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Jessica Merizan: per estenbanus' brother "Synthesis Is Canon Ending" So, Usher In A New Synthetic Universal Order


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#276
Wayning_Star

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GreyReaver wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dark Delta 06 wrote...
LOL tried reading the OP post.... couldn´t get much... so basically it says Synthesis is canon?
Is this true or just a rumor? .. Soo confused lool

No, it doesn't say Synthesis is canon. It says Synthesis will happen anyway. If you choose Destroy, the Reapers will be destroyed, yet Synthesis will happen in time. And I don't understand why people dislike the idea since it would happen more naturally and at a more organic pace, without anyone forcing it on everyone at some specific point in time.

And it's a rumor.


I've said this before in this thread; "If synthesis is going to happend eventually and is therefore, ineveitable.  How can you say it isn't cannon?"  Please explain how synthesis' inevitablility doesn't make it cannon?


canon would tend to inflect the eventuality, but the eventuality isn't a chosen canon. Its the way the world works..in the MEU,that is.

#277
wright1978

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Dharvy wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dark Delta 06 wrote...
LOL tried reading the OP post.... couldn´t get much... so basically it says Synthesis is canon?
Is this true or just a rumor? .. Soo confused lool

No, it doesn't say Synthesis is canon. It says Synthesis will happen anyway. If you choose Destroy, the Reapers will be destroyed, yet Synthesis will happen in time. And I don't understand why people dislike the idea since it would happen more naturally and at a more organic pace, without anyone forcing it on everyone at some specific point in time.

And it's a rumor.


I dislike the idea because i intensely dislike the idea of railroading all other ending choices into the synthesis ending. Basically going other endings are worthless because synthesis will happen anyway.

No that not really what it means. Its no different than having a reason the Reaper forces are gone for a Synthesis or Control ending because of the Destroy ending. 

So in other words you pick or someone picked Destroy or Control so as to prevent the Galaxy or certain races or individuals from ever coming up with a way to implement a form of synthesis, even if its done on their own? Is that the only reason people picked Destroy or Control and their ending is ruined now because a form of synthesis could be in it?


Yes and that's an equallybad part of it. Removing a core part of other endings in order to jam all endings into one homogenous atrocious mess.

#278
devSin

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Dharvy wrote...

No that not really what it means. Its no different than having a reason the Reaper forces are gone for a Synthesis or Control ending because of the Destroy ending.

It's not different for control, but it's entirely different for synthesis. The Reapers being gone doesn't invalidate the principle of this ending, that peace is only possible through synthesis.

This is simply saying that one choice was correct (you had the choice to do the right thing, the necessary thing, to create the new future that is coming no matter what), making the others just a case of "well, we may all have ended up in the same place, but at least the person who made the decision chose to let us endure all that crap in between so that it could happen spontaneously after a few thousand years".

If it's simply an inevitably, then it is not a choice, and every other ending is wrong. If you want to complete the trilogy correctly, you must choose synthesis, becase BioWare has said now that any future version of the setting will be post-synthesis. As the brat said, this is the next stage of life, and it is one that must be taken—the ending is not some noble choice to protect your morals or preserve life or give people the right to determine their own values, their own future; the ending is whether you have the courage to lead people up out of the darkness and into the light that is waiting for them.

If you chose anything but synthesis, you lacked that courage, and you failed. That is BioWare's Mass Effect.

Modifié par devSin, 20 septembre 2012 - 09:53 .


#279
3DandBeyond

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[quote]devSin wrote...

[quote]AlexMBrennan wrote...

Source or it didn't happen[/quote]Here is the post.

Not somebody heard from somebody; "I was there and this is what she said to me".

Note that she's speaking for the team when talking about synthesis, not giving her own opinion.

Now you can make the case that Jessica is not exactly reliable, but I actually believe this. It's not something she would offer up if it weren't indeed true (and she spent a whole week or two up in Canada before the extended cut was released, where she met with Casey and Mac and the team), and it tracks with the way they have presented synthesis in the game (both release and in the extended cut). We also know that everybody on the team who has expressed a preference (from Mike to Patrick to Jos) has come out in support of synthesis. (You can also clearly tell when Jessica is just winging it—the ridiculous answer about how Shepard lives and even where that scene occurs, which she just has to fabricate nonsense since there truly is no answer to those questions.)

Synthesis is the ending for ME3. You don't have to pick it, but it is what will happen. You can live under the delusion that you made some principled stand against this repugnant idea, that you have given the galaxy a way forward to determine its own future, but when the next game comes (that's set in the future), you'll be revealed to have made a meaningless decision that only forestalled the inevitable and served only to cause needless loss and strife.

[quote]FFZero wrote...

