30 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

Mass Effect 3 made the mistake of having autodialogue in the game - which was quite detrimental to the experience - IMHO.

In DA3 - I sincerely hope the developers core goal is to make player agency a big deal - at least to the extent of Mass Effect 1, if not Origins.

If my character talks, I should be the one steering the conversation. I know you AAA studios like to make your games more cinematic, but if I wanted a movie, I would watch a passive movie - I wouldn't be playing an Action RPG.

I'd much prefer the *stand in a circle and talk* of DA:O - over, say, the over-coreographed active conversations of Mass Effect 3 - where fluidity takes precedent over player agency.

So player agency, this means:

• No Autodialogue
• No Narrative/Quest Shoehorning - all narrative should arise naturally
• Multiple quest solutions (like being able to betray the quest giver)
• No eavesdropping fetch quests - what if my character doesn't *do* errand

Fans, feel free to add more

[snackrat]

...and on the note of no autodialogue, I personally believe that if you provide the illusion of choice but the character says the exact same thing (eg Mass Effect, the original) that is basically the SAME THING but with LESS FLOW.

[Jessihatt]

This is why I preferred the silent protagonist, even though I understand the pros of a VA.

Plus I kinda like reading out the lines that I chose, in the emotion I imagined my warden would say it haha. 

I don't think anyone really likes auto-dialogue. (Even though it's needed sometimes to push the story along, but that's where companions came in in Origins.)

I don't particularly enjoy suddenly picking up quests when walking quickly by some background characters. However if a quest was to go and eavesdrop, I would gladly get my espionage cloak on.

Modifié par CommanderJessica, 20 septembre 2012 - 01:01 .

[Arppis]

Mass Effect 2's autodialogue imo was in control. In ME3 there was just too much. What sucked the most was the fact that there REALLY wasn't a huge difference between the replies, it was sometimes basicaly the same dialogue.

I REALLY hope this won't be the direction they take in DA3. I want voiced protagonist, but let me pick the dialogue on every reply.

Modifié par Arppis, 20 septembre 2012 - 01:00 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

In the original mass effect there were 3 choices that had the exact same outcome, don't want that.

But I agree with the rest, and more choices.

[Maria Caliban]

Needs more meaningless buzz-words.

Immersion!

[StElmo]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Needs more meaningless buzz-words.

Immersion!

You should read about player agency and immersion, when not taken as buzz words they mean very specific and very meaningful things.

[wsandista]

"More Player Agency" is always a good thing to hear.

[Nashiktal]

I agree about player agency STElmo but Mass Effect 1 also had auto-dialogue. A good chunk of its dialogue was really the same no matter the choice, giving you the illusion of choice without actually being any different.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Needs more meaningless buzz-words.

Immersion!

*takes two drinks*

Remaining on topic, I can see where you're coming from OP, but I do have to say:  

if your character "doesn't do errands" then don't do them?

Also I like auto-dialogue in places where it's not necessary to imply tone or what have you.  I don't need a million ways to say "I should go."

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:36 .

[StElmo]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Needs more meaningless buzz-words.

Immersion!

*takes two drinks*

Remaining on topic, I can see where you're coming from OP, but I do have to say:  

if your character "doesn't do errands" then don't do them?

But your ludologically compelled to do them through the game mechanics, as there is no dialogue option for you to go "NO THANKS YOU BUM!" and walk off like a boss.

Modifié par StElmo, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:38 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

StElmo wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Needs more meaningless buzz-words.

Immersion!

*takes two drinks*

Remaining on topic, I can see where you're coming from OP, but I do have to say:  

if your character "doesn't do errands" then don't do them?

But your ludologically compelled to do them through the game mechanics, as there is no dialogue option for you to go "NO THANKS YOU BUM!" and walk off like a boss.

Unless you're just itching to clear out the quest journal, I don't see why the game would compel you to finish a meaningless quest?

[wsandista]

RinjiRenee wrote...

StElmo wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Needs more meaningless buzz-words.

Immersion!

*takes two drinks*

Remaining on topic, I can see where you're coming from OP, but I do have to say:  

if your character "doesn't do errands" then don't do them?

But your ludologically compelled to do them through the game mechanics, as there is no dialogue option for you to go "NO THANKS YOU BUM!" and walk off like a boss.

Unless you're just itching to clear out the quest journal, I don't see why the game would compel you to finish a meaningless quest?

