740 réponses à ce sujet

[dima_che]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Claymore - I don't like reload cancelling, I consider it unfair. This is only about myself, great gun for everyone else on gun-DPS characters.

GPS - love it, but can't play it off-host. And when I'm hosting, all my friends start to complain - so no use apart from doing solo weekend challenge on bronze.

Graal - same as above.

Disciple - used it before Piranha on Casters. Now I would use it on Shadow \\ Paladin \\ any caster if it was on par with Piranha, but... It's stopping power from description does not match my field experience. And well... Lower damage per shot, lower rate of fire, lower ammo capacity per clip - why is it in the same tier as Piranha ? It is on par with Eviscerator - nice Silver weapon.

Reegar - Love that gun in CQC. I usually take it on Kroguard \\ Vorcha instead of Piranha.

Wraith - l1 weapon against l10 Piranha - easy choice here. But I would love it at l5+, because of:
- I play gold for fun, I'm not into Platinum where every bit counts.
- I love the sound and handling.
- It actually FEELS like a real shotgun.

Crusader - I don't like sniper rifles, especially those taking a slot from better weapon. I suck at aiming, especially off-host. Description states it for elite operatives - as I said, I'm a Gold player, not Platinum, so whatever. Plus I can think of it as a good backup for Demolisher, but I still can't unlock her. Why should I take it above Reegar \\ Piranha \\ Claymore for QC if I would use Harrier as a prime gun-DPS ? Maybe Demolisher would work fine with Crusader \\ Hurricane pair ?

Piranha is great for Shadow \\ Paladin, cause I like them close and personal. I don't use GI - hate the view, so this shotgun is exactly at the needed for me niche - very close range DPS. And 170% cooldown is good for them both, as they are (at least in my builds) caster \\ CQC specialists. I do agree though, that recent degrade of damage was ok, and I totally agree it should be UR - that would prohibit most people from gaining great DPS and great CD simultaneously.

Forgive my possible mistakes - English is not my native.

[Vlandis]

I use the GPS, Claymore, and Reegar mostly.
I do use the Piranha on the N7 Paladin, but thats because of how I play him, running up to spawns ->snap freeze/energy drain -> shield bash -> then mop up with the pirahna.

I think most people use it because it's an assault(full auto) shotgun, and extreamly light at that. Also It's a hit-scan weapon

[john-in-france]

megabeast37215 wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

For everyone bashing the Wraith... you're doing it wrong. Aim for the head.

Tried that already, makes no difference vs Prime/Banshee/Atlas/Brute/Ravager... The Wraith needs to be better against these enemies

AP ammo or Warp Ammo/Shredder Mod.... then shoot/reload as fast as you can... I usually hipfire in that situation.

Or you can just keep using the Piranha on 50+% of your classes... making the game even more dull.

I agree with Megabeast, you are using it wrong. I have no problems with the Wraith on Gold...and LMAO... Ravagers are easy meat for Wraith users, aim at where the large front sack is and watch the Ravager die.

Ideally it would have either a slightly faster refire rate or 3 shots to be perfect.

[Kenadian]

As has been said constantly, the Wraith's only problem is its abysmal RoF and that weirdly long refire time.

[KrizB]

Derek Hollan wrote...
So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

Fire rate and capacity  are the main reasons I use the Piranha.

High damage is nice but low magazine/tube capacity and slow rates of fire really hurt when fighting off a swarm of enemies and any one of them can 'stun lock' you to death even after taking a shot to the face.


Changes I would like to see;
Katana- Increase mag size and ROF
Eviscerator- same ^^^, also add armor pierce like in description
Wraith- same ^^^
Disicple- same ^^^
Scimitar- Increase damage
Graal- Seems fine as is, but don't really use because of 'host projectile lag'
GPS- Fine as is
Reegar- Fine as is
Claymore- Slight reload speed increase/ remove stun lock reload blocking
Crusader- Reduce recoil

Modifié par KrizB, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:53 .

[LeandroBraz]

Brohak wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

Basically, by making it heavier. It's the only good shotgun that is so light so it's tempting to put this on all classes that need their powers. And on CQC classes (obviously) and the ones that have accuracy bonuses. That's a lot of characters that go well with this weapon.

but as I recall when they released earth, the piranha was created to be a "vanguard" shotgun, to use with Slayer and Shadow. Making her more heavy would kill her for classes like this two, that get advantage from cooldown bonus...

[LeandroBraz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

I would be ok with a smaller clip.  It still packs a punch and lets you cover a big area with damage.

This is a good idea, like the Harrier, she is OP but the lack of ammo keep her balanced...

[MaxShine]

megabeast37215 wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

For everyone bashing the Wraith... you're doing it wrong. Aim for the head.

