. If your true objective is to "bring weapons into line" with each other, and not inflate artificial difficulty, that seems like a more fun solution.

[GallowsPole]

I am not a shotgun user. Never have and never will be. The Pirahna, though, I have used, and take it out from time to time, and I do mean rarely. It's easy to use. It shreds enemies. It's light and can be used on virtually any class. For the casual gamer, you can't beat it on any difficulty.

[nSquared75]

I really can't see what the fuss is really about. Perhaps, I need to explore the various consumable buffs with it and see. The fact is that I hate the need for them. I think they cause an environment that is way too dynamic and, perhaps that is intentional. However, it makes it hard to gauge the true performance of the weapons and level of play.

You can find videos on how destructive the Piranha is in the hands of a GI but, that is a specific character and class and, more importantly; they show a particular build. That very build may mop up the floor with enemies on Gold. However, "Little Johnny" may unlock/build his FQE and slap on the Piranha to try to do the same thing on Silver. Without the proper consumables, he will wind up on his face in less than 2 seconds of rushing the spawn.

The weapon does not react the same in the hands of all classes/characters as we all know. This is not only the case in damage but, in accuracy/range. Destroyers/GI/GE may be able to throw great damage down the map and good distance with a decent build but, others will not even come close. Granted for what it is offered for others is good but, not awesome.

What changes are made will effect all but, the negative will far outweigh the positive since, only a few character/classes actually get the peak performance from it. Not to mention that many of us are very casual gamers and don't have the knowledge of these "Uber" builds nor, are Pro's.

[Dark Tlaloc]

 I used to use the GPS, because I liked the feel of the gun (despite the fact that it shot orbs of plasma, it felt how a shotgun should, to me), but I stopped because I got tired of dealing with its lag. I occasionally use my Crusader (have it at VI, so I might as well!), but it's not the type of shotgun I prefer to use (I like a spread). I used to use the Disciple, until I realized that the stagger it was supposed to deal to enemies wasn't particularly common, and didn't end up helping my cause at all. My favorite shotgun is technically a pistol--The Talon, but I've had terrible luck leveling it up (got it in April, and it's still at I, while I've gotten Scorpion and Javelin to VI, and Saber to IV in the meanwhile), so recently I've been using the Piranha X. 
I should note that I also use the Reegar on my Vorcha, because I tend to like up-close-and-personal guns on those ratty bastards. 

I prefer the Piranha to the majority of shotguns simply because it acts like a SHOTGUN (terrible at long range, deadly at short), and not some hybrid. I think the power it has in close is fairly mitigated by the fact that you actually have to GET in close range to use it effectively.

[rlro]

I use Reegar on my Kroguard, Batarian Sentinel, Vorcha Sentinel and Krogan Sentinel (melee oriented) because it excels in CQC. I use Piranha on GI, Destroyer and TS because they have stability bonus and currently Piranha offers the best DPS at medium range.

I don't like GPS because it tires my fingers and also because I don't really like charged weapons (that's also why I don't use Graal).

I tried very had to like the Claymore, but despite that I always find that Reegar/Piranha do a better job for my playing style.

Regarding the Wraith, I consider it pretty much useless (it is the worst of the UR weapons by far): everything that you can do with it, you can do better with Talon, Piranha, Claymore or Reegar.

[Yuanrang]

Well, I think the general answer for me personally is that the Piranha is the best go-to weapon for any given situation if you have to choose an overall shotgun with a random class.

Now, let it be said that I love my Claymore. Nothing feels as badass as walking around with a human soldier, doing Adrenaline Rush reloads and feeling like Arnold, wading through the police station in the classic Terminator movie, picking your lone targets left and right.

I also love the Reegar. It is an awfully task-specific shotgun due to its multiplier, but hey, it is excellent when you need a close quarter gun like that, especially when you need anti-shield firepower.

The Disciple is more of a Shotgun for Cooldown-dependant classes. It just does not have the firepower to be worth it. Remember, shotgun wielders look for power because they are usually the classes that do not care about weapon weight, thus want more out of their weapons and firepower. The Disciple is a stark contradiction to that principle and quite frankly, for Cooldown-dependant classes, there are far better weapons out there such as the Acolyte, Hurricane, Scorpion, Carnifex or the Paladin and some others.

