740 réponses à ce sujet

[Maker MEDA]

6 shot for Piranha seems like reasonable to me. But it doesn't make up for the short coming of these other guns like the Wraith that no one uses, not because of the Piranha, but because its rate of fire make Platinum overwhelming for the player, it makes Talon a better choice to compare. Lighter weight and faster rate of fire, second choice is no choice at all at the highest difficulty.

Alot of guns just don't add up. GPS is still useful mostly if you want to stagger Phantoms. But it doesn't have the fire rate to keep up with Platinums multitude. Piranha is still the only real smart choice right now, when you're playing PUGs and the other guys on the team are not as good, you need a go to weapon to keep things reliable. Fault it to Platinum's insanity difficulty and its lack of margin, not the players.

Graal will probably excel more on Gold then shine on Platinum.  People want a 25 minutes game, not a 30s.  And Piranha is comfortable and quick for a Plat run.  Crusader, I'm 6 months into this game, I only has it at lvl I.  It's unusable to me.  I do think 6 shot decrease will help players switch to Graal or GPS, especially now Graal has a buff to it.  Piranha is alittle too urber and ahead of the curve for its own good.

Still doesn't change the fact the player base is weakening and thinning out because there is no alternative smart choices to deal with things on Platinum levels.  We need more weapons alternative to make Platinum worth getting into, period.  Same old choices no good for any game.  We need new guns not designed for gold, but from the ground up made for platinum's heavy duty demands.

Modifié par Maker MEDA, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:23 .

[RoZh2400]

I use the Piranha, Reegar, and GPS, and sometimes the Graal.

Piranha: Lightweight, high damage, crappy aim, but it suits my in-your-face playstyle as any class, even engineers, I just charge right up to enemies, but don't die because usually they die first.

Reegar: Anti-shield/barriers, excellent range despite awesome power. Good splash, can kill 3 enemies in 1 clip if I slowly spread the plasma/fire like a flamethrower.

GPS: Auto-aiming. and strong charged bullet.

Graal: It shoots spikes. 'Nuff said.

[Los Tacos Bueno]

Its the ideal gun for the Slayer. Terrible accuracy doesn't matter when you biotic charge into their face. Throw disruptor ammo on it and you can fire off a shot between phase disruptor spam getting you tech bursts.

[HeavyTankZA]

depends on how i feel

mostly i use the crusader but if i want to just rip stuff apart i use the fish

[ForTuchanka]

I personally only use it on my Krogan Vanguard due to its light weight and power recharge boost.  The only other option I'd have with that specification would be the disciple.. and well... yeah... I go with the Piranha.  Other than that, I don't personally use it.   I've gotten used to the circular hit area and the mega cross hairs distract me too much outside of point blank range. 

[Elotana]

Piranha has the best weight/DPS ratio in the game and it's not even close.

The "disadvantage" of having to be in CQC range isn't much of a disadvantage at all since the metagame has favored CQC for a while now. Once a player reaches a certain skill level (I'm using "skill" in the broad sense to include things like map knowledge, enemy tactics, twitch aiming, etc) and becomes comfortable running up to enemies and nuking spawns, they'll always kill things faster up close than far away. Eventually even players who prefer to snipe will have to change to CQC just to get some kills once in a while.

This is universal when it comes to horde modes, given the predictability of enemy behavior. There's only two ways around it:

1. Constantly buff long range guns and nerf short range guns. This isn't a great idea because you're trying to hit a moving target. The advantage CQC has over long range depends on the "average" skill of the MP community, which goes up over time (remember when Gold was impossible?) but nerfing/buffing guns to try and match this skill level is horribly inexact and also discourages newer players.

2. Tweak the enemy AI, either by adding new and more complex behavior patterns, further randomizing spawn logic, or introducing entirely new units and factions. This is by far the better option in terms of gameplay but it requires a lot more effort on the development side since ME3 isn't setup to hotfix enemy AI. However, you won't crowd out new players and you're only limited by the number of novel enemy behaviors you can come up with, as opposed to balance tweaking which yields diminishing returns.