Tried that already, makes no difference vs Prime/Banshee/Atlas/Brute/Ravager... The Wraith needs to be better against these enemies

AP ammo or Warp Ammo/Shredder Mod.... then shoot/reload as fast as you can... I usually hipfire in that situation.

Or you can just keep using the Piranha on 50+% of your classes... making the game even more dull.

Well, this is exactely what I tried. I still think the overall damage output of the Wraith should be about 20% percent higher. I enjoy using the Piranha on the Shadow only (but I got the Hurricane finally, so that might be an alternative). I try to avoid it on other classes because otherwise it will be nerfed until it is utter garbage.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Come on, BW, you guys seriously don't know?  A big part of this isn't just about in-game balance, it's about mitigating server issues.

The Piranha is easy to use and easy to get. It's simple, reliable (doesn't bug out), is super powerful and is just a normal rare, so it's obtainable.

The Claymore is hard to use w/o remapping my medi-gel button, which I personally don't want to do. Otherwise it is wonderful.

The GPS can't headshot and sometimes bugs out off host. Otherwise, it is wonderful

The Graal is nigh unusable off host. Otherwise it's wonderful.

The Disciple is a bad joke, as it isn't even a stagger monster.  <--  As it is, I'd take the Katana/Scimitar over that any day.

The Reegar is OP on the right character, but it's a niche gun.

I'd use the Wraith a lot more if the RNG wasn't so retarded. Take away the IV ammos, and let ppl who've maxed their Rares get URs. Please. This helps newer players too.

The Crusader is overweight for what it is, even though the last shield-gate nerf helped a lot. The Claymore and Wraith are far far superior.

[jamesaka11710]

Claymore - Only useful on classes where weight doesn't matter
Geth Plasma Shotgun - Works when i rarely play my geth infiltrator and often when i use the Demolisher.
Graal - Usually connected to overseas hosts, I find the graal almost impossible to use.
Disciple - It's a caster shotgun that does low damage, has a high rate of fire and staggers enemies sometimes. I don't play casters often, and when I do, I use Acolyte and Hurricane combo.
Reegar - Only useful for me if I am playing Vorcha or stick Incindiary Ammo with it on my Geth Infiltrator. Extreme close range is hard to compensate for on an overseas connection.
Wraith - It's firerate is way too low for it to be effective. Though if I got to atleast level 7 I might give it a shot.
Crusader - Insane weight at the level I have it, lower damage per shot than Claymore.
Pirahna - Only use it on my Destroyer as a back up for the Particle Rifle. It does too low damage due terrible accuracy to be of any use on the other classes.

I'd also like to point out that I VERY RARELY use any equipment. If i do, it's because I'm using a specialist class with a special weapon like the Reegar or Particle Rifle for the great accuracy, rate of fire and DoT provided from their passive bonuses, and therefore extra damage. I never use equipment on caster classes.

[LeandroBraz]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

You know what make choosing weapons a tough choice? Differences. You guys should try to find a way to highlight even more the differences between the weapons, don't ask me how =P For example, both disciple and piranha have low weight, but the disciple lack something that make her as atractive as the piranha, a difference. She don't need to make the same damage as piranha, she need something that make her unique, since she is not the only low weight shotgun.

 If you have a weapon with low damage, you must give me a compeling reason to considere a good idea to put aside my need for damage, and choose her. I mean, give me a reason to use the disciple. Not high damage, I already have a weapon with low weight and high damage, so what can you bring to the disciple that would make her compeling?

[The_Pretender00]

Why use the piranha? It's a fully automatic shotgun... With wide spread and a light weapon enough weapon for casters, there isn't any other shotgun like it, I personally don't like the other guns because they are slow, but even if you look at other games with shooters, i.e COD and BF3 (before anyone starts having a go, I don't like these games BUT I used to play them alot) and when you get shotgun users on those games they always picked things like the AA12 (I think that's what it's called) because its a fully automatic shotgun, I use assault rifles, the piranha was the first shotgun I really relied on after the disciple, which I only used with my novaguard... So that's my reasoning.

[LeandroBraz]

Derek Hollan wrote...

najzere wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

Increase rate of fire on other shotguns, that's the only reason I like the Piranha in the first place. If you decrease RoF for the Piranha or lower its clip size, I'll just avoid using like I already do with other shotguns. If you decreased the damage for Piranha I would still use it. No matter what you do to nerf the Piranha I won't like  it, however.

Increasing ROF of other shotguns increases DPS of each shotgun. You do that with which throws the damage economy out of whack.  You would have to decrease the damage of those shotguns to compensate.

and it would make all shotguns look like the same. We need to find a way to highlight the differences, to make the advantages of each weapon a real advantage...