I really haven't tried most of those other shotguns very much, mostly because they do not interest me. If I want a low-clip, high power shotgun, I will take the Claymore. If I want more slugs in the clip, I'll obviously go for the Piranha which has a decent rate of fire and good firepower (just horrid Accuracy and Stability). The Piranha is good for "up and close" characters, but if I couldn't go Claymore, Piranha or Reegar, I'd have to pick the more lackluster shotguns which does not have much use. Why would I take an inferior single-shot, or dual-shot, gun other than the claymore, when I could just go with a sniper rifle or a proper automatic assault rifle instead?

[megabeast37215]

For everyone bashing the Wraith... you're doing it wrong. Aim for the head.

[Mad Scientist]

Piranha isn't the only shotgun I use. Others include Crusader (for headshots), Graal for stagger effect and dealing with phantoms, and sometimes Claymore for its unmatched stopping power. Since piranha doesn't come with any special effects, it's only fair it has higher dps than other shotguns.

[Mozts]

Because of the name. In portuguese, its a slang for women with... Lets say questionable morals.

[Striker93175]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Claymore - I use to use the claymore alot, Piranha does close damage and fires faster and more shots... When I can unload multiple shots in the time it takes to fire off 1 claymore round + reload... why wouldn't I use the Piranha?  Though I find Bat. Solder blades work better with claymore cancel reloading, its like firing multiple claymore shots (blades, gun, blades go boom while i reload cancel, gun, power is charged so repeat).

Geth Plasma Shotgun - Good gun.  Geth damage bonus means it goes on my GE... but under cloak see above to claymore...  I can fire many more damage boosted rounds off with the Piranha verses just a couple....

Graal Spike Thrower - Great gun... if your host.  Off host, good luck (due to projectile travel)

Disciple - Sure, the gun is light.  Have you actually tried to kill things with it though?  I can empty every round I have + pop off a ammo pack and empty the gun and not down an atlas or a prime. 

Reegar Carbine - MELT ALL THE THINGS!  But... if you think you're stuck to a ammo box w/ a Harrier if this if your primary weapon you have no choice except to travel ammo box to ammo box and hope you don't encounter more than what?  5 enemys en route...?

Wraith - I have this gun at level X and between damage and rate of fire, I am simply not impressed at all.  It's only saving grace is that it is light, however Piranha is still lighter...

Crusader - I am continually trolled with it and have it at level 8 and after this weekend op its a fair bet it will me level 9.  Its heavy... its very heavy.  So only good on non-power user builds.  It fires slugs, negated by shieldgate.  It pretty much goes on my Krogan Sentinel as a sidearm.  Makes a good makeshift pistol on early waves...  but one boss level enemies show I have to switch to my real gun not the novelity gun.

Modifié par Striker93175, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:02 .

[Jackville Assington]

The Geth Plasma DESTORYS Phantoms, and has good reach. I always use it with my destroyer. I always use the Diciple with my Krogan because it stuns the enemy readying for a Krogan melee. Diciple is so awesome. Reegar Carbine, we all know it is the best thing to shred shields and use with Vorcha synergy. Wraith is one of the most awesome powerful guns ever. It is like the Claymore only two shots and less weight.
Claymore - NERF RATE OF FIRE! IT S TOO DAMN HIGH!

The other guns suck. Use the damn Wraith, Diciple, and Geth Plasma more often everyone. They are awesome.

[sobit]

i use the piranha when i grow tired of PUGs, and just once in a while want to have a easy, smooth gold game. its sustained dps is insane. the graal is fun lore wise, the claymore wrecks humanoids with one shot, the crusader as well. the reegar is exploitable as hell on the vorcha (red and blue flame thrower). but none of these guns takes down a banshee faster then the pirahna.

[Pedactor]

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

No, it's not.

The gun's representation is high due to Geth Infiltrators and Destroyers, two of the best classes, having accuracy bonuses that allow this thing to be effective at nearly all ranges and insane rates of fire.

Don't touch its clip capacity.  Increase its spread further and slow its rate of fire.

Significant amounts, too. 

Scimitar and Wraith get buffed and everybody should then be happy since there's 3 guns available to do what the one weapon is doing now.

And one could argue that the wider spread would actually be a boon to CQC-focused classes.

Nothing else about it needs to be changed.  It needs its effective range reduced significantly on the GI and Destroyer and you will see higher representation of other shotguns and the Talon.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Heldarion wrote...

Maybe this has been said before, but there's one thing that needs to be clarified:

Is Piranha actually throwing damage economy out of whack?

