227 réponses à ce sujet

[Enhanced]

KaiserShep wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

I wonder how many people would commit suicide if they found themselves synthesized all of a sudden I imagine many would not accept that kind of change to their bodies.

None. They gain a new level of intelligence. They would be too perfect to do that. "Organics will be perfected by intergrating fully with synthetic technology."

I'm afraid this only makes it seem even more venomous to me. Aside from "too perfect" making no sense, the very concept of being "perfected" in and of itself has a somewhat noxious tone to me. What determines "perfection"? How do we measure it? Seems to me that it has the potential to be a rather fluffy green brand of hell. 

Smarter, stronger, longer life span, injuries heal faster, no diseases, etc.

[AlexMBrennan]

As I said, I don't *know*, just that my gut feeling (based, among other things, real world events) is that it is odd that the soldiers don't even try to retrieve their gun just in case.

And by the same logic, you cannot argue that the event *should* null aggression.

[PsyrenY]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

And by the same logic, you cannot argue that the event *should* null aggression.

Why shouldn't it? I asked the Catalyst if there would be peace and it confirmed it.

[KaiserShep]

Enhanced wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

I wonder how many people would commit suicide if they found themselves synthesized all of a sudden I imagine many would not accept that kind of change to their bodies.

None. They gain a new level of intelligence. They would be too perfect to do that. "Organics will be perfected by intergrating fully with synthetic technology."

I'm afraid this only makes it seem even more venomous to me. Aside from "too perfect" making no sense, the very concept of being "perfected" in and of itself has a somewhat noxious tone to me. What determines "perfection"? How do we measure it? Seems to me that it has the potential to be a rather fluffy green brand of hell. 

Smarter, stronger, longer life span, injuries heal faster, no diseases, etc.

I don't believe life is simple enough that a list of comforts could determine it to be "perfect". 

[PsyrenY]

KaiserShep wrote...

I don't believe life is simple enough that a list of comforts could determine it to be "perfect". 

I actually agree with you. You have to remember who is speaking here - the Catalyst has a very simplistic view of what life is. This is why it believes melting every cycle into goo and storing them in a giant vat is "preserving life."

So it views perfecting life as simply removing the things that naturally get in the way, like disease, parasites, miscommunication, scarcity and hunger. In short, the reasons we create synthetics in the first place. 

This is why there can still be conflict in a post-synthesis galaxy - even after we deal with problems like those, there will still be the problem of dealing with each other. But by jumpstarting us, we at least won't have the problems of being rendered obsolete by syntheticsm and with increased brainpower for every citizen we can tackle the others in time. So his statement can actually be correct in a sense - we move towards perfection - and even if we never quite get there, we're better off.

[KingZayd]

Optimystic_X wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

And by the same logic, you cannot argue that the event *should* null aggression.

Why shouldn't it? I asked the Catalyst if there would be peace and it confirmed it.

Actually he didn't.

"The cycle will end" does not translate to "peace for everyone!"

[PsyrenY]

KingZayd wrote...

"The cycle will end" does not translate to "peace for everyone!"

Sure it does. "The cycle" or even "the harvest" is how it/they refer to the conflict.

[dreamgazer]

Organic/Synthetic peace =/= universal peace.

The potential for conflict in a post-synthesis galaxy is vast, perhaps even more than the other endings.

[KingZayd]

Optimystic_X wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

"The cycle will end" does not translate to "peace for everyone!"

Sure it does. "The cycle" or even "the harvest" is how it/they refer to the conflict.

The cycle would end if they decided to kill everything.

Also, and end to the reaping does not translate to "peace for everyone!"

[Enhanced]

KaiserShep wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

I wonder how many people would commit suicide if they found themselves synthesized all of a sudden I imagine many would not accept that kind of change to their bodies.

None. They gain a new level of intelligence. They would be too perfect to do that. "Organics will be perfected by intergrating fully with synthetic technology."

I'm afraid this only makes it seem even more venomous to me. Aside from "too perfect" making no sense, the very concept of being "perfected" in and of itself has a somewhat noxious tone to me. What determines "perfection"? How do we measure it? Seems to me that it has the potential to be a rather fluffy green brand of hell. 