Jessica pretty much said the endings we have are 100% final and if we think anything will be added to the endings after the final choice then we have misunderstood things. She equated the ending of ME3 to Schrödinger's cat, it can be IT or it can be literal, neither is right or wrong. She also said something I find quite disturbing. The reason why Synthesis is seen as the best ending by some BW people is the fact that like the Starbrat says, it is inevitable. Synthesis will happen sooner or later. She said if they were to set a Mass Effect game in the future Synthesis will have taken place, either as a consequence of Shepard’s choice or because it’s naturally occurred.[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

The problem with it is of course it still could be just some information that some have gotten that BW wants given out.  She dodged some questions kinda sorta.  Now, I believe the person who posted it and I don't doubt at all JM said all that.  The only point is that some things get turned around 180 by the time another month passes or even another hour.

Consider also what she said, that things with DLC could go the way of DA2.  I think that's often missed.  Even I really missed that before.  I believe if they go with Synthesis, they will regret that choice.  No one in the game that was rational liked that idea.  The use of tech is more as something that augments us and while there's a lot of weird stuff going on in science today, it's still a great leap to think that this would be something everyone would embrace and that it would mean what it's said to mean in ME.  It kind of makes me wonder about the Doctors' departure.

Synthesis is artificially achieved, so people would have to want it or would have it happen against their will.  And, as it's shown it's an impossibility to have tech inserted into every living species that exists. 

And since NASA scientists (there is some dispute over this)have discovered that life based on arsenic (not carbon) exists on Earth, perhaps a new lifeform will take over when someone decides to perform galaxy wide synthesis.  Or, lifeforms that are now being explored with synthetic based DNA-why not just upload all our minds into things like the geth and so on and dispense with all that dirty organic stuff? 

Or maybe some energy based lifeform will just come along after the reapers and destroy the green eyed galaxy.

#280
Ieldra

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@3DAndBeyond:
Have you even read the Synthesis debates? When I say "those who pour excessive hate on one ending and its supporters" I mean it and I mean only those people. If mere dislike bothered me that much I wouldn't be here.

And no, if someone posts what I can only interpret as hate speech I will most emphatically not appreciate them for anything they like. In fact, I'd be tempted to have a closer look at what they like to see if it's really worth liking.

#281
Astralify

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

why wouldnt they just make refuse canon and then make ME4 into the game ME3 should have been?


That's actually good idea. I'm serious. But...um....no. How about they just LEAVE Mass Effect ALONE? Make new IP.

#282
RiouHotaru

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Uhhhh...you do realize that "Synthesis" as a concept is what she was referring to. The union of organic and synthetic into a new form of life. There's already a ton of sci-fi that states such a thing as a possible future outcome of civilization. That Bioware would write such a thing doesn't invalidate your choice. It just means at some point society integrates the organic and the synthetic.

Why is this a bad thing?

#283
3DandBeyond

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Ieldra2 wrote...


No, it doesn't say Synthesis is canon. It says Synthesis will happen anyway. If you choose Destroy, the Reapers will be destroyed, yet Synthesis will happen in time. And I don't understand why people dislike the idea since it would happen more naturally and at a more organic pace, without anyone forcing it on everyone at some specific point in time.

And it's a rumor.



However, this can never happen naturally.  Synthesis is the process of combining two or more things to create a new thing.  If you are saying that it means that someday we will just naturally start to grow tech within our bodies, that can't happen naturally either.

Tech is artificial.  Synthesis in this way would have to happen with it being put specifically into people.  And a lot of people reject tech as some good thing-some mistrust it.  So they wouldn't want it.  To them it would be like putting some disease into them. 

Consider the mistrust that exists now over genetically engineered produce-people fear it even.  Can you imagine some future where people mistrust and even hate synthetics and suddenly find it's integrating within people's DNA?  And just because the races in the galaxy are similar that does not mean they all have the same DNA that would accept the same things.  It might kill some.  Sure, this is speculation.  But if you speculate the best can happen you have to look at and say that this too can happen.  It just does not fit with things in the story and the idea that it would happen naturally is just silly.  Someone might one day use nanites in corn and people might ingest that, but that is not natural-it's actually pretty horrid.

#284
devSin

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If you read some pages back, I speculated about how I think it could possible be used (in the context of future games, "synthesis" will replace element zero as the fundamental drive behind a lot of the fictional elements—they'd basically transform the setting, and explain away the changes as being the product of synthesis).

Meaning it's not an attempt to continue Mass Effect—it's an attempt to turn it into something else.

But like I also said, I find it more likely that they just don't have any plans to ever set anything after the events of ME3 (making the question merely academic).

#285
NM_Che56

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If this was true then that means synthesis lovers killed off Shepard for nothing. Lol

#286
Wayning_Star

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3DandBeyond wrote...


Ieldra2 wrote...


