114 réponses à ce sujet

[thats1evildude]

Besides the financial argument, I think the biggest strike against finishers is technical issues. I killed more than a few invisible ogres in DA by stabbing my blunt mace into their forehead.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:19 .

[Darth Death]

John Epler wrote...

Finishing moves are very, very expensive content to create - even the Legacy finishing moves, which all used existing combat animations, took a total of about three weeks to produce (and that's 12 hour days, plus weekends). If I had the choice between reflecting the player's class/weapon or reflecting their personality, I'd choose the former - it's a better application of limited resources.

I like your comments. They're informative & professional with no personal emotions attached.   

[Maria Caliban]

John Epler wrote...

I should also add that, if we do choose to do finishing moves again, we would probably only do it for the absolute last creature of a group or for very specific situations where it makes sense. Having your character dramatically stab an ogre in the face was swell, right up until all of his buddies made mincemeat of your party because the guy you rely on to tank was busy being dramatic.

YES.

John Epler wrote...

Finishing moves are very, very expensive content to create - even the Legacy finishing moves, which all used existing combat animations, took a total of about three weeks to produce (and that's 12 hour days, plus weekends).

I find it odd that it should take so long. Given how much emphasis BioWare puts on its cinematics, I'm surprised you don't have more specialized tools.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:12 .

[Beerfish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

John Epler wrote...

I should also add that, if we do choose to do finishing moves again, we would probably only do it for the absolute last creature of a group or for very specific situations where it makes sense. Having your character dramatically stab an ogre in the face was swell, right up until all of his buddies made mincemeat of your party because the guy you rely on to tank was busy being dramatic.

YES.

John Epler wrote...

Finishing moves are very, very expensive content to create - even the Legacy finishing moves, which all used existing combat animations, took a total of about three weeks to produce (and that's 12 hour days, plus weekends).

I find it odd that it should take so long. Given how much emphasis BioWare puts on its cinematics, I'm surprised you don't have more specialized tools.

They do have specialized tools in the toolset.  There is a lot to take into account though, even after you make the animation there ia lots of testing I would assume that it looks good and works well under a lot of condtions in alot of environments.

[mousestalker]

No one has suggested a french polish as the mandatory DA3 finishing move?

If DA3 is set in Orlais, it's the obvious move.

[LPPrince]

I welcome finishing moves IF Bioware goes through the work to put them in.

[thats1evildude]

mousestalker wrote...

No one has suggested a french polish as the mandatory DA3 finishing move?

I assume that's the euphemism Orlesians use for visiting a prostitute. 

[AbsoluteApril]

As far as characters being injured while performing the move, could it be set for the PC (or whichever character) to not take damage while doing it? Maybe there's a lot more involved with that type of coding that I realize.

Love the finishing moves but had no idea that it took up that much time/resources to create, that is good to know as a reason why they may not be included.

John Epler wrote...
 Honestly, the less often a player ends up in a conversation or cutscene, the better.

Thank you! this is good news (to me)

[Pelle6666]

Did Kratos have bear hands!? =O Like some kind of greek grizzly?

Seriously though, I like the quick death/brutal death idea, maybe the way the finishers look could be decided by some kind of "renegade/paragon" balance? The more ruthless the character is the more brutal he/she will kill the bad guys?

[Shadow Fox]

John Epler wrote...

I should also add that, if we do choose to do finishing moves again, we would probably only do it for the absolute last creature of a group or for very specific situations where it makes sense. Having your character dramatically stab an ogre in the face was swell, right up until all of his buddies made mincemeat of your party because the guy you rely on to tank was busy being dramatic.

Reminds of how pissed I'd get when as a mage Al would get stuck in a finisher and the mob would go after me because he wasn't there to protect me.Useless squishy Mage.

[Pelle6666]

John Epler wrote...

I should also add that, if we do choose to do finishing moves again, we would probably only do it for the absolute last creature of a group or for very specific situations where it makes sense. Having your character dramatically stab an ogre in the face was swell, right up until all of his buddies made mincemeat of your party because the guy you rely on to tank was busy being dramatic.

Rather being realistic, in a real battle the final blow would take some precision and timing to deal. That would mean that the tank would be held up for a while. why not make it possible to activate the finishers in the options menu? That way the hardcore gamers doesn't loose precious hit points and the casual gamers could choose to enjoy realistic, cinematic battles.
 

[goofyomnivore]

I don't really like scripted finishing moves they become stale and predictable after a while. A rare occurrence like on a specific boss is fine if it fits the situation.

[LPPrince]

^thats what I want.

Have finishing moves on specific bosses, and have them correspond to the class you play and hopefully the type of weapon you have.

That means ARCHERY FINISHERS DAMN IT

[Palipride47]

John Epler wrote...

I should also add that, if we do choose to do finishing moves again, we would probably only do it for the absolute last creature of a group or for very specific situations where it makes sense. Having your character dramatically stab an ogre in the face was swell, right up until all of his buddies made mincemeat of your party because the guy you rely on to tank was busy being dramatic.

Agreed. For me, who played a squishy healer while my tanks were busy jumping like Shaq to stab ogres in the chest, it was a lot of pounding my spells and poutices. 