ACT 1 of DAO had you do several "main quests". Most of these were side-quests that Hawke had no real reason to do other to get money, but there other opportunities to get the required amount of $. It would have been better to have the only requirement be "get 50 gold" instead.

[Rinji the Bearded]

wsandista wrote...

ACT 1 of DAO had you do several "main quests". Most of these were side-quests that Hawke had no real reason to do other to get money, but there other opportunities to get the required amount of $. It would have been better to have the only requirement be "get 50 gold" instead.

Oh no, someone has to do something they don't necessarily want to in order to make money.

... oh wait i think people do that every day

[crimsontotem]

part of a thing that made BA 2 or DA:O the GREAT was that your character didn't say **** but companion's reaction depending on your choice of dialogue therefore drawing players more into the game while giving players feeling of complete interaction.

I would really appreciate if BW realizes that no voice-over for main character is actually a big plus in RPG like this.

[Massa FX]

I like fully VO games. I think instead of eliminating VO, find a happy medium between auto dialogue and the dialog tree. Maybe the auto dialog is a branch on the tree? You have both the full text based conversation with more detail and provide the quick VO auto dialog option A and B.

Compromise?

[StElmo]

^ What are you talking about? Why does a VA game have to have autodialogue at all?

[Cloaking_Thane]

Yea the auto dialogue in ME3 was a problem

[FINE HERE]

I agree with the OP.

[StElmo]

FINE HERE wrote...

I agree with the OP.

aw thanks

[cJohnOne]

Your OP was confusing to me. Maybe because I haven't played MassEffect.

Anyways, there is nothing wrong with a linear story. It's just more fun to have it diverge into seperate endings.

Is that on or off-topic?

[StElmo]

cJohnOne wrote...

Your OP was confusing to me. Maybe because I haven't played MassEffect.

Anyways, there is nothing wrong with a linear story. It's just more fun to have it diverge into seperate endings.

Is that on or off-topic?

Sorry man,

Mass Effect 3 is kind of like Dragon Age 2 with the dialogue options, but imagine virtually half the time you don't even actually get to pick a dialogue wheel option and your character talks without any of your input (the wheel doesn't even appear).

Player Agency is essentially the ability for the player to assume a role within the game and not feel "shoehorned" into doing things he/she does not want to do.

Obviously there have to be limitations, but that comes from setting a precedent in the beginning. If you could be practicing blood magic, then there should always be options for people who are playing as blood mages that do not want to go against their "role". However, your never going to play charlton heston landing from space, because the game never lets you assume that role in the beginning.

[EssEeeEcks]

RinjiRenee wrote...

wsandista wrote...

ACT 1 of DAO had you do several "main quests". Most of these were side-quests that Hawke had no real reason to do other to get money, but there other opportunities to get the required amount of $. It would have been better to have the only requirement be "get 50 gold" instead.

Oh no, someone has to do something they don't necessarily want to in order to make money.

... oh wait i think people do that every day

So why would I want to do that in a video game? Why do I have to?

[zyntifox]

My main issues with DA2 was the paraphrase and the auto-dialogue, but mainly the former. Trying to roleplay in DA2 was like playing Russian roulette. But instead of one chamber with a bullet it was five chambers filled with reloading screens. I swear i spent more time watching the reload screens than anything else in the game.

[zsom]

I disagree. Autodialogue is just something you can't leave out simply because there are certain situations where it doesn't make any sense to say something else. I don't need an illusion of choice (3 options with exactly the same line behind them) just to break up the dialogue into pieces. Just don't overdo it like at the trial in ME3. Don't make the character say entire monologues.

As for the fetch quests, every RPG has them. Witcher 1/2, Mass Effect 1/2/3, DA O/II or even BG I/II. So there is obviously no way to leave them out. The question is how do you want to get them? Do you want to talk to every NPC with a name just to see if they have a quest for you? (Like in BG)
Do you want to hear about it like in ME3? Or do you want to stumble upon it by scanning a planet or mineral / reading a note / talking with an NPC who doesn't explicitly give you the quest but does mention it?

I would rather have eavesdropping as long as the quest is meaningful, not just about getting some pants back... Eavesdropping made the world come to life in ME3, the citadel was full of people who were dicussing the war and recent events. That is what adds immersion, not false choices. At least for me.