No, it doesn't say Synthesis is canon. It says Synthesis will happen anyway. If you choose Destroy, the Reapers will be destroyed, yet Synthesis will happen in time. And I don't understand why people dislike the idea since it would happen more naturally and at a more organic pace, without anyone forcing it on everyone at some specific point in time.

And it's a rumor.



However, this can never happen naturally.  Synthesis is the process of combining two or more things to create a new thing.  If you are saying that it means that someday we will just naturally start to grow tech within our bodies, that can't happen naturally either.

Tech is artificial.  Synthesis in this way would have to happen with it being put specifically into people.  And a lot of people reject tech as some good thing-some mistrust it.  So they wouldn't want it.  To them it would be like putting some disease into them. 

Consider the mistrust that exists now over genetically engineered produce-people fear it even.  Can you imagine some future where people mistrust and even hate synthetics and suddenly find it's integrating within people's DNA?  And just because the races in the galaxy are similar that does not mean they all have the same DNA that would accept the same things.  It might kill some.  Sure, this is speculation.  But if you speculate the best can happen you have to look at and say that this too can happen.  It just does not fit with things in the story and the idea that it would happen naturally is just silly.  Someone might one day use nanites in corn and people might ingest that, but that is not natural-it's actually pretty horrid.


according to evolution, the genetic learning process only requires time and stimulus. So it's not impossible. The fear factor is really moot,compared to immediate threats posed and are not in speculation.

#287
M920CAIN

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GreyReaver wrote...

From the thread, "Say Yes To A Canon Ending"

estebanus wrote...

When my brother was at games com this year, he talked to Jessica Merizan, who said that if they'd make any sequels, Synthesis will have happened either way. It doesn't matter if Shepard chose it or not, it will still have transpired at that point.


So, It's all comes back to the Neocon's New World Order or in this case, A Synthetics New Universal Order:

A Synthetics New Universal Order

As the Mass Effect story draws to a close, the Synthetic race stands as the Universe’s pre-eminent power. Having
led the races to victory in the War of Harvest, Synthetics face an opportunity and a challenge: Do Synthetics have the vision to build upon the achievements of past races?

Do Synthetics have the resolve to shape a new Universal Order favorable to the Synthetics principles and interests?

In response to these questions, Synthetics state their aim to instruct the entire Universe of "lessons" learned from our War of Harvest and our Galactic history, drawing the following "four consequences" for Synthetics now and in the future:

·we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our Universal responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

·we need to find, build and strengthen our ties to Universal allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

·we need to promote the cause of Universal political and economic freedom; based on Synthesis [and]

·we need to accept responsibility for Synthetics unique role in preserving and extending a Universal Order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

F--k u. 


I'm ready for my ban now.

#288
3DandBeyond

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You have to really determine what kind of things you are combining in any future synthesis. There are many discussions of some things happening-the use of nanites in medicine and other areas, however. But, it's one thing to use nanites for internal repair and to deliver medication or to act as the framework upon which the body can build new material and it's another thing for it to be integrated into our genetic coding.

#289
RiouHotaru

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3DandBeyond wrote...

You have to really determine what kind of things you are combining in any future synthesis. There are many discussions of some things happening-the use of nanites in medicine and other areas, however. But, it's one thing to use nanites for internal repair and to deliver medication or to act as the framework upon which the body can build new material and it's another thing for it to be integrated into our genetic coding.


The "another thing" is why the genre is called "science fiction".

#290
Ieldra

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
No, it doesn't say Synthesis is canon. It says Synthesis will happen anyway. If you choose Destroy, the Reapers will be destroyed, yet Synthesis will happen in time. And I don't understand why people dislike the idea since it would happen more naturally and at a more organic pace, without anyone forcing it on everyone at some specific point in time.

And it's a rumor.

However, this can never happen naturally.  Synthesis is the process of combining two or more things to create a new thing.  If you are saying that it means that someday we will just naturally start to grow tech within our bodies, that can't happen naturally either.

Tech is artificial.  Synthesis in this way would have to happen with it being put specifically into people.  And a lot of people reject tech as some good thing-some mistrust it.  So they wouldn't want it.  To them it would be like putting some disease into them. 

Consider the mistrust that exists now over genetically engineered produce-people fear it even.  Can you imagine some future where people mistrust and even hate synthetics and suddenly find it's integrating within people's DNA?  And just because the races in the galaxy are similar that does not mean they all have the same DNA that would accept the same things.  It might kill some.  Sure, this is speculation.  But if you speculate the best can happen you have to look at and say that this too can happen.  It just does not fit with things in the story and the idea that it would happen naturally is just silly.  Someone might one day use nanites in corn and people might ingest that, but that is not natural-it's actually pretty horrid.

With "naturally", I mean nobody forces it on people. It's a normal technological development and they'll come to see the benefits on their own. The process may be slow, but I don't see many people with pacemakers complaining about the "unnaturalness" of the implants that keep their hearts functional. As a rule they don't even feel the difference. Such things are the start of integrating technology but I don't think it's the end.