Also, some people (me) don't have fantistic computers, so those "finishing moves" do a number on the processsing power. Playing the final Denerim battle on my current PC should be a level in Dante's hell. Lot of suddenly dead party members an pounding talent/ spell buttons like crazy. 

i support cutscene style finisnhing blows like in  DA2

[Shadow Fox]

Pelle6666 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

I should also add that, if we do choose to do finishing moves again, we would probably only do it for the absolute last creature of a group or for very specific situations where it makes sense. Having your character dramatically stab an ogre in the face was swell, right up until all of his buddies made mincemeat of your party because the guy you rely on to tank was busy being dramatic.

Rather being realistic, in a real battle the final blow would take some precision and timing to deal. That would mean that the tank would be held up for a while. why not make it possible to activate the finishers in the options menu? That way the hardcore gamers doesn't loose precious hit points and the casual gamers could choose to enjoy realistic, cinematic battles.
 

Finishing moves aren't realistic realistic is quickly stabing a guy or lobbing his head off and moving to the next guy flashy finishing moves would get you killed quickly.

[SeismicGravy]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Skyrim style please. Not the broken DAO one where your character floats in mid air stabbing air.

+1, but as others have said, only on the more powerful foes, like ogres, bosses and perhaps the Alpha spawn variants.

[Palipride47]

 

SeismicGravy wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Skyrim style please. Not the broken DAO one where your character floats in mid air stabbing air.

+1, but as others have said, only on the more powerful foes, like ogres, bosses and perhaps the Alpha spawn variants.

But even only on ogres, if there are a lot of ogres ala Final Denerim Battle.....I think it sucks up too much processing juice and resources from Bioware to make more than maybe, 1 per extremely pwerful boss. My computer can handle Meredith cutscenes better than slashy finish moves.

But a sidenote: The Orsino end fight cutscene was really cheesy. Please no more of those. 



(Reminded me of this)

Modifié par Palipride47, 25 septembre 2012 - 09:59 .

[bloodmage13]

Yeah I am in total support of having finishing moves only for the final boss. It looked awesome in DAO

[formaristarry]

John Epler wrote...

I should also add that, if we do choose to do finishing moves again, we would probably only do it for the absolute last creature of a group or for very specific situations where it makes sense.

 I honestly can't think of a single instance in which my party died because my tank was being dramatic. And it was really cool to be the one dealing out the finishing moves. I hope to see them return, but if not, I guess you don't always get what you want.

[lx_theo]

John Epler wrote...

Cerberus Commando wrote...

John Epler wrote...

I should also add that, if we do choose to do finishing moves again, we would probably only do it for the absolute last creature of a group or for very specific situations where it makes sense. Having your character dramatically stab an ogre in the face was swell, right up until all of his buddies made mincemeat of your party because the guy you rely on to tank was busy being dramatic.

dude, a finisher during a "cut scene" cut scene! Not during actual combat! Oh and will you guys please take the nudity suggestion into consideration? I mean come on, we're never gonna climax wearing boxers.... U know what I mean.

That comes with its own problems, though - I didn't like doing the finishers in cutscene because it completely pulls the player out of the experience. Honestly, the less often a player ends up in a conversation or cutscene, the better. Not only from a purely player experience point of view (not wanting to feel like you're 'watching a movie' is a criticism that we see, and fair enough), but also from a designer standpoint - the more often you're pulled out of gameplay, the less impactful those moments become.

There's also a logical weirdness that comes up when we play finishers on mooks - if I can use my two daggers like scissors and cut off this guy's head, why haven't I been doing it all along? Seems like it worked really, really well, so why am I using any other ability?

What if it was a combination of the two? The finisher starts in gameplay, then the camera changes (still looking like a gameplay camera) and slowly becomes more like a cutscene after a couple more camera changes in the finisher?

[QueenPurpleScrap]

I admit I got some nice screensnaps from the finishing moves, especially in Origins. But enjoyable as they were to watch, I am fine with limiting them to the end of certain battles/bosses. I do like the idea of random finishes (even if only 2) and of finishes based on my class and weapons being used. I have to admit that much as I enjoyed some of my mage wardens, them picking up a big a** sword to kill the Archdemon seemed odd.

[Lokiwithrope]

Could always use more finishing moves. Gears of War and Mortal Kombat has a plethora of them we could take inspirations from.

[nightscrawl]

John Epler wrote...

Finishing moves are very, very expensive content to create - even the Legacy finishing moves, which all used existing combat animations, took a total of about three weeks to produce (and that's 12 hour days, plus weekends).

Please don't do them at all if that's the case. I'd rather have you use that same time to make sure all of the animations and interactions that we see most often are perfect, rather than ones we will rarely see.

And I agree with your ogre stabbing comment. I ran into that a few times during DAO =/.

[Yrkoon]

Yeah, spend less money please. We'd much rather see the same perfectly animated slash, slash, poke poke, over and over and over and over for 50 hours,  Instead of, you know, neat  rare stuff to look forward to that keeps combat feeling fresh and visceral, like chopping an enemy's head off every once in a while, or thrusting your sword into their stomach and then pulling it out as they fall to the ground, lifeless.

Just keep it nice and cheap, in the DA2 way.   Give us more of those  exploding lego pieces for our dagger-wielding rogues.

<sigh>

DA2 v2.0, here we come!

Modifié par Yrkoon, 26 septembre 2012 - 03:01 .