I know ME3's infrastructure is set up for the first approach, so I don't expect the devs to be able to shift gears like this. But it's something to think about for your next game.

Let me give you an example: Phantoms are an enemy that's almost impossible to beat (without Stasis) until you learn their behavior, and suddenly they become trivial for every class. But what if devs could change and improve their behavior in response to the metagame? I know as a Drell that I can Pull a Phantom and they'll go into their pose even if their barrier is up. What if, one week, they didn't, and just kept shooting instead?

Those are the kind of balance changes that would produce an interesting and long-lasting horde game.

EDIT: Accidentally posted this twice because this thread is moving so damn fast

Modifié par Elotana, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:15 .

[N7-RedFox]

I prefer the GPS, Claymore and Reegar to the Piranha. For me the piranha is too reliant on weapon mods/gear and soldier class. I like a weapon i can use on all classes.

I would use the Crusader more often but there's something not quite right with its hit registry. Often i'll aim, my crosshair goes red and i fire but the shot misses even at mid-range. As if there's some sort of delay. Funnily enough this only happens on headshots. If i aim for the body i hit it every time. I'm a fairly decent marksman as well and get headshots on moving targets with my Paladin from long distance. But for some reason the Crusader misses - even when i'm hosting.

Piranha on the other hand, i haven't used that in weeks since the first nerf it got. Same with the Krysae - that gun is downright unusable now that its RoF is so bad. I've had enemies roll out of the way of it projectiles or simply walk on by as they miss coz the rounds move so slowly. Forget about the Piranha, give the Krysae it's RoF back. You already nerfed it in 5 other places

Modifié par CaptainTeabag, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:14 .

[OneTrueShot]

Someone hit on the genuine reason it's used:

It's good for boss mobs.

The others would be too, but, no headshot hitbox, so, we're forced to go for more lead, less skill.

A shotgun average against standard mobs and amazing against bosses, or a shotgun that's amazing against standard mobs and below average against bosses? The shotguns you mentioned, with the exception of Reegar and Claymore (In optimal settings) are limited by ammo count, skill and effectiveness.

Reeger is limited by range, Claymore is limited by clip size.

Modifié par OneTrueShot, 19 septembre 2012 - 09:14 .

[DullahansXMark]

Reegar's a bit too heavy for some of my sets. Though I do much prefer it to the Piranha, hence why my sets seldom use the Piranha.

[hawgwild5757]

I haven't really used the Piranha that much, mainly because it's range is so limited and the fact that I usually play U/U. On characters where I'm concerned about cooldown and only carry one weapon I want one that will do both short and long range damage (or at least medium range) since it sucks getting dumped into a big, open map with no long range weapon. The Piranha does no damage at long range and not that much at medium range, even with the smart choke.

When I'm not as concerned with cooldown I've sometimes carried it as a close range weapon in tandem with a SR or AR, but more often than not I'll use the Reegar for that. Shields just evaporate under Reegar fire and while it doesn't do that much against armor, by the time I empty the Reegar I'm ready to step in with heavy melee.

When I only carry one gun and it's has to be a shotgun it will be the GPS, but since lag seems to be getting worse for me and not better, I've had to rethink that idea when I'm not hosting. But it won't be the Piranha.

I've not practiced with the Claymore and reload canceling to be good enough with it. The Disciple is a great idea, but it's stagger is unreliable and it's ROF is way too low for the damage it does. The Crusader is a poor man's Saber. As much as I loved the Grall in the SP game in MP it sucks if you're not hosting...even worse than the GPS. The Wraith wouldn't be bad with a ROF buff, even with only two shots. The Scimitar needs a damage buff, the Eviscerator is made obsolete by the Wraith and the Katana is a starter weapon for noobs on bronze.

