96 réponses à ce sujet

[Daihannya]

I just watched the video. I am impressed you even got the ms controller to work for you on the PC. I just can't use the MS controller on FPS games. I guess I have been spoiled by the mouse. After trying a bazillion times on multiple FPS, Just Cause is the only game I did well using the MS controller in terms of a FPS, or third person shooter.

Hosting the game has lots of advantages. I don't know if you ever experienced this in the XBOX world, but difficulty is really dependent on the host. It's probably because PC players end up on a host clear across the other side of the world because the PC base is smaller, but I often find hosts where the enemy is hyper accurate, and they move like they have their own adrenaline module 3. Maybe this is where the increased difficulty level perceived by other PC players come from.

Secondary is the power of the hosting PC. Could be subjective on our part, but my son and I both both swear that when he is hosting using his older PC, we actually have an easier time. Compared to when we are using my PC as host. The difference is a dual core with an nvidia 545, vs a quad core with a 580.

[genomandril]

Props to the OP, Crusader is too much unforgiving for bad -gimped- aim.

[Machazareel]

I kind of suspected that Xpadder wouldn't be sufficient to properly emulate the controller support, but props for rising to the challenge, either way.

[llandwynwyn]

I actually didn't die. You're the only infiltrator of the team. lol

Try as a Batarian Soldier against Geth Gold on London next time.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

Xaijin wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

It's his standard mo alongside such humble gems as "WHY AM I SO OP" wherein he discusses for 7 pages how huge his epeen is and why are people hating on his obviously gargantuan epeen.

A credit to good players everywhere and the BSN community's reputation in general.

it does seem to be the case.
however - in contrast - he generally seems to be a polite and gracious person, and i can't recall if or when i've seen him get into the vitriolic mudslinging that generally goes on here.
he, from everything i can tell, is a competent player.   Does he come off as a bit of a braggart? maybe....  does he come off as a jerk / rude / condescending?  never that i've seen.   in fact in the thread referenced in the OP, there were several instances of people getting fairly nasty with him, and him defusing the situation by just laughing it off politely.
INVADERONE sir... are you by any chance Canadian?

[N7 Panda]

Rokayt wrote...

PC input is superior.

This

[TazMonkey2011]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

What I am saying is that if you going to test the AI at least let them see you for the whole match. If you are hiding with Tactical cloak the AI will target your teammates instead of you. How can you tell if the AI is harder or easier if they are not targeting you most of the match. Try a non-infiltrator class with a better shotgun than a crusader and repeat the test. Using an infiltrator is same for both but the AI's reaction to non-infiltrators should be different. When you cloak the the AI stops targeting you and starts going towards your teammates until you are the last person left, then Tactical cloak is kind of useless.

Believe it or not, even on consoles, we understand the mechanics of tactical cloak.
You already backed yourself into a corner.

I am not trying to disrespect you in any way we are doing this for science, its just how can it be claimed that the AI is easier or same on PC without even completing the match or doing the match without an Infiltrator. Even on Xbox 360 I am sure the AI ignores you when you cloak and lets you survive much easily doesn't it. The same thing happens on PC, that is all I am saying. Repeat the Gold test and Platinum has not even been attempted yet, that is a totally different experience in many ways to Gold.

Why don't you come on over to the dark side and play a game on console then and prove us wrong?
In my experiance TC does not work the way you describe it on a console. I do not know how many times I have used it and still been shot and killed in a match with 3 other players.

INVADERONE has taken your challenge with a low level character and almost no equipment or weapons. I say give him 2 weeks before he has the KIT to try and solo Platinum on PC. ALSO your own challenge was for him to join a PUG with the Xbox controller. Now you say he needs to Solo.

Come on man admit defeat.

[FasterThanFTL]

TazMonkey2011 wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

What I am saying is that if you going to test the AI at least let them see you for the whole match. If you are hiding with Tactical cloak the AI will target your teammates instead of you. How can you tell if the AI is harder or easier if they are not targeting you most of the match. Try a non-infiltrator class with a better shotgun than a crusader and repeat the test. Using an infiltrator is same for both but the AI's reaction to non-infiltrators should be different. When you cloak the the AI stops targeting you and starts going towards your teammates until you are the last person left, then Tactical cloak is kind of useless.

Believe it or not, even on consoles, we understand the mechanics of tactical cloak.
You already backed yourself into a corner.

I am not trying to disrespect you in any way we are doing this for science, its just how can it be claimed that the AI is easier or same on PC without even completing the match or doing the match without an Infiltrator. Even on Xbox 360 I am sure the AI ignores you when you cloak and lets you survive much easily doesn't it. The same thing happens on PC, that is all I am saying. Repeat the Gold test and Platinum has not even been attempted yet, that is a totally different experience in many ways to Gold.