#291
Dharvy

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3DandBeyond wrote...

You have to really determine what kind of things you are combining in any future synthesis. There are many discussions of some things happening-the use of nanites in medicine and other areas, however. But, it's one thing to use nanites for internal repair and to deliver medication or to act as the framework upon which the body can build new material and it's another thing for it to be integrated into our genetic coding.


I'm not a biologist or anything, and maybe you are so thats why it seems so absurd to you but from a Sci-fi story aspect maybe integrating it into our genetic coding is just a better way for internal repair, and to deliver medication or to act as a framework upon which the body can build new material. Basically I just see it as another Sci-fi story arc about how people augment or advance themselves through technology.

#292
N7 Lisbeth

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We already stopped war between Synthetics and Organics, witness our resolving the Get and Quarian war.

So, why do we need Synthesis again? To stop a war we already stopped? But just think, we can mass-indoctrinate everyone for no reason! Yeah, not going with that option, thanks anyway.

#293
sH0tgUn jUliA

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So Jessica refers to Schroedinger's Cat in her discussion? I remember that. Hmmm.... so the only way for Shepard to survive the ending of ME3 is to quit to the game before Priority Earth. Reason being is that once the lethal radioactive gas is released inside the box and Shepard could be alive with the radioactive gas in the box depending upon an earlier event, but if we open the box to check, logic dictate that Shepard is dead. So it is in Shepard's best interest not to do the experiment in the first place, and instead write our own Priority Earth. Enough about Shepard. I'm writing my own.

And regarding genetically engineered food.... in the United States people have no idea how much of their food is genetically engineered.

So are they talking about going Synthesis ending synthesis? or Deus Ex HR transhuman augmentation synthesis with this?

#294
devSin

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So are they talking about going Synthesis ending synthesis? or Deus Ex HR transhuman augmentation synthesis with this?

My guess is that they want to turn the setting into something that has a more Deus Ex-like feel. Instead of element zero powering modern technology, people now have synthesis genes, so they can manipulate reality and fly and calculate pi out to infinity.

The shared consciousness and new levels of existence and such junk would probably all get dropped. It doesn't make any sense to have a story set in that world.

But I'm not interested in either, that's for sure.

Modifié par devSin, 20 septembre 2012 - 11:10 .


#295
Junroku

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If this turns out to be true then that will be another sixty dollars i would've given to Bioware but instead is going to Project Eternity.

#296
munnellyladt

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Synthesis just doesn't feel right.
And it is literally an abomination of life,I mean if organics and synthetics were supposed to join their DNA together then organics would not of needed to make them.
As in if no race ever made anything synthetic then wouldn't synthesis just be impossible?
So nature would have not intended for synthesis to be"The final evolution of life".

#297
OH-UP-THIS!

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devSin wrote...

Dharvy wrote...

No that not really what it means. Its no different than having a reason the Reaper forces are gone for a Synthesis or Control ending because of the Destroy ending.

It's not different for control, but it's entirely different for synthesis. The Reapers being gone doesn't invalidate the principle of this ending, that peace is only possible through synthesis.

This is simply saying that one choice was correct (you had the choice to do the right thing, the necessary thing, to create the new future that is coming no matter what), making the others just a case of "well, we may all have ended up in the same place, but at least the person who made the decision chose to let us endure all that crap in between so that it could happen spontaneously after a few thousand years".

If it's simply an inevitably, then it is not a choice, and every other ending is wrong. If you want to complete the trilogy correctly, you must choose synthesis, becase BioWare has said now that any future version of the setting will be post-synthesis. As the brat said, this is the next stage of life, and it is one that must be taken—the ending is not some noble choice to protect your morals or preserve life or give people the right to determine their own values, their own future; the ending is whether you have the courage to lead people up out of the darkness and into the light that is waiting for them.

If you chose anything but DESTROY, you lacked that courage, and you failed. That is BioWare's Mass Effect.




HOW DARE YOU!!


I'm following this close enough to realize, you would have all humans related to those ****s?Image IPB

CRAWL back under yer bridge, NOW!!

#298
OH-UP-THIS!

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It'll be a cold day in hell before I'll purchase any game, that forces MY character to be related to plants!!!

#299
mass perfection

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Well I like Synthesis :P.I wouldn't call her reliable anyway.

Modifié par mass perfection, 21 septembre 2012 - 12:49 .


#300
TJBartlemus

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In my view of Synthesis...it is what the Reapers wanted the entire time. It is also a cheat. If it is truely inevitable then it shall be done on our own terms. Remember Legion's stance on the Reapers? The Geth shall create their own future? Now put humanity in there instead of Geth. Pretty much my feelings on the subject.