[Captain Funky Blimp]

Clip size, ROF, and weight.  The other shotguns, except for the Reegar, just annoy me.

[prog_bassist]

I only use the Claymore or the Reegar. The Pirahna was a good weapon at first because even though it had horrendous accuracy, it made up for it with damage. It was only ever good at ranges of up to 10m.

Yes, this is a "the other shotguns suck post". Frankly, they do, and to be closed off to that kind of commentary is unbecoming in my opinion.

Disciple: Too little damage, unreliable stagger
Eviscerator: Too little damage
Wraith: Small clip, slow ROF
Katana: Too inaccurate
Graal: Non-hitscan, charge mechanism
GPS: Charge mechanism

[Derek Hollan]

Here's something to consider when tossing around balance ideas.

You can't just buff all weapons.  There is a concept known as a damage economy.  This works just like other economies.  If a company gives all their workers a raise, then they have to raise the price of the goods they are selling.  The new cost of the items means the workers all need raises to afford them which, then means the price of the goods have to be raised.  Inflation, in other words.

Similarly, if you need to keep a game challenging, you cannot just raise all the weapons because then all the enemies will require buffing.  Then we are caught in a viscous cycle of inflation again.  The trick is to keep the game challenging while ensuring all weapons have equal footing.  Common weapons for Bronze, Uncommon for Silver, and so on.

So, no...you can't just buff them all.  It's complicated and delicate.

Cheers

[X M3TH0D1C4L X]

OneTrueShot wrote...

Someone hit on the genuine reason it's used:

It's good for boss mobs.

The others would be too, but, no headshot hitbox, so, we're forced to go for more lead, less skill.

A shotgun average against standard mobs and amazing against bosses, or a shotgun that's amazing against standard mobs and below average against bosses? The shotguns you mentioned, with the exception of Reegar and Claymore (In optimal settings) are limited by ammo count, skill and effectiveness.

Reeger is limited by range, Claymore is limited by clip size.

This.

[Teratoid]

So can we get a look at the statistics that provoked this thread?

Personally, I use the Claymore and Graal a lot. Reegar, sometimes. Don't find the others particularly entertaining.

[DeathIsHere]

I prefer the GPS to the Piranha. GPS has better accuracy and the charged shots help a ton. The Piranha's accuracy is a game breaker to me. It deals good damage and has a good fire rate, but as I said to my friend the day I got it: "It has the accuracy of a toaster."

[Mindlog]

Why was I using the Piranha?

It can do enormous damage to bosses.
It can work very well at range.
It can decimate crowds.

High Rate of Fire
Big Damage
Deep Clip

Annomander wrote...
just like the reegar, takes no skill and deals too much damage.

I believe the Reegar benefits from proper use more than any other shotgun in the game. While S&P works there is a large skill ceiling for players with great aim and know exactly how long to hold down the trigger.

[CrossKaiser]

Hmmm I use the Geth plasma shotgun because my Geth engineer loves Geth technology which Geth enjoy the most because Geth makes it Gethly powerful with Geth powers.

But seriously now, If i use the Piranha is because its lightweight, and hits decently enough. Also the rate of fire. The accuracy however... requires me to have my target 2 feet in front of me.

[gynoid]

I use the Wraith quite a bit, but the Piranha is one of my favourite guns. Why?
- I prefer multi-shot shotguns, which is probably a flaw in my playstyle, but still.
- Light-weight, and I play a lot of characters where that matters.
- Makes a satisfying sound.
- I like CQC.
- Fast RoF makes it a great panic gun (see above note about my playstyle...).

For what it's worth, I think the clip size nerf is very reasonable - and it's great that you're asking for feedback on this.

[Seifer006]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ok,

So, you have a Claymore, a Geth Plasma Shotgun, a Graal Spike Thrower, a Disciple, a Reegar Carbine, a Piranha, a Wraith, and a Crusader. All gold plus the ultra rare and promo shotguns.