Why don't you come on over to the dark side and play a game on console then and prove us wrong?
In my experiance TC does not work the way you describe it on a console. I do not know how many times I have used it and still been shot and killed in a match with 3 other players.

INVADERONE has taken your challenge with a low level character and almost no equipment or weapons. I say give him 2 weeks before he has the KIT to try and solo Platinum on PC. ALSO your own challenge was for him to join a PUG with the Xbox controller. Now you say he needs to Solo.

Come on man admit defeat.

He does not need to solo Platinum, just gold to have me convinced, but it has to be done with a 360 controller and with a non-infiltrator. Then I will admit defeat. Completing the solo does not automatically mean its easier on PC he has to honestly tell everyone himself if it was or not easier than soloing on Xbox 360. I admit their is one handicap that there is no auto aim on PC so if it cannot be done without auto aim on PC that would prove that console gamers are too dependant on auto aim and cannot kill things so easily without it.

I have played 100s of 360 & PS3 games and I now play only console exclusive games on them while the multiplatforms are all played on PC because they are better on it:

http://live.xbox.com...g=FasterThanFTL

http://us.playstatio...e=FasterThanFTL

Modifié par FasterThanFTL, 20 septembre 2012 - 12:21 .

[Caineghis2500]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

TazMonkey2011 wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

What I am saying is that if you going to test the AI at least let them see you for the whole match. If you are hiding with Tactical cloak the AI will target your teammates instead of you. How can you tell if the AI is harder or easier if they are not targeting you most of the match. Try a non-infiltrator class with a better shotgun than a crusader and repeat the test. Using an infiltrator is same for both but the AI's reaction to non-infiltrators should be different. When you cloak the the AI stops targeting you and starts going towards your teammates until you are the last person left, then Tactical cloak is kind of useless.

Believe it or not, even on consoles, we understand the mechanics of tactical cloak.
You already backed yourself into a corner.

I am not trying to disrespect you in any way we are doing this for science, its just how can it be claimed that the AI is easier or same on PC without even completing the match or doing the match without an Infiltrator. Even on Xbox 360 I am sure the AI ignores you when you cloak and lets you survive much easily doesn't it. The same thing happens on PC, that is all I am saying. Repeat the Gold test and Platinum has not even been attempted yet, that is a totally different experience in many ways to Gold.

Why don't you come on over to the dark side and play a game on console then and prove us wrong?
In my experiance TC does not work the way you describe it on a console. I do not know how many times I have used it and still been shot and killed in a match with 3 other players.

INVADERONE has taken your challenge with a low level character and almost no equipment or weapons. I say give him 2 weeks before he has the KIT to try and solo Platinum on PC. ALSO your own challenge was for him to join a PUG with the Xbox controller. Now you say he needs to Solo.

Come on man admit defeat.

He does not need to solo Platinum, just gold to have me convinced, but it has to be done with a 360 controller and with a non-infiltrator. Then I will admit defeat. Completing the solo does not automatically mean its easier on PC he has to honestly tell everyone himself if it was or not easier than soloing on Xbox 360. I admit their is one handicap that there is no auto aim on PC so if it cannot be done without auto aim on PC that would prove that console gamers are too dependant on auto aim and cannot kill things so easily without it.

I have played 100s of 360 & PS3 games and I now play only console exclusive games on them while the multiplatforms are all played on PC because they are better on it:

http://live.xbox.com...g=FasterThanFTL

http://us.playstatio...e=FasterThanFTL

Ill do it as well

[TazMonkey2011]

[quote]
He does not need to solo Platinum, just gold to have me convinced, but it has to be done with a 360 controller and with a non-infiltrator. Then I will admit defeat. Completing the solo does not automatically mean its easier on PC he has to honestly tell everyone himself if it was or not easier than soloing on Xbox 360. I admit their is one handicap that there is no auto aim on PC so if it cannot be done without auto aim on PC that would prove that console gamers are too dependant on auto aim and cannot kill things so easily without it.

I have played 100s of 360 & PS3 games and I now play only console exclusive games on them while the multiplatforms are all played on PC because they are better on it:

http://live.xbox.com...g=FasterThanFTL

http://us.playstatio...e=FasterThanFTL



[/quote]

Ill do it as well

[/quote]

Also Autoaim can be a hinderance more than a crutch in my opinion. You cannot properly lead a shot due to auto aim on a console. You can on a PC, I played CoD4 on PC and that was a big adjustment for me when i started playing MW2 on my buddies Xbox (we try not to get the same games on the same platform so if i have it on PC he gets it on Xbox and vice-versa). Same goes for ME3 i could lead a snipershot allday playing ME3 on PC but no can do on console
autoaim is more of a handicap than a crutch as you describe it. IMHO

Modifié par TazMonkey2011, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:19 .