Smarter, stronger, longer life span, injuries heal faster, no diseases, etc.

I don't believe life is simple enough that a list of comforts could determine it to be "perfect". 

I'm sure the word "perfect" only has positive meanings. So, whatever else happens, it won't be bad, "noxious" or some kind of "hell" for the races of the galaxy.

Modifié par Enhanced, 21 mai 2013 - 08:40 .

[Enhanced]

dreamgazer wrote...

Organic/Synthetic peace =/= universal peace.

The potential for conflict in a post-synthesis galaxy is vast, perhaps even more than the other endings.

Based on what we are shown in the game, what possibly gives you this idea?

Modifié par Enhanced, 21 mai 2013 - 08:44 .

[dreamgazer]

Enhanced wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Organic/Synthetic peace =/= universal peace.

The potential for conflict in a post-synthesis galaxy is vast, perhaps even more than the other endings.

Based on what we are shown in the game, what possibly gives you this idea?

Accessing infinite knowledge and hacking people's physical and mental abiities, as well as ideological conflicts. 

Hubris, ambition, power, conquest, and belief structures aren't just going to magically disappear. But there will be new toys to play with.

[PsyrenY]

KingZayd wrote...

The cycle would end if they decided to kill everything.

That's illogical; if they wanted to do that they clearly would have already.

KingZayd wrote...

Also, and end to the reaping does not translate to "peace for everyone!"

It translates to peace with Reapers, which is what Shepard cares about. Shepard doesn't actually care about galactic peace except as it relates to Reapers. - hell, even a Paragon Shepard allows the Blue Suns to continue raiding C-Sec weapon shipments, and merely convinces General Oraka to look the other way, because the alternative is Oraka's death.

[PsyrenY]

dreamgazer wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Organic/Synthetic peace =/= universal peace.

The potential for conflict in a post-synthesis galaxy is vast, perhaps even more than the other endings.

Based on what we are shown in the game, what possibly gives you this idea?

Accessing infinite knowledge and hacking people's physical and mental abiities, as well as ideological conflicts. 

Hubris, ambition, power, conquest, and belief structures aren't just going to magically disappear. But there will be new toys to play with.

Precisely. Conflict is still very much possible.

What is different is that the playing field is level, so it won't be just the super-rich megalomaniacs of the world capable of steamrolling primitive enforcement agencies with their advanced tech.

[johnj1979]

Synthesis doesn't work because who would like to have that type change forced on someone with no choice of it.

I don't think that anyone can be cheering for any of the ending knowing what the price of victory costs.

Modifié par johnj1979, 21 mai 2013 - 09:04 .

[Enhanced]

dreamgazer wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Organic/Synthetic peace =/= universal peace.

The potential for conflict in a post-synthesis galaxy is vast, perhaps even more than the other endings.

Based on what we are shown in the game, what possibly gives you this idea?

Accessing infinite knowledge and hacking people's physical and mental abiities, as well as ideological conflicts. 

Hubris, ambition, power, conquest, and belief structures aren't just going to magically disappear. But there will be new toys to play with.

I don't see that still happening in synthesis. Everyone has the same access to the infinite knowledge and they are all connected. Conflicts could disappear completely.

[PsyrenY]

johnj1979 wrote...

Synthesis doesn't work because who would like to have that type change forced on someone with no choice of it.

There are some, perhaps even many, who would hate it for that reason. But not all, as evidenced by this very forum.

johnj1979 wrote...

I don't think that anyone can be cheering for any of the ending knowing what the price of victory costs.

I cheered, and I am someone. It beats the hell out of being Reaped. Therefore you are wrong.

[dreamgazer]

Enhanced wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Organic/Synthetic peace =/= universal peace.

The potential for conflict in a post-synthesis galaxy is vast, perhaps even more than the other endings.

Based on what we are shown in the game, what possibly gives you this idea?

Accessing infinite knowledge and hacking people's physical and mental abiities, as well as ideological conflicts. 

Hubris, ambition, power, conquest, and belief structures aren't just going to magically disappear. But there will be new toys to play with.

