585 réponses à ce sujet

[Emzamination]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

And what gives you the impression that leliana doesn't want to get married? She tells the hero that she wants to spend her life with them.

 you don't need to get married to do that, just saying

here's where you don't understand something about marriage in thedas or in medieval times, it wasn't always about love.  often, it wasn't about love at all, it was a contract for families.  i think people in thedas might be able to understand the concept of love and committment without the need to marry.

I know all about political unions and that is irrelevant to this argument.What you're suggesting is that because it happened among the nobility, every body should share that same mindset of loveless marriage.

[Wulfram]

They could do a marriage, sure.

I'd see it as more likely to be a before the big final battle "Oh crap we might die tomorrow, so let's get married now" thing, with just a priest and a few friends, rather than any great ceremony with cheering crowds and whatnot.

It wouldn't work for all romances, but it could work for some of them.

edit:  And you should probably make it a player initiated thing, since some people seem to be crazily against that sort of thing.

Modifié par Wulfram, 20 septembre 2012 - 04:56 .

[Xilizhra]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Probably not, not least because it wouldn't be legal for homosexual relationships in Thedas, leading to an inherent equality problem.

Who says?

The Chantry. Romantic marriage doesn't really exist on Thedas anyway; love is more of a convenient side benefit.

[Il Divo]

Emzamination wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

So you're asking to move closer to a dating simulator? I knew this already.

I'll make it straightforward for you:  I have no interest in Bioware games moving in the direction of increased romances.

And here I thought Dating simulators included and revolved around, you know... Dates.

Sure some do. But you might want to look a bit more into that link you presented:

"In a typical dating sim, the player controls a male avatar surrounded by female characters. The gameplay involves conversing with a selection of girls, attempting to increase their internal "love meter" through correct choices of dialogue.

Dating sims such as Tokimeki Memorial often revolve almost entirely around relationship-building, usually featuring complex character interactions and branching dialogue trees, and often presenting the player's possible responses word-for-word as the player character would say them. "

Elements of this already sound too close to Bioware games for comfort, particularly the use of dialogue trees and the variety of love interests. Not to mention:

"One game series that often includes dating, with the goal of marriage, is the farming sim series Harvest Moon. "

Hence my point, that marriage might be considered an element of a dating simulator. Either way you're really disputing semantics. So I won't call it a dating simulator. My argument still stands:

I find that Bioware games already place too much emphasis on romance and would prefer not to see additional resources devoted to this course of action. Does that sound better? 

Modifié par Il Divo, 20 septembre 2012 - 04:58 .

[upsettingshorts]

Xilizhra wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Probably not, not least because it wouldn't be legal for homosexual relationships in Thedas, leading to an inherent equality problem.

Who says?

The Chantry.

Source?

[Glebuych19941]

Edit: Post removed.

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 20 septembre 2012 - 05:13 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Emzamination wrote...

I know all about political unions and that is irrelevant to this argument.What you're suggesting is that because it happened among the nobility, every body should share that same mindset of loveless marriage.

It didn't happen among just nobility, it happened amongst the common folk as well.   It's not like the common folk were able to freely love one another and get married with no expectations while nobility married each other for
lands/money/titles/whatever.  They had to consider the financial status/livelihood of others.   Needless to say, if you decided to marry some peniless vagabond, you were probably screwing your family over.  It's not that different nowadays, either, though social expectations (in many western civiilzations anyway) are lower.

Or did you not pay attention at all in DA:O?  City elf was in an arranged marriage.  Or you can read the freaking wiki if you don't believe me.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 20 septembre 2012 - 05:00 .

[Emzamination]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...


They're a key aspect for marketing, but they amount to very little in-game. A poorly animated sex scene that last about 30 seconds isn't worth all the attention it's given. What you people are asking for already exists. It's called Fable. You can even get married online to other players.

I've bolded your personal opinion and it's a personal opionion because all the love struck starry eyed Fan girls making threads think quite the opposite of those statements.Why stop there? why don't we add dragons dogma and the witcher to the list of horrible repetitive unfeeling romances.I'd like to list the obvious issues with the whole player to player marriage thing but...obvious

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Just think. It could be day-1 DLC.

[Battlebloodmage]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Just think. It could be day-1 DLC.

Only if it's at least 500MB. I hate Day-1 DLC that is nothing more than a key to unlock hidden content in the game.

[thats1evildude]

I attended a wedding in DAO. It ended when a nobleman showed up and carried off my bride and my cousin for a rape party.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Emzamination wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...


They're a key aspect for marketing, but they amount to very little in-game. A poorly animated sex scene that last about 30 seconds isn't worth all the attention it's given. What you people are asking for already exists. It's called Fable. You can even get married online to other players.