[capn233]

peddroelmz wrote...


Should edit the inflamatory thread title then ...

It wouldn't be as "attention-grabbing" without it, as I pointed out on page 1.

Sp3c7eR wrote...

The AI is different on PC & console. Obviously they've kept hit points the same for balancing issues around guns and such but enemy behaviour is slightly more aggressive on PC. zHHk had access to both console & pc version coalesced.ini and he looked at the values for enemy response delay between "seeing" the player and initiating attack and it was lower on PC. Also the bursts that Atlases do are longer on PC (out of the top of my head it's 4 rockets on PC vs only 2 on console) so you don't get pinned down so often on console.

Enemy dodge/shield animation triggers more often on PC and enemy accuracy is higher. Also I might be wrong but enemies start shooting at you from further away on PC (could easily be tested on firebase dagger). I don't have exact values, but we had a discussion about that a while ago.

Obviously this is done to accommodate the differences in precision between m+k vs controller, but I think the AI difficulty is set appropriate for both in order to keep the level of challenge similar. Much respect to people who can use the controller well, I know I'd totally embarass myself if I tried.

Atlas bursts (cannon not the rocket is what I assume you mean) are 4 per salvo now, at least it should be since that was a hotfix (balance change).  Before it should have been 3 on both platforms if the MP balance changes are to be believed.  I never played on xbox so I can't comment on how that was before the change.

Not that I think they would have changed it, but theoretically they could manipulate these values without publishing them.  Coalesced already is not the source for anything that has had a balance change.  So it isn't really possible to say if it is still relying on the original files for reaction time and dodges... although I would imagine they had no reason to ever modify this.

Modifié par capn233, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:38 .

[Caineghis2500]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...

Thanks for this. I wonder if this has changed since that time. We did an Typhoon versus Atlast as a comparison on console and PC and PC Atlas always fell with one clip but the console Atlas couldn't. 

Yeah, I'm not sure if the Atlas "double damage to canopy" bug is PC-only. That might explain why it's easier to bring it down quicker on PC. Maybe if you repeated the test vs Geth Prime you'd see a much similar damage comparison.

Unfortuantely I've not played the game on console and even if I had it would be hard to tell such minor differences in AI.

The ultimate test of difficulty setting vs respective controls comes in the clearing times and we've seen a very close head-to-head battle of both console and pc in the speedrun challenges. If people are setting new records by only a few seconds and the title keeps changing hands, then I'd say the game's AI is well balanced. If that wasn't the case there would be no competition.

As I said to somebody in a PM, the only thing that might actually be harder on console is soloing and I'm only saying that because I haven't seen a non-infiltrator platinum solo done on the console yet. So if anything, that might be the only real difference so to speak.

I'll change that. I'm working on it

[Lives Must Die]

I have a feeling this all could have been avoided if you had used a keyboard and mouse. What did you expect would happen when you tried to use an XBox controller to play a PC version of a game? The main difference between PC and console is the control scheme. Given that you also don't have the same mods and were playing with other people, this is not going to be a "fair test". The only real test you could try is if you were to use the exact same equipment/weapons, on the same map, against the same faction with the same character on both console and PC. Use your controller with console, use your keyboard and mouse with PC. Don't expect to get amazing results soon. I think you should practice for quite a bit on PC with your keyboard/mouse setup before you even try to do this "challenge".

But... nice try anyhow. I've thought about doing the same thing, but if the price doesn't stop you from playing ME3 on PC, the whole idea of rebuilding your manifest on PC is easily enough of a reason not to even try for me. I'd like to, but even if I did get ME3 on PC, I wouldn't even have close to the amount of time to try to rebuild my stats and characters.

Modifié par Lives Must Die, 20 septembre 2012 - 03:11 .

[TazMonkey2011]

Lives Must Die wrote...

I have a feeling this all could have been avoided if you had used a keyboard and mouse. What did you expect would happen when you tried to use an XBox controller to play a PC version of a game? The main difference between PC and console is the control scheme. Given that you also don't have the same mods and were playing with other people, this is not going to be a "fair test". The only real test you could try is if you were to use the exact same equipment/weapons, on the same map, against the same faction with the same character on both console and PC. Use your controller with console, use your keyboard and mouse with PC. Don't expect to get amazing results soon. I think you should practice for quite a bit on PC with your keyboard/mouse setup before you even try to do this "challenge".