If yes: how? Does your data actually suggest that the games with Piranha have a much higher probability of extraction/wave 10 completion? What is your desired rate of extractions? If your data doesn't suggest higher probability of extraction/wave 10 completion, why the nerf?
edit: better question would be - are players using Piranha (and the only ones using it in games) more likely to top the scoreboard by a significant margin in Gold/Platinum?

If no: why bother nerfing? If other weapons are buffed into the vicinity of Piranha, Piranha becomes replacable, it's not like the buff to other shotguns will magically throw damage economy out of balance if Piranha hasn't done it.

I asked this as well, but was wordier.

I'd like an answer on it as well.

[Acyl]

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking. We all agree the Piranha is effective, but that doesn't mean the thing is overpowered. Honestly, I figure a lot of people are like me. We use the weapon not because of its damage per-se, but because of it's characteristics.

1. Full Automatic Fire: I use the Reegar a lot as well. The Reegar and the Piranha are the only two shotguns where you can just hold down the trigger. If there were other full-auto shotguns, I'd use those too.

2. Low Weight: The Piranha is light. I use the Wraith for the same reason, and before I started using the Piranha and Wraith, I used the Eviscerator. I think you see a pattern here.

And the thing is, if you nerf the Piranha too much, that just needlessly punishes people who like it, but who might not have been terribly effective at actually using it. Yes, I can play Gold. Most of my friends can't and don't, and they don't post here. A good rate of fire and low weight is meaningless when the weapon has loltastic damage. Disciple, I'm looking at you. 

Don't kill the Piranha, please.

Modifié par Acyl, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:12 .

[A Wild Snorlax]

Good damage and light weight. I rarely use it any more though, prefer the reegar, talon or claymore as I find them more fun. Nerfing it seems uncalled for, it's good but not over the top amazing outside og geth characters or the destroyer. Nerf it any more than you allready have and it goes down in the garbage bin with the krysae.

[pisonmison]

the other ones are to heavy, or deal less damage, piranha is a good allrounder, not hta heavy and deals good damage

[kr3g]

Because we don't have any more "true" shotgun. All others either weak, have just 1 shot, or unique (gps/graal). That's not making them bad, but where is gold-worthy analog of katana? You know, a wraith but with a 4-5 shots in clip, and decent RoF.

[MaxShine]

megabeast37215 wrote...

For everyone bashing the Wraith... you're doing it wrong. Aim for the head.

Tried that already, makes no difference vs Prime/Banshee/Atlas/Brute/Ravager... The Wraith needs to be better against these enemies

[megabeast37215]

Pedactor wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

I think Eric's proposal seems to be, at least somewhat, in agreement with most answers here.

He has no desire to touch its damage or rate of fire which, is why he is proposing a 2 shot reduction in the clip.

No, it's not.

The gun's representation is high due to Geth Infiltrators and Destroyers, two of the best classes, having accuracy bonuses that allow this thing to be effective at nearly all ranges and insane rates of fire.

Don't touch its clip capacity.  Increase its spread further and slow its rate of fire.

Significant amounts, too. 

Scimitar and Wraith get buffed and everybody should then be happy since there's 3 guns available to do what the one weapon is doing now.

And one could argue that the wider spread would actually be a boon to CQC-focused classes.

Nothing else about it needs to be changed.  It needs its effective range reduced significantly on the GI and Destroyer and you will see higher representation of other shotguns and the Talon.

Lot of truth in this post.

I'm still sticking to my "Nerf the damage Significantly/Increase ROF/Increase Clip" idea of modifying the weapon so it's less affected by armor but still wrecks mooks.

It's really only it's damage vs bosses that makes it OP.

[A4RiZ0812]

Wow.
When the piranha gets nerfed to ****, atleast we told you so and you gave us the reasons why its being nerfed! Everyone knows the reasons why its being used but its a case of improving the other shotguns, rather than nerfing this.
Don't give us reasons to trade this game over the weekend .
.

[megabeast37215]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

For everyone bashing the Wraith... you're doing it wrong. Aim for the head.

Tried that already, makes no difference vs Prime/Banshee/Atlas/Brute/Ravager... The Wraith needs to be better against these enemies

AP ammo or Warp Ammo/Shredder Mod.... then shoot/reload as fast as you can... I usually hipfire in that situation.

Or you can just keep using the Piranha on 50+% of your classes... making the game even more dull.