[upinya slayin]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

Pirhanna is only great on a GI or somehting with accuracy and ROF buffs. On most characters I actually prefer a claymore. but I'll use pretty much all of those. except the disciple. I've tried it several times over. its a crap weapon. The crusader is too heavy to use for any class that is power heavy. Wraith is probably the bets all around shotgun. lightweight, 2 shots, packs a punch, can be used on any character. it needs a ROF buff though. The reegar is beast for anyhtign up close (vorcha with flamer, kroguard , etc)

People take teh pirhanna cause they don't know any better and its easy to use. plus its the only automatic shotgun

[ultima2006]

It's one of the newest weapons in the game. I also replaced the pistols with the acolyte. I like the claymore better, to be honest, but in caster classes it's just a no-go because of the weight. If the disciple would stagger reliably I would consider it as a good option for my adepts and vanguards.
As for the GPS and Graal, I really don't like charging for my main weapon (I use the acolyte as secondary so no problem there); I guess I like playing close qtrs with shotguns which makes the Reegar another of my favorites.
I admit I have not used the other shotguns that much but when I tried the piranha I liked the fact that It is good for killing mooks as well as bosses (in CQ) whereas the other shotguns are really good for one but not the other.

[LeandroBraz]

I don't care so much about damage, I care about variety. I like to play with different guns when I change the build (I'm always promoting and changing), but they need to few different, to play different. I will ignore a weapon that have nothing special.

I used the piranha only when it was released, didn't touched it ever since ^^ I'm busy with other weapons...

[billy the squid]

I'm not.

GPSG on the Geth Characters for the bonus damage, but it weighs a ton.
Claymore on anything Krogan, as I can deal with the massive weight and it'll be my main weapon.
Wraith, ultra rare and get's beaten out by the Pirahna easily.
Disciple. Meh not worth it. on a caster maybe, but if you're getting that close to something, then something has gone very wrong.

Pirahna: Light, packs a punch high rate of fire. Works suprisingly well on a Turian Soldier with marksman and Prox. mine. Especially when the Harrier's negative recoil bug causes no end of problems and still hasn't been fixed! But works well as paired up with a demolisher, destroyer even a shadow. depending on the evolution options.

In addition. It works well as an "oh sh*t" weapon at point blank range. Although you can't hit a barn door with it effectively at anything beyond short range

[Shampoohorn]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok, so most people seem to agree the other shotguns are good.

How would you propose to bring the Piranha in line with the other shotguns so you, as players have a tough choice of which shotgun to bring to the field, without disrupting the damage economy?

The Piranha seems to do much more damage than it's light 'caster' weight can compensate for.  I would bet you that people would still use it quite a bit if you added 0.2 weight AND dropped the magazine size.

Derek, your economy model would suggest that the player base is the marketplace therefor and use can be equated with worth.  The piranha is one of the most frequently and effectively used weapons I see in Gold lobbies. It's closest Gold cousin is the Disciple, and it falls quite short in both use and worth.  At the very least the Disciple should be elevated in value.

[tfoltz]

The Piranha has the following benefits:

-Light
-Fast rate of fire
-Full auto
-Large clip
-No charge
-Headshots
-Decent accuracy with choke

Take away full auto and you are good to go.

Claymore: Heavy and requires reload cancel
Geth Plasma Shotgun: Charge and no headshots
Graal Spike Thrower: Charge and difficult when not hosting
Disciple: Weak
Reegar Carbine: Heavy and short range
Wraith: Slow rate of fire and ultra-rares are difficult to obtain due to RNG
Crusader: Heavy and difficult to obtain

I will add, all the posts that say "I don't use the piranha" are just cluttering the thread since it is irrelevant to the question asked in the OP.

Modifié par tfoltz, 20 septembre 2012 - 03:42 .

[LadyAlekto]

After some thought and the hope the bw staff still does read this thread:

I would like to share how i buffed the wraith for my sp mod, make it act like a typical doublebarrel in terms of gameplay, a very high rate of fire allowing to doubletap an enemy with a slight increase to reload delay

The reason i choose to buff it this way was to give it something unqiue over the other shotguns and i belived the game would benefit from a double barrel

[Shampoohorn]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

After some thought and the hope the bw staff still does read this thread:

I would like to share how i buffed the wraith for my sp mod, make it act like a typical doublebarrel in terms of gameplay, a very high rate of fire allowing to doubletap an enemy with a slight increase to reload delay

The reason i choose to buff it this way was to give it something unqiue over the other shotguns and i belived the game would benefit from a double barrel

That's a nice idea.  The Graal and GPS are somewhat similar, in that you can double shot a charged/uncharged shot.  But the Wraith would be be distinct as an uncharged shotting.