I've bolded your personal opinion and it's a personal opionion because all the love struck starry eyed Fan girls making threads think quite the opposite of those statements.Why stop there? why don't we add dragons dogma and the witcher to the list of horrible repetitive unfeeling romances.I'd like to list the obvious issues with the whole player to player marriage thing but...obvious

That's great. Because nobody knew that was my personal opinion before you bolded it.

Fan girls making threads about marriage and babies disagree with the idea that I find their idea of including a interactive soap opera in Dragon Age to be ridiculous. Seems like you're already stating the obvious.

[Emzamination]

Il Divo wrote...



Sure some do.

No they all do, hence the name Dating sim.

But you might want to look a bit more into that link you presented:

"In a typical dating sim, the player controls a male avatar surrounded by female characters. The gameplay involves conversing with a selection of girls, attempting to increase their internal "love meter" through correct choices of dialogue.

Dating sims such as Tokimeki Memorial often revolve almost entirely around relationship-building, usually featuring complex character interactions and branching dialogue trees, and often presenting the player's possible responses word-for-word as the player character would say them. "

Elements of this already sound too close to Bioware games for comfort, particularly the use of dialogue trees and the variety of love interests. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought romances in bioware games were completely optional.The dialogue trees aren't romance exclusive, they Include romance unlike dating sims.Also Dialogue trees in and of themselves are not a aspect restricted to a certain genre.

"One game series that often includes dating, with the goal of marriage, is the farming sim series Harvest Moon. "

Hence my point, that marriage might be considered an element of a dating simulator. Either way you're really disputing semantics. So I won't call it a dating simulator. My argument still stands:

I find that Bioware games already place too much emphasis on romance and would prefer not to see additional resources devoted to this course of action. Does that sound better? 

Goal of marriage Is marriage a goal to complete any bioware game? Nah bruh, it's you who is arguing semantics, quite poorly I might add.You're looking for any similarities, not exclusive ones.

Modifié par Emzamination, 20 septembre 2012 - 05:22 .

[Xilizhra]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Probably not, not least because it wouldn't be legal for homosexual relationships in Thedas, leading to an inherent equality problem.

Who says?

The Chantry.

Source?

The wiki, from what I recall. Not that homosexual relationships are illegal, but they can't be married.

That said, I would enjoy more of a focus on romance in general, but marriage, less so.

[Maclimes]

Bioware should just license out to some other company to make a "super romance DLC pack spin-off". In this game, you import your save from DA3 (or whatever). It's a series of adventures, with just one companion, your LI, as you grow and bond and whatever, culminating in a choice of marriage, lifelong lovers, or whatever is reasonable to include.

Boom. Bioware invests no resources in this, so we don't have to worry about the loss of other content. Both companies make money. Only those who are interested have to buy/play it.

Also, it would serve as a nice experiment. If it sold VERY well, then Bioware may consider enhancing the level of romance in later games. It it does VERY poorly, they may scale it back to make room for other features.

Either way, money changes hands, the game improves, and the community benefits.

[Emzamination]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I know all about political unions and that is irrelevant to this argument.What you're suggesting is that because it happened among the nobility, every body should share that same mindset of loveless marriage.

It didn't happen among just nobility, it happened amongst the common folk as well.   It's not like the common folk were able to freely love one another and get married with no expectations while nobility married each other for
lands/money/titles/whatever.  They had to consider the financial status/livelihood of others.   Needless to say, if you decided to marry some peniless vagabond, you were probably screwing your family over.  It's not that different nowadays, either, though social expectations (in many western civiilzations anyway) are lower.

Or did you not pay attention at all in DA:O?  City elf was in an arranged marriage.  Or you can read the freaking wiki if you don't believe me.

It happened very rarely among the peasants because the only dowry the peasants had to offer each other was poverty.The whole system revolved around Dowrys, titles, land and increasing ones reputation in society by marrying into a higher class family.It was not a common thing that everyone was doing.The city elf origin is not a relevant argument regarding real world historical fact.In fact the elves only marry as they do because their race is ostrasized and dying out.

Modifié par Emzamination, 20 septembre 2012 - 05:21 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Xilizhra wrote...

The wiki, from what I recall. Not that homosexual relationships are illegal, but they can't be married.

That said, I would enjoy more of a focus on romance in general, but marriage, less so.

From the Wiki:

The Chantry data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D
According to the Chant of Light, Andraste
had a spiritual marriage with the Maker. All Andrastian priests are
therefore symbolically wedded to the Maker and sworn to celibacy. In the
eyes of the Chantry, marriage is both a celebration of tradition and a
practical decision. Through a favorable marriage, one can make valuable
connections, improve one's social standing, and secure financial
stability for oneself and one's family. Love is not necessary for a
successful marriage but is nonetheless desirable, as it makes the union
stronger. The Chantry permits annulments but not outright divorce.