I don't see that still happening in synthesis. Everyone has the same access to the infinite knowledge and they are all connected. Conflicts could disappear completely.

And I disagree, unless you're suggesting that the things I listed above do, in fact, magically disappear.

[Enhanced]

dreamgazer wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Organic/Synthetic peace =/= universal peace.

The potential for conflict in a post-synthesis galaxy is vast, perhaps even more than the other endings.

Based on what we are shown in the game, what possibly gives you this idea?

Accessing infinite knowledge and hacking people's physical and mental abiities, as well as ideological conflicts. 

Hubris, ambition, power, conquest, and belief structures aren't just going to magically disappear. But there will be new toys to play with.

I don't see that still happening in synthesis. Everyone has the same access to the infinite knowledge and they are all connected. Conflicts could disappear completely.

And I disagree, unless you're suggesting that the things I listed above do, in fact, magically disappear.

Ok, they "magically diappear". Now, how is that a bad thing?

Modifié par Enhanced, 21 mai 2013 - 09:36 .

[KingZayd]

Optimystic_X wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The cycle would end if they decided to kill everything.

That's illogical; if they wanted to do that they clearly would have already.

KingZayd wrote...

Also, and end to the reaping does not translate to "peace for everyone!"

It translates to peace with Reapers, which is what Shepard cares about. Shepard doesn't actually care about galactic peace except as it relates to Reapers. - hell, even a Paragon Shepard allows the Blue Suns to continue raiding C-Sec weapon shipments, and merely convinces General Oraka to look the other way, because the alternative is Oraka's death.

It's just an example. And no it isn't. Supposedly the Reapers were only harvesting us due to the control. With freedom they could try to wipe us all out. Isn't a big part of the supposed synthetics vs organics issue, that due to the differences in power, we're going to get wiped out?
Reapers vs non-Reaper situation has a significant power imbalance.

Not necessarily. The Reaping is currently limited to only advanced races. It could change to just wiping out other of those life forms.

Alternatively, the Reapers might decide they are the apex race and demand tribute from us if we don't want extinction. 

The Reapers might decide to "help us" along to our genetic destiny. And forcefully "evolve" us.

My Shepard was very much concerned with galactic peace. Hence the efforts on Rannoch to stop the killing.
That Blue Suns mission may have been one I refused to complete. It's been a while so I can't remember, but with my paragon I remember there was one mission I wasn't too comfortable with. I definitely remember completing the other 2 missions.

Modifié par KingZayd, 21 mai 2013 - 09:37 .

[dreamgazer]

Enhanced wrote...

Ok, they "magically diappear". Now, how is that a bad thing?

How are you planning on doing that without removing individuality?

[Enhanced]

dreamgazer wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Ok, they "magically diappear". Now, how is that a bad thing?

How are you planning on doing that without removing individuality?

Conflict doesn't have to result from having individuality or certain belief systems. They can become intelligent enough to find ways avoid all conflicts.

Modifié par Enhanced, 21 mai 2013 - 09:47 .

[KingZayd]

Enhanced wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Ok, they "magically diappear". Now, how is that a bad thing?

How are you planning on doing that without removing individuality?

Conflict doesn't have to result from having individuality or certain belief systems. They can become intelligent enough to finds way avoid all conflicts.

That's incredibly naive. Individuality ---> different wants, different opinions, different moralities, different priorities. Assuming finite resources (pretty reasonable assumption I'd say), conflict is inevitable.

Modifié par KingZayd, 21 mai 2013 - 09:49 .

[dreamgazer]

Enhanced wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Ok, they "magically diappear". Now, how is that a bad thing?

How are you planning on doing that without removing individuality?

Conflict doesn't have to result from having individuality or certain belief systems. They can become intelligent enough to find way avoid all conflicts.

Uh-huh.  I see.

[KaiserShep]

Enhanced wrote...
Ok, they "magically diappear". Now, how is that a bad thing?

Emotions are far too complex to break down into sections that we could easily remove. Exponging one could simply exponge them all. Unless synthesis is basically an upgradeable version of the Vulcans' Kolinahr ritual.