But... nice try anyhow. I've thought about doing the same thing, but if the price doesn't stop you from playing ME3 on PC, the whole idea of rebuilding your manifest on PC is easily enough of a reason not to even try for me. I'd like to, but even if I did get ME3 on PC, I wouldn't even have close to the amount of time to try to rebuild my stats and characters.

INVADERONE did this in response to a challenge from FasterThanFTL saying that if he could join a PUG using an XBOX controller and still say that thier was no difference in the enimies he would change his stance.
read the rest of the thread and you will see the original thread with the challenge in it.

[RaijinShinda]

I play the game on both platform's and I dont believe there is any difference in the difficulty between the two.

I say this because I use a keyboard and mouse on both platforms via the xim3 and the gameplay is identical to me.

sorry if this posts messed up I sent this from my phone

[INVADERONE]

Kardene wrote...

I play the game on both platform's and I dont believe there is any difference in the difficulty between the two.

I say this because I use a keyboard and mouse on both platforms via the xim3 and the gameplay is identical to me.

sorry if this posts messed up I sent this from my phone

Yeah this is how I feel also so far.

[najzere]

I think if there were any differences we would have noticed in gameplay videos by now. That said, I don't think the fact that speedrunning records are so close between Xbox and PC really means anything, since the factors everyone talks about (AI response times, aggressiveness, dodge routines, etc) don't even come into play when everything dies almost immediately.

To me it looks like console aim assist is the only difference between the platforms, to compensate for the lack of mouse-like precision. And it has its pros and cons too.

[Lives Must Die]

TazMonkey2011 wrote...
INVADERONE did this in response to a challenge from FasterThanFTL saying that if he could join a PUG using an XBOX controller and still say that thier was no difference in the enimies he would change his stance.
read the rest of the thread and you will see the original thread with the challenge in it.

Heh, seems like much of this thread ended up comparing PC vs console pretty quickly though. That challenge is pointless then from my point of view. It'd be nice if we had some developer insight into this I guess.

[tonnactus]

INVADERONE wrote...
 I purchased a 360 controller for the PC, Full version of Fraps and took the time to try.

Excuse me, why you needed to purchase an extra controller for pc??

Modifié par tonnactus, 20 septembre 2012 - 07:38 .

[Learn To Love Yourself]

I wish I could try this challenge. I actually don't zoom in most of the time when playing (on Xbox), so aim assist doesn't help or hurt me for the most part. It'd also be nice to be able to rotate the camera while running and adjust sensitivity more precisely.

[jakenou]

tonnactus wrote...

Excuse me, why you needed to purchase an extra controller for pc??

Unless you have a wired Xbox controller, you need to get a controller that works for PC. The wireless Xbox controller will not work.

[Tatsumaki]

Sp3c7eR wrote...

The AI is different on PC & console. Obviously they've kept hit points the same for balancing issues around guns and such but enemy behaviour is slightly more aggressive on PC. zHHk had access to both console & pc version coalesced.ini and he looked at the values for enemy response delay between "seeing" the player and initiating attack and it was lower on PC. Also the bursts that Atlases do are longer on PC (out of the top of my head it's 4 rockets on PC vs only 2 on console) so you don't get pinned down so often on console.

Enemy dodge/shield animation triggers more often on PC and enemy accuracy is higher. Also I might be wrong but enemies start shooting at you from further away on PC (could easily be tested on firebase dagger). I don't have exact values, but we had a discussion about that a while ago.

Obviously this is done to accommodate the differences in precision between m+k vs controller, but I think the AI difficulty is set appropriate for both in order to keep the level of challenge similar. Much respect to people who can use the controller well, I know I'd totally embarass myself if I tried.

This was precisely the reason I suggested those test types, not so much so to clock Time To Kill ratio but AI behavior. It isn't a question about Mob health, mob armor - but more response and behavior.
I had a hunch from watching multiple videos.

A simple test with the aforementioned context could be carried out. 1v1 versus an Atlas to see the fire cycle. IIRC on PC it is four times cannon into missle, then back to four times cannon.

The other mob which could be tested is an incoming phantom. Again, IIRC, she barely lets up with her palm cannons. Example of incoming phantom: Whilst running toward you as the player, she'll fire about 4-5 times. If you manage to land some sort of shot or fire off a warp or something, she'll pause for 2.5 seconds? maybe a one flip and home in again firing cannons.
The window of opportunity to return fire is very narrow.