Same-gender relationships data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D
Same-sex relations are generally considered odd but not immoral in Ferelden.
Orlesians regard homosexuality as a mere quirk of character, and the
Antivan Crows show a winking tolerance for (if not encouragement of)
relations with multiple partners of either sex. There is pressure in
certain circles, such as the elves and the human nobility, to marry an
opposite-gendered partner, but this is motivated by pragmatism rather
than morality; a homosexual couple cannot have biological children. For a
dying race like the elves, it is vital that every fertile individual
produce offspring.

The Chantry has no law that dictates that people of the same gender cannot be married.  However, since marriage in Thedas is viewed as being more of a pragmatic decision, many people may question the need for two people of the same sex to be married since they cannot produce heirs. 

That is literally it.  There is no descrimination to speak of in Thedas when it comes to marriage.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 20 septembre 2012 - 05:20 .

[Emzamination]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...


They're a key aspect for marketing, but they amount to very little in-game. A poorly animated sex scene that last about 30 seconds isn't worth all the attention it's given. What you people are asking for already exists. It's called Fable. You can even get married online to other players.

I've bolded your personal opinion and it's a personal opionion because all the love struck starry eyed Fan girls making threads think quite the opposite of those statements.Why stop there? why don't we add dragons dogma and the witcher to the list of horrible repetitive unfeeling romances.I'd like to list the obvious issues with the whole player to player marriage thing but...obvious

That's great. Because nobody knew that was my personal opinion before you bolded it.

Fan girls making threads about marriage and babies disagree with the idea that I find their idea of including a interactive soap opera in Dragon Age to be ridiculous. Seems like you're already stating the obvious.

Which brings us right back to their right (seen the sub-forums dedicated to romance?) and yours (where are the sub-forums for hating on romance?), Seems your the odd duckling out of place here, Boot :innocent:

[Rinji the Bearded]

Emzamination wrote...

It happened very rarely among the peasants because the only dowry the peasants had to offer each other was poverty.The whole system revolved around Dowrys, titles, land and increasing ones reputation in society by marrying into a higher class family.It was not a common thing that everyone was doing.The city elf origin is not a relevant argument regarding real world historical fact.In fact the elves only marry as they do because their raise is ostrasized and dying out.

You still don't get it

People in Thedas don't need marriage to symbolize their commitment.  Marriage being for love only is a very recent development in our real life history.  Social expectations and morality in Thedas is completely and utterly different.

[Melca36]

I like my game romances but I have  NO INTEREST in the developers wasting resources for weddings.

If I want that I'll play Skyrim or The Sims.

[upsettingshorts]

Emzamination wrote...

It happened very rarely among the peasants because the only dowry the peasants had to offer each other was poverty.The whole system revolved around Dowrys, titles, land and increasing ones reputation in society by marrying into a higher class family.It was not a common thing that everyone was doing.

Your history is dead wrong.

The peasants of the European Middle Ages were 99% Catholic Christians.  Sexual relationships outside of marriage were a sin against God.  This was an era when everyone, especially the peasants, took the concept of sin very seriously.  

/historian

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 septembre 2012 - 05:26 .

[Melca36]

Tasmen wrote...

Uinen03 wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Weddings? No thanks. I'm sure resources could be spend on more important things.

I +1 this.  I would rather have less emphasis on romances and more attention on the actual gameplay and combat mechanics.  The only way I would support a wedding is if my spouse opened up a shop and gave me money or made me food (like in Skyrim).  Weddings and babies would be quite a story breaker for me.  In a time of war and great peril, I think there are more important matters to attend to... At least, that's how my character would think. 

Yep yep.  Totally agree.  Beside the fact that ooooh in DAO the Warden sort has an oven with no pilot light (if lady) or dead yeast (if a dude).  I've always found the idea of babies in DAO ridiculous.  Taint ain't taint for no reason, y'all.

Thank you!  The Love Interests are fine the way they are.  Marriage in the game would be riduculous and a waste of resources.

[Yevetha]

I'd rather not see a PC marriage. Now that said, if we were to arrange a marriage for peace or something, that'd be interesting.

I feel most BioWare romances already have more deapth than Skyrim and Fable 'romances' combined.

Now, I think BW could do it and make it really cool, and if they did I would enjoy it. (probably) But marriages and kids are not something I'd ask for or really want. Many other things I'd prefer.

I'm not really sure how to express it, but wih how our PC often behaves (most characters being interested in our PC) and just how the world is built, marriage just doesn't feel right.

[Maclimes]

Melca36 wrote...

I like my game romances but I have  NO INTEREST in the developers wasting resources for weddings.

If I want that I'll play Skyrim or The Sims.

Skyrim's romances were the BEST.

"I see you are wearing a necklace. Although we have never had more than a 10-second conversation (and that one was about mammoth tusks), I think we should be married. Meet me there?"

And as you say "I do", your new spouse LITERALLY bursts from the room and vanishes into the night before you can even speak a word to them.

I'm not saying I want big crazy marriages and horrendously complex courting sub-games or anything, but if you're going to include romance, at least make it ... I dunno ... romantic.