Why are you using the Piranha?

And don't give me, "Because the other shotguns suck!" That will just get you ignored.

Cheers

I LOVE THE CLAYMORE!

It was introduced back in ME2. So I made sure to use it in ME3........like 90% of the time. I've mastered the Cancel-Reload trick (Thank you Bioware for bringing that back in ME3)

The person who actually got me interested in the Claymore was Kronner. He's like the Lord of The Claymore but he showed me how to use the Claymore properly........which greatly boost'd my score & skills.

Also there's the Wraith, I love this shotgun. It's like the all-around-shotgun for all caster-classes. It's light & powerful. I'm great with it. Other's don't know how to use it........well it's the same logic argument for the Claymore. Once you LEARN the gun is Deadly powerful.

[Big Jack Shepard]

I like to use the piranha because it sounds like I am slamming the lid up and down on a metal trashcan when I fire it. I figure that kind of noise is going to scare everything in earshot.

[BjornDaDwarf]

To be fair, I'm someone who changes guns a lot, and goes back to guns that I originally thought were terrible occaisionally, only to discover that I now like them (like the Kishock).  I'm mostly a Gold player, capable of Soloing with a few classes, and duoing with most. I'm not "elite", but I do think that I'm pretty decent. 

I pretty much only use the Pirahna on the Destroyer and Kroguard.  I have far better weapons that I like more for every other class.

Claymore/Wraith - I suck with these guns.  Seriously, I know how awesome the Claymore is, and I still never feel very effective with it.

GPS - It's awesome, have been using it a lot lately after not using it for awhile

Graal - I find it to be a very amusing weapon, and thematically it's great on Vorcha/Batarians.  Not a go-to weapon, but one I do use now and again

Reegar - An incredible gun that's only limited due to the exteme danger it puts you in.  I only use it on Vorcha and Vanguards

Crusader - I have a Saber?  The Crusader just doesn't do anything for me.  Which means that I have drawn it the most out of Victory Packs, of course.

[oXTheReverendXo]

I only use it on three characters: the GI, the Destroyer (big surprise, right?), and sometimes the GE.

I'm not a huge fan of shotguns in general. This is true for all shooters, not just ME3. I won't deny their usefulness and power in most games, but I'm just not normally a shotgun guy. I like a little bit more range and accuracy, and for me rate of fire is a must.

That said, I have messed around with the other shotguns. I like the Claymore on a couple of characters sometimes; I would like the Wraith more if it had a faster rate of fire; I like the idea of the Disciple, but it really needs a buff of some sort; the Reegar is absolutely devastating, but fairly character-dependent. As for the Graal and the GPS, I'm just not a big fan of charging weapons, which is purely a personal preference.

The reason I've taken to using the Pirhana more regularly is because of how it interacts with the characters I use it on. It does insane damage, has a great RoF, and is pretty dang accurate with the Destroyer and GI. On top of that, it's easy to use well. It's everything I like about an AR, but in a shotgun package. I won't say the other shotguns are useless, because obviously they aren't. It's just the only shotgun I really like.

[PeskySquirrel]

It depends on the class, but mainly its because its dps to weight ratio is so high. If I'm using a class that likes to get into cqc it's a no brainer, both for power using classes and those that don't. Even for classes that don't need to use powers, its dps is still so high that I'll pick it provided I know I'll be in cqc.

On my justicar for instance, she needs to be able to run up to enemies to cast her bubble, dishing out some dps and keeping her cooldowns as low as possible. The talon is kinda nice for the cooldowns but it doesnt pack the punch that the piranha will.

On a GI, I prefer other weapons like the harrier, but if I'm with a group doing platinum and we're specifically farming glacier for instance, the piranha will be my weapon of choice because it just rips everything apart.

The only time I'd go for other shotguns is for squishier classes that will have a harder time staying alive while being so close to enemies.