How was the Wraith's recoil when you did your doubletap?  Did it take practice to account for?

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 20 septembre 2012 - 03:46 .

[Najarati]

Claymore -- Great damage per shot, but I'm not big on reload cancelling and that's what you need to really get the most out of this gun.

GPS -- I'm not a fan of charging my weapons; strong weapon, though.

Graal -- Have it, but have never used it.

Disciple and Scimitar -- Neither deal enough damage to warrant use

Reegar Carbine -- Forces me to get a little closer than I'd like; also seems to run out of ammo/plasma too quickly.

Wraith -- Don't have many ranks in this one; seemed okay, but nothing great given its rarity.

Eviscerator -- Haven't used this one in a while; nothing special.

Katana -- See Eviscerator

Piranha -- Pretty good; requires close range but gets results. I liked this one on my Demolisher.

Crusader -- Used to hate this weapon, but now I like it after the two damage buffs. Still, the targeting on it seems to be off: It will flat-out miss when it shouldn't. I mean the fired round will go straight through an enemy's body or head while doing zero damage (the enemy doesn't react, either). Getting this ironed out would be enough of a "buff" for me.

[LadyAlekto]

Shampoohorn wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

After some thought and the hope the bw staff still does read this thread:

I would like to share how i buffed the wraith for my sp mod, make it act like a typical doublebarrel in terms of gameplay, a very high rate of fire allowing to doubletap an enemy with a slight increase to reload delay

The reason i choose to buff it this way was to give it something unqiue over the other shotguns and i belived the game would benefit from a double barrel

That's a nice idea.  The Graal and GPS are somewhat similar, in that you can double shot a charged/uncharged shot.  But the Wraith would be be distinct as an uncharged shotting.

How was the Wraith's recoil when you did your doubletap?  Did it take practice to account for?

As i did put the recoil at 3.5 it was not that easy to doubletap something small at first, but it was such an incredible joy that i almost forgot i had my revenant with me and at the ened i could rather easy counteract, tho that was shooting first at the knees and then shoot when the crosshair was on their face

Modifié par ShadedPhoenix, 20 septembre 2012 - 03:52 .

[N7 Whiskey]

So after reading and replying to this thread yesterday/last night, I decided to try the Disciple again on a class that I thought might be favorable to using this weapon.  The N7 Slayer.

I figured Phase Disruptor (damage, efficient blast, shields) would do a good job of stripping shields so that the Disciple's stagger effect would be more consistent.  Well, it wasn't.  Versus Gold Cerberus Centurion, I was using 3 PDs, 4 Disciple shots and a Biotic Charge to kill them.  I can kill Phantoms faster than that by just not using a gun.


So my point from yesterday still stands:

Disciple:
Shots per clip increased from 4 to 6
Pellets to stagger decreased from 8 to 4

Piranha:
Damage modifier vs armor reduced from 100% to 30%

Wraith:
Shots per clip increased from 2 to 3
Rate of Fire increase by 25%

Eviscerator:
Shots per clip increased from 3 to 4
Add innate .15 meter cover piercing
Increase accuracy by 30%


You can make these changes without doing any direct damage buffs which shouldn't affect your Damage Economy.  We now have 4 caster friendly shotguns that all fill the same role but function very differently.  The Eviscerator is your long range, cover piercing 4 shotter; the Wraith is your medium range, high damage 3 shotter; the Disciple is your close range, medium damage stagger machine; and the Piranha is your close range biped slayer but with reduced effectiveness versus armored boss units.


THIS is how you balance the Piranha.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

I use it for close combat only, and generally only on characters that get an accuracy bonus.  It's too inaccurate for normal usage.  I'd rather use a Wraith or Claymore or Graal Spike for mid-range accuracy.

tfoltz wrote...

The Piranha has the following benefits:

-Light
-Fast rate of fire
-Full auto
-Large clip
-No charge
-Headshots
-Decent accuracy with choke

Take away full auto and you are good to go.

Claymore: Heavy and requires reload cancel
Geth Plasma Shotgun: Charge and no headshots
Graal Spike Thrower: Charge and difficult when not hosting
Disciple: Weak
Reegar Carbine: Heavy and short range
Wraith: Slow rate of fire and ultra-rares are difficult to obtain due to RNG
Crusader: Heavy and difficult to obtain

I
will add, all the posts that say "I don't use the piranha" are just
cluttering the thread since it is irrelevant to the question asked in
the OP.

Even with the smart choke, the Piranha's accuracy is pretty bad for anything other than close combat.  I disagree that it has "decent" accuracy with the smart choke.  The GPS, Graal Spike, Wraith, Crusader, etc. without the smart choke are all more accurate than the Piranha with the smart choke.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 20 septembre 2012